Republic of Ireland vs España

closeline

Thought McGeady was poor again tonight.

Whelan looks like a player wearing three quarter length pants and someone is pulling him back all the time.

SomethingElse

ColeTrain wrote: »

I expected it. I'm not sure what you were expecting?

In footbal David usually doesn't slay Goliath.

I was expecting us to lose, but not to be completely destroyed like that. Any of the so called 'minnows' of European football wouldn't have done much worse against the Spanish tonight

djpbarry

plasmaguy wrote: »

Is this even worth replying to? Probably not!

For the last four years, Trap has drummed it into the squad they are pathologically incapable of passing a football, are hopelessly inferior to every side they face and the only rational course of action is to sit on the edge of their own penalty area and hope for the best.

Now, this somehow worked in the qualifiers because pretty much every bounce of the ball seemed to go Ireland's way - how we emerged from Moscow with a draw is one of the great mysteries of the universe.

What we are witnessing now is Trap's luck running out. That and the fact that teams have learned exactly how to hurt us because we are so incredibly one dimensional.

We can harp on about how amazing Spain are (and don't get me wrong, they are probably the best team I've ever witnessed), but they are not invincible, as Italy showed. As Roy Keane said (and I hate to agree with Roy) Ireland were beaten before they even set foot on the pitch. That's just not good enough.

Ultimately, Trap has to accept responsibility.

wonderfullife

G.K. wrote: »

Where did I say they wouldn't?

But picking inferior, out of form players has no justification and makes no sense.

true but we are not the only nation guilty of it either - Aaron Lennon was in decent form, Downing abysmal all year. Opinions aside if we are talking just form i'd argue: Lennon > Downing, Rio > Jones, Richards > Johnson, Holt > Defoe, every nation has this debate. At the end of the day it's up to 1 man to decide and that's the coach and we are all well within rights to say he's got it wrong.

RoryMac

ricero wrote: »

RoryMac wrote: »

If you think Ireland failing to beat some of the best countries in the world and the Ireland fans being praised throughout Europe is a disgrace i'd love to hear your expectations coming into the tournament?

i did not expect my team to concede in each game after 3 minutes in each half, i expected a better defensive performance from Ireland throughout the tournament

None of us expected that, I wouldn't call it a disgrace though.

And I doubt even the St. John Terry would class our fans as a disgrace like you do

ColeTrain

ricero wrote: »

i did not expect my team to concede in each game after 3 minutes in each half, i expected a better defensive performance from Ireland throughout the tournament

Everyone bought into us as some defensive machine. We played Russia and they could have 10 taken off us in the two games. Where was the other real competitive test?

If you look at each player individually.

Given was not fully fit but a good keeper.

Dunne is erratic at club level but does turn in big performances for Ireland.

St.Ledger is a Championship player.

O'Shea isn't the best full back in the world. He's been a utility player for most of his career.

Ward got relegated in a poor Wolves team. He is decent at best.

Now that's not a defense that I'd have any confidence in against Spain or any decent International team.

At least we have Clarke, Colman and few others coming through. They should play in the WC qualifying, along with McCarthy and McClean. I'd like to see Trap organise a team with our young players in it because a lot of players in this squad are going nowhere on the big stage.

Renn

RoryMac wrote: »

None of us expected that, I wouldn't call it a disgrace though.

I expected it.

steelcityblues

closeline wrote: »

Thought McGeady was poor again tonight.

Whelan looks like a player wearing three quarter length pants and someone is pulling him back all the time.

Genuine contender for worst player of the championship. He is even not much of a fan favourite with most Stoke fans.

wonderfullife

hate to say it as im a big fan but Robbie Keane contributed close to zero over the 2 games. Didnt hold the ball, didnt pass it well, didnt beat a man, didnt really even drop into midfield to influence the game. I'd go as far to say we carried him to an extent.

ColeTrain

SomethingElse wrote: »

I was expecting us to lose, but not to be completely destroyed like that. Any of the so called 'minnows' of European football wouldn't have done much worse against the Spanish tonight

Destroyed, as in Spain having the most of the ball and creating plenty of chances? Yeah a lot of people were expecting that.

Renn

ColeTrain wrote: »

I'd like to see Trap organise a team with our young players in it because a lot of players in this squad are going nowhere on the big stage.

I wouldn't because I'd be afraid that he'd do the exact same to a new set of players. Has a history of it, that's for sure.

djpbarry

plasmaguy wrote: »

All the Irish players tried hard tonight in fairness, but they are just limited technically, it's not their fault, nor is it the fault of the manager. It's just a situation he has inherited.

Absolute and utter bollocks. That team is composed almost entirely of Premiership regulars and you’re telling me that was an acceptable level of performance? If you witnessed those goals on Match of the Day, you wouldn’t think “Blimey, that’s some poor defending, that is”.

plasmaguy wrote: »

Trap has brought a limited group of players a long way...

No, he’s brought a decent group of players (let’s not pretend we don’t have good players) past a poor Slovakia side, Armenia (both of whom should have beaten us in Dublin) and Estonia. The real tests have shown him up – he’s past it.

plasmaguy wrote: »

If Trap goes, I don't see us qualifying for another major tournament for another ten years...

I honestly don’t care if we actually play decent football. I mean that. Showing up to a major tournament and producing what we produced tonight is embarrassing.

plasmaguy wrote: »

...as there is an awful lot of sh*te managers hovering around out there, one of who would get the job.

Bring back Brian Kerr. Or Mick – he’s available again. Or the two of them – Kerr as McCarthy’s assistant.

RoryMac wrote: »

If you think Ireland failing to beat some of the best countries in the world and the Ireland fans being praised throughout Europe is a disgrace i'd love to hear your expectations coming into the tournament?

Unbeaten in fourteen games. Eleven clean sheets. Defensively solid. Difficult to beat.

Remember all that?

Tellox

To anyone who got here late, here's what you've missed on this thread;

• People currently experiencing a mix of anger/denial/depression over losing to spain.
• People unaware that Spain are an unbelievably good side
• People unaware that Ireland is to Euro 2012, what Saudi Arabia was to Korea 2002
• People thinking it's Trap's fault that Ireland hasn't produced a good player in the last two decades
• People crying foul because people are commenting on the Irish side, yet do not support a League of Ireland team
• People unaware that the League of Ireland is poorly supported because it's depressing to watch
• People unaware that the League of Ireland is poorly supported because it's depressing to watch (this isn't a double post, I just thought it merited two separate points)
• People blaming the only half decent player we still have in Given
• People shouting about who should never be allowed to wear the Irish Jersey again - as if we have an inventory to replace them.

Welcome to Boards.ie Soccer! Enjoy your stay. We look forward to seeing you for the Italy match.

kryogen

Whelan has had a dreadful season, how he makes it to the Ireland starting 11 each and every time is baffling.

ColeTrain

Renn wrote: »

I wouldn't because I'd be afraid that he'd do the exact same to a new set of players. Has a history of it, that's for sure.

I agree but he will be managing us for the next campaign.

plasmaguy

djpbarry wrote: »

Bring back Brian Kerr. Or Mick – he’s available again. Or the two of them – Kerr as McCarthy’s assistant.
?

When I read stuff like this, I really really wish I could put mods on ignore!!

karma_

kryogen wrote: »

Someone like McGeady, honestly to me, and this may be not popular should never wear the jersey again, he has no heart and that is unforgivable to me, that is the minimum requirement to wearing the jersey for me. You at least have to have heart.

Ah I could rant all night /

You're dead wrong about McGeady. Tonight he was one of our better performers and was helping defend as well as he can. It's no fault of his own that he is viewed negatively by some Irish fans, it hardly helps a tricky attacking winger that most of his running is back toward his own penalty box and if we could actually manage to get a teammate to pass a ball within 8 yards to him we would be singing his praises, as he could get more opportunity to bomb forward. I thought he played well tonight, arguably the best Irish player out there and at least he managed to provide a couple of decent crosses into the box, that's two created opportunities more than most of the rest of the team combined.

RoryMac

Renn wrote: »

I expected it.

Good for you

kryogen

Tellox wrote: »

To anyone who got here late, here's what you've missed on this thread;

• People currently experiencing a mix of anger/denial/depression over losing to spain. yep
• People unaware that Spain are an unbelievably good side no
• People unaware that Ireland is to Euro 2012, what Saudi Arabia was to Korea 2002 maybe
• People thinking it's Trap's fault that Ireland hasn't produced a good player in the last two decades no
• People crying foul because people are commenting on the Irish side, yet do not support a League of Ireland team lol
• People unaware that the League of Ireland is poorly supported because it's depressing to watch not true
• People unaware that the League of Ireland is poorly supported because it's depressing to watch (this isn't a double post, I just thought it merited two separate points) still not true
• People blaming the only half decent player we still have in Given when a keeper makes mistakes he is allowed to be criticised.
• People shouting about who should never be allowed to wear the Irish Jersey again - as if we have an inventory to replace them. we do have better players

Welcome to Boards.ie Soccer! Enjoy your stay. We look forward to seeing you for the Italy match.

Overall you fail at taking minutes.

steelcityblues

kryogen wrote: »

Whelan has had a dreadful season, how he makes it to the Ireland starting 11 each and every time is baffling.

Because our manager does not keep up to date with the Premiership. This has been well documented.

kryogen

karma_ wrote: »

You're dead wrong about McGeady. Tonight he was one of our better performers and was helping defend as well as he can. It's no fault of his own that he is viewed negatively by some Irish fans, it hardly helps a tricky attacking winger that most of his running is back toward his own penalty box and if we could actually manage to get a teammate to pass a ball within 8 yards to him we would be singing his praises, as he could get more opportunity to bomb forward. I thought he played well tonight, arguably the best Irish player out there and at least he managed to provide a couple of decent crosses into the box, that's two created opportunities more than most of the rest of the team combined.

It could be his lapses that stuck with me, allowing Pique to run on to the ball when he should have had it, the third goal etc.

Not being critical of his final ball, sure we all know that useless, expect nothing more there!

Renn

RoryMac wrote: »

Good for you

Well I'm just saying Everything leading up to the tournament suggested that Ireland were going to concede quite a few goals - they let far too many shots in on goal (and inside the box too) vs weaker opposition so it was only a matter of time before a good side took advantage of some sloppy defending. They're not a strong unit at the back and this whole 'system' rubbish is just that - rubbish.

fryup

karma_ wrote: »

You're dead wrong about McGeady. Tonight he was one of our better performers and was helping defend as well as he can.

are you on drugs???

rebeve

In relation to the LOI .The question I have is ,why would you travel half ways
around the world to watch rubbish .Then not travel 5 miles to watch LOI.

ColeTrain

fryup wrote: »

are you on drugs???

Can you tell us why he was poor then instead of making a remark like that?

Jimmy Iovine

G.K. wrote: »

The inferior players I meant were Ward, Whelan, Green, McShane.

To a lesser extent O'Dea, Hunt.

Try having O'Dea in your Fantasy Football team :mad:.

I picked my team weeks ago my automatically selecting and forgot about it. Now I'm stuck with him and Eric Abidal in the centre of my defence. More hope of me getting points from Abidal at this stage I'd say.

djpbarry

ColeTrain wrote: »

Destroyed, as in Spain having the most of the ball and creating plenty of chances? Yeah a lot of people were expecting that.

I don’t know about you, but I foolishly thought Ireland might have actually had a go at them? I never expected Ireland to win, but I was hoping they wouldn’t accept defeat before they even set foot on the pitch.

Tellox wrote: »

...Ireland hasn't produced a good player in the last two decades

Relative to? Spain?

Tellox wrote: »

People unaware that the League of Ireland is poorly supported because it's depressing to watch

I’m not getting into the whole LOI versus barstooler thing, but I will point that Trap's options would be severly diminished if the LOI hadn’t produced Shane Long, Kevin Doyle, Keith Fahey, Stephen Ward (who is not good enough for this level, but anyway), Seamus Coleman, Wes Hoolahan (even though Trap obviously doesn’t rate him) and James McClean, among others.

SomethingElse

Over the last 6 years Spain have only beaten 2 teams by four goals in competitive away matches. One of them is Liechtenstein.

karma_

fryup wrote: »

are you on drugs???

Come on now, he was. His commitment was second to none out there and he was flying into tackles, won a good many too. People are criticising him for not defending well, forgetting this is a skilful winger and not a centre half or full back. How many chances did he get to go up the wing tonight? Hardly any, I remember a couple of passes aimed at him, but they were all abysmal and no where near him.

d22ontour

djpbarry wrote: »

People will make the excuse that it’s Spain, but Croatia played us off the park too. So did Hungary. And Russia. **** sake, even Armenia toyed with us in Dublin and they only had ten men on the pitch.
Is that a ****ing joke?

Every one of those countries domestic leagues bar Armenia as i have little knowledge of theirs would be stronger than ours, as was posted above mentioning a catch 22..
What do people really expect from our national team ?
There is no investment in football in our country and the term, we reap what we sow is plain to see.
Thousands of people fly on planes every second week to invest in foreign clubs youth systems and here we are moaning about why we produce little to nothing and rely on mercs... Oh it's not that, it's the tactics or the formation..
We play rigid football that even Armenia can bypass, why is that ? We all have systems, players that should have went, played too, but unless we start producing decent players who are not league 1 material or even out of club, then get used to it.
4:0 with them toying with us is what i expected, they can do that to countries with better teams,tactics than we could ever hope to have...

fryup

ColeTrain wrote: »

Can you tell us why he was poor then instead of making a remark like that?

if i had a supp of beer tonight for every time McGeady gave away the ball i would have died of alcohol poisoning

he was atrocious

djpbarry

plasmaguy wrote: »

When I read stuff like this, I really really wish I could put mods on ignore!!

When I read stuff like this, I'm pretty sure the poster in question has a very weak argument.

RoryMac

Renn wrote: »

RoryMac wrote: »

Good for you

Well I'm just saying Everything leading up to the tournament suggested that Ireland were going to concede quite a few goals - they let far too many shots in on goal (and inside the box too) vs weaker opposition so it was only a matter of time before a good side took advantage of some sloppy defending. They're not a strong unit at the back and this whole 'system' rubbish is just that - rubbish.

I agree, my original point was in reply to the poster that said our team (and fans) were a disgrace for their performances at the Euros.
I only implied that conceding goals in the first mins of each half as we did was not expected of a team with a decent defensive record albeit against poor opposition.

Tellox

Tellox wrote: »

To anyone who got here late, here's what you've missed on this thread;

• People currently experiencing a mix of anger/denial/depression over losing to spain.
• People unaware that Spain are an unbelievably good side
• People unaware that Ireland is to Euro 2012, what Saudi Arabia was to Korea 2002
• People thinking it's Trap's fault that Ireland hasn't produced a good player in the last two decades
• People crying foul because people are commenting on the Irish side, yet do not support a League of Ireland team
• People unaware that the League of Ireland is poorly supported because it's depressing to watch
• People unaware that the League of Ireland is poorly supported because it's depressing to watch (this isn't a double post, I just thought it merited two separate points)
• People blaming the only half decent player we still have in Given
• People shouting about who should never be allowed to wear the Irish Jersey again - as if we have an inventory to replace them.

Welcome to Boards.ie Soccer! Enjoy your stay. We look forward to seeing you for the Italy match.

Dont be such a muppet :mad: We all know it isnt Traps fault but it is Traps fault for picking mediocre players above good footballers who would have improved our team.

We would be still up against it tonight but we would have picked the best available to us. If we went down despite that then fair enough we could have no complaints but only then could we rightfully claim we lost with the best resources available to us and we'd have had a go if we had players who were comfortable on the ball.

Qwerty27

Even the most optimistic supporter must have seen the writing on the wall before this evening....we're just not good enough at this level and thats no shame...we dont have the players and at the end of the day we are doing very well to be in the competition ahead of the likes of Tyrkey, Switzerland etc....

What worries me is the long term future of the Irish team..I recently saw a school boy game between two leading Dublin teams, probably Under 16. Full size pitch, keepers about 5 ft 5, both sets of centre backs close to 6ft and the 4 smallest players on the wings. Ball continously being hoofed forward, away from "danger", nobody encouraged to take a touch and PASS!!

The Goal I saw scored came from half way inside oposition half, 2 wingers in wall :eek: ball booted in , it bounced and the tall defender nodded in! If that was in 1991 I would have thought the tactics were straight from the Big Jack playbook but even after the so called coaches watching the recent success of Spain, Barcelona etc this is how Irish kids play the "Beautiful" game. These lads will get a chance at pro game in UK and go onto represent the National team in 5 -10 years and have no idea of how to hold the ball, keep possesion etc. We'll be having the same discussion on here in 15-20 years unless things change completely at that level of the game....

karma_

fryup wrote: »

if i had a supp of beer tonight for every time McGeady gave away the ball i would have died of alcohol poisoning

he was atrocious

Name me an Irish player out there who didn't give the ball away. Our passing is awful and McGeady is wasted in the system we currently play. I understand being a critic of someone when it's justified but this is a load of bollocks, Give McGeady a bit of ball and ask him to attack up the left, he can beat a man and create a chance or two. What chances did we create out there when the entire team, and not just McGeady who (was doubling up for the fullback all game) give the ball straight back to the other team within 10 seconds of possessing it.

djpbarry

d22ontour wrote: »

4:0 with them toying with us is what i expected, they can do that to countries with better teams,tactics than we could ever hope to have...

Well, no, they don't actually. A 4-0 win is a pretty rare thing for the Spanish.

fryup wrote: »

if i had a supp of beer tonight for every time McGeady gave away the ball i would have died of alcohol poisoning

I'd find it pretty difficult to single out any one player for criticism with regard to ball retention.

firemansam4

djpbarry wrote: »

Absolute and utter bollocks. That team is composed almost entirely of Premiership regulars and you’re telling me that was an acceptable level of performance? If you witnessed those goals on Match of the Day, you wouldn’t think “Blimey, that’s some poor defending, that is”.
No, he’s brought a decent group of players (let’s not pretend we don’t have good players) past a poor Slovakia side, Armenia (both of whom should have beaten us in Dublin) and Estonia. The real tests have shown him up – he’s past it.

Remember all that?

I borrowed this from a post in a different thread as I really didn't want to try going through it all myself, thought this post said it all....

Quote/
Given
Part of a Villa side who were dirt this season. Can't fault him too much, I dont want a big Given post, but I think the praise he got over the years was OTT. Good shot stopper, lacked positional play, prescence in the box and distribution. But I'm happy we have him and hes done well for us big time.

Westwood
9 appearances last season

St Ledger
Leicester have wanted to move him on for a while. Was struggling to break into the team in the Championship and a deal to move him on was on the cards in Jan. African cup of nation departures forced the manager to keep him. Hes got games when Leicster were desperate.

Dunne
Again part of a rubbish Villa side who were terrible this year. His formidable partnership with Collins looked on the rocks, and alot of talk was that he'd stopped looking after himself as he was previously. Looked pretty poor in the league this season.

Ward
A long stint at Wolves that resulted in alot of positional changes and one solid season. Relegated last year and exposed horribly at left back

McGeady
Once claimed by Celtic colleagues " Can be as good as Messi". His developement went sideways after he started believeing his own hype and he has drifted of into below mediocrity.

Duff
Had a few peak years but never got back to them, still the best diver in the game not to be labelled a diver, but hes past it now.

Whelan
For a long time sat in the Stoke reserves and struggled to impress. Had more of an impact this season but I think it was down to lack of midfield resources on their part.

Andrews
31 years old, has had a pretty lackluster couple of years. The blackburn move was due to Ince who got the boot pretty fast, and he was stuck in a club where the management didnt rate him, did ok at Ipswich and its debatable how he will do at West brom with less then 20 games there.

Keane
Moved to the USA, no one in the premier league were interested, got serious money and happy misses and mother in law. His career finished when he took the move, and in fairness he has been pretty poor over there hampered by injuries and lackluster performances

Doyle
Couldn't get a game for the PL whipping boys last season, granted having a lay off with injury.

Cox
Less then 50 games or something for West Brom in three seasons. Spends most of his time on the bench or playing for the reserves.

Paul Green
Mist most of the season with injury, and then got dropped from the squad with Derby. He doesnt actually have a club at the moment....

Paul McShane
Hull have loaned him to two clubs , where he has played less then 12 games for both. They couldnt pay someone to take him. Barnsley finish 21st in the Championship...

And I could go on and on.

But I think I've made my point...

Looking in the squad, McClean, Long, Kelly, Gibson, O Shea and Walters are really the only players that have had in anyway shape or form consistent decent season for their clubs....

And are on the bench...
End Quote/

Originally posted by thedoc in the Trap watch thread

~Rebel~

djpbarry wrote: »

Well, no, they don't actually. A 4-0 win is a pretty rare thing for the Spanish.

Am I right in thinking this is the first time spain have scored more than 1 goal in a tournament game since before World Cup 2010?

ColeTrain

djpbarry wrote: »

I don’t know about you, but I foolishly thought Ireland might have actually had a go at them? I never expected Ireland to win, but I was hoping they wouldn’t accept defeat before they even set foot on the pitch.

I wasn't expecting to have a go at them. If Ireland opened up tonight we would have gotten ripped apart a lot more.
Everytime we went forward they got it back and were hitting us on the break everytime..
Our best chance tonight was to sit back and try to nick a goal. It's ugly to watch but it's the only way to play when you're up against a team like Spain.

I don't think we accepted defeat either. I'd find it hard to criticise the players but your mentality will only take you so far sometimes.

We were poor with giving the ball away and there were plenty of mistakes there but that's our level. We have average players, name me one Irish player that would have made the Spanish 23. We got completely outclassed tonight and we simply aren't good enough to have a go at these teams. That's sad but true. Our only hope is for our younger players to develop in the next couple of years.

TiGeR KiNgS

I think we played well..............











......considering how bad the team is.

d22ontour

Or even play him on the right...
Am not a fan of his in any way but to consistently play him on the wrong wing when Duff has been pretty rubbish for a couple of years is a tactic that is baffling...

Bring back Stan.

MisterAnarchy

karma_ wrote: »

Name me an Irish player out there who didn't give the ball away. Our passing is awful and McGeady is wasted in the system we currently play.

Professional players getting paid 20-40k a week and they struggled to string 2 passes together.
10 and 15 yard passes misplaced .
No composure on the ball ,no confidence .
I dont understand why they cant pass the ball for at least some spells of the match ,Spain werent pressing them that much.

wonderfullife

djpbarry wrote: »

Absolute and utter bollocks. That team is composed almost entirely of Premiership regulars and you’re telling me that was an acceptable level of performance? If you witnessed those goals on Match of the Day, you wouldn’t think “Blimey, that’s some poor defending, that is”.
No, he’s brought a decent group of players (let’s not pretend we don’t have good players) past a poor Slovakia side, Armenia (both of whom should have beaten us in Dublin) and Estonia. The real tests have shown him up – he’s past it.
I honestly don’t care if we actually play decent football. I mean that. Showing up to a major tournament and producing what we produced tonight is embarrassing.
Bring back Brian Kerr. Or Mick – he’s available again. Or the two of them – Kerr as McCarthy’s assistant.
Unbeaten in fourteen games. Eleven clean sheets. Defensively solid. Difficult to beat.

Remember all that?

Most of the side who lined up tonight were in and out at club level all season. Andrews, Whelan, Cox, Doyle, O' Shea, Dunne, whether that's injury or loss of form.

I think the most telling point is we don't have a single player from 1-11 playing for a club who finished in the top 8 in 2012. Even more telling is we have 2 players at clubs who finished 9th/10th, and the remaining 9 are either in the bottom 6 clubs or in the Championship.

The days of having players at top clubs, Houghton, Brady, Aldridge, Keane, Duff (at chelsea), Robbie (Inter briefly ), seem to be over.

Even the lads people are clamouring for inclusion: Hoolahan, Pilkington, Wilson, Coleman, only 1 of them is a regular in a top 10 club.

We just don't have the talent available right now and Trap probably made a balls of picking the best of a bad bunch.

ColeTrain

fryup wrote: »

if i had a supp of beer tonight for every time McGeady gave away the ball i would have died of alcohol poisoning

he was atrocious

You had a few before you watched it then. He kept the ball better than most, defended well and put in a few crosses. To single him out is strange considering the team were pegged back into their own half for the majority of the game and he is an attacking midfielder. Were you expecting him to run the pitch on his own and score?

IvySlayer

There was a miracle tonight...Torres scored :P

Mikeyt086

Absolutely devastated of course with the results and the end result of this European Championship, I never expected Ireland to win it, all I wanted was a moment. A moment like Beating England in 88, The penalties in Italia 90, Houghton vs Italy in 94, Keano against the Germans in 02. This moment never came on the pitch, the class of our opposition was too much for the squad, best described as a 'great bunch of lads' who I genuinely do love, but I can happily say the moment I'll take away from Euro 2012 is the last 10 mins of that game against Spain, when the travelling supporters of Ireland sang so loud that every nation in Europe heard us.

Jesus Wept

The better team won imo.

steelcityblues

ColeTrain wrote: »

You had a few before you watched it then. He kept the ball better than most, defended well and put in a few crosses. To single him out is strange considering the team were pegged back into their own half for the majority of the game and he is an attacking midfielder. Were you expecting him to run the pitch on his own and score?

He was OK in the 2nd half, but he didn't feature at all during that Spanish onslaught in the 1st, when his pace and crossing was needed most. He should not be a defensive player, but this is a regular problem under Trap.

Mostly a passenger against Croatia too, despite the free-kick to St Ledger.

He is decent, but I think you can't argue in favour of him much.

eagle eye

plasmaguy wrote: »

When I read stuff like this, I really really wish I could put mods on ignore!!

You can, I just did.