Republic of Ireland vs España

monkey9

kryogen wrote: »

He said, some of those players thought they were top players, that it was a reality check for them as in, you are not even prepared at the start of the game for such a huge game how can you think you are a top player? Not switched on for the start or second halves of either game.

That is not what top players do.

Your bitter is blinding you

What bitter?? Keane's a legend and one of the greatest players of all time for Ireland!! But he's full of bullsh!t. It funny because he thought he was the business yet it turns out, he was a sh!t manager. So he turns to what he slagged other people off for doing. Became a pundit!! He's full of bullsh!t who says things for the sake of an image!

Of course, slagging Keane off is like slagging Ronaldo off. Utd fans will defend him!!

kryogen

monkey9 wrote: »

What bitter?? Keane's a legend and one of the greatest players of all time for Ireland!! But he's full of bullsh!t. It funny because he thought he was the business yet it turns out, he was a sh!t manager. So he turns to what he slagged other people off for doing. Became a pundit!! He's full of bullsh!t who says things for the sake of an image!

Of course, slagging Keane off is like slagging Ronaldo off. Utd fans will defend him!!

Yep, only United fans.

He is young, may still go on to be a great manager, who knows? He is a winner, I can tell you that so if he puts his mind to it he will do it. Winners win. He was an average manager, maybe slightly above, but had plenty of things to work on, same as, oh I dunno, 95% of managers out there?

All of your posts regarding Keane reek of bitter, no capacity to evaluate what he says, if he says anything at all rationally.

He is not full of bull**** who says things for the sake of image, this is clearly wrong, if someone is so concerned about their image they would just stick to the script for analysts and roll out the usual lines.

You actually have nothing to back up your attacks on him in this one as he didnt even say what you are predicating your attack on. People like to misrepresent what he says a lot alright, its better for the headlines and gives them something to get the bitter out about.

What is it people often say about Keane? He should "get over it"? maybe they should take their own advice?

QDog10

Spain are world class we are not.. It's feasible that any of the other 3 teams in our group could actually win this competition. Spain were always going to beat us. Credit to our players and also supporters. No bitterness or finger pointing just a sporting acceptance of a gulf in class and a healthy respect for the opposition. Hope Trapp gives a few sqaud lads a run v Italy now if they are going to be carrying the can into the World Cup qualifiers. He talks about players needing experience. This game is an ideal match to start the likes of Westwood, Long, Mc Clean and Walters.

kryogen

It would be great if Trap, having shown his loyalty to the players that got Ireland to the Euros, now gives a chance to the newer faces around the squad to get Ireland to a major tournament. It surely even makes sense to him now, a lot of the players playing int he Euros wont be playing international football by the time the WC rolls around

Am I asking too much?

monkey9

kryogen wrote: »

Yep, only United fans.

He is young, may still go on to be a great manager, who knows? He is a winner, I can tell you that so if he puts his mind to it he will do it. Winners win. He was an average manager, maybe slightly above, but had plenty of things to work on, same as, oh I dunno, 95% of managers out there?

All of your posts regarding Keane reek of bitter, no capacity to evaluate what he says, if he says anything at all rationally.

He is not full of bull**** who says things for the sake of image, this is clearly wrong, if someone is so concerned about their image they would just stick to the script for analysts and roll out the usual lines.

You actually have nothing to back up your attacks on him in this one as he didnt even say what you are predicating your attack on. People like to misrepresent what he says a lot alright, its better for the headlines and gives them something to get the bitter out about.

What is it people often say about Keane? He should "get over it"? maybe they should take their own advice?

Keane said the players think they're top players who got a reality check?? Where is he getting this from now?? They went into the Euros thinking they made it and that was them done so didn't bother turning up and switched off early?? They think their all that ? Still trotting out the same bullsh!t. Your Man Utd hero is the new Dunphy! And yeah, he's sticking to his Keane script!!

kryogen

monkey9 wrote: »

Keane said the players think they're top players who got a reality check?? Where is he getting this from now?? They went into the Euros thinking they made it and that was them done so didn't bother turning up and switched off early?? They think their all that ? Still trotting out the same bullsh!t. Your Man Utd hero is the new Dunphy! And yeah, he's sticking to his Keane script!!

See the bitterness there?

Not gonna pick that one apart, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different reults Im told.

I feel sorry for you if Im honest.

monkey9

kryogen wrote: »

See the bitterness there?

Not gonna pick that one apart, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different reults Im told.

I feel sorry for you if Im honest.

You keeping spouting this word 'bitter' as an answer! I'm not bitter about Roy Keane at all. I'm assuming you're putting a Man Utd slant on this. So i'll make it easy for you. If Ronnie Whelan, Liverpool and Ireland legend, went on the same way as Keane, i'd be saying the exact same thing!!

supersean1999

breaking news roy keane is to blame for trap picking 3 center mids, who are not capable of lifting there heads before passing, whealen in particular , the worst passer last night ,

kryogen

monkey9 wrote: »

You keeping spouting this word 'bitter' as an answer! I'm not bitter about Roy Keane at all. I'm assuming you're putting a Man Utd slant on this. So i'll make it easy for you. If Ronnie Whelan, Liverpool and Ireland legend, went on the same way as Keane, i'd be saying the exact same thing!!

Im not, its not a United/Liverpool thing at all, evidenced by the fact that same as you, if Ronnie Whelan said the same stuff Keane did I would also agree with him!

You come across as bitter, what else can I do but take it as bitterness?

Do you deliberately misrepresent what he said then? Or is that just what someone else told you he said? If its not bitterness I mean?

I have answered you a few times on topic, there is only so many times I am prepared to repeat myself in one hour.

monkey9

kryogen wrote: »

Im not, its not a United/Liverpool thing at all, evidenced by the fact that same as you, if Ronnie Whelan said the same stuff Keane did I would also agree with him!

You come across as bitter, what else can I do but take it as bitterness?

Do you deliberately misrepresent what he said then? Or is that just what someone else told you he said? If its not bitterness I mean?

I have answered you a few times on topic, there is only so many times I am prepared to repeat myself in one hour.

Bitter about what??? What are you talking about?? If i disagree with a comment, i'm automatically bitter??

kryogen

monkey9 wrote: »

Bitter about what??? What are you talking about?? If i disagree with a comment, i'm automatically bitter??

No its more the personal insults you make toward him at every opportunity.

Plenty disagree with Keane, some can do is based on the merits of a topic, some do it purely because its Keane and an opportunity to have a pop.

btw, you very rarely answer questions I ask, why is that?

djpbarry

death1234567 wrote: »

We were never going to be good enough to qualify from the group.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Ireland were anything other than an outside bet to qualify – as I said earlier in the thread, we didn’t beat anyone of note in the qualifiers so it was optimistic to think we’d beat even Croatia. But, as you said, it’s the manner of the defeats that is so disappointing. We’ve exited the competition with barely a whimper. Last night was quite literally a training game for the Spanish – they barely broke sweat. That’s just not good enough.

kryogen

djpbarry wrote: »

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Ireland were anything other than an outside bet to qualify – as I said earlier in the thread, we didn’t beat anyone of note in the qualifiers so it was optimistic to think we’d beat even Croatia. But, as you said, it’s the manner of the defeats that is so disappointing. We’ve exited the competition with barely a whimper. Last night was quite literally a training game for the Spanish – they barely broke sweat. That’s just not good enough.

This, there was none of the blood and guts displyed by former Irish teams, this is the biggest disappointment of the whole thing.

monkey9

kryogen wrote: »

No its more the personal insults you make toward him at every opportunity.

Plenty disagree with Keane, some can do is based on the merits of a topic, some do it purely because its Keane and an opportunity to have a pop.

btw, you very rarely answer questions I ask, why is that?

Personal insults? What, that i think he's full of it?? Yeah, i do! I don't know what's bitter about that. I do, you don't!!

And what questions have you asked??

Leslie91

Hey...... and nobody questions that the Irish players didn't pay for their tickets to come and watch Spain play?. The fans paid good money to come do that, the players should have too.

StephenHendry

kryogen wrote: »

He said, some of those players thought they were top players, that it was a reality check for them as in, you are not even prepared at the start of the game for such a huge game how can you think you are a top player? Not switched on for the start or second halves of either game.

That is not what top players do.

Your bitter is blinding you

keane was right on what he said in that we need to really evaluate things for the next qualifiers, we didnt' perform well, especially our defence in the goals we gave away. hopefully these results will cause trap to have a serious look at things and show more faith in the younger players like mccarthy, mclean etc. when the 2014 WC qualifiers begin. i doubt though we will change our style of play which is what we need

QDog10

monkey9 wrote: »

Personal insults? What, that i think he's full of it?? Yeah, i do! I don't know what's bitter about that. I do, you don't!!

And what questions have you asked??

The blood and guts day's unfortunately for Ireland are a thing of the past. We don't actually possess any aggressive type players any more in the mould of Mc Carthy, Phelan, Keane, Carsley, Kelly - all who fancied the rough and ready style of football. Just look at the Greek fella sent off in the 1st game and you can get an idea of the nonsense that players have to deal with these days from officials for any sort of contact. Players are far more disciplined nowadays anyway given the systems and tactics they play. The same with GAA. Any indiscretion and a sending off and the game plan is in tatters..

StephenHendry

secman wrote: »

Can only assume the pure brilliance of the spanish football intoxicated the Irish fans into a sing song frenzy.

I see John Delaney's FAI have issued a statement on how brilliant the fans were last night, thats his first line of defence ...............!

FAI should get involved with the Irelands entry into Eurovision Song Contest as they seem to be more interested in the singing by the fans than the football "played" by Irish players.

It was cringeworthy stuff last night, the gulf between them and us is unreal

thats a bit harsh, its great credit to those fans who kept singing and supporting the lads towards the end, it would have been all too easy to up sticks and leave

jiltloop

CiaranC wrote: »

Yet you claim to have an allegiance to Tottenham Hotspur. In London.

As I said before, I have always enjoyed watching the english game and from a young age I formed an allegiance to spurs. I saw them on TV every saturday on match of the day. Whether you like it or not that's how most people of my generation got into football. There was no LOI around me but match of the day was on the box every weekend. I still fail to see why I should support LOI when I have never once been interested in it. As I've said before it isn't a competition.

TheRedDevil10

Andrews our best player again last night ?

steelcityblues

TheRedDevil10 wrote: »

Andrews our best player again last night ?

Given?

Orando Broom

steelcityblues wrote: »

Given?

The first goal?! No way was he our best player. Andrews for me. Duff too.

Blatter

Orando Broom wrote: »

The first goal?! No way was he our best player. Andrews for me. Duff too.

The second goal more so. Palmed Iniesta's shot straight out to Silva, not good keeping.

steelcityblues

Orando Broom wrote: »

The first goal?! No way was he our best player. Andrews for me. Duff too.

Not his best performance in an ireland jersey, but he made more quality saves than blunders.

The defence in front of him has really let him down for two matches running (that includes St. Richard of Dunne, and the other guy with St.in his proper name), and I am sure he will do us proud against Italy. If he starts, of course.

Andrews did OK, I guess. Duff is finished at international level.

The_Kew_Tour

Andrews worked his socks off.

Was very disappointed with Whelan for the 2 games.

Even in warm up I remember my mate even pointing out he looked nervous and even in the passing practise before game he gave ball away.

I know was only warm up but he just seemed to let occasion get to him.

Pighead

Speaking of the warm up, this tweet from Ken Early gave me a chuckle before the game.

Ken Early ‏@kenearlys
watching warm-ups in gdansk. spain players ping the ball around in a furious rondo. shane long accidentally volleys a ball into his own face

Colonialboy

TheRedDevil10 wrote: »

Andrews our best player again last night ?

Andrews style is killing the team...
he keeps pointing backwards telling players to play back to the keeper
he rarely works a triangle and goes for the return 'MOVING FORWARDS'
he drops too deep on top of the defense and stands in front of Givens line of sight
he too often gives one pass and then runs back to our goal

he has periods where he moves forward and you can see the whole team draged forward and our opponents are under pressure, and it was our best periods in both games.

unfortunately he doest do it often enough.

Andrews had the best periods of any Irish player. Over hte two games I thought Duff was better.
But overall I dont think any Irish player deserves the 'best player' title.

Orando Broom

Blatter wrote: »

The second goal more so. Palmed Iniesta's shot straight out to Silva, not good keeping.

Yep. The defending for that was tragic. Ward standing off with two defenders lined up behind him; cry. Silva rolling the ball through Dunne's leg was the act of a brazen pup !

monkey9

Pighead wrote: »

Speaking of the warm up, this tweet from Ken Early gave me a chuckle before the game.

Ken Early ‏@kenearlys
watching warm-ups in gdansk. spain players ping the ball around in a furious rondo. shane long accidentally volleys a ball into his own face

Ahahaha!! I literally did LOL reading that!!!

djpbarry

QDog10 wrote: »

We don't actually possess any aggressive type players any more...

Come off it. There are plenty of physical players in that squad – getting out-fought by a team of midgets is inexcusable.

Rebelbrowser

Andrews and Duff our two best performers in Poland to my mind.

Just going back on the Keane quotes, particularly viz our players needing a reality check...

I get the impression 99% of the criticism Keane gives to the current Irish team is really directed at Shay Given. Whether it goes back to the events leading up to Saipan, or something else, I don't know. All I know is that Keane seems to hate him and has often appeared to say frankly ridiculous things about the Irish players in an attempt to have a go at Given. I think his quote last night was yet another example.

That having been said, of course Keane's biggest gripe with Given is the allegation that he wants to play every match for Ireland, irrespective of injury, need to blood other players, etc, etc. In fairness to Keane there's been evidence of this phenomenon these past two games with Shay letting in at least three goals he really should have stopped. I don't think he's fit. I think if Westwood was in goal these past two games we'd have conceded less.

I also wonder how match fit Dunne and O'Shea are too. Having these 3 below par for the euros was something we couldn't hope to overcome.

P.S. - Credit where its due to Shay last night though for THAT save in the 2nd half....

Renn

kitakyushu

Very difficult to beat Spain at home.

CSF

Leslie91 wrote: »

Hey...... and nobody questions that the Irish players didn't pay for their tickets to come and watch Spain play?. The fans paid good money to come do that, the players should have too.

Would you go away

geeky

I've very little time for him generally but the vilification of Keane for his comments is ridiculous. We weren't there for a sing-song, we were there to do our best, and some of the defending in the second half of both games just wasn't that. Praising the fans and ignoring the performance is an easy out IMO.

Having said that, I think Keane falls into a trap that hits a lot of top players who go into management or punditry. He just doesn't seem to understand how a player can simply not be good enough, and blames a lack of effort. You couldn't fault the effort Andrews put in last night, for example: he was just overmatched by players who were far more technically gifted. But not everybody can honestly say they were playing with maximum effort, discipline and concentration.

Roy's basically posed a question: are happy to be the plucky lads who get to a tournament now and then and have the craic, or do we want to seriously punch above our weight - which entails a long hard look at our youth development strategy and other issues. I'd like to go down the latter road, but there are plenty of people happy with option 1.

blatantrereg

Renn wrote: »

We had only four more failed passes than Spain

gosplan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Personally I couldn't care less about the Irish fans singing. If anything it's kind embarrassing. 4-0 down, I don't want them to be singing merrily.

One of the reasons they're singing is because they want to read later about how the Irish fans are such great guys and about the fans that were there supporting the team, "the best in the world". What's so great about singing? This isn't a singing competition. Maybe other fans just don't want to sing, they just want to watch the match. Singing is often just part of the crowd creating their own drama when they're bored.

Tut tut. Anyway, saw a very good post about this whole thing on another forum:

hotspur wrote: »

I was watching a little of Roy Keane bitching and moaning about individual player performances. The guy is not connected with reality. It is a very sad thing to see a person so utterly obsessed with this thing called "winning" that they cannot appreciate or enjoy life without it.

What is winning at the end of the day? A shiny cup? The people who go out there and enjoy their moment by moment experience living life as a end in itself as opposed to a means to a categorical end are the ones who are happy.

I'm with Kipling when he wrote:
"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same"

Some people bemoan the Irish attitude of enjoying themselves supporting the team at tournaments even if they lose, insinuating that the attitude of just being happy to be there is somehow morally or aesthetically inferior to psychologically demanding success. But such grasping, in all its forms, leads to suffering. You don't need to be the Buddha or Freud to work that out.

I admire those fans who sing and celebrate despite losing. Anyone can celebrate when they win. To relinquish your capacity to be joyful to something like a football team winning a match is a sacrifice that too rarely has the payoff to be worth it. It is emotionally -EV.

I believe that the Irish attitude which underlies that singing and partying despite loss has a strong part to play in why Ireland consistently polls well in leagues of well being, flourishing, and happiness.

One of my fav footballers daniele tomassi always had a similar line - that it's easy to be a good winner but the struggle is to lose well.

Anyway, it's the first of many of these from Roy keane. He couldn't quite cut it as a manager telling everyone what he thinks of them but now he's found his niche.

The ironic thing is that his single minded will to win was a big factor in blowing the greatest chance to go deep in a major tournament that most of us will see as Irish fans in our lifetimes.

That was some team, they were playing some football and bar Brazil, none of the big nations were any good at that world cup.

I will never get over that.

wonderfullife

The eyes of Europe and the World in their tens of millions were on the match last night. The lasting impression that was left on them was Ireland are rubbish, Spain are class and demolished us, and our fans supported their team to the very end.

It's not a self-esteem issue to sing your heart out for 10 mins and praise the fans who did it. It actually takes tremendous strength, determination and character to do what they did during those Final ten minutes. See your team getting battered to a pulp and still make yourself heard.

Amidst all the doom and gloom of the recession and bailout, it's a positive image to project to Europe and the World. Certainly won't hurt our image and will likely be a very positive tourism advertisement.

Anyway, enough of all that.......

noodler

I wonder if those who say Duff is finished are still expecting him to be the Duff of 2002.

His game has completely changed - he has to cut in more and he is excellent at winning us free-kicks and actually keeping possession.

He is 33 so he might retire but I would certainly be asking him not to if I was Trap.

Renn

That was one woeful attempt of a pass from Dunne that led to the second goal. Should have played it out wide to O'Shea instead of trying something ambitious like that. Really tired pass too.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrjf9f_www-online-soccer-ru-spain-4-0-republic-of-ireland-all-goals_sport?start=74

closeline

Duff offers workrate. that is all. he cant cross, cant go past a player, turns back which he showed again last night. The other wingers in the squad offer more than that. Time to retire Duffer.

kitakyushu

Renn wrote: »

That was one woeful attempt of a pass from Dunne that led to the second goal. Should have played it out wide to O'Shea instead of trying something ambitious like that. Really tired pass too.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrjf9f_www-online-soccer-ru-spain-4-0-republic-of-ireland-all-goals_sport?start=74

Fairly embarrassing stuff. Dunne fluffed pass, Given's weak punch, St. Ledger slipping in the box. Three errors leading to a goal. I almost think we'd have been been better going for a rugby style kick into touch down the other end every time we had no passing option.

closeline

Its amazing the one area that got us to this tournamnet was good defending and in this tournamnent poor defending led to most of our goals conceded and it isnt over yet. We looked a shambles last night and sunday every time they attacked.

kitakyushu

closeline wrote: »

Its amazing the one area that got us to this tournamnet was good defending and in this tournamnent poor defending led to most of our goals conceded and it isnt over yet. We looked a shambles last night and sunday every time they attacked.

That's the thing. It wasn't good defending, it was merely defense in numbers. We played in Moscow exactly like we have in these last two games and people laughed it off because we got away with 0-0.

wonderfullife

closeline wrote: »

Duff offers workrate. that is all. he cant cross, cant go past a player, turns back which he showed again last night. The other wingers in the squad offer more than that. Time to retire Duffer.

You obviously don't watch Fulham a lot. This season he's provided so much via crosses, the difference being they have Dempsey and Pogrebniak up front to get on the end of them.

Admittedly he's not the force of old. I remember one of my favourite Soccer AM moments was when Eidur Gudjohnsen was asked who the most skillful at the club was and he said "Damien Duff" and was asked what's Duffs best trick and he just smiled and said "running past people is a pretty good one!!"

monkey9

closeline wrote: »

Its amazing the one area that got us to this tournamnet was good defending and in this tournamnent poor defending led to most of our goals conceded and it isnt over yet. We looked a shambles last night and sunday every time they attacked.

We looked a shambles in both matches against Russia!! We're ok at a certain level, above that we get mullered!!

Renn

Yeah there was zero reason for him to try something like that. Just totally panicked and started off that entire mess of a goal. Looking at the highlights again St. Ledger had a nightmare. Positionally all over the shop

Shanotheslayer

In my opinion, I think the only reason the Irish over there were singing is because we where happy to be there.

Realistically if we had a world class team, my bollix would be singing if we were expected to go far in it.

Conceding 7 goals in two games? Shocking.

Losing to Crotia, which where probably the 'easiest' team to beat in our group was the icing on the cake.

I'm not disappointed or anything, it's just what I expected.

Justin10

Just on Roy Keane's comments, he was spot on. Thee guy is a winner, and wants to win at everything.

Look at Shay Givens interview after the match, saying that the World Cup would be easier because we would get Saudi Arabia or New Zealand.

Shay is one of our most importent players and is coming out with comments like this. This is the mentality Roy was on about.

Very surprised how poor we played, the mistakes where shocking compared to our qualifying campaign. How slow we are using the ball in the two games was really poor.

Dunphy was spot on saying we can give the ball away to lesser teams but when you are at the Euros we will be punished.
I would compare us to Greece, they are competitive in my opinion because of Karagounis who shows for the ball all of the time and can pass the ball. Whelan is hopeless at this, Andrews isn't too bad but we really need someone in midfield who will show for the ball.

djpbarry

wonderfullife wrote: »

It actually takes tremendous strength, determination and character to do what they did during those Final ten minutes. See your team getting battered to a pulp and still make yourself heard.

Amidst all the doom and gloom of the recession and bailout, it's a positive image to project to Europe and the World.

Jaysus, that’s the very definition of grasping at straws.

closeline wrote: »

Duff offers workrate. that is all. he cant cross, cant go past a player, turns back which he showed again last night. The other wingers in the squad offer more than that. Time to retire Duffer.

Nonsense. Duff is still a good player - Ireland would certainly be worse off without him. He’s just not the flying winger he used to be. Probably make more sense to play him inside behind a front 1/2 these days.