Reloading

rowa

Hopefully when reloading is finally allowed, some common sense will prevail and we'll be able to licence muzzle loading large calibre revolvers and pistols. I'd would love to be able to shoot a ruger old army (preferably in stainless) every week, they are about as far from an evil black glock as is possible to get. No criminal would use one in a crime as they'd never live down using something that looks so old.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6OF6n4i3Ug

tac foley

Mr Grizzly - I apologise to one and all for missing out Germany - I'll admit that it's a long time since I lived there. I never had to do anything of the sort in any of the places where we lived. In those heady days of freedom the possession of a Waffenbesitzkarte and Waffenerlaubnis were proof enough that you were sane and sensible enough to make your own ammunition.

However, I've since done a thorough check, and it would seem that Germany is alone there.

It does not, however, 'change the price of fish', and if I was a betting man I'd bet on the new legsislation - if and when it ever comes into being - will be a total hames/horlicks/mess, based as it is on re-writing the laws of physics and mistrust.

I am more than happy to eat any amount of crow pie if I'm wrong.

tac

Grizzly 45

Mike87 wrote: »

Not trying to start a row here,

BUT

If the DOJ said that they would give the green light for reloading but we all had to do a course/get a seperate licence/pay a fee. I for one would take hand and all.

I dont see a problem with courses. Its the same as the HCAP or that meat handling course they have now. Its a one off thing, it doesnt even cost that much, and at the very worst you will walk away not having learned anything and not having made any new contacts. I really dont know why people get so uppety about them.

I'll answer that Mike,for the simple few reasons.Taking those two examples
...
HCAP,privately run,virtual monopoly,no course of redress or appeal bar to the people running of it ,set up for a semi state body to cover insurance of shooting on their lands,yet now seeking to expand their authorithy totally outside their remit..Course is considerd a joke by those who have done it,expensive,jobs for the old boys, and dragged out with ridicilous carry on on the shooting range [IE people shooting wrong targets,everyone firing at once etc,anywhere else it is one at a time in a set time limit].

Meat handling course,expensive,and still does not perform the function of allowing you to sell game without the game dealer clause.Somthing our EU fellow hunters do not labour under.They can sell directly from gun to table.And they have to virtually set up a butchering facility to do this.

So what we will have here will be a load of fluff and BS that costs alot..Have you ever seen anything cheap here in courses recently??? With a good chance of you failing it to be able to resit it at cost...Seems to be a SOP in Ireland from everything from the NCT to your drivers liscense.
I couldnt see it being any different with this here.:(

From what I got on this from a source from the DOJ appx 10/12 months ago is the following....
Its in the pipeline and should be out this year somtime.
It will be a club thing .IOW reloading at your club only or if you have alot of open free and secure space around your house.
I dont think you will be allowed reloading if you live in an apartment block.
TBH neither are you in Germany either.The storage facilities I think will be the biggie for us here.I think it will be pretty complex and almost on the level of building a powder magazine.Will that be worth it for reloading 20 deer rounds PA??
Nor will you be allowed to reload for others,sensible enough I guess.
You accidently give somone a super hot load in their calibre and the gun explodes,you as the reloader are in a spot of bother.

As for certifying it,they are, or were of the opinion learn it at your own cost by whatever means.

NOTE ...This is 12 months old info.So please folks dont take it as gospel..
The source is exellent,but the timeframe might have changed ideas and legislation.So Cevat emptor .

tac foley

rowa wrote: »

Hopefully when reloading is finally allowed, some common sense will prevail and we'll be able to licence muzzle loading large calibre revolvers and pistols. I'd would love to be able to shoot a ruger old army (preferably in stainless) every week, they are about as far from an evil black glock as is possible to get. No criminal would use one in a crime as they'd never live down using something that looks so old.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6OF6n4i3Ug

Or this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udFjks8FAZ4

tac

tac foley

Mr Grizzly - nobody I know, including me, gives ANYBODY their reloaded ammunition to shoot, except when they let you shoot their own gun. I'm not about to shoot anybody's reloads, and I 'trust' everybody to get it right, too.

tac, who shot 80 reloads this morning, having made them up last night.

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Mr Grizzly - I apologise to one and all for missing out Germany - I'll admit that it's a long time since I lived there. I never had to do anything of the sort in any of the places where we lived. In those heady days of freedom the possession of a Waffenbesitzkarte and Waffenerlaubnis were proof enough that you were sane and sensible enough to make your own ammunition.

However, I've since done a thorough check, and it would seem that Germany is alone there.

tac

That has been a spell ago...Waffen erlaubnis karten are like platinium hens teeth fillings these days.They are the equivlent of a CCWP,and to get one of those you need to prove that you are a person in extreme danger or are working in the security industry,like bodygaurding [somone on the level of Frau Merkel maybe:rolleyes:].
I bet when you were there it was still possible to buy a .22lr rifle /handgun over the counter or black powder gun,and powder presslings ???

Before Mr Andreas Baader and Miss Ulrike Meinhoff buggered up a pretty liberal situation of German gun laws.:mad:
Up to such a point that there are now more illegally held guns than legally liscensed firearms in Germany.[BKa stats 1996].


Only reason I mentioned reloaded ammo being for sale was that you can buy it Stateside at gunshows.
Like a 50 cal surplus box full for 25 dollars.:eek:
Of which I once shot an entire can of with no trouble at all.But I was younger and not as smart as I am now!:D
And no doubt some ejit would consider doing this to make a fast euro over here where it possible.

Cass

No matter how i put it my point seems lost on you so i'll say it once more in the hope i can clarify it.

tac foley wrote: »

I am not detracting from the amount of effort by the best shooters in the country that it took to get what little reloading exists, simply pointing out that for the other 233,080 license-holders, there is none.

If the pilot reloading scheme was NOT sought or given then there would be no reloading AT ALL. As i said earlier it's more than forty, but as the only organisation to get reloading had they refused or did not apply then the DoJ would view it as no one being interested therefore no pilot scheme given, and instead of this thread, and multiple threads prior to this, where people are impatient, complaining or giving out about not having reloading YET, they wouldn't even have that "hope" or option.

They would instead be dreaming of what could have been. So the fact that only a small minority of people are currently reloading at least it's still alive with an opportunity to build, and develop on it to the benefit of everyone.

juice1304 wrote: »

The scheme has been going on for quite some time now and only benefits very few people.

The scheme was sought by those that needed it for F-Class, and is being used by those that shoot F-Class. So who else is it supposed to benefit?

It's not fair and unconstitutional imo, What make your shooting anymore important than mine? It's all personal prospective.

Unconstitutional! As i said before you have no constitutional (or any legal) right to firearms, which includes reloading. So that is that out the window.

As for fair, and your other points. I once again am forced to repeat myself not only on this thread but on previous threads. Only one NGB/organisation applied for reloading. EVERY other one refused it. So as fish slapped said why not ask any NGB/organisation you are a member of why they refused reloading on your behalf without consulting or asking you instead of scornfull remarks towards those that did apply, and worked damn hard to get which, and this is the funny part if it weren't so serious, will be the example the DoJ refer to when considering should everyone get reloading.

I think there is a bit of a need for some table banging,

Go ahead. All it'll do is alienate the PTB. It never worked in the past, and i highly doubt it'll work now. They hold all the cards so any demands will be met with contempt.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So what we will have here will be a load of fluff and BS that costs alot..Have you ever seen anything cheap here in courses recently??? With a good chance of you failing it to be able to resit it at cost...Seems to be a SOP in Ireland from everything from the NCT to your drivers liscense.
I couldnt see it being any different with this here.:(

Everyone currently reloading in the pilot scheme sat both a safety, and introductory course. Both lasted an hour, and were free. The course is still being done the same, and is still free.

So any abuse will be at the hands of other bodies that take it upon themselves to declare themselves "experts", and then they try to milk it.

From what I got on this from a source from the DOJ appx 10/12 months ago is the following....

No disrespect intended, but i've heard from people how they got information through a "source", and, well putting it politely, they must have been looking into a mirror for their source. One such person told me TRG's would be banned as military weapons, and that i could kiss mine goodbye because his source at the DoJ told him so.

No one can tell what is coming. Even if a bill has been drafted by the time it is changed, edited, re-worded, gone through the Seanad, etc a few times, then eventually signed off on it will look nothing like the original draft. So waiting is the only option.

juice1304

I did'nt say anything about having the right to own a firearm, But I do have the right to be treated the same as you, I may not be shooting F-class but I don't see why that should make any difference.[by the way i would if i could afford it] Your shooting is important to you and mine is important to me. Neither are more important based on the distance/comp or if it is hunting or target. I would just like to see thing the same for everyone and not just for some. If they do only bring it in for clubs, Is it then right that non members can't?

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN
FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
Personal Rights
Article 40
1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

Grizzly 45

Ezridax wrote: »

No disrespect intended, but i've heard from people how they got information through a "source",

PM sent.;)

fish slapped

juice1304 wrote: »

I did'nt say anything about having the right to own a firearm, But I do have the right to be treated the same as you, I may not be shooting F-class but I don't see why that should make any difference.[by the way i would if i could afford it] Your shooting is important to you and mine is important to me. Neither are more important based on the distance/comp or if it is hunting or target. I would just like to see thing the same for everyone and not just for some. If they do only bring it in for clubs, Is it then right that non members can't?

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN
FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
Personal Rights
Article 40
1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

And you had the right to apply through your shooting club/association or to take part on the pilot scheme ... Which you have not done ...

Some people just love lemons ...

juice1304

fish slapped wrote: »

Which you have not done ...

Some people just love lemons ...

And how would you know what I have and have'nt said or done?:rolleyes:

Cass

juice1304 wrote: »

I did'nt say anything about having the right to own a firearm,

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN
FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
Personal Rights
Article 40
1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

See the highlighted bits. That's why i said you don't have a right to a firearm. So the fact you didn't say it doesn't matter. When you say it's uncontitutional it means it goes against your rights. In relation to firearms you have none.

But I do have the right to be treated the same as you, I may not be shooting F-class but I don't see why that should make any difference.[by the way i would if i could afford it] Your shooting is important to you and mine is important to me. Neither are more important based on the distance/comp or if it is hunting or target. I would just like to see thing the same for everyone and not just for some.

Yes you do have the right to the same basic human rights as me or anyone else. As firearms, and reloading, etc are not a constitutional issue the point is moot. No right to firearms means the DoJ/Gardaí can impose any restrictions, limitations or conditions they see fit on a person by person or group by group basis.

I'm not a consitutional lawyer or anything so excuse the crude wording, but i hope i'm getting the point across.

If they do only bring it in for clubs, Is it then right that non members can't?

Right? Probably not.
Fair? Probably not either.
Legal? - Yes.

Grizzly45 wrote:

PM sent.

Replied to.

fish slapped

If you want to reload ... You have to follow the existing procedures ... Simple

If I want to own a firearm ... I must follow the existing procedures...

The only right I have to either is the right to apply ...

So apply ... Instead of being vindictive towards those that did ...

Grizzly 45

juice1304 wrote: »

I
CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN
FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
Personal Rights
Article 40
1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

Going by the last almost 100 years of this sorry little place.This article has been violated God knows how many times in so many various legal ways that the law smiths of the land make a fortune out of defending and applying it.:rolleyes:
If you actually sit down and read our constitution,as everyone should.You will find that it is a [1] major brain ache [2] contradictory on some terms [3] has a limited human right aspect [4]consists more of govtmental procedure on what the houses of Dail and Senad should consist of to be legal[ 5] not easily changed without refenda,as it is unlike the US constitution a non living document .
So ,yes you might have that "right" of equality under the constitution,but the LAW says you might not have that right in certain circumstances of equality.
Summed up nicely in "All animals are equal,but some are more equal than others.":(

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

My meaning was easy to comprehend, - by comparison with the [2008 figures] 233,120 licensed firearms owners in the RoI, the forty or so ARE a minuscule percentage.

If all you're doing is counting heads, yes, they're a miniscule percentage.
Same way that pistol shooters are a miniscule percentage.

But in terms of legislation, they're not miniscule; they're precedent.

It's a bit difficult to over-estimate the importance of that reloading programme to getting reloading back into the ROI.

And yes, it's taking a long time to sort everything out. That's legislation, not lollygagging. I've literally lost track of the number of times I've said this on here - changing legislation is a slow, unsexy process comprised of nothing but hard thankless work that requires continuous commitment and patience.

Writing to your TD helps. Table-thumping just sets things back and requires even more patience and hard work on the part of the 2% doing the heavy lifting, work that's not spent pushing things forward, but on damage control to stop the table-thumping sinking the entire enterprise.

Sparks

johngalway wrote: »

What do they have to know other than the price they buy it at, the price they sell it at and any regulations they need to comply with.

Best guess is that they figure if there's no mandatory courses/licencing/training or whatever for those who will reload, then the dealers who sell the kit and supplies better be able to give good advice, to avoid legal liability from accidents through due diligence if nothing else.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Going by the last almost 100 years of this sorry little place.This article has been violated God knows how many times in so many various legal ways that the law smiths of the land make a fortune out of defending and applying it.:rolleyes:

Yes, but not in this case.

We've argued this point before Grizzly; if you have a centerfire pistol today and I don't, it's not because I was treated unequally by the law; it's because you applied for one when the law allowed the licence to be granted and I didn't.

That's not inequality; that's just me not doing the legwork that you did.

Same thing (the exact same thing) is going on here; the Midlands shooters came together, made a proposal to the PTB, sank tens of thousands of their own euros into that effort, and are now running a pilot programme that is the best hope anyone has of seeing reloading come back to the ROI; and people are complaining that they can't reload yet and saying it's unfair and unequal - those same people had every bit as much right to apply to the PTB as the Midlands shooters did; they just didn't do it. That's not inequality; that's not doing the work and bitching when someone else's work pays off even though they stand to get exactly what they want because of that payoff anyway.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you actually sit down and read our constitution,as everyone should.You will find that it is a [1] major brain ache [2] contradictory on some terms [3] has a limited human right aspect [4]consists more of govtmental procedure on what the houses of Dail and Senad should consist of to be legal[ 5] not easily changed without refenda,as it is unlike the US constitution a non living document

Suffering cats Grizz.

[1] Yeah, law's hard. It's why it's a profession and why you see people studying it academically.

[2] You might want to keep reading; I'm pretty sure there aren't any major contradictions in there.

[3] Correct. That's why the ECHJ is so important. Of course, compared to its peers, it is (on paper at least), far better than most.

[4] THAT'S WHAT'S MEANT TO BE IN THERE. If you put the procedures on how to run the Dail in an Act, where the Dail could change them at will, you'd get a week before they'd vote themselves in as the Dail-for-life with million-euro salaries and pensions at 150% of their 'working' wage!

Well.

Maybe two weeks, you'd have to get them to actually work at it after all...

[5] IT IS A LIVING DOCUMENT. More so than the US constitution - we've seen more changes to ours than they have to theirs in the last fifty years. Hell, the next change is only a few months away, adding in the rights-for-children amendment, and the last two were only last October. We've had 30 attempted changes since we wrote the bloody thing, and we-the-people have rejected 10 of those attempted changes (and four never got past the "hey, should we do this?" stage in the Dail).

C'mon Grizz, we can't just go complaining about stuff like this in public without doing our homework properly - it makes us all look like we have no idea what we're on about when we go talk to the PTB about changing the legislation that directly impacts on us!

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That has been a spell ago...Waffen erlaubnis karten are like platinium hens teeth fillings these days.They are the equivlent of a CCWP,and to get one of those you need to prove that you are a person in extreme danger or are working in the security industry,like bodygaurding [somone on the level of Frau Merkel maybe:rolleyes:].
I bet when you were there it was still possible to buy a .22lr rifle /handgun over the counter or black powder gun,and powder presslings ???

Before Mr Andreas Baader and Miss Ulrike Meinhoff buggered up a pretty liberal situation of German gun laws.:mad:
Up to such a point that there are now more illegally held guns than legally liscensed firearms in Germany.[BKa stats 1996].


Only reason I mentioned reloaded ammo being for sale was that you can buy it Stateside at gunshows.
Like a 50 cal surplus box full for 25 dollars.:eek:
Of which I once shot an entire can of with no trouble at all.But I was younger and not as smart as I am now!:D
And no doubt some ejit would consider doing this to make a fast euro over here where it possible.

Yes, I quit Germany for good in March 1986, after nine years there. We had lived in Rheindahlen, and then had three years with BRIXMIS [google it]. I then got commissioned and went to Laarbruch on fast jet reconnaissance as the OO, then back to Ireland again, back to Germany, and then here for a while.

No matter where we have lived - Norway, Germany, Sweden, Finland, UK, at home in Canada or the US of A, I've been a reloader and BP shooter. I guess that is a thing that is so taken for granted - that if you are trusted with guns, then you are trusted to make your own ammunition - that I'm still totally confungled as to why anybody should turn down the offer to do it, as we are being told. It's like being told that you have to buy cookies from a store, but you can't have the recipe to make your own, as you might get too fat.

Could it possibly be that folks were not told that they had a choice? Certainly seems to be the case with the few fellow shooters in the RoI that I've asked. The shooting organisation that I am connected to certainly put in a bid to the DoJ on the question of reloading - I was principal in producing the relevant document, so I know that the needs of at least one group was being put forward.

tac

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

Ezridax - you mention tens of thousands of Euros being spent to get your reloading at the Midlands - please feel free to PM me to explain, if you care to, what all this money was spent on doing. I'm confused, as the UK does not have this system of having to pay either politicians or their minions to enable your wishes to come true. That is what they get paid to do when they are elected and paid by the government purse.

tac

No need for a PM as it's no secret. The money was not paid to politicians or government department(s) (wherever that notion came from) , but on the facilities that were needed to accommodate, store, and do the reloading. You may have seen or heard of them being jokingly referred to as "the bunkers".

The shooting organisation that I am connected to certainly put in a bid to the DoJ on the question or reloading - I was principal in producing the relevant document, so I know that the needs of at least one group was being put forward.

We had this conversation previously IIRC. When i asked you said that no answer was given as to why you did not receive a reloading scheme of your own. When i asked where or on what range you have to build what the DoJ wanted in terms of storage, etc i don't think you had a range. I also believe i mentioned that IMO as an association (with no "home" range) rather than an NGB that it could have been a factor in their decision.

However i am not in a position to guess as to the reasons why. My only point in all this is that when a group, miniscule as they may be, have worked so hard, paid alot in both labour, and money, and managed to get reloading, and keep the notion/possibility of it alive for others in the future i cannot understand people's attitudes towards these people when they or the associations, NGBs, groups, organisations they are affiliated to did not do the same yet they expect it to be handed to them.

Most people see the scheme for what it is. A stepping stone for reloading for all at some point in the future. Others (a minority) see it as something that they don't have, and lambast others for having it.

raymonjdevine

In the real world, unless you're target shooting why bother?

johnfaul

raymonjdevine wrote: »

In the real world, unless you're target shooting why bother?

Ability to reload for wildcat calibers that don't have factory ammo, loads specifically tailored to your rifle, ability to use for example a 22-250 with 75 grain bullets which are not offered by the factory, and personal satisfaction that you are firing bullets you made yourself a personal touch

juice1304

Because it's interesting, it'd be alot cheaper per round, you get the most from your rifle/pistol/shotgun in terms of accuracy and velocity. It would open a whole new range of calibers to everyone. You can create task specific rounds. It's better for the environment.We could shoot cast bullets.

rowa

The ability to make up larger calibre , eg deer calibre in subsonic rounds for foxes would be another reason if you had a silenced rifle, i don't think they are available from factory suppliers.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

[1] Yeah, law's hard. It's why it's a profession and why you see people studying it academically.

No one is contradicting that..About as obvious as it will rain in Ireland within a week. What I am saying is ours was written solegallywise that it is almost uncomprehensible as to what an Irish citizens actual rights are,compared to the US constitution written over 200 years ago that somone with a basic grasp of English can understand.

[

2] You might want to keep reading; I'm pretty sure there aren't any major contradictions in there.

Well, article 44 sect 1 and sec2 pts 1/3,has been a tad contradictory for awhile now.
As well as our blasphemy law,most unique in Western Europe..

[3] Correct. That's why the ECHJ is so important. Of course, compared to its peers, it is (on paper at least), far better than most.

Its the ECHR.
IF you can get there and have about a million euros to throw on the table for legal council to start the ball rolling.Playing there is the really big boys club,personally,if I had a million euros I wouldnt be hanging around here and worrying about reloading either.:D


[

4] THAT'S WHAT'S MEANT TO BE IN THERE. If you put the procedures on how to run the Dail in an Act, where the Dail could change them at will, you'd get a week before they'd vote themselves in as the Dail-for-life with million-euro salaries and pensions at 150% of their 'working' wage!

We were trying to find out what your ineliable rights are as an Irish citizen remember,not what it takes to get the Dail to be construed.:p
Would think that would be a tad more important for any State rather than who sits where and does what.But maybe not..

Maybe two weeks, you'd have to get them to actually work at it after all...

The Dail and work in that time frame??...Novel concept!:rolleyes:

[

5] IT IS A LIVING DOCUMENT. More so than the US constitution - we've seen more changes to ours than they have to theirs in the last fifty years. Hell, the next change is only a few months away, adding in the rights-for-children amendment, and the last two were only last October. We've had 30 attempted changes since we wrote the bloody thing, and we-the-people have rejected 10 of those attempted changes (and four never got past the "hey, should we do this?" stage in the Dail).

Think we are at cross wires here,or what an interpertation of a living constitution is.
The US supreme court decides almost on a weekly basis on different interpertations of the US constitution,can or might mean to the running of the US or its law or their influence on citizenery.It is the reasons they have almost annually a different interpertation on the 2nd amendment dependig on how the 12 supreme court judges view it or are being pushed politically by either Congress,the Senate or the White house.
We OTOH need a national Referendum to change ours,and when did the Irish supreme court give a solid ruling on what our law might mean???
Taking the Patwell judical decision into account.

C'mon Grizz, we can't just go complaining about stuff like this in public without doing our homework properly - it makes us all look like we have no idea what we're on about when we go talk to the PTB about changing the legislation that directly impacts on us!

[/QUOTE]

Sparks,until we are called to the Bar and don wigs and gowns and collect 250k PA each basic pay in the high or supreme court.No one will listen to our bar room lawyers discussion anyways.And even if they did,we would be hiring law mongers to repersent us,so this is a totally academic discourse that wouldnt worry the PTB as much as the price of fish in the Sahara.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Sparks;79392496]Yes, but not in this case.

We've argued this point before Grizzly; if you have a centerfire pistol today and I don't, it's not because I was treated unequally by the law; it's because you applied for one when the law allowed the licence to be granted and I didn't.
That's not inequality; that's just me not doing the legwork that you did.

WHOA up there Sparks..:p. That wasnt my meaning at all on this..I was commenting more on Juices comment of us being all equal before the law,most of the time.We are all equal but there is always a big BUT in Irish law that will say maybe not.

Same thing (the exact same thing) is going on here; the Midlands shooters came together, made a proposal to the PTB, sank tens of thousands of their own euros into that effort, and are now running a pilot programme that is the best hope anyone has of seeing reloading come back to the ROI; and people are complaining that they can't reload yet and saying it's unfair and unequal - those same people had every bit as much right to apply to the PTB as the Midlands shooters did; they just didn't do it. That's not inequality; that's not doing the work and bitching when someone else's work pays off even though they stand to get exactly what they want because of that payoff anyway.

Couldnt agree with you more on that..:pAnd I wasnt even refering to that at all.But thats SOP here in Ireland as we all know in any facet of life.:(

"It will never work,or happen..oh it did,!!!!well allow me to jump on the bandwagon and take over the driving,as it was MY idea in the first place!"Somthing like that??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

juice1304 wrote: »

Because it's interesting, it'd be alot cheaper per round, you get the most from your rifle/pistol/shotgun in terms of accuracy and velocity. It would open a whole new range of calibers to everyone. You can create task specific rounds. It's better for the environment.We could shoot cast bullets.

This could be a nub of contention....Is it going to be cheaper??
Considering you will have to take into considration..

What will be the requirements for safe storage of the powder and propellant in your house,property ,or will you even be allowed to do so??
You can be double damn sure the PTB will require some sort of secure storage built to some sort of" Elf an saftey and scurity" standards that wont be cheap or easily done in the back garden of a semi D.

Possibly have to take in a "course" of fluff and costalot on reloading .As you are now going to be privilidged to handle "explosives":rolleyes: in Irish society.

Buying the gear here,obviously you can get the dies,etc on the Net,but what about powder ,primers,empty brass,etc??.Irish dealer markup there and then [if they will be arsed to do so].
Or lots of paperwork for you to get a load of powder in from Europe with the humongous HAZMAT costs.

Lead casting for bullets..Can your gun handle non jacketed rounds?? If not you are stuck with importing bullet heads.And how long will the EU/UN/NWO allow you to use any kind of lead projectile anymore for hunting??Consider the leadshot ban,and already there are calls for it to go from rifle bullets as well.. Not to mind proably "elf an saf" will proably have somthing to say about working with lead in a urban neighbourhood and all the dangers it poses to pregnant women and "the children" two counties away.:rolleyes:

See how it 's mounting up already??:(
Reloading for shotgun shells,any European reloader will tell you its financial sucidie.By the time you have complied with all of the above,you could proably buy a pallet load of factory loaded shotgun shells for the truckload of clays.Unless you are shooting a persnickety SA ,or a very old gun that can only take low charge loads or that only likes one type of load you might be justified,the cheaper option is of course change your gun it it is that much of a queen.Even for hunting loads ,we might burn 6/800 rounds out in Hungary at a pheasent shoot in 3days.Still cheaper to buy four bricks of Remmy factory load.

The pistoleros who shoot a huge amount of ammo in competitions and have fine tuned handguns on a semi pro basis have a justification to reload to the tolerances of their handguns as do the target shooters.
We do it as well as hunters over ,but more because we have some obscure German calibres whose ammo is costly even by their standards,but for some of the more normal calibres we just buy a box or two of shells,there arent that many deer available that we need more.Total sub MOA groupings on a deer isnt THAT necessary.Cant get any deader if you hit it in the heart dead centre or slightly left or right.:)

So to boil it all down ,would it be justified in Ireland???Answer Yes!
Provided the storage requirements dont mean we need to build a nuke silo out the back for 2kg of propellant.
We arent being fecked over on unnecessary paperwork and costly liscenses.
The rest is up to you how much you want to/can spend on it,and can justify the costs in your shooting.

My take on it.

EWQuinn

Well you can bandy this about all you want about what should be, what should have been, and what should not have been. I don't have much experience with ROI or EU rules in shooting sports.

I do happen to have a fair amount of experience in what it takes to get legisltation and rule making though politicians and regulators under challenging conditions. You need strong level headed leadership, a compelling message, a common message, stay on message, with strong lobbying wherein there is strength in numbers supporting the common message.

Mr. Esridax has presented a "pilot scheme" that would appear to me to hold out very significant hope for the future, providing a solid basis to support the message. So it would seem to me that what to do about it is for the clubs / organizations to get on board, get as many sportsmen (including the ladies) signed on and get an effective coordinated proposal afoot. Perhaps this is already in the works, or perhaps its inpractical. But if other EU nations allow reloading and ROI does not, there is certainly some room for improvement.

The Mods on this board get it, and understand that this is a process, a long and drawn out process unfortunately, but you have to work the process to get to the goal (line). Table banging won't get it on this one.

Sikamick

I have been watching this thread and have tried to stay out of it, but I lived hoping that somebody would come in with some thing new and not the same old waffle as to why those that can should reload and why the rest of us should be happy to wait for the crumbs to fall from the masters table.

Juice1304 an absolute plus 1 for your comment, the right to be treated fairly and equally, every citizen’s right.

Sikamick

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juice1304 wrote: »

I did'nt say anything about having the right to own a firearm, But I do have the right to be treated the same as you, I may not be shooting F-class but I don't see why that should make any difference.[by the way i would if i could afford it] Your shooting is important to you and mine is important to me. Neither are more important based on the distance/comp or if it is hunting or target. I would just like to see thing the same for everyone and not just for some. If they do only bring it in for clubs, Is it then right that non members can't?

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN
FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
Personal Rights
Article 40
1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

EWQuinn

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/

The Irish Constitution lays out very important fundamental human rights. Unfortunately my guess is that the right to a driving license, to gun owning, to target shooting, to hunting, and the right to reloading will not be found there.

So if equality means everyone must suffer equally, despite the good efforts of some in negotiating the system to set up a proposal that will help blaze a trail for the others to follow, sorry, but that's not a good approach to solving the problem.