Republic of Ireland vs España

eyescreamcone

fryup wrote: »

this is how you do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSYzNZPbMs

Norn Iron do have a goodish record against the Spanish.
In particular I'm thinking of the 1982 world cup.
But NI are now very much lightweights and have NO chance of ever qualifying until uefa bring in the 24 qualifiers.
And even then they will struggle to be competitive
Their best bet is to join up with UK as per the Olympics

Helix

Orando Broom wrote: »

Sorry lads just saw this now. Tony O'Donoghue last night alluded to player dissatisfaction with the tactics and instructions. Jon Walters in particular said that he hadn't a clue what he was supposed to be doing when he came on. These were TO'D's words. I said it in a different thread that the bold Tony is a mischief maker par excellence and I think Liam Brady also referred to him and his reports.

yeah

that blows saipan out of the water alright

Jelle1880

fryup wrote: »

this is how you do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSYzNZPbMs

It's odd how far they've fallen, I still remember them beating England deservedly in 2005.

[-0-]

djpbarry wrote: »

How teams in Ireland play really doesn’t explain what is happening with the national team – many LOI teams (forget about the standard for a second), for example, play excellent football. Go watch UCD, Ireland’s closest thing to a “farm” team – the ball never leaves the deck.

And nobody is going to convince me that the likes of Keane, Duff and McGeady are not capable of playing one and two-touch football. Sure, Duff and Keane might be past their best, but they are still technically good footballers.

In my opinion, one of the big problems (and it’s been a problem for a long time) is that Irish footballers are far too Premiership orientated in their ambitions. Young Irish players in particular. What I mean by that is that I would like to see Irish players looking further afield in search of first team football – great to see McGeady going to Russia, for example, and he looks a better player for it. Robbie going to LA is not exactly what I had in mind though. In the long run, I’d like to see players stay in Ireland until they’re at least 18 – they’re better off playing first team football here than sitting in some reserve reserve team somewhere in the UK (generally speaking – there will be exceptions). Then I’d like to see them consider options other than the UK to further their development.

Great points. I'm just thinking out loud here so sorry if this post is a bunch of gibberish. We have no control over their development when they leave Ireland. If we were to look into improving things "from the roots upwards", we would have a number of obstacles:
1. LOI isn't professional and the wages aren't great so good footballers go abroad.
2. In doing so, we lose control over their development.
3. When they go abroad they may not get regular football and it can actually ruin their career if they go over too soon.

We need a long, solid plan which tackles all of these obstacles, better coaching for kids/youths. Pretty much follow what Spain are doing with their kids.

monkey9

fryup

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Norn Iron do have a goodish record against the Spanish.
In particular I'm thinking of the 1982 world cup.
But NI are now very much lightweights and have NO chance of ever qualifying until uefa bring in the 24 qualifiers.
And even then they will struggle to be competitive
Their best bet is to join up with UK as per the Olympics

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It's odd how far they've fallen, I still remember them beating England deservedly in 2005.

had Laurie Sanhez not left to go to Fulham halfway through that campaign, i reckon NI would have qualified for euro 08

Orando Broom

Helix wrote: »

yeah

that blows saipan out of the water alright

No it doesn't. But it hasn't started yet either. This one is still percolating.

eyescreamcone

[/Quote]
had Laurie Sanhez not left to go to Fulham halfway through that campaign, i reckon NI would have qualified for euro 08[/Quote]

northern Ireland are working off too small a population. If they qualify once every 25 years it'll be a success. They are now on 26 years without qualification and their odds for brazil would be huge I'd imagine.

Also with us robbing their best Catholics they will be even weaker.
It won't be long before we start taking players from the unionist community and make them even weaker still

ColeTrain

It's not "robbing" them if they have Irish passports. Something a lot of Norn Iron supporters have difficulty in understanding.

eyescreamcone

ColeTrain wrote: »

It's not "robbing" them if they have Irish passports. Something a lot of Norn Iron supporters have difficulty in understanding.

True indeed.
Acquiring them so?

Neil3030

eyescreamcone wrote: »

True indeed.
Acquiring them so?

Playing? Selecting? What verb is used for the rest of the Irish team?

monkey9

eyescreamcone wrote: »

had Laurie Sanhez not left to go to Fulham halfway through that campaign, i reckon NI would have qualified for euro 08

northern Ireland are working off too small a population. If they qualify once every 25 years it'll be a success. They are now on 26 years without qualification and their odds for brazil would be huge I'd imagine.

Also with us robbing their best Catholics they will be even weaker.
It won't be long before we start taking players from the unionist community and make them even weaker still

Why would Unionists want to play for the Republic??

eyescreamcone

Isn't there some kind of FIFA ratification before they can play??
It's a little different to some lad from Athlone being selected.
Anyway I don't care how we get them once they improve the team and we should be trawling the USA and Australia also (as well as the UK )

eyescreamcone

[Quote/]
Why would Unionists want to play for the Republic??[/Quote]

they might want to play for a better team and boost their careers

Didn't Viera, born in Senegal, declare for France because they were a better side.

monkey9

eyescreamcone wrote: »

[Quote/]
Why would Unionists want to play for the Republic??

they might want to play for a better team and boost their careers

Didn't Viera, born in Senegal, declare for France because they were a better side.[/QUOTE]

But Viera grew up in France!! I seriously doubt a Unionist would declare for the Republic!

eyescreamcone

monkey9 wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

[Quote/]
Why would Unionists want to play for the Republic??

they might want to play for a better team and boost their careers

Didn't Viera, born in Senegal, declare for France because they were a better side.

But Viera grew up in France!! I seriously doubt a Unionist would declare for the Republic![/Quote]

Maybe not!
But have we asked any?

briany

Do players from the nationalistic Basque country play for Spain or do they play for the unaffiliated Basque side? I'd imagine if they are good enough they'll play for Spain. Same thing with Ireland. However I think that the thing most level headed NI supporters will take issue with is that there was, apparently, a sort of gentlemen's agreement between the FAI and IFA that the FAI would not actively seek to recruit players from NI which they believe the FAI has reneged upon.

I'm reading now about this news of rumblings of dissatisfaction amongst the players with regard to the tactics. In my opinion they can shut it because they've had 4 years to voice dissatisfaction and they always claimed to be 100 percent behind Trap. They haven't come out and said any of these kind of things at any other point, not even a hint of it. I know the players need to put on a good face but they seemed like a tightly knit and happy bunch and it's a pity how the knives seem to come out in the wake of a couple of bad losses and, really, could we not see those coming? Trap may not be the man to take Ireland forward but he stablised the ship, qualified the team for a major tournament and helped the team regain a little bit of spirit. His achievements must be recognised as much as his shortcomings IMO.

kitakyushu

briany wrote: »

Do players from the nationalistic Basque country play for Spain or do they play for the unaffiliated Basque side?

Alonso is one player who has played for both. I'm sure there'd be others too if the Spanish national team wasn't at such a high level.

monkey9

briany wrote: »

Do players from the nationalistic Basque country play for Spain or do they play for the unaffiliated Basque side? I'd imagine if they are good enough they'll play for Spain. Same thing with Ireland. However I think that the thing most level headed NI supporters will take issue with is that there was, apparently, a sort of gentlemen's agreement between the FAI and IFA that the FAI would not actively seek to recruit players from NI which they believe the FAI has reneged upon.

I'm reading now about this news of rumblings of dissatisfaction amongst the players with regard to the tactics. In my opinion they can shut it because they've had 4 years to voice dissatisfaction and they always claimed to be 100 percent behind Trap. They haven't come out and said any of these kind of things at any other point, not even a hint of it. I know the players need to put on a good face but they seemed like a tightly knit and happy bunch and it's a pity how the knives seem to come out in the wake of a couple of bad losses and, really, could we not see those coming? Trap may not be the man to take Ireland forward but he stablised the ship, qualified the team for a major tournament and helped the team regain a little bit of spirit. His achievements must be recognised as much as his shortcomings IMO.

Well, unless you've heard quotes and actual interviews, they still haven't voiced dissatisfaction!!! The things they haven't said at any other point still remains the same!! Nothing's changed!!

eagle eye

Just on the Basque thing, they don't have a Fifa affiliated team so they play for Spain or France depending on what part of the Basque they come from.

briany

monkey9 wrote: »

Well, unless you've heard quotes and actual interviews, they still haven't voiced dissatisfaction!!! The things they haven't said at any other point still remains the same!! Nothing's changed!!

When I say rumblings I mean gossip and journos reading into the what players are saying for a subtext there. Nobody has come out and said they don't believe in what Trap is doing yet but another hammering from Italy could push those who feel dissatisfaction toward the tipping point of full blown dissent. Jon Walters, for example, was quoted as saying he hadn't a clue what he was supposed to be doing when he came on v. Spain so that could be read into as a statement indicting the manager (or it could, to be fair, be an indictment of Trap's patchy English). I predict McGeady to be a prominent voice of the dissenters if any kind of player mutiny is to take place.

monkey9

briany wrote: »

When I say rumblings I mean gossip and journos reading into the what players are saying for a subtext there. Nobody has come out and said they don't believe in what Trap is doing yet but another hammering from Italy could push those who feel dissatisfaction toward the tipping point of full blown dissent. Jon Walters, for example, was quoted as saying he hadn't a clue what he was supposed to be doing when he came on v. Spain so that could be read into as a statement indicting the manager (or it could, to be fair, be an indictment of Trap's patchy English). I predict McGeady to be a prominent voice of the dissenters if any kind of player mutiny is to take place.

Well it's all heresay. You may as well be quoting Twitter to me!!

I say that as a non Trap fan by the way. I'd rather we had someone else leading us into the World Cup qualifiers!!

eyescreamcone

Trap is the man!
A playoff loss to France 2 years ago and qualification for Poland is success enough for me!!!

Do we want to go back to 5-2 hammerings to Cyprus???
How quickly we forget!!!







As regards the recruitment of NI born players - if they qualify to play for us we have a DUTY to chase them.
If the IFA moan - oral contract mate, not worth the paper it's written on!!!
We have no duty towards the IFA - none!!!

SantryRed

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Trap is the man!
A playoff loss to France 2 years ago and qualification for Poland is success enough for me!!!

Do we want to go back to 5-2 hammerings to Cyprus???

This is such a retarded argument. If you're going to use Staunton's reign as reference for the past then I'll use Jack Charltons. Trap isn't doing as well as jack so trap out!! :rolleyes:

Banjaxed82

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Do we want to go back to 5-2 hammerings to Cyprus???
How quickly we forget!!!

Just don't appoint Staunton again then.

The_Kew_Tour

Did anyone actually see Kenny Cunningham analysis last night of the Spain game?(it was on at start of program)

He showed 3-4 clips of times when Irish players actually put pressure on the Spanish high up the pitch last. The Spanish lost the ball and were made to look like us for that period.

Im not being stupid enough to think we would have got result and energy wise it may have taken its toll especially in last 20 minutes, but had we been more aggressive and started with more of pressure type of game we may have given the Spanish a half decent game and not the wimper we put on.

briany

monkey9 wrote: »

Well it's all heresay. You may as well be quoting Twitter to me!!

I say that as a non Trap fan by the way. I'd rather we had someone else leading us into the World Cup qualifiers!!

Many's the time twitter has been quoted and taken by the news media and general public as being as good as a spoken quote. If one of the Irish players was openly bashing the manager on Twitter you could be assured there'd be recrimination and rightly so as it's a public forum. Not that the Walters' quote was from Twitter though.....

I would be skeptical about Trap's suitability for taking Ireland forward as well but I also recognise the good things he has done for the team. It felt like the team was sliding toward a cliff edge in the years 2005-2007 and Trap halted that, regained a lot of respectability for the team and qualified for a major. However, if he does go now, the team can probably kiss hopes of WCQ goodbye as any new manager would need time to blood new talent and get them used to the system he'd play. Often during this period results get worse before they get better so it could be a sacrifice that will have to be made.

monkey9

When i say non Trap fan, i mean in terms of Ireland. He's a been a brilliant manager, a legend of the game. But himself and Ireland are not suited! They don't fit.

noodler

SantryRed wrote: »

This is such a retarded argument. If you're going to use Staunton's reign as reference for the past then I'll use Jack Charltons. Trap isn't doing as well as jack so trap out!! :rolleyes:

Agreed.

The solidity and shap added after the Stan campaign was fine for the first campaign.

We should be seeing greater progression at this stage.

edgecutter

eyescreamcone wrote: »

had Laurie Sanhez not left to go to Fulham halfway through that campaign, i reckon NI would have qualified for euro 08[/Quote]

northern Ireland are working off too small a population. If they qualify once every 25 years it'll be a success. They are now on 26 years without qualification and their odds for brazil would be huge I'd imagine.

Also with us robbing their best Catholics they will be even weaker.
It won't be long before we start taking players from the unionist community and make them even weaker still[/QUOTE]

They are Irish citizens born within a state that was created to appease a minority population in the whole of Ireland. They have every right to play for Ireland and as such I do believe that any Protestants born in the ROI should have a right to play for northern Ireland.

eyescreamcone

Not much chance of that happening.
Protestants in the ROI mostly play hockey and rugby


Anyways, we need to develop our own players plus add to this by getting ALL eligible players possible

inmyday

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Just don't appoint Staunton again then.

Easy as that!


But people are saying trap to be history. And he has 20+ trophies as a manager. I really believe if we do get rid of him, and get someone who is not a proven winner. We would go back to losing to the lesser teams in the near future.

Banjaxed82

inmyday wrote: »

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Just don't appoint Staunton again then.

Easy as that!


But people are saying trap to be history. And he has 20+ trophies as a manager. I really believe if we do get rid of him, and get someone who is not a proven winner. We would go back to losing to the lesser teams in the near future.

Mick McCarthy wasn't even remotely close to being a proven winner and he did alright, so don't think that arguement has much in it.

Anyway, I'm cool with Trap as long as he sees sense to blood new players, and by default, play those players in a system that promotes a positive approach.

monkey9

I'm sure there's plenty of managers out there that, whilst they'll never ever be anywhere near as good a manager as Trapattoni no matter what they do, they might just be better Irish managers than Trapattoni!

kitakyushu

monkey9 wrote: »

I'm sure there's plenty of managers out there that, whilst they'll never ever be anywhere near as good a manager as Trapattoni no matter what they do, they might just be better Irish managers than Trapattoni!

Agreed. You can't question Traps track record but I cannot believe that with the players available to us (and no I don't mean that boastfully or with pride) that we cannot come us with a better way of playing that will produce better results.

I think Trap made up his mind early on with Ireland that this group was rubbish and that was to be the end of it.