General Practitioners are overpaid?

thebankers

Why are these people so grossly overpaid? Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures, some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

MagicMarker

Oh dear, one of the nuts from the conspiracy theory forum has escaped...

The King of Moo

The bankers have turned against the GP's!!
The Revolution's started!!

*grabs plank with nail in it and runs out door*

biko

How much are they paid?
How much do you think they deserve OP?

genericguy

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid? Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures, some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

Seriously, the people who make decisions pertaining to the health of people should not be well paid? **** off.

thebankers

MagicMarker wrote: »

Oh dear, one of the nuts from the conspiracy theory forum has escaped...

It's not really a conspiracy though. Loads of books have been written on this topic. By and large, not by conspiracy theorists:)

MagicMarker

thebankers wrote: »

It's not really a conspiracy though. Loads of books have been written on this topic. By and large, not by conspiracy theorists:)

Name 54 of them.

Almaviva

GPs, whether overpaid or not, do contribute something useful to society by helping the ill.
Bankers on the other hand...

thebankers

biko wrote: »

How much are they paid?
How much do you think they deserve OP?

50 euro for a 5 min consultation. No tests, just a glance. That is a joke. There should be laws clamping down on this sort of thing. Engineers save lives too, just in an indirect manner. Engineers and Biological Researchers save lives too, yet aren't always paid as much.

flutterflye

I've only ever found 1 gp that I thought was in any way decent.
Most of them don't seem to have much of a clue at all really.
I have no idea how much they are paid, but I bet it's way more than they're worth.

The King of Moo

thebankers wrote: »

50 euro for a 5 min consultation. No tests, just a glance. That is a joke. There should be laws clamping down on this sort of thing. Engineers save lives too, just in an indirect manner. Engineers and Biological Researchers save lives too, yet aren't always paid as much.

I save countless lives, indirectly, by cycling to work every day.

Please give me lots of money. You can PM me your bank details if you like.

amtw

Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.[/QUOTE]

Why?

thebankers

MagicMarker wrote: »

Name 54 of them.

Not a chance, but here is a very good book on the matter. Starts off with the real breakthroughs in medicine during the late 18th, and early 19th century. It's indisputable to deny the effects of corporate greed on this speciality. Thats not to say there aren't good caring Doctors out there.

It's written by a "real" doctor btw.

thebankers

amtw wrote: »

Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

Why?[/QUOTE]

Medicine cannot exist without Mathematics, therefore any profits derived from medical research, should in theory be paid back to people who developed the theories which underly the application of the applied medical research.

Fair?

af_thefragile

No. They are not.

They spent 5-6 hard years in med school learning how to be a good doctor so that when you fall ill, they know what to do and when something is serious and you need to see a specialist and when something is not serious and you just need to sit tight and wait for it to go away and when you need to be rushed into AnE!

Can anyone else do that? No!
Can you live without your GP? No!


And yes, 5mins is all a good GP needs. It doesn't take much for a trained GP to diagnose what's wrong with you and what needs to be done.
There are other people he needs to see too. Many of whom have more serious problems and hence the GP needs to use his time properly so that he can see all the people who're waiting outside to be seen.

thebankers

genericguy wrote: »

Seriously, the people who make decisions pertaining to the health of people should not be well paid? **** off.

It's the businessmen and the pen pushers that make the most important decision of all...will the treatment go ahead?

January

af_thefragile wrote: »

No. They are not.

They spent 5-6 hard years in med school learning how to be a good doctor so that when you fall ill, they know what to do and when something is serious and you need to see a specialist and when something is not serious and you just need to sit tight and wait for it to go away and when you need to be rushed into AnE!

Can anyone else do that? No!
Can you live without your GP? No!


And yes, 5mins is all a good GP needs. It doesn't take much for a trained GP to diagnose what's wrong with you and what needs to be done.
There are other people he needs to see too. Many of whom have more serious problems and hence the GP needs to use his time properly so that he can see all the people who're waiting outside to be seen.

Yeah, give you a wide range antibiotic such as amoxicillin.

Mr.Wemmick

af_thefragile wrote: »

No. They are not.

They spent 5-6 hard years in med school learning how to be a good doctor so that when you fall ill, they know what to do and when something is serious and you need to see a specialist and when something is not serious and you just need to sit tight and wait for it to go away and when you need to be rushed into AnE!

Can anyone else do that? No!
Can you live without your GP? No!


And yes, 5mins is all a good GP needs. It doesn't take much for a trained GP to diagnose what's wrong with you and what needs to be done.
There are other people he needs to see too. Many of whom have more serious problems and hence the GP needs to use his time properly so that he can see all the people who're waiting outside to be seen.

..and when they get it wrong, do you get your 50 euro back?

Or do you have to pay another 50 euro when you go back to tell them:

"Nope, wasn't what you said it was. I'm still sick"

:rolleyes:

Frank Black

I have a friend who's a GP.
She took out a large loan to buy her way into a practice.
Could only take 4 months maternity leave when she had a baby.
Is on call every second weekend and a few evenings during the week.
Has to regularly attend Continuing professional Development lectures in her 'time off'.
Studied hard in school to get into college and then really hard when she got to college.
And has to make important decisions every day which potentially affect people's lives.
I don't envy her, nor begrudge the relativly high salary she gets.

I wouldn't swap with her anyway.

amtw

thebankers wrote: »

Why?

Medicine cannot exist without Mathematics, therefore any profits derived from medical research, should in theory be paid back to people who developed the theories which underly the application of the applied medical research.

Fair?[/QUOTE]

Medicine in a vacumn is worthless, it is only when it is made accessible to people that it is of value. Yes, those who do the research should be paid their worth but so also should those who interpret (GPs) that research for others.

theg81der

Never had a problem properly diagnosed and treated by a gp so I don`t rate them apart from as very bad psychologists because all they seem to say to a lot of women is that they are suffering from stress before they do basic things like bloods . There an obsticle you need to get through to access treatment or drugs - thats it!

af_thefragile

January wrote: »

Yeah, give you a wide range antibiotic such as amoxicillin.

Nope, you can't anymore. Antibiotics are only for when its really really necessary. Because all the people are popping antibiotics like MnMs and the bacteriae are all getting like pffft, its that same penicillin crap again, pull out your defence shields! And antibiotic resistance is increasing quite staggeringly.

Also they do a wee bit more than just prescribe antibiotics. Its just majority of people come in with cough or cold and are impatient to just sit it out and become happy and satisfied when they get some pills... Because of ethical reasons the docs can't just prescribe them vitamin pills saying they'll cure the cough/cold so they have to end up giving them the amoxicillin.

af_thefragile

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

..and when they get it wrong, do you get your 50 euro back?

Or do you have to pay another 50 euro when you go back to tell them:

"Nope, wasn't what you said it was. I'm still sick"

:rolleyes:

And so should they charge you more if what you thought was a bit of constipation turned out to be colon cancer and hence your GP saved your life by diagnosing your cancer early before it could have become really serious??

thebankers

And yet Medicine is not a pure Science. Medicine is more akin to an Art than they would like you to believe. We are in the 21st century and can't even regrow limbs ffs!!! If less money was pumped into management of diabetes and more into research for a cure, that would be a start. Big companies are against this for obvious reasons.

Ultimately, GP's don't save lives. Biological Research does. Research is paramount and deserves more money.

af_thefragile

thebankers wrote: »

And yet Medicine is not a pure Science. Medicine is more akin to an Art than they would like you to believe. We are in the 21st century and can't even regrow limbs ffs!!! If less money was pumped into management of diabetes and more into research for a cure, that would be a start. Big companies are against this for obvious reasons.

Ultimately, Doctors don't save lives. Biological Research does.

Well a lot more people have diabetes than those who need a new limb... Also most people end up being fairly happy with an artificial limb.

Its like why do we now have 70" HD LED TVs with internet and crap but still can't cure all cancers? Its because more people spend money to buy TVs than they do to find a cure for cancer!

amtw

thebankers wrote: »

And yet Medicine is not a pure Science. Medicine is more akin to an Art than they would like you to believe. We are in the 21st century and can't even regrow limbs ffs!!! If less money was pumped into management of diabetes and more into research for a cure, that would be a start. Big companies are against this for obvious reasons.

Ultimately, GP's don't save lives. Biological Research does. Research is paramount and deserves more money.

Again without someone to interpret that research it is useless for the general populace who don't have the knowledge or training to know what applies to them.

thebankers

af_thefragile wrote: »

Well a lot more people have diabetes than those who need a new limb... Also most people end up being fairly happy with an artificial limb.

If humans can split the atom, surely to god a cure for diabetes should be within reach? With enough time and money, this condition could be resigned to the dustbin. Insulin is a lucrative business at the moment though.

Part of me wonders if the food companies and others collude with each other to pump their products full of diabetes inducing crap, which benefits both parties through mutual interests. There is no justification for the amount of suger in the crap they process these days.

mauzo

Eh, anyone who freezes off my brothers skin tags deserves the euromillions...

mattjack

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid? Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures, some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

Look what I found ? someone's not a happy little banker.


Yesterday, 16:10 #1
thebankers
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Identification of Scar tissue
Hi, I understand that scar tissue lacks sweat glands. I want to know if it's possible to generally determine if a suspect lesion is scar tissue by:

(a) body sweat - if the lesion sweats, is this not indicative of scarring?
(b) Skin lines - If the skin lines over say a toe/joint is intact, does this indicate a lack of fibrosis? Don't scars eradicate skin lines?

The reason I ask, is because my GP could not/was not willing to tell me this information. Very worries, cause it's on my face. Should I get a 2nd opinion or refund? Not happy they can't answer these questions. thanks. a toe/joint is intact, does this indicate a lack of fibrosis? Don't scars eradicate skin lines?

Terry

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid? Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures, some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

You (and your ilk) are one of the main reasons I miss being a mod.

I used to get great pleasure out of finding out which conspiracy theorist you were (are).

It was like detective work, but without having to leave the house.
All you have to do is click a few links and there you are.

Yeah, the tenses are mixed up there, but I understand my post and that's all that matters.

Either way, you need more fluoride in your water. Wooooooooo!

Dwellingdweller

mattjack wrote: »

Look what I found ? someone's not a happy little banker.

Seems like he's trying to educate himself on a medical topic in a pretty friendly, polite manner. No need for the sarcasm like. Especially when his GP wouldn't answer what is probably a simple enough medical question.

thebankers

Well I got shafted out of money and am still in the dark about my issue. Does the GP give a ****e? Not unless I pay for something which should be covered by the original visit two months ago. Either way, I am just blowing off steam. Nobody is perfect:D

Funny how people think you must be short of a 6 pack because you question an establishment. Which does wonders at times, but has a somewhat dark side to it aswell.

mattjack

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Seems like he's trying to educate himself on a medical topic in a pretty friendly, polite manner. No need for the sarcasm like. Especially when his GP wouldn't answer what is probably a simple enough medical question.

You're right , I shouldn,t be sarcastic .

thebankers

Terry wrote: »

You (and your ilk) are one of the main reasons I miss being a mod.

I used to get great pleasure out of finding out which conspiracy theorist you were (are).

It was like detective work, but without having to leave the house.
All you have to do is click a few links and there you are.

Yeah, the tenses are mixed up there, but I understand my post and that's all that matters.

Either way, you need more fluoride in your water. Wooooooooo!

Stalking is illegal and generally for people with too much time on their hands.

Mr.Wemmick

af_thefragile wrote: »

And so should they charge you more if what you thought was a bit of constipation turned out to be colon cancer and hence your GP saved your life by diagnosing your cancer early before it could have become really serious??

Never happens! It's the patient who has to assertively express the seriousness of what they're going through to doctors.. too many times, I have found doctors get it wrong so you have to keep going back to them.

My family and friends have come across many GPs who do not listen, fail to follow up on, or dismiss symptoms, and need to pushed and questioned before they forward on any concerns to specialists.

It's not difficult to figure out that persistent constipation, or any persistent pain, needs to be assessed by a specialist. A GP doesn't save your life but should pass you on to someone that can, but very often they don't or they delay in doing so.

Dwellingdweller

Terry wrote: »

You (and your ilk) are one of the main reasons I miss being a mod.

I used to get great pleasure out of finding out which conspiracy theorist you were (are).

It was like detective work, but without having to leave the house.
All you have to do is click a few links and there you are.

Yeah, the tenses are mixed up there, but I understand my post and that's all that matters.

Either way, you need more fluoride in your water. Wooooooooo!

How does saying GPs are overpaid equate to being a conspiracy theorist? They are overpaid. In Germany, GPs get paid half of what they get paid here. I understand that you believe OP is a conspiracy theorist because of what he says about the pharmaceutical industry and it's links with the medical industry, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

Final Approach

I am just wondering, how much on average are GP's actually paid? I know its E50+ from a paying patient, but a significant percentage of patients are medical card holders, so not sure how much they are each worth per visit to a GP. Per annum, would E70'000 to E100'000 be a reasonable guess?

Dwellingdweller

Final Approach wrote: »

I am just wondering, how much on average are GP's actually paid? I know its E50+ from a paying patient, but a significant percentage of patients are medical card holders, so not sure how much they are each worth per visit to a GP. Per annum, would E70'000 to E100'000 be a reasonable guess?

This might come across as slightly irrelevant but GPs get paid more depending on how many patients they have on their roster also. So the salary of a GP depends on a few factors, how many patients are on their roster, how many days they work a year, how many prescriptions they write. ETC.

mattjack

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

How does saying GPs are overpaid equate to being a conspiracy theorist? They are overpaid. In Germany, GPs get paid half of what they get paid here. I understand that you believe OP is a conspiracy theorist because of what he says about the pharmaceutical industry and it's links with the medical industry, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

Where would I look to find the above info. about the link between GP,s and pharma. companies. ,

wilkie2006

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid?

Well they're not. "Overpaid" - like "underpaid" - doesn't mean anything unless you consider supply and demand. Currently, demand outweighs supply. If you want to bring down the cost of a GP consultation why don't you and your friends all train for seven years (maybe more?) and qualify as doctors. Then start a thread in AH complaining that bus drivers make too much money.

Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures,

GPs have very little to do with the pharmaceutical industry. Whether pharma companies are "corrupt" or "shady" is an entirely different topic.

some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

"Some", not all. Like any profession. So what?

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

No.

mattjack

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Well they're not. "Overpaid" - like "underpaid" - doesn't mean anything unless you consider supply and demand. Currently, demand outweighs supply. If you want to bring down the cost of a GP consultation why don't you and your friends all train for seven years (maybe more?) and qualify as doctors. Then start a thread in AH complaining that bus drivers make too much money.


GPs have very little to do with the pharmaceutical industry. Whether pharma companies are "corrupt" or "shady" is an entirely different topic.

"Some", not all. Like any profession. So what?

No.

Shhh you.... with your sensible observations and contributions.

wilkie2006

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

I'd love to see how you can back that up.

Terry

thebankers wrote: »

Stalking is illegal and generally for people with too much time on their hands.

I can't believe you're calling me a stalker.
That's defamation of character.
How dare you defame my good name by calling me a stalker!!!
I am a pillar of society.

I'm going to sue you and boards.ie because of your fiendish allegations.*

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

How does saying GPs are overpaid equate to being a conspiracy theorist? They are overpaid. In Germany, GPs get paid half of what they get paid here. I understand that you believe OP is a conspiracy theorist because of what he says about the pharmaceutical industry and it's links with the medical industry, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

The dude's a conspiracy nut.
I guarantee that he will be site banned within 24 hours. Not because of this thread, but because he has been found to be a re-registered user who has been banned many times.

If I'm wrong, I will apologise, but I'm never wrong.

As for GPs being over-paid, I'd prefer give money to doctors than to, let's say politicians or soccer players. Both of whom are paid far too much for what they do.

*The suing stuff is a joke.
I will never ever even attempt to sue boards.ie or any of its members or anyone even remotely attached to the boards group or its owners, partners or subsidiaries.
Also, and I want this following statement to be remembered, I really do not give a flying fúck about what any member of this site says about me.

I still believe that the OP is a conspiracy theorist who has been site banned in the past.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but doubt that I will.
Goodnight.

Cookie_Monster

thebankers wrote: »

50 euro for a 5 min consultation. .

600 an hour so. Do you think this all goes into his pocket, or does it pay for him, equipment, rent, rates, power, an assistant, a nurse maybe, admin, accounting etc...

Cookie_Monster

wilkie2006 wrote: »

I'd love to see how you can back that up.

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

mattjack

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

600 an hour so. Do you think this all goes into his pocket, or does it pay for him, equipment, rent, rates, power, an assistant, a nurse maybe, admin, accounting etc...

It does. Have you seen the size of the pockets they have on the white coats they wear ?

Terry

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

I'm so fúcked that I need 11 different pills a day.
My GP prescribes the generic brands, and my Pharmacist always tells me I'm getting the generic brands, but doesn't try to push the "Big Pharma" pills.

I get little notes on the boxes saying "same as <insert brand name here>".

This is why I find this thread so funny.

dirtyden

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

Can you give examples?

Most of the better treatments out there are still patented brands as the golden era of drug discovery was the mid nineties to the early noughties, also any prescription drug needs to be approved by the IMB and many generic companies do not have licenses to sell their products in the EU as simply they dont meet the quality standards.

In the coming years more generic brands will become available but it is simply not the case currently. There are a few out there now but there is not a similar or better generic alternative to many of the current brand name drugs.

wilkie2006

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

Drugs have a 20 year patent. Generic/non-branded drugs can only be produced when the patent expires. When the patent expires they're freely available wherever the original drug has been passed as safe by individual countries' drug regulator.

If you're buying unbranded versions of new drugs then you're very silly because they've probably been made in a shed somewhere.

EDIT:

also any prescription drug needs to be approved by the IMB and many generic companies do not have licenses to sell their products in the EU as simply they dont meet the quality standards.

I stand corrected, though the rest of my post is sound.

Odysseus

I often spend 30-60 mins with my GP on each consulation, then again I have had some moderate medical issues and we tend to talk shop or sky-diving shooting. I often feel guility when leaving and people are starting at me. Then again I am attending there since I was 17.

Odysseus

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

Not they do not, any proff on this.