Republic of Ireland vs España

djpbarry

Rochey18 wrote: »

Just on Roy Keane's comments, he was spot on.

He made one or two good points – for example, he’s right to say the goals were shocking. However, much of what he said was just petty nonsense.

kitakyushu

Rochey18 wrote: »

Shay is one of our most impotent players and is coming out with comments like this. This is the mentality Roy was on about.

He really is in physical decline isn't he.

Renn

djpbarry wrote: »

Well, no, they don't actually. A 4-0 win is a pretty rare thing for the Spanish.

Where are you plucking this from?

kryogen

Renn wrote: »

Where are you plucking this from?

Have a look through here

http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=esp/fixturesresults/gender=m/index.html

Renn

kryogen wrote: »

Have a look through here

http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=esp/fixturesresults/gender=m/index.html

Like I was saying though, they've scored 4+ goals twelve times since 2009

G.K.

I think he meant competitively.

kryogen

See how many 4 goal +wins you can see.

You might be interested to see the amount of 1 goal wins?

Spain have had 5 results of 4 goal + wins, (Ireland being the 5th) since January 2010 (7%)

They have had 21, 1 or 2 goal wins out of 35 games played, (60%)

kryogen

G.K. wrote: »

I think he meant competitively.

Competitvely they have quite a run of 1 and 2 goal wins, they very rarely hammer teams as you can see by the results.

noodler

closeline wrote: »

Duff offers workrate. that is all. he cant cross, cant go past a player, turns back which he showed again last night. The other wingers in the squad offer more than that. Time to retire Duffer.

I think you need to watch more football tbh.

eagle eye

Renn wrote: »

Like I was saying though, they've scored 4+ goals twelve times since 2009

See they beat the USA 4-0 and away too not at a neutral venue.

djpbarry

Renn wrote: »

Like I was saying though, they've scored 4+ goals twelve times since 2009

Well, I'm looking at their qualifying record for these championships and the only team on the end of a hiding were Liechtenstein (twice). Spain failed to keep a clean sheet in every other game, bar one. Even Scotland managed to keep the score-line respectable against them (they nearly nicked a 3-3 draw at Hampden).

In qualifying for the 2010 World Cup, they had two big wins: 4-0 and 5-0 at home to Armenia and Belgium respectively.

I think it’s also worth pointing out that last night’s result was Ireland’s worst in a competitive game for over 40 years.

kitakyushu

Here's Spain's competitive goals breakdown over the last three tournaments.

goals|2008|2010|2012|Grand Total
0|2|1|0|3
1|4|6|2|12
2|7|5|2|14
3|3|2|4|9
4|2|1|1|4
5|0|2|0|2
6|0|0|1|1
games|18|17|10|45


Letting in 4 is fairly bad but 3+ has already happened 16 times in 45 games which is a fairly frightening statistic. I think cos they got a lot of 1-0's in WC2010 there's somehow this assumption that all you have to do is turn up, park the bus and then that's the worst that will happen to you.

Pompey Magnus

As far as I am concerned Irish fans had no right expecting the team to get more than at most 1 point out of our group. With a squad as limited as ours coming up against 3 teams with far better ability it is just unfair to set an unrealistically high target and then condemn the players for not reaching it. We could have done better, in fact we could have qualified out of the group, but the only way that was ever going to be possible was if at least 2 of the teams in our group had an absolutely dreadful tournament and that did not occur.

The team under performed and that was disappointing but there is too much nonsense being spouted about us needing to have a winning attitude and not accepting anything less than success. Bullsh*t. We need to set realistic targets based on the quality of players at our disposal.

I am not too disappointed that at a squad of players who, on a whole, would probably make a good quality Championship squad, lost 4-0 to the best team in the world and I won't be disappointed at finishing bottom of a very tough group, I am just disappointed the team didn't show more fight.

kitakyushu

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

The team under performed and that was disappointing

Overall I agree with your post but I don't agree with that bit myself. We've pretty much performed on a par with how we have over the past 2 years. If we'd been paired with Spain in qualification rather than a bunch of soft touches we'd have realised that several months ago.

djpbarry

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

As far as I am concerned Irish fans had no right expecting the team to get more than at most 1 point out of our group. With a squad as limited as ours coming up against 3 teams with far better ability...

I think it’s really pushing it to suggest that Croatia have a far better squad than Ireland.

kitakyushu

djpbarry wrote: »

I think it’s really pushing it to suggest that Croatia have a far better squad than Ireland.

Overall theu have slightly better players. Defo have a better manager.

G.K.

djpbarry wrote: »

I think it’s really pushing it to suggest that Croatia have a far better squad than Ireland.

Imo they do.

applehunter

Didn't expect much going into this competition. We have been poor for the majority of the last few years scraping results with a limited gameplan

But the fact that we were not even solid was disappointing.

Performances/results have exposed Trapatoni's antiquated football philosophy.

Hard to be positive going forward.

The debt on Lansdowne will mean ticket prices will remain high which will mean a half full stadium playing poor football for foreseeable future.

Pompey Magnus

djpbarry wrote: »

I think it’s really pushing it to suggest that Croatia have a far better squad than Ireland.

Do you reckon? I'm not an expert on the Croatia team but I can't think of too many Irish players who would make it onto their squad.

Orando Broom

applehunter wrote: »

Didn't expect much going into this competition. We have been poor for the majority of the last few years scraping results with a limited gameplan

But the fact that we were not even solid was disappointing.

Performances/results have exposed Trapatoni's antiquated football philosophy.

Hard to be positive going forward.

The debt on Lansdowne will mean ticket prices will remain high which will mean a half full stadium playing poor football for foreseeable future.

Honestly I had high hopes. I genuinely believed we'd be the fittest most organized and totally focused. I thought we could expect hat much. I thought we'd frustrate Croatia and perhaps catch a jaded Spain on the hop. I thought Spain might have crosssed a bridge too far. Their performance in England looked like a eam that was running out of invention and guile and the energy was sapped. The capitulation of Barca and Real in the Champions League gave me further hope.


As the quote says; hope is generally a wrong guide though it is good company along the way.

kryogen

djpbarry wrote: »

I think it’s really pushing it to suggest that Croatia have a far better squad than Ireland.

They do though

djpbarry

G.K. wrote: »

Imo they do.

They're definitely a better side, player-for-player. I'm not disputing that. But I don't think the gulf is really as big as it looked on Sunday.

Renn

Orando Broom wrote: »

Honestly I had high hopes. I genuinely believed we'd be the fittest most organized and totally focused. I thought we could expect hat much. I thought we'd frustrate Croatia and perhaps catch a jaded Spain on the hop. I thought Spain might have crosssed a bridge too far. Their performance in England looked like a eam that was running out of invention and guile and the energy was sapped. The capitulation of Barca and Real in the Champions League gave me further hope.


As the quote says; hope is generally a wrong guide though it is good company along the way.

How could we catch them on the hop when we haven't done that in the recent past to any decent team? I seriously wonder what people do be looking at some of the time. Versus England they had 21 shots (2 on goal, 12 of them inside the box) and 71% possession. Still creating lots/invention still there. Lots of energy to keep that going. Barcelona, in the games vs Chelsea, did even more. Created even better opportunities.

G.K.

Croatia are missing 2 of their best players in Olic and Lovren too.

djpbarry

G.K. wrote: »

Croatia are missing 2 of their best players in Olic and Lovren too.

Fair point.

Orando Broom

Renn wrote: »

How could we catch them on the hop when we haven't done that in the recent past to any decent team? I seriously wonder what people do be looking at some of the time. Versus England they had 21 shots (2 on goal, 12 of them inside the box) and 71% possession. Still creating lots/invention still there. Lots of energy to keep that going. Barcelona, in the games vs Chelsea, did even more. Created even better opportunities.

I would have believed that we could have cut down the shots. I was of the belief that the work Trap would have done in the training in the weeks leading up to the tournament would close the gap. retread my post for other reasons.

Also lol at your notion that because something never happened before that it can't happen. Ireland hadn't been beaten by more than Two goals in a competitive game under Trap until last Sunday.

Renn

How could we cut down the shots though when we didn't do it for two years? We just invite people in to the box and hope for the best.

Well can I lol at your notion of catching them on the hop when we don't do that vs any decent team? Of course it could happen but you're talking about a 1% chance. Maybe 2% if you dropped Keane. Maybe 3% if you dropped Ward.

paddyismaddy

spain didnt even bring their a game and they destroyed us, disgraceful display from us

NIMAN

Thing that really stands out for me is just how uncomfortable Irish (and indeed most British) players are with the ball. Their control, touch, passing is miles behind most continental players, despite the fact that many of those players on the pitch for Ireland have become multi-millionaires playing football. You'd think they would have some ability, wouldn't you?

It does of course all go back to how we are taught to play football as children. Spain didn't have to harass us too much last night to get the ball back, as we either lumped it long and took the 50/50 chance of winning it, or else miscontrolled a pass and gave it back to them that way.

Fundamentally I never see Irish and British players learning to play football like the Spanish. The fans like the huff and puff style here, despite it being found out when we play good teams. Only so far effort and hard work will take you, you still have to have ability and the necessary skill level too.

I do fear for the future of football in Ireland. I think that we will continue to struggle to qualify for tournaments, and if we do, we will be outclassed by more technical teams. The days of 'putting them under pressure' is long gone.

I do think we will become just like Scotland and Wales, and end up qualifying maybe once every generation or less. Football has moved on, and we missed the train.

djpbarry

Orando Broom wrote: »

I would have believed that we could have cut down the shots. I was of the belief that the work Trap would have done in the training in the weeks leading up to the tournament would close the gap.

I really do wonder what they were up to in that training camp. Did someone forget to bring the footballs?

karma_

NIMAN wrote: »

I do think we will become just like Scotland and Wales, and end up qualifying maybe once every generation or less. Football has moved on, and we missed the train.

I think the volume of support brought abroad to these finals by teams like Ireland and Scotland is why the tournament is being expanded from 2016. Ireland should be able to qualify for a 24 team Euro tournament comfortably enough.

Orando Broom

djpbarry wrote: »

I really do wonder what they were up to in that training camp. Did someone forget to bring the footballs?

Honestly. I am kinda shocked by the whole affair. I really thought we'd be nailed on with our fundamentals. I would have thought we'd at least be going into the third game with possibilities. The 'reports' coming out of the camp are getting interesting.

I'm telling ya if it keeps going it will make Saipan look like a pillow fight. There could be a serious bloodletting!

djpbarry

NIMAN wrote: »

Fundamentally I never see Irish and British players learning to play football like the Spanish.

How teams in Ireland play really doesn’t explain what is happening with the national team – many LOI teams (forget about the standard for a second), for example, play excellent football. Go watch UCD, Ireland’s closest thing to a “farm” team – the ball never leaves the deck.

And nobody is going to convince me that the likes of Keane, Duff and McGeady are not capable of playing one and two-touch football. Sure, Duff and Keane might be past their best, but they are still technically good footballers.

In my opinion, one of the big problems (and it’s been a problem for a long time) is that Irish footballers are far too Premiership orientated in their ambitions. Young Irish players in particular. What I mean by that is that I would like to see Irish players looking further afield in search of first team football – great to see McGeady going to Russia, for example, and he looks a better player for it. Robbie going to LA is not exactly what I had in mind though. In the long run, I’d like to see players stay in Ireland until they’re at least 18 – they’re better off playing first team football here than sitting in some reserve reserve team somewhere in the UK (generally speaking – there will be exceptions). Then I’d like to see them consider options other than the UK to further their development.

Orando Broom

djpbarry wrote: »

How teams in Ireland play really doesn’t explain what is happening with the national team – many LOI teams (forget about the standard for a second), for example, play excellent football. Go watch UCD, Ireland’s closest thing to a “farm” team – the ball never leaves the deck.

And nobody is going to convince me that the likes of Keane, Duff and McGeady are not capable of playing one and two-touch football. Sure, Duff and Keane might be past their best, but they are still technically good footballers.

In my opinion, one of the big problems (and it’s been a problem for a long time) is that Irish footballers are far too Premiership orientated in their ambitions. Young Irish players in particular. What I mean by that is that I would like to see Irish players looking further afield in search of first team football – great to see McGeady going to Russia, for example, and he looks a better player for it. Robbie going to LA is not exactly what I had in mind though. In the long run, I’d like to see players stay in Ireland until they’re at least 18 – they’re better off playing first team football here than sitting in some reserve reserve team somewhere in the UK (generally speaking – there will be exceptions). Then I’d like to see them consider options other than the UK to further their development.

I think for the most part league of Ireland players and teams endeavour to play football. However I think some of the managers retreat into the negative shïte the second the pressure is on. I think t lower levels you can go to any park on any weekend and watch great football.

I have a belief that it is easier to pass a ball to fett five yards than it is to ping a ball 60 yards to a guys head. It is easier for lesser teams to play ball to feet than play long ball. Just my opinion from years of playing.

jayteecork

NIMAN wrote: »

Thing that really stands out for me is just how uncomfortable Irish (and indeed most British) players are with the ball. Their control, touch, passing is miles behind most continental players, despite the fact that many of those players on the pitch for Ireland have become multi-millionaires playing football. You'd think they would have some ability, wouldn't you?

It does of course all go back to how we are taught to play football as children. Spain didn't have to harass us too much last night to get the ball back, as we either lumped it long and took the 50/50 chance of winning it, or else miscontrolled a pass and gave it back to them that way.

Fundamentally I never see Irish and British players learning to play football like the Spanish. The fans like the huff and puff style here, despite it being found out when we play good teams. Only so far effort and hard work will take you, you still have to have ability and the necessary skill level too.

I do fear for the future of football in Ireland. I think that we will continue to struggle to qualify for tournaments, and if we do, we will be outclassed by more technical teams. The days of 'putting them under pressure' is long gone.

I do think we will become just like Scotland and Wales, and end up qualifying maybe once every generation or less. Football has moved on, and we missed the train.

I blame Franco for Spain's talent with the ball.
As Eamon Dunphy says great footballers come out of dictatorships.

kitakyushu

jayteecork wrote: »

I blame Franco for Spain's talent with the ball.
As Eamon Dunphy says great footballers come out of dictatorships.

We can never hope to compete with the best teams given the amount of personal stereos and higher education in this country.

Sergio

After thinking alot today about our disastrous campaign i am very disappointed with the team and their performances and the manager too of course.I do agree with what Roy keane said on utv last night as he said us the fans deserved to see better football and not the crap we had to watch against croatia and spain in the past week. Im not buying the talk that we dont have the players blah blah blah blah anymore. At the end of the day all our players are paid professionals getting paid thousands of euro a week for kicking a ball and i am not accepting the excuses people make for them anymore. They couldnt do the most basic things in football like defend properly and pass the ball. The goals we conceded were shocking and they couldnt string 3 passes together consecutively without giving away the ball. I was watching them lastnight and when we did have the ball we looked uncomfortable and didnt seem to know what to do with it. You would see better football from schoolboys on a sunday morning!

Orando Broom

kitakyushu wrote: »

We can never hope to compete with the best teams given the amount of personal stereos and higher education in this country.

Home taping is killing soccer.

NIMAN

djpbarry wrote: »

How teams in Ireland play really doesn’t explain what is happening with the national team – many LOI teams (forget about the standard for a second), for example, play excellent football. Go watch UCD, Ireland’s closest thing to a “farm” team – the ball never leaves the deck.

And nobody is going to convince me that the likes of Keane, Duff and McGeady are not capable of playing one and two-touch football. Sure, Duff and Keane might be past their best, but they are still technically good footballers.

In my opinion, one of the big problems (and it’s been a problem for a long time) is that Irish footballers are far too Premiership orientated in their ambitions. Young Irish players in particular. What I mean by that is that I would like to see Irish players looking further afield in search of first team football – great to see McGeady going to Russia, for example, and he looks a better player for it. Robbie going to LA is not exactly what I had in mind though. In the long run, I’d like to see players stay in Ireland until they’re at least 18 – they’re better off playing first team football here than sitting in some reserve reserve team somewhere in the UK (generally speaking – there will be exceptions). Then I’d like to see them consider options other than the UK to further their development.

You make plenty of good points, however most of the Irish style of play is based on how they do it in England, irrespective of how they play in the LoI. Once a player 'makes it' and gets a pro contract in England, effort takes precedence over skill. Thats just the way it is.

Only point I disagree with you is about McGeady. Do you seriously think he is 'better' now? If those displays he put in in Poland are him being better, then I am wondering can we send him back to Scotland:D

monkey9

SuperInfinity wrote: »

How do you know? Can you back it up with any points or data or experience? Not trying to criticize you or anything, I just don't like cold-reading and guessing. When it comes to football, everyone turns into an expert...

Well it's not scientific, but you see the likes of Keith Fahey, Seamus Coleman, James McClean etc leaving LOI clubs and going into the English sides soon after, playing Premier League games!

I'd love if it players played in the LOI before going over across the water. It can be beneficial and plenty of scouts watch this league, the players are not going unnoticed.

Reading manager Brian McDermott has been over at the last two St Pat's matches, presumably to look at Chris Forrester.

WallyGUFC

Only one thing for it: sack Trap and get somebody to pay Guardiola 10mil a year, give him a ten year contract and put him and his assistants in charge of every Irish team from u16s up

aidan24326

Orando Broom wrote: »

Honestly. I am kinda shocked by the whole affair. I really thought we'd be nailed on with our fundamentals. I would have thought we'd at least be going into the third game with possibilities. The 'reports' coming out of the camp are getting interesting.

I'm telling ya if it keeps going it will make Saipan look like a pillow fight. There could be a serious bloodletting!

Could you elaborate? What reports?

carbon nanotube

moody has downgraded Ireland's football team to junk status after them performances. :mad:

eyescreamcone

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Only one thing for it: sack Trap and get somebody to pay Guardiola 10mil a year, give him a ten year contract and put him and his assistants in charge of every Irish team from u16s up

Under 16s is way too late.
We need 7/8 year olds playing "piggy in the middle" EVERY day for hours.
EVERY DAY!!!

We were better off in the past when kids played on the street for hours. The only problem with this is that the development was haphazard.
But this is where some of our gifted players came from.

Now the kids are driven to a club and are "trained" for 2 hours max per week and maybe extra at the weekend for the elite.
Is this enough????
Are our schoolboy coaches good enough???
Are they brave enough to persevere with small players with a good touch???
Do we praise development over winning local cups???
Can we recognise potential at an early age???

I admit I have lots of questions - not so many answers.

We don't have to reinvent the wheel though.
Let's copy places that get it right.
Spain and holland in particular.

fryup

this is how you do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSYzNZPbMs

djpbarry

NIMAN wrote: »

You make plenty of good points, however most of the Irish style of play is based on how they do it in England, irrespective of how they play in the LoI. Once a player 'makes it' and gets a pro contract in England, effort takes precedence over skill.

That's precisely my point and why I would like to see more Irish players playing outside Britain. In the Premiership, for a lot of clubs, due to the financial implications, the emphasis is on not getting relegated and therefore, in each game, not losing. Hence, as you say, work rate and fitness often take precedence over technical ability.

NIMAN wrote: »

Only point I disagree with you is about McGeady. Do you seriously think he is 'better' now? If those displays he put in in Poland are him being better...

You can't judge any individual Irish player based on performances in Poland - the collective performances have been too awful. But yes, I do think McGeady has improved - his final ball is far better than it used to be, although he does still try to do too much at times, beating the full back 3 or 4 times when once will suffice!

monkey9 wrote: »

Reading manager Brian McDermott has been over at the last two St Pat's matches, presumably to look at Chris Forrester.

Yeah, Forrester looks like the next candidate for the magic plane - fantastic technical ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCjIm8sk67Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ScLap9bSYU

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Under 16s is way too late.
We need 7/8 year olds playing "piggy in the middle" EVERY day for hours.
EVERY DAY!!!

It's football dude - there are more important things in life.

Father Damo

fryup wrote: »

this is how you do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSYzNZPbMs

How in the fcuk were Spain that shocking defensively until 2008? Its aa lovely chip but jesus that is like something Andorra would concede.

Believe it or not I never actually seen that goal before. If it wasnt for knowing that so many of their fans are so full of blind hatred you could nearly enjoy and support that one.:(

djpbarry

Father Damo wrote: »

How in the fcuk were Spain that shocking defensively until 2008?

Spain are still vulnerable at the back - Italy showed that, as did several other teams during qualifying.

noodler

aidan24326 wrote: »

Could you elaborate? What reports?

Yeah, what reports?

Orando Broom

noodler wrote: »

Yeah, what reports?

Sorry lads just saw this now. Tony O'Donoghue last night alluded to player dissatisfaction with the tactics and instructions. Jon Walters in particular said that he hadn't a clue what he was supposed to be doing when he came on. These were TO'D's words. I said it in a different thread that the bold Tony is a mischief maker par excellence and I think Liam Brady also referred to him and his reports.