Reloading

Cass

Sikamick wrote: »

I have been watching this thread and have tried to stay out of it, but I lived hoping that somebody would come in with some thing new and not the same old waffle as to why those that can should reload and why the rest of us should be happy to wait for the crumbs to fall from the masters table.

There has been no development with reloading since the pilot scheme so what exactly are you expecting to find. This topic comes up once every month or two with the same answers.

If you find the conversation on this forum to be "waffle" then perhaps avoid reading it.

Sikamick wrote:

Juice1304 an absolute plus 1 for your comment, the right to be treated fairly and equally, every citizen’s right.

Sikamick

EWQuinn wrote:

Unfortunately my guess is that the right to a driving license, to gun owning, to target shooting, to hunting, and the right to reloading will not be found there.

Correct. You have no RIGHT to firearms, reloading, etc. None. It is given at the discretion of An Gardaí/DoJ, and can be revoked as easily.

EWQuinn wrote:

So if equality means everyone must suffer equally, despite the good efforts of some in negotiating the system to set up a proposal that will help blaze a trail for the others to follow, sorry, but that's not a good approach to solving the problem.

My point exactly. I would sooner have a starting point to build from than nothing at all.

Sikamick

Equality and protection of peoples rights.

Discrimination occurs when you are treated less favourably than another person in a similar situation and this treatment cannot be objectively and reasonably justified.

It is important to understand that the Human Rights Act does not protect you from discrimination in all areas of your life. Instead it protects you from discrimination in the enjoyment of those human rights protected by the European Convention of Human Rights. This reflects the core idea that all of us, no matter who we are, enjoy the same human rights and should have equal access to them.

There are other laws that protect you from discrimination more generally.
The protection against discrimination in the Human Rights Act is not free-standing. In other words, in order to rely on this right, you need to show that your ability to enjoy one or more of the other rights in the Human Rights Act has been affected by the discriminatory treatment. However, you do not need to prove that this other human right has actually been breached.

The Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination on a wide range of grounds including ‘sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status’.

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/the-human-rights-act/protection-from-discrimination/ Would this be different for Ireland and if so why.

http://www.ihrc.ie/yourrights/whatarehumanrights.html
•Respect means that States must refrain from interfering with or curtailing the enjoyment of human rights.
•Protect requires States to protect individuals and groups against human rights abuses.
•Fulfil means that States must take positive action to facilitate the enjoyment of basic human rights.

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/About_Us/
■Everyone is encouraged and valued in sport;


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Quote [Ewquinn] The Irish Constitution lays out very important fundamental human rights. Unfortunately my guess is that the right to a driving license, to gun owning, to target shooting, to hunting, and the right to reloading will not be found there.

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Quote [Ezridax] Correct. You have no RIGHT to firearms, reloading, etc. None. It is given at the discretion of An Gardaí/DoJ, and can be revoked as easily.

And you are correct in your quote above, just the same as driving license, publicans liquor license can be revoked neither of which are in the constitution.

If one complies with the criteria / rules laid down then all that fill these requirements are entitled to be treated the same or are you and others that reload more equal than the rest of us.


Sikamick

Sparks

Sikamick wrote: »

Discrimination occurs when you are treated less favourably than another person in a similar situation and this treatment cannot be objectively and reasonably justified.

Highlighted the relevant bit for you there Sikamick.
People are not being treated less favorably than those in a similar situation.
People are in different situations.
This isn't the same thing as discrimination.

But then, the next paragraph is pretty clear on this too:

It is important to understand that the Human Rights Act does not protect you from discrimination in all areas of your life. Instead it protects you from discrimination in the enjoyment of those human rights protected by the European Convention of Human Rights. This reflects the core idea that all of us, no matter who we are, enjoy the same human rights and should have equal access to them.

Exactly. And owning and using firearms ARE NOT CLASSED AS HUMAN RIGHTS BY THE EU OR BY IRELAND.
Hence, it's not discrimination under the law. Even if it was occurring. Which it's not.

If one complies with the criteria / rules laid down then all that fill these requirements are entitled to be treated the same or are you and others that reload more equal than the rest of us.

Exactly correct...
...when you're talking about legal rights.

Owning and using a firearm is not a legal right, and so doesn't enjoy any such protection.

Not that that even applies in this case, where a pilot programme is being run to prove the law should be changed to allow everyone open access to reloading. It might have been reasonably argued to have been in place in previous years, when some people managed to reload through means which are now more strictly controlled; but it wasn't and there's no point complaining about that period now, because it won't get anyone anything except a crackdown that denies everyone what we stand to gain by just saying nothing.

I will say though, that some of the nastiest comments I've heard uttered on this entire topic originated from some of those who were allegedly availing of these now-more-strictly-controlled-means. As seems to always be the case in our little community

Honestly Mick, it's not some conspiracy, it's just a long difficult process to change legislation. It always has been.