Republic of Ireland vs España

martingriff

born2bwild wrote: »

If we had academies attached to LoI teams, which in turn, were part of countrywide push to involve schools in the way that the GAA is embedded we'd have more and better players being developed.

If those LoI teams were supported better (I'm talking about at least a 300% increase in the numbers of people willing to hand over 15 euros a week to get in) they'd hold on to more, better players longer.

This would have knock-on effects: LoI teams getting in to the Champions League Group stages; Premiership clubs having to hand over much larger transfer fees to get the likes of McClean, Doyle, Coleman, Hoolahan; and finally, the international squad benefiting from the improved structures and talent.

I don't have all the answers but start with something really crude: 10,000 of the 20,000 people in Gdansk spent 200 each on LoI season tickets it would make a positive difference.

Still does not answer my question how would this change the Irish National Team. See my Brazil players not playing in Brazil example

I agree with you about trying to have a better LOI but its not all about the fans the FAI and the teams have to go and promote and show how they play and not be in the news every year about not paying players going bankrupt and the like. Its not all the fans

Spread

Perfect Choice wrote: »

I was at the game earlier myself.

Keith Andrews and Robbie Keane both worked there socks off. Spain where simply too good for us.

They showed us how to play the game tonight, but by god we showed them how to support your team.

Anyway I'm off to bed, feeling a bit numb after that one.

Congrats Perfect Choice! I agree. But the Daily Mail (below) begs to differ:


Polish medics examine Irishman found asleep and sober in hotel bedroom. Polish Tourist Industry spokesman Tootal Abstinenceski Pyneer was quoted as saying that this could be very bad for tourism.

jiltloop

Yet again the massive chip on the shoulders of LOI fans rears it's ugly head. The Irish fans on the international stage tonight were great ambassadors for their country. LOI fans on the other hand do nothing piss and moan cos we don't have an interest in their corrupt badly organised shambles of a league. Obviously if you have no interest in LOI you're not a real fan of football! :rolleyes:

LOI fans think they're the biggest matyrs and that you should only enjoy football if you qualified yourself to enjoy it by supporting some crap team on windy wet terraces with a couple of dozen fellow hardcore supporters with equally large chips on their shoulders.

Apparently you're not allowed to just like watching good football, you have to watch crap domestic football first otherwise you're just a fake. :rolleyes:

P.S no offence meant to LOI fans who don't have that chip on their shoulder.

born2bwild

RoryMac wrote: »

It says a lot to me that most of the more vocal LoI supporters here are online complaining about praise for our fans rather than supporting our team.

Yes it would be nice if more fans attended LoI games but the guys over there have done their country proud sticking by their team when things were tough. They have been praised by media in several countries and have been one of the few positive things to come from this tournament from an Irish pov.

It's these kind of positive stories that encourage kids to play the game and in turn play LoI football, can we not just enjoy the ride?

Good post - particularly your last point about the encouraging kids to go to matches here.

Still I can't help but wonder how good it would be if even a fraction of the tens of thousands of Irish fans in Gdnask tonight who don't normally support their domestic league were to decide that they were going to start watching live football in their own country.

MisterAnarchy

We were never realistically going to get anything out of tonights match .
It was the equivalent of a Barcelona+Real Madrid selection vs a basement EPL X1.
It took the billions of Abramovich and a huge amount of luck to stop Barcelona a few months ago,we never had a chance.

Saying that though Trapatoni's team selection was poor.
Why play 2 wingers against a team when you know that you will have hardly any possession ??
Why play a forward in midfield ?
Why play Ward at left back after his calamitous displays ?
Why bring on Paul Green ?

McGeady and Ward both should have been dropped ,an extra central midfielder should have been employed and the pacey Long should have started up front.

This team used up all its luck in the qualifying stage and luck deserted them.
Ireland were played off the park in Moscow,at home to Russia and Slovakia and were very fortunate to get a 1-0 win in Armenia .
It was an over achievement to qualify if the truth be told.

While the tactics employed by Trapatonis are basic ,the players form and fitness was disappointing.
Most of the goals conceded were down to poor defending and given away at appalling stages of the matches .

Given is obviously not 100% fit and unfortunately he has had a poor tournament.
Likewise for Richard Dunne ,who isnt match fit ,understandably due to his long lay off.
He seemed to use up all his luck in the 0-0 in Moscow.
John O'Shea is only a shadow of himself since his serious leg injury against France in late 2009.
He is poor on the ball ,rarely gets forward and isnt really suited to right back.
As for Ward at left back,he has been an utter disaster ,I'm sure the Croatians and Spanish ear marked his wing to exploit.
He was at fault for at least 3 goals .
He isnt a relation to an international full back.

Duff worked his socks off and put in a good shift but he is getting old in the tooth .
Andrews is a hard worker,limited on the ball but he didnt get much support from Whelan though .
Whelan is a poor midfielder,an ultra negative passer,slow ,has a poor first touch and is too limited to play in a 4 man midfield.
Mc Geady yet again failed to deliver,he is a one trick pony and poor in defence.

The front men didnt get much service ,they had to survive on scraps .

Our fans have done us proud .
I always thought Ireland would do well to take 1 point from the 3 matches ,the challenge was a huge one .
I'd like to see Ireland try to play possession football in the World Cup qualifying phase but I dont see Trapatoni changing his ways.
He has always been an ultra cautious manager .The end justifies the means .

I dont know if we have the players good enough to play a passing gamer but you never know unless you try .

@Marty_Morrissey

LOL

Marty Morrissey ‏@Marty_Morrissey

860 passes for Spain tonight. Ireland could only manage dat if we put Jason McAteer on Mastermind

SomethingElse

Pretty appauling performance at these championships. Trap's system is clearly not good enough. For a man of his experience he makes a lot of errors, errors that even most of the posters on this forum can spot in advance. Where we go from here is anybodys guess

carbon nanotube

Colonialboy wrote: »

That makes 4 million. sure it will make a difference it will pay for
John Delaneys wages and expenses for 5 years and cover his pension entitlements . and im not joking here either.

Look at Shamrock Rovers the crowds come when you bring some success and up your game. Even back to Cork City V Bayern munich in the 80s when we nearly beat them after Dave Barry hit the cross bar.

The players are there, the fans are ready and waiting , but the organisation from FAI thru to the LOI clubs is the joke.

ahh, them were the days. 'twas the 90s i think they played munich

Cork City gave Everton a good run for their money in musgrave park in 1990 too, even if they lost 4:0

born2bwild

martingriff wrote: »

Still does not answer my question how would this change the Irish National Team. See my Brazil players not playing in Brazil example

I agree with you about trying to have a better LOI but its not all about the fans the FAI and the teams have to go and promote and show how they play and not be in the news every year about not paying players going bankrupt and the like. Its not all the fans

I agree: it's not all about the fans. But what is a league without a fan base?

I thought I had answered the question about how the International team would benefit from an improved domestic league.

Can you see how more, better players, coming out of a countrywide system integrated with schools and LoI clubs would benefit the international team?

Helix

jiltloop wrote: »

Obviously if you have no interest in LOI you're not a real fan of football!

no, its more that if you dont support your own domestic league you're not, and i quote, "the best fans in the world"

tdv123

martingriff wrote: »

Still does not answer my question how would this change the Irish National Team. See my Brazil players not playing in Brazil example

I agree with you about trying to have a better LOI but its not all about the fans the FAI and the teams have to go and promote and show how they play and not be in the news every year about not paying players going bankrupt and the like. Its not all the fans

Well the Brazilian national team has really started going down hill in the last decade or so.

Some good players like Neymar & Ganso are coming through, but there nothing like the generation before them.

Augmerson

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Putting on Paul Green was really taking the piss

Unforgivable

I really like Crowded House.

Colonialboy

low lie the fields of Athenry
ole ole ole ole
you'll never beat the irish

I hope the craics good in Gdansk, im going to check on the kids in bed in their ireland jerseys before i tuck in myself.
im gutted and even though i give em stick, im still proud of the team, manager and especially the fans.
good night all.

Spread

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL

Oi!

plasmaguy

I'd love to know how an alternative Irish 11 to what started tonight would in any way do any better. They wouldn't, that's clear.

As I said a midfield with McClean, Ireland/McCarthy, Andrews and Coleman wouldn't do any better.

Professional Griefer

Was raging that I was gonna miss the match through work, doesn't seem so bad now. Catch the highlights on rte later. Ah well.

Renn

Colonialboy wrote: »

I hope the craics good in Gdansk, im going to check on the kids in bed in their ireland jerseys before i tuck in myself.
.

jiltloop

Helix wrote: »

no, its more that if you dont support your own domestic league you're not, and i quote, "the best fans in the world"

Who purports to be the best fans in the world? I don't know anyone who has called themselves the best fan in the world. It was actually alot of international football people who called the Irish the best fans in the world tonight after their showing. It's an opinion from an outside persepctive. You LOI fans can be the best fans in the world if you want, most people don't care. You don't have to be the best fan in the world to love football and LOI shouldn't have a perpetual chip on their shoulder because it ain't a competition mate! You win by defaullt! Go home and celebrate, you won!

applehunter

That was embarrassing.

martingriff

born2bwild wrote: »

I agree: it's not all about the fans. But what is a league without a fan base?

I thought I had answered the question about how the International team would benefit from an improved domestic league.

Can you see how more, better players, coming out of a countrywide system integrated with schools and LoI clubs would benefit the international team?

If those players are not good enough they be playing in the EPL or Spain or Italy. So no don't see how it would.

You are correct about a league with fan bases but its not like if you build it they will come. Hard work is needed

Helix

jiltloop wrote: »

Who purports to be the best fans in the world? I don't know anyone who has called themselves the best fan in the world.

have a read through the thread, it's been claimed multiple times throughout it that they're the "best fans in the world"

Will I Amnt

plasmaguy wrote: »

I'd love to know how an alternative Irish 11 to what started tonight would in any way do any better. They wouldn't, that's clear.

As I said a midfield with McClean, Ireland/McCarthy, Andrews and Coleman wouldn't do any better.

How many more times do we have to hear this from you?

I'm proud. Goodnight.

RoryMac

CSF wrote: »

Sorry what, nearly all of the abuse levelled at the team has been from the other camp (the dark side). There have been few more supportive of the team in this thread than myself

The dark side??

What are you on about?

Most football fans i know grew up supporting their club be it home or abroad, they support the national team and see guys living their dream, there is only one side!

Of course it would be great if more followed their local teams but such is life, some of the attitudes on here are not going to persuade people.

stovelid

jiltloop wrote: »

Apparently you're not allowed to just like watching good football,.

You support Ireland.

plasmaguy

applehunter wrote: »

That was embarrassing.

Realistically it was never going to be anything but.

This Spanish team in my view is the best ever International team.

The Irish team on the other hand is comprised of mostly bottom half of the EPL players.

We were never ever ever going to match the Spanish so any grounds for optimism was pointless.

It really wouldn't have mattered who the manager was and if he had Ireland, Mclean, Coleman and so on in the team.

A Jose Mourinho lead Real Madrid side for example were hockied 5-0 by a not dissimiliar side to the Spanish one tonight. And Coleman and McLean are nowhere near Real Madrid standard.

karma_

Trap deserves a lot of the criticism coming his way tonight. The reality is that this was always going to be a group that we were going to find it difficult to come out of and the squad should have been more experimental going into this tournament. We are now out of the competition and of the 23 man squad selected, only what is it, 14 have played some kind of part. Trap had a fantastic opportunity to get some younger players into that squad and could have given them some experience after we went 2 down tonight and then had a full game to experiment further, as it stands he has little option but to keep things more or less as they are.

I would also question his substitutions tonight, not a single movement from the bench while we were 2 (other than the Cox swap at HT) down with a team that thus far had showed nothing of going forward and allowed us to go 3 down before he considered another change, far far too late.

Francie Barrett

plasmaguy wrote: »

As I said a midfield with McClean, Ireland/McCarthy, Andrews and Coleman wouldn't do any better.

Of course it would :rolleyes:

Duff - Gibson - McCarthy - McClean

---

Hoolahan

Spread

Spread wrote: »

Oi!

Sorry Jayo

ColeTrain

applehunter wrote: »

That was embarrassing.

Getting beat off the European and World champions is embarrassing now? Hardly. I really don't know what people were expecting. Our display in Moscow and Chelsea's miracle against Barcelona seems to have changed peoples expectations..

Where To

martingriff wrote: »

Still does not answer my question how would this change the Irish National Team. See my Brazil players not playing in Brazil example

I agree with you about trying to have a better LOI but its not all about the fans the FAI and the teams have to go and promote and show how they play and not be in the news every year about not paying players going bankrupt and the like. Its not all the fans

That's bollocks.

Although it's only a few weeks old six of the top ten goalscorers in Serie A have played for a top level club in Europe.

plasmaguy

plasmaguy wrote: »

I'd love to know how an alternative Irish 11 to what started tonight would in any way do any better. They wouldn't, that's clear.

As I said a midfield with McClean, Ireland/McCarthy, Andrews and Coleman wouldn't do any better.

Bull. No excuse to pick sub standard players. Is Paul Green better than any of those you listed? or Stephen Hunt? Or McGeady? or McShane?

G.K.

plasmaguy wrote: »

There wasn't much shocking about tonight.

Take McClean for example, he came on did some good stuff, but lost the ball a lot too. If he played 90 minutes it really would have been the same. Would have been the same for Coleman. Coleman and McLean are good players but they really aren't fit to lace Xavi and Iniesta's boots, even you have to admit that.

Where did I say anything to the contrary?

Let me reiterate.

Just because Spain have the better players doesn't mean you should sit back and accept the decisions if they are clearly wrong.

I'm talking about things like:

• Constantly keeping in his squads the likes of Green, McShane, Whelan, players who aren't in good form, who aren't that good, who are getting on, and can't keep the ball.
• Not integrating into the squad, before the tournament, players who are both better and in form, like Hoolahan, Wilson, Clark, Pilkington & Ireland (Yes, Ireland). I'd also put McClean and McCarthy in this bracket.
• Taking off Doyle and Cox despite them being among Ireland's top performers in the respective games.
• Putting Cox on on the left wing vs Croatia in front of McClean and Hunt.
• The pathetic treatment of Kevin Foley.
• Not playing Long & Gibson, 2 of Ireland's best players, at the Euros in games that counted.

Don't get me wrong, these things, done correctly, probably wouldn't have got Ireland past such a tough group. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have been done correctly.

Of course this is my opinion, but to me, at least, Trap defied logic with these things.

ColeTrain

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Of course it would :rolleyes:

Duff - Gibson - McCarthy - McClean

---

Hoolahan

Let's not pretend that the above team would have done any better. They would still have been outclassed.

jiltloop

Helix wrote: »

have a read through the thread, it's been claimed multiple times throughout it that they're the "best fans in the world"

Read the title of the thread, this is a thread about an international match not about the LOI. The Irish were probably the best supporters so far at the Euros and when they're at the World Cup the have the same rep. Do you want Fabrice Muambe to add a P.S to his tweet saying " Fair play to the Irish fans, best fans ever.... P.S sorry, except for the LOI fans"? We're talking international football. Irish fans are probably the best at supporting their international team, that's what is being said on this thread, LOI shouldn't even be mentioned cos it has no relevance here.

RoryMac

born2bwild wrote: »

Good post - particularly your last point about the encouraging kids to go to matches here.

Still I can't help but wonder how good it would be if even a fraction of the tens of thousands of Irish fans in Gdnask tonight who don't normally support their domestic league were to decide that they were going to start watching live football in their own country.

i'd love to see that too but for most on here debating the game that ship has sailed, we need to ensure that football has as high a profile as possible so that more kids play the game. The bigger pool there is the better the quality

Renn

How many teams in the Euro finals have had two players on the pitch at the same time who don't have any clubs at the moment (Andrews and Green)?

born2bwild

martingriff wrote: »

If those players are not good enough they be playing in the EPL or Spain or Italy. So no don't see how it would.

You are correct about a league with fan bases but its not like if you build it they will come. Hard work is needed

I agree with you: the best leagues are in England and Spain. We're not likely to surpass them anytime soon.

We can, however, close the gap:

My argument is that if we have a stronger domestic league integrated with schools via football academies we can make more Irish players, better Irish players, and keep those players in this country for longer.

That should improve our international team.

It can be done but it can't be done without more Irish people wanting it.

plasmaguy

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Of course it would :rolleyes:

Duff - Gibson - McCarthy - McClean

---

Hoolahan

Fulham-Everton-Wigan-Sunderland

---

Norwich

Vs

Barcelona-Barcelona-Real Madrid-Barcelona

---

Man City

Think you need to be realistic.

Helix

jiltloop wrote: »

LOI shouldn't even be mentioned cos it has no relevance here.

disband the LOI and see how relevant it becomes to the irish national team...

thatsnotmyname

ColeTrain wrote: »

Let's not pretend that the above team would have done any better. They would still have been outclassed.

I agree
Spain are a different class
sad but true

fullstop

G.K. wrote: »

Where did I say anything to the contrary?

Let me reiterate.

Just because Spain have the better players doesn't mean you should sit back and accept the decisions if they are clearly wrong.

I'm talking about things like:

• Constantly keeping in his squads the likes of Green, McShane, Whelan, players who aren't in good form, who aren't that good, who are getting on, and can't keep the ball.
• Not integrating into the squad, before the tournament, players who are both better and in form, like Hoolahan, Wilson, Clark, Pilkington & Ireland (Yes, Ireland). I'd also put McClean and McCarthy in this bracket.
• Taking off Doyle and Cox despite them being among Ireland's top performers in the respective games.
• Putting Cox on on the left wing vs Croatia in front of McClean and Hunt.
• The pathetic treatment of Kevin Foley.
• Not playing Long & Gibson, 2 of Ireland's best players, at the Euros in games that counted.

Don't get me wrong, these things, done correctly, probably wouldn't have got Ireland past such a tough group. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have been done correctly.

Of course, this is my opinion, but to me, at least, Trap defied logic with these things.

Not bringing Wilson, in particular IMO was a massive mistake. He's a solid defender playing at LB with a decent Premier League team. Ward is a converted striker playing for a relegated team who conceded shed-loads of goals last season.

Francie Barrett

ColeTrain wrote: »

Let's not pretend that the above team would have done any better. They would still have been outclassed.

I would have still expected them to be beaten, but we wouldn't have played like a complete pub team.

supersean1999

any manager who thinks paul green is better than gibson, coleman, and many more has lost reality with modern football, the most annoying thing is WE never even gave it a go

BeanFlicker

Let's not pretend, we got creamed unfortunately..!

Honestly I would love to see Mic Mac back, don't know about yee

Helix

BeanFlicker wrote: »

Let's not pretend, we got creamed unfortunately..!

Honestly I would love to see Mic Mac back, don't know about yee

best manager ireland have ever had anyway

fullstop

Helix wrote: »

disband the LOI and see how relevant it becomes to the irish national team...

Exactly, there wouldn't be a national team.

chopser

handsomecake wrote: »

lets see how many of these honourable irish heroic fans are in the aviva for a game against andorra or the like. only there for the big day out and the piss up.

The ticket prices at Aviva are way too expensive. When you factor in tickets and travel and entertainment to Aviva * we are not all from Dublin , it is often not much more than short weekend away on cheap city break (football or otherwise) . Hence the rush to cheaper Poland.
Don't diss fans on their refusal to pay 35e and up to watch Ireland play 4-4-2 unchanged and boring with no young payers getting an introduction.

You can be a devoted Irish fan and watch the match on the television.

Francie Barrett

plasmaguy wrote: »

Fulham-Everton-Wigan-Sunderland

---

Norwich

Vs

Barcelona-Barcelona-Real Madrid-Barcelona

---

Man City

Think you need to be realistic.

:rolleyes:

Much better to have

Unattached (Andrews) - Unattached (Green) in our central midfield pairing :pac:

kitakyushu

BeanFlicker wrote: »

Let's not pretend, we got creamed unfortunately..!

Honestly I would love to see Mic Mac back, don't know about yee

In a second.