Voluntary ambulances forbidden from transporting anymore?

flazio

It may just be a case of making sure they go to the correct hospital for the injury presented. A volunteer unit might not know that straight out.

sgthighway

I can confirm as an active member of the Order of Malta I have not heard anything about this.

Mycroft H

sgthighway wrote: »

I can confirm as an active member of the Order of Malta I have not heard anything about this.

The only thing I've heard of this external of Boards.ie was an AP in our unit mentioning it to a few of us. We'll continue to transfer as normal as per CPG's.

As for the confusion as regarding A+Es, anyone who is transferring someone that there may be a chance that they may be sent to a differing hospital (ie a stroke etc..) should be ringing the A+E to see if its ok.

Mycroft H

A friend of mine linked me the memo that basically started this whole thing, it's up on NASRA's website if anyone wants a look.

http://www.nasra.ie/images/220612.pdf

Bigbear899

We would call ambulance control if we ever have to transfer and tell them who we are what the casualty is etc. Control will usually ask if we think we have the skills neccessary in order to transport and meet a hse ambo on the way. Other times there are no HSE vehicles available and so we would transport all the way. By Control asking this they are putting the call back on us.

Another example is I and another EMT recently transported a pt w/#tib/fib. pt was allergic to all pain relief we could administer and entonx was making the pt sick and so was was turned down after 5 mins. Pt had a pain score of 10 and so we called control requesting a paramedic or AP for pain relief but there were none available. and so we had to transport to Hospital with the pt in serious pain.

as we entered the city we got caugt in heavy traffic and slowed to a bare crawl, again controll was called requesting Paramedic or AP again there were none available. We eventually requested to upgrade to blues and twos in order to get through the traffic with the pt on a score of 10. Control came back saying that the Vol Org we are with is an organisation in its own right and that they can not give or withold permision to upgrade the call and to make the decision ourselves.
Ambulance Control will not take responsability for a vol org if they need to begin a transport.

iceage

If you were in an Ambulance I don't think anyone would have shot you for using your lights in that circumstance.

Bigbear899

Thats my point. But we are ment to look for permission from control to upgrade the call but they are not willing to give or not give permission.

iceage

You misunderstand.. I'd have stuck on the lights with or without Controls go ahead. If you have requested assistance and none is available and you have no choice but to transport a patient with a suspected lower leg fracture with a pain score of 10, not able to take entonox and you're sat in traffic.. I'd defy anyone to say you were in the wrong for using your lights and sirens on a marked Ambulance.

timmywex

Even if control denied permission in that instance id be on blue's. They are not my control and at all times the clinical lead has to evaluate the situation and decide appropriate care, not someone sitting on the other end of a phone attempting to understand the situation.

seven_eleven

Yeah, if control said no AP was available the first time you needed to work with what you had. You dont need controls permission to use your blues, you can use them whenever you deem appropriate, as long as you can back up that decision in the very unlikely event you need to.

Mycroft H

Just an FYI for OMAC people, there is a new transport policy in place in OMAC which gives guidance to this very situation. Something all practitioners should be aware of in the org. Give me a pm and I'll forward you a copy of it if needed...

19hz

BX 19 wrote: »

Just an FYI for OMAC people, there is a new transport policy in place in OMAC which gives guidance to this very situation. Something all practitioners should be aware of in the org. Give me a pm and I'll forward you a copy of it if needed...

Very progressive, great to see something being put into place.



On the earlier post, the decision to use lights and sirens should always be made by the attendant, hes the only thats dealing with the patient, not a dude sitting at a phone miles and miles away. Of course, the driver can always refuse this. (I've seen that happen and in some cases with good reasons)

Thats the way I was always thought and was generally accepted when we had patients.

Mycroft H

19hz wrote: »

Very progressive, great to see something being put into place.

Absolutely. It was a long time coming. Transporting, was for a long time a grey area with people transporting in the care of responders etc. Not a viable option. Now limited to attending practitioners only otherwise its a no-no. Driving standards is the next thing to be examined....

Pad33

iceage wrote: »

You misunderstand.. I'd have stuck on the lights with or without Controls go ahead. If you have requested assistance and none is available and you have no choice but to transport a patient with a suspected lower leg fracture with a pain score of 10, not able to take entonox and you're sat in traffic.. I'd defy anyone to say you were in the wrong for using your lights and sirens on a marked Ambulance.

The practice of vols using lights and sirens should be discouraged as most do not have proper training or experience to deal with the the hazards of driving under these conditions with the exception of vols who work within the emergency services

iceage

Pad33 wrote: »

The practice of vols using lights and sirens should be discouraged as most do not have proper training or experience to deal with the the hazards of driving under these conditions with the exception of vols who work within the emergency services

Hmm, and there's the crux. As of yet there is no blue-light driving course being implemented throughout the Voluntaries, I say as yet, I've heard that things are to change.

As to my point above, stuck in traffic the use of lights to alert other drivers to the need for you to get by to a Hospital should not be ruled out under certain circumstances, I am not suggesting using defensive driving techniques of course unless you are experienced or have been trained to do so.

Pad33 here made one post, and one post only since his existence on boards.

Forgive me if I consider less of his input than other, more active users, who post in the main ES forum as well.

As for blues, if you need them, know (have been trained) when to use them, and how to use them, use them. Forget some internet warriors looking over your shoulder.

seven_eleven

The way I see it is, all drivers need to be taken out for several spins in the vehicle first to get used to its size and weight, they should also be told to driver a lot more carefully.
You cant take a roundabout or speedbump like you normally would with a pt and medic in the back, so they need to know what its like to be in the back too.

Blues and sirens should only be used when needed. But still, you should only drive like you normally would, the only difference being cars will give way to you. Drivers shouldnt be afraid to use them if they have justification.

Some people have this notion that blues and sirens will magically make your vehicle turn into a race car. When in reality, its a lot different for a 3 ton ambulance.

Hopefully a drivers course will become available to the vols soon, and as far as I'm aware, there is at least one in development for the near future.
But in general, I think most vols are good with this, I've never seen or heard them being abused.

Pad33

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pad33 here made one post, and one post only since his existence on boards.

Forgive me if I consider less of his input than other, more active users, who post in the main ES forum as well.

As for blues, if you need them, know (have been trained) when to use them, and how to use them, use them. Forget some internet warriors looking over your shoulder.

Well seaslacker I do a lot of work in the voluntary sector and ive seen first hand the effect of going on blues and twos has on certain members ( red mist ) while im in the back treating a patient.

Dont get me wrong im not painting everyone with the same brush, but I definitely think that a lot more training needs to be given before someone drives on blues.

miju

Pad33 wrote: »

Dont get me wrong im not painting everyone with the same brush, but I definitely think that a lot more training needs to be given before someone drives on blues.

100% agree, I've seen many an occasion were a voluntary was handed the keys unfamiliar with the vehicle and told if you need blues just use them

iceage

In this day and age, I find it very difficult to believe that any CDO or OIC of any of the Voluntaries would sanction the handing over of keys to an unfamiliar vehicle to anybody Miju especially an Ambulance and anybody accepting said keys really needs their head examined.

Thankfully things have changed over the last few years and the training, experience and professionalism of said organisations has greatly improved considering the increased amount of work they are undertaking these days, never mind the implementation of stricter controls over the designated drivers of said vehicles.

seven_eleven

iceage wrote: »

In this day and age, I find it very difficult to believe that any CDO or OIC of any of the Voluntaries would sanction the handing over of keys to an unfamiliar vehicle to anybody Miju especially an Ambulance and anybody accepting said keys really needs their head examined.

Thankfully things have changed over the last few years and the training, experience and professionalism of said organisations has greatly improved considering the increased amount of work they are undertaking these days, never mind the implementation of stricter controls over the designated drivers of said vehicles.

While it is true that a lot of units have become quite professional and good at the work they do, I think you underestimate how bad some units can be

miju

iceage wrote: »

In this day and age, I find it very difficult to believe that any CDO or OIC of any of the Voluntaries would sanction the handing over of keys to an unfamiliar vehicle to anybody Miju especially an Ambulance and anybody accepting said keys really needs their head examined.

I've seen it countless times present and past.