Reloading

johnfaul

anyone heard any updates on this?
its becoming a bit of a joke now i wonder if it will ever come in

EWQuinn

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78252348

In this thread the Moderator describes a current F Class pilot project for reloading. But perhaps you are referring to other legislation/regulations that have been proposed or pending at some point? I sure hope you can get it off the ground. Its a great hobby and can greatly improve your sport.

As I always warn, it consumes time. It does allow for increased accuracy over factory cartridges in certain applications. This is very true for the high quality bolt action rifles that Irish shooters are using for hunting & target work. While I see some impressive shot groups posted here with factory ammo (including Federal American Eagle!), my own experience is that for any high quality rifle (one that can tell the difference), I can make ammo that shoots better than factory.

One stark example, my Ruger No. 1 single shot rifle. There are 2 kinds of Ruger No. 1s, them that shoots and them that don't. The internet is loaded with witchcraft remedies to get one to group well. However if you get a "bad" one, you can often fix the problem by custom reloading. Mine in .243 groups very poorly with factory ammunition. Reloads cut the shot groups by 1/2 - 2/3 depending on bullet weight, and allow me to hunt accurately and ensure humane shot placement on game.

Cass

EWQuinn wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78252348

In this thread the Moderator describes a current F Class pilot project for reloading. But perhaps you are referring to other legislation/regulations that have been proposed or pending at some point? I sure hope you can get it off the ground. Its a great hobby and can greatly improve your sport.

The MNSCI/NRAI applied for and got a pilot reloading scheme to allow our F-Class shooters (only) to effectively compete on an international level. This scheme applies only to the lads taking part in F-Class shooting within the midlands. The regulations needed to get it were neither easy or cheap, but we persevered and got it.

My thoughts on the matter are the same now as in that thread. With reloading alive, and being used it can only work as an example of how we can use reloading safely, and effectively which hopefully in time will spread to all.

As for the state of reloading to everyone. There was rumours of new legislation being drafted in July/August of this year, but so far i have heard nothing, and will just have to wait. What i do know is there is a new explosive bill being drafted, but as to when ,and in what format it will take i don't know.

EWQuinn

"My thoughts on the matter are the same now as in that thread. With reloading alive, and being used it can only work as an example of how we can use reloading safely, and effectively which hopefully in time will spread to all."

I am quite confident that the ROI could someday establish a very effective certification program with a cadre of trained instructors from the competitive shooting community. Between driving & walking roads daily, working on house & property and the job, reloading is one of the safer activities I do. Once well trained, reloaders police themselves quite well. Working with properly stored and packaged components is exceptionally safe and reliable. I sincerely hope you get there someday.

Grizzly 45

Theres more than enough certification and paperwork out there in this sport without adding ANOTHER layer of it to our sports.:( There is plenty of info out there on how to reload safley on youtube,books,DVDs online,etc.Unless you are a complete sloppy klutz who has the attention span of a chicken ,reloading is as safe as putting petrol in your car tank.

Certifying anything only gives Govt types an excuse to grab more monies onto the item and gives unscrouplous people if self policed an excuse to coin it in off their fellows,and set themselves up as the one and onlies with a monopoly[HCAP springs to mind].Especially in this country.:(:(

After seeing how this course is taught in Germany by the revelant goverment body governing explosives..two thirds is non applicable to anyone doing any kind of reloading or BP shooting. Its all 14 hours of bumpf about UN classification of explosive materials,their properties,transporting high explosives and storing them etc.Like gelignite,Anfoand commercial demolition explosive etc.And about an hour on the actual process of re loading a shell!:rolleyes:

Want to keep it to an hour or so fine...but dont pad it out to a whole week of nonsense with info no one will ever need here.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Theres more than enough certification and paperwork out there in this sport without adding ANOTHER layer of it to our sports.:( There is plenty of info out there on how to reload safley on youtube,books,DVDs online,etc.Unless you are a complete sloppy klutz who has the attention span of a chicken ,reloading is as safe as putting petrol in your car tank.

Certifying anything only gives Govt types an excuse to grab more monies onto the item and gives unscrouplous people if self policed an excuse to coin it in off their fellows,and set themselves up as the one and onlies with a monopoly[HCAP springs to mind].Especially in this country.:(:(

After seeing how this course is taught in Germany by the revelant goverment body governing explosives..two thirds is non applicable to anyone doing any kind of reloading or BP shooting. Its all 14 hours of bumpf about UN classification of explosive materials,their properties,transporting high explosives and storing them etc.Like gelignite,Anfoand commercial demolition explosive etc.And about an hour on the actual process of re loading a shell!:rolleyes:

Want to keep it to an hour or so fine...but dont pad it out to a whole week of nonsense with info no one will ever need here.

THIS is the very best post I've read about reloading on this forum - EVER.
Tens of millions of shooters reload safely without any kind of permit, certification, plaque on the wall, overseer or any other form of limitation.

Quite why so much is being made of the process in Ireland has always been beyond me, as the laws of physics are the same everywhere.

tac

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

THIS is the very best post I've read about reloading on this forum - EVER.
Tens of millions of shooters reload safely without any kind of permit, certification, plaque on the wall, overseer or any other form of limitation.

Quite why so much is being made of the process in Ireland has always been beyond me, as the laws of physics are the same everywhere.

tac

Yeah, but this is ireland tac , the land of nonsense and bu*****t , apart from the government seeing another way to screw money out of us, we'll have the usual self appointed captain mainwarings wanting to (a) monopolise reloading (b) make a few bob as well sure why not.
And if you don't have the abcdefg's Association cert on your wall and photo in this months shooters indigestion getting said cert , you couldn't possibly be competent at reloading.

Glensman

You are of course right, I myself reload and have no certification.

But just to play devils advocate. SACS up here run a very good reloading course; that gets you a certificate and is aimed towards the hunter.

I have not sat the course, but after doing their deer stalking course I'm sure it would be very informative to the majority of people getting into reloading.

tac foley

Sir - just a a matter of purely academic interest, what does the certificate certify you to do?

AFAIK, the BDS does not require you to have such a certificate and I've never heard of such a certificate being necessary.

I have been a reloader since 1968, and currently reload around a thousand rounds a years in seven different calibres.

tac

Glensman

tac foley wrote: »

Sir - just a a matter of purely academic interest, what does the certificate certify you to do?

AFAIK, the BDS does not require you to have such a certificate and I've never heard of such a certificate being necessary.

I have been a reloader since 1968, and currently reload around a thousand rounds a years in seven different calibres.

tac

It doesn't certify you to 'do' anything.

As you know reloading in the UK is not certified. This cert is to show that you have completed a reloading safety course. The course outlines how to reload safely and gives shooters the opportunity to ask questions of more experienced reloaders, gain hands-on experience and get some tips on load development, head selection etc.

NB: I have not completed this course! I was told all about it when I was doing their Deer Stalking Course.

I learnt reloading by watching DVDs and reading the books, then my mates learnt from me. Others might not have people to learn from and there is a lot of stuff covered in the books/dvds that the average reloader will Never use.

tac foley

Thank you, Sir, for the explanation.

tac
Life Member NRA

Longranger

This may have already been done but hey,you'd never know. How about every RFD in the country puts a petition form on the counter and the shooters sign it! No online crap as most of the shooters i know wouldn't bother with the computer. I will then pass it on to my local td's (enda kenny and michael ring,minister of state for sport) and i'll also pass it to the justice minister. Just a good old fashioned paper petition. I would love to try and organise it but would all you guys and more sign it? It's probably a shot in the dark but you don't know until you try. Other groups do it,some successfully so why don't we give it a try? I'll do the printing and posting but i'll need help. Anyone interested?
LR

Mike87

No offence. Its actually nice to see someone wanting to get off their arse, but I cant see it working.

Only shooters (maybe some fishermen) will sign it. Im not sure what those numbers will be. But I bet it wont be a whole lot. Even if you take the amount of firearms in the country and then assume that most people who have 1 firearm then go on to get a second and maybe even a third and fourth. And then how many of those people even regularly go to a dealers. I know for myself I stockpile as much ammunition as I can get and then buy everything else online... only setting foot in a dealers a few times a year. And even then I usually order over the phone and get him to post.

How many (for want of a better term) "worthwhile" causes got 1000's of signatures from all different people in society and nothing happened.

Personally I think its best to stick with the pilot scheme. GIve it a year or two, see about getting other ranges setup with something similar and then hopefully after a few years we could transition to private reloading at home. Obviously it would take a long time for that kind of transition- but I imagine its the best route for success.

Longranger

Fair enough lad,but would it do any harm to try. The attitude of "sure we'll wait and see how it goes" is grand,but lets try to buck the trend and see if the people that we(well,some people) elected will listen. I'm going to try it anyway but i'd like a bit of back-up.

rowa

You have to ask also do dealers want reloading in the republic anyway ? They are able to charge some pretty steep prices especially for centrefire rifle hunting ammunition, they mightn't want to undermine their own business.

Witcher

The only thing I've wondered about the pilot scheme in the Midlands or any future pilot schemes at other ranges is that...what are the chances that reloading might be restricted to F-Class shooters and other target shooters since they can demonstrate a benefit with improved results but hunters haven't got a pilot scheme to show the benefits to their section of the community, so could the DOJ come along and say 'Target shooters can have it but not hunters'?

johngalway

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Certifying anything only gives Govt types an excuse to grab more monies onto the item and gives unscrouplous people if self policed an excuse to coin it in off their fellows,and set themselves up as the one and onlies with a monopoly[HCAP springs to mind].Especially in this country.:(:(

It'll also keep another civil serpent in a job :rolleyes:

I asked an elected politician last year about reloading, got intercepted by a hanger on councillor with a dramatic "butcanthepowderbeusedtomakeapipebomb?????" intervention.

Teach me for picking wrong time to ask.

Longranger

rowa wrote: »

You have to ask also do dealers want reloading in the republic anyway ? They are able to charge some pretty steep prices especially for centrefire rifle hunting ammunition, they mightn't want to undermine their own business.

I think they would. Powder,primers,brass,bullets,measuring gear,tumblers etc, anyway,the majority of occasional shooters wouldn't bother so there would still be plenty of guys buying factory ammo.

Mike87

Longranger wrote: »

Fair enough lad,but would it do any harm to try. The attitude of "sure we'll wait and see how it goes" is grand,but lets try to buck the trend and see if the people that we(well,some people) elected will listen. I'm going to try it anyway but i'd like a bit of back-up.

Not saying I wont support you. Far from it.

Im just saying, in my opinion, its a huge waste of time.

And Im not saying sit around "see what happens".

Im saying. GIve the midlands another year or two, and once they have demonstrated there was no accidents, no problems, no mad IRA stuff going on, then we put it to the the DOJ that other ranges should also be allowed to do it- then once all the ranges are doing it- give it a few more years and then put a case forward for civillians.

I wasnt involved in midlands, but I was told from a reliable source that there was lot of blood, sweat and tears went into getting that pilot scheme up and going. And I dont anything has changed that much that since the scheme that a list of names is going do much good.

rowa

When i felt the lack of reloading most was when i had a centrefire pistol , i spent some amount of money popping away on a sunday morning , but now i only shoot rimfire so it doesn't bother me so much on that front , where it would be good for centrefore rifle shooters is the ability to tailor rounds to your rifle or game to be shot.

Mike87

Longranger wrote: »

I think they would. Powder,primers,brass,bullets,measuring gear,tumblers etc, anyway,the majority of occasional shooters wouldn't bother so there would still be plenty of guys buying factory ammo.

Sorry to be so pessimistic with your idea (just trying to be realistic)

But the reloading gear itself is a one off purchase. And people would probably buy off the internet. And even if they didnt its still only a quick, never to be repeated profit.

And the dealers would be forced to drop ammo prices prices.. Why?

Lets be honest here.

If theres a chap in the club loading his own and selling them for half the price the dealer is charging (under the counter of course), and these bullets are more accurate- do you buy from the person in the club- or do you go back to the dealer and buy his exhorbitant priced factory rubbish...??

I think its far better for dealers the way things are right now.

Chiparus

I used to reload my own when i was abroad. To be honest there was not much of a saving when compared to the PPU ammo.

.243

rowa wrote: »

You have to ask also do dealers want reloading in the republic anyway ? They are able to charge some pretty steep prices especially for centrefire rifle hunting ammunition, they mightn't want to undermine their own business.

i really cant see the problem in them stocking reloading comsumables to sell,a sale is a sale and it brings customers into your shop that you probably never had before
as far as i can see it they'd be pretty stupid not to stock stuff that will sell alongside regular ammunition therefore you are covering all aspects of the shooting community

ormondprop

I think too many people are reading too much into reloading, even if it did become legal i dont think i'd bother.
The startup cost, all the time making the rounds, testing different bullets, powder combinations, trying to find the best round and then the time involved making up all the rounds to go hunting, with all the time involved and for the amount of rounds i shoot a year i dont think it would be cost effective for me, i find it hard to find time to go shooting not to mind reloading beforehand, and i reckon a lot of hunters would be the exact same, its different for guys shooting competetively though

Being realistic here and maybe a few of the northern irish or english guys here can answer this, how much would it cost to reload say a .204 with a 39gr sierra bk bullet? Would you save much compared to the factory federal?

Grizzly 45

johngalway wrote: »

It'll also keep another civil serpent in a job :rolleyes:

I asked an elected politician last year about reloading, got intercepted by a hanger on councillor with a dramatic "butcanthepowderbeusedtomakeapipebomb?????" intervention.

Teach me for picking wrong time to ask.

Should have answerd No they use illegal semtex that was supposed to be decomissioned 15 years ago":rolleyes:

The best way to counter the drama queens is to have better info than they have,tell them there is more easily made explosives in a domestic households kitchen cupboard,medicine cabinet and tool shed.So maybe we had better look at banning Aspirin and common household bleach:eek::rolleyes:.
There is no inmho right or wrong time to ask an Irish politico on the question of firearms or reloading,it is always the wrong time.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Should have answerd No they use illegal semtex that was supposed to be decomissioned 15 years ago":rolleyes:

The best way to counter the drama queens is to have better info than they have,tell them there is more easily made explosives in a domestic households kitchen cupboard,medicine cabinet and tool shed.So maybe we had better look at banning Aspirin and common household bleach:eek::rolleyes:.
There is no inmho right or wrong time to ask an Irish politico on the question of firearms or reloading,it is always the wrong time.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You forgot the local petrol station griz , the crims would use that if the government didn't have such a high tax on it.

Grizzly 45

ormondprop wrote: »

I think too many people are reading too much into reloading, even if it did become legal i dont think i'd bother.
The startup cost, all the time making the rounds, testing different bullets, powder combinations, trying to find the best round and then the time involved making up all the rounds to go hunting, with all the time involved and for the amount of rounds i shoot a year i dont think it would be cost effective for me, i find it hard to find time to go shooting not to mind reloading beforehand, and i reckon a lot of hunters would be the exact same, its different for guys shooting competetively though

Being realistic here and maybe a few of the northern irish or english guys here can answer this, how much would it cost to reload say a .204 with a 39gr sierra bk bullet? Would you save much compared to the factory federal?

Buy a LEE hand loader and the dies for your caliber,its the cheapest and easiest method to start reloading.Costs about 40 USD on Flea Bay:)
If you were only reloading hunting ammo or experimenting with a few different rounds,a can of powder a box of primers a bullet puller and a few different bullet heads wont break the bank on you,and lets you see if this is for you or not.

johnfaul

johngalway wrote: »

It'll also keep another civil serpent in a job :rolleyes:

I asked an elected politician last year about reloading, got intercepted by a hanger on councillor with a dramatic "butcanthepowderbeusedtomakeapipebomb?????" intervention.

Teach me for picking wrong time to ask.

this is what annoys me that up north were we all know what went on years ago are allowed to reload and down here they automatically associate it with bombs.

Glensman

johnfaul wrote: »

this is what annoys me that up north were we all know what went on years ago are allowed to reload and down here they automatically associate it with bombs.

That's because the IRA didn't re-load :rolleyes:

johngalway

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Should have answerd No they use illegal semtex that was supposed to be decomissioned 15 years ago":rolleyes:

The best way to counter the drama queens is to have better info than they have,tell them there is more easily made explosives in a domestic households kitchen cupboard,medicine cabinet and tool shed.So maybe we had better look at banning Aspirin and common household bleach:eek::rolleyes:.
There is no inmho right or wrong time to ask an Irish politico on the question of firearms or reloading,it is always the wrong time.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I was going to reply that if "You lot (pols) actually went about making some laws with balls so the criminals could be effectively locked up then we wouldn't have to be concerned about being robbed in our own homes", but thought that may sour the conversation a little.

tomcat220t

rowa wrote: »

You have to ask also do dealers want reloading in the republic anyway ? They are able to charge some pretty steep prices especially for centrefire rifle hunting ammunition, they mightn't want to undermine their own business.

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