General Practitioners are overpaid?

Sierra Oscar

thebankers wrote: »

50 euro for a 5 min consultation. No tests, just a glance. That is a joke. There should be laws clamping down on this sort of thing. Engineers save lives too, just in an indirect manner. Engineers and Biological Researchers save lives too, yet aren't always paid as much.

€35 for a consultation with my GP, which probably last 25 minutes on average judging by how long it takes for him to get through patients.

You need to find a better GP.

shuridunno

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid? Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures, some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

If you consider that you have to pay €50 for a 10 min app while waiting up to half an hour to be seen by a person who has no interest in talking to you and just getting you a prescription/referring you, then yes.

There was a media thing a while back where a doctor said they just wouldn't have the time to keep up with the research that pours into their office.

You need to be very informed yourself and realise that GPs are GENERAL PRACTITIONERS, they do not specialise in anything and therefore are just a first port of call to sending you to someone who knows what's really wrong with you.

The best thing my GP ever said was...''I am not the all knowing, I do not have the answers, but I will certainly help you get ehat you need''

Referral>consultant>diagnosis>plan of action..

So, should the question be, are they paid too much, or do we expect too much.
I think they are paid too much for people who really just run a few tests, diagnose infections or refer to a specialist.

Maybe they have overheads we don't know about:rolleyes: do they have to pay the hospitals for the blood work you get done, rent, staff, supplies....ah, I dunno. Just womdering if I can justify it.

dirtyden

Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).[/QUOTE]

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.

shuridunno

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

€35 for a consultation with my GP, which probably last 25 minutes on average judging by how long it takes for him to get through patients.

You need to find a better GP.

would agree, I have seen a few GPs, ranging from, 40-75, the one I settled with is 50 and never rushes me out the door, I could be with him for 25mins, so I allow others to do the same, I just bring a good book to my appointment.:)

Shryke

af_thefragile wrote: »

No. They are not.

They spent 5-6 hard years in med school learning how to be a good doctor so that when you fall ill, they know what to do and when something is serious and you need to see a specialist and when something is not serious and you just need to sit tight and wait for it to go away and when you need to be rushed into AnE!

Can anyone else do that? No!
Can you live without your GP? No!


And yes, 5mins is all a good GP needs. It doesn't take much for a trained GP to diagnose what's wrong with you and what needs to be done.
There are other people he needs to see too. Many of whom have more serious problems and hence the GP needs to use his time properly so that he can see all the people who're waiting outside to be seen.

None of any of this translates into a ridiculously high fee being charged. And every third level course worth its salt requires a couple of years hard work. Not everyone puts that in though, and some of those who don't still graduate. And some of them can end up being doctors.
It's exactly because everyone needs checkups and medical help through their lives that it shouldn't be so expensive.
GPs I've had to deal with are half clueless and half non caring. Even with that though I still don't think badly of them. That doesn't mean I'm impressed either. I like to take the most reasonable viewpoint on something like this..
In my experience GPs are completely clueless and la di da. Hospital staff on the other hand are amazing, and very over worked.

shuridunno

dirtyden wrote: »

Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.[/QUOTE]

Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.

eyesquirm

Terry wrote: »

I'm so fúcked that I need 11 different pills a day.
My GP prescribes the generic brands, and my Pharmacist always tells me I'm getting the generic brands, but doesn't try to push the "Big Pharma" pills.

I get little notes on the boxes saying "same as <insert brand name here>".

This is why I find this thread so funny.

22,600 or so posts?
Its not your fingers that are fúcked, anyway.....

:pac:


Couldn't resist

shuridunno

shuridunno wrote: »

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.

Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.[/QUOTE]

Sierra Oscar

happyfish wrote: »

GP's aren't like other public service employees, they're effectively self employed and running their own businesses, whether that's what they wanted or not.

Many GP's would actually love if they were paid a decent salary where the state provided a premises and staff rather than having to effectively run their own business, where the costs have steadily risen in recent years. The fee's that GP's receive from the state are down over 35% since 2009 - they do not have the protection that people in the public sector have for example under Croke Park. Furthermore it is important to recognise that GP's receive a capitation fee on average of €130 per annum for medical card holders, which in turn entitles medical card holders to attend the GP as many times as they want. Considering the fact that private practice has evaporated (down by over 40% since 2008) and that the number of people holding medical cards has spiralled, it does not take a genius to recognise that GP's are under quite severe strain.

This weeks Irish Medical Times has published an extensive survey of over three hundred GP practices in Ireland where over 90% of the respondents stated that they would no longer recommend the profession to their family members, a massive spike compared to previous surveys.

The fact of the matter is that primary care in Ireland is in crisis.

shuridunno

shuridunno wrote: »

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.

Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.[/QUOTE]

There's some weird **** going on here, this is not what I wrote, The unhighlighted part is waht I wrote

Cookie_Monster

dirtyden wrote: »

Can you give examples?

nope, I just remember reading through a huge thread on it here at some point.

Paracetemol would be one I suppose, 16p up north, ten times that (or more) in the south - not quite a prescription but an example of Ireland's general refusal to go generic.

Dentists openly advertise brands to you (as a point of interest), not quite the same league as medication of course but still entirely unethical IMO

January

January wrote: »

Yeah, give you a wide range antibiotic such as amoxicillin.

Amoxicillin isn't first line treatment.

thebankers

Terry wrote: »

I can't believe you're calling me a stalker.
That's defamation of character.
How dare you defame my good name by calling me a stalker!!!
I am a pillar of society.

I'm going to sue you and boards.ie because of your fiendish allegations.*



The dude's a conspiracy nut.
I guarantee that he will be site banned within 24 hours. Not because of this thread, but because he has been found to be a re-registered user who has been banned many times.

If I'm wrong, I will apologise, but I'm never wrong.

As for GPs being over-paid, I'd prefer give money to doctors than to, let's say politicians or soccer players. Both of whom are paid far too much for what they do.

*The suing stuff is a joke.
I will never ever even attempt to sue boards.ie or any of its members or anyone even remotely attached to the boards group or its owners, partners or subsidiaries.
Also, and I want this following statement to be remembered, I really do not give a flying fúck about what any member of this site says about me.

I still believe that the OP is a conspiracy theorist who has been site banned in the past.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but doubt that I will.
Goodnight.

I never called you a stalker:) Although inference can be drawn from the context of that post, maybe yes. You aren't wrong about that. The bit in bold makes quite alot of sense in fairness to you. It's GP's mainly that are overpaid at times, not the specialist staff who actually tend to extensive research, which still has the potential to be compromised.

The only things I want people to consider is:

1: Like the UK - Demand generic drug availability, private companies should not be allowed a monopoly here, unlike the UK. Retailers here tend to pretend that it's somehow acceptable, like the USA.

2: Improve the GP thing for god sake. The NHS in the UK is free for initial consultations, and the drugs can be nearly 60% cheaper for the same non generic drug!!! I even know some brits who complain about the prices of the generics, let alone the non generics which can be anywhere up to 60% cheaper over there.

Duggys Housemate

Not only are GPs over paid, we don't need GPs in the modern system. The proof of this is made obvious by the GPs themselves, who don't work all the time, it's not a 24/7 operation, unlike paramedics who do the same job when the GPs are sleeping,

If you have 7 years of training go work in a hospital.

thebankers

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

600 an hour so. Do you think this all goes into his pocket, or does it pay for him, equipment, rent, rates, power, an assistant, a nurse maybe, admin, accounting etc...

Of course not, but a 5 min consultation is hardly going to make a dent in these expenses, at least that is the way it should be. They aren't running a factory!!!

Cookie_Monster

accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.

shuridunno

shuridunno wrote: »

Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.

[/QUOTE]

Is this in relation to HDL and LDL?

Cookie_Monster

thebankers wrote: »

Of course not, but a 5 min consultation is hardly going to make a dent in these expenses, at least that is the way it should be. They aren't running a factory!!!

no, they're running a business, in a market which has huge compitition. you as a customer are perfectly entitled to take your business elsewhere for a better / cheaper sevice.

wilkie2006

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.

Not only that, GPs act as gatekeeper to secondary care. Without them the system would become (even more) clogged up.

Duggys Housemate

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.

If the paramedics are handling the emergencies then the hard work, which requires medical knowledge, is handled by the paramedics who are paid less. The paramedics can do what GPs do freeing people with more training to workin hospitals.

thebankers

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.

No, all I am saying is that the work performed in that timeframe does not justify charging someone 50 euro. Granted it can be stressfull and they have to work out of hours at times too, but it really depends on the situation.

I found a drug manufactured in Ireland the other day, being sold in Britain for over 50% less. Not surprisingly, it wasn't a generic drug. Now I know duty between Ireland and UK isn't excessive, so what is the deal?

British people aren't willing to put up with as much crap. This is reflected in their drug pricing.

Cookie_Monster

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

If the paramedics are handling the emergencies then the hard work, which requires medical knowledge, is handled by the paramedics who are paid less. The paramedics can do what GPs do freeing people with more training to workin hospitals.

so you'd rather just GPs in hospitals than all the different specialists there? GPs, while having a vst knowledge bank, generally do not have the required specialist subject knowledge required for a lot of hospital treatment cases. Thats why there are surgeons, gynos, cardiac specialists etc, seems a rather more sensible system to me

Duggys Housemate

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Not only that, GPs act as gatekeeper to secondary care. Without them the system would become (even more) clogged up.

So do paramedics and nurses in walk in centres. The GP is an anachronism , it's a relic of the Doctor's job from the 19th century where they actually did the work now done by specialists, and in hospitals, including surgeries.. For which they had the same training they have now. The training is too much now, replace them with nurses and paramedics, and everybody with a Dr. Degree works in a hospital, where they are not overpaid, cos that is real hard work.

Duggys Housemate

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so you'd rather just GPs in hospitals than all the different specialists there? GPs, while having a vst knowledge bank, generally do not have the required specialist subject knowledge required for a lot of hospital treatment cases. Thats why there are surgeons, gynos, cardiac specialists etc, seems a rather more sensible system to me

Does every doctor in A&E have to be a specialist? Use the training of the Dr. to work in there with broken arms, quick surgeries, etc. rather than handing out aspirins.

thebankers

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, they're running a business, in a market which has huge compitition. you as a customer are perfectly entitled to take your business elsewhere for a better / cheaper sevice.

Your point is 100% valid. But this is a symptom of a broken system. Fix the pricing policies through legislation, and bye bye to these cut throat practices. At least by some margin.

Sierra Oscar

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Not only are GPs over paid, we don't need GPs in the modern system. The proof of this is made obvious by the GPs themselves, who don't work all the time, it's not a 24/7 operation, unlike paramedics who do the same job when the GPs are sleeping,

If you have 7 years of training go work in a hospital.

What are you talking about?

GP's are obliged by their contract to provide 24/7 care for their patient. That is why they pay into schemes such as East Doc and Shannon Doc. GP's themselves go on call with these out of hours agencies - they are not staffed by paramedics. You are very misinformed if you think that paramedics take over from GP's after 5PM. I suggest you do a little research before posting.

Our hospitals are already unable to cope with their current workload - do you think they would be able to cope if every person self presented to a hospital?

Cookie_Monster

thebankers wrote: »

Your point is 100% valid. But this is a symptom of a broken system. Fix the pricing policies through legislation, and bye bye to these cut throat practices. At least by some margin.

so a cartel with the government is a better option than open competition?
If you were a Doctor and was suddenly told you can only charge X instead of Y and after looking at it realised X was not enough income to support your business and earn a decent salary (reflective of the time and effort gone into qualification and CPD) then why would you bother sticking around?

I'm not saying I don't agree the fees in IRL a high, but not crazily so, and you have to consider all the additional costs of bureaucracy that the state ladles onto businesses when demanding that charges to the public are cut by big amounts by the same state legislation.

Duggys Housemate

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

What are you talking about?

GP's are obliged by their contract to provide 24/7 care for their patient. That is why they pay into schemes such as East Doc and Shannon Doc. GP's themselves go on call with these out of hours agencies - they are not staffed by paramedics. You are very misinformed if you think that paramedics take over from GP's after 5PM. I suggest you do a little research before posting.

Our hospitals are already unable to cope with their current workload - do you think they would be able to cope if every person self presented to a hospital?

I have no idea what those schemes are, I have never visited a GP past 5. I bet 90% of out of hour emergencies are handled by paramedics. What stats do you have?

jsd1004

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

If the paramedics are handling the emergencies then the hard work, which requires medical knowledge, is handled by the paramedics who are paid less. The paramedics can do what GPs do freeing people with more training to workin hospitals.

GP's also only do as they are trained, they do not question medicine or offer alternative therapies. They do not question physciatric treatment and prescribe anti depressants and antibiotics routinely just to cover themselves..also the issuing of med certs is disgraceful. Symphysiotomy,lobotomys among others is not very flattering of the medical profession. ( Not blaming GP's in general just the medical profession).

Sierra Oscar

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I have no idea what those schemes are, I have never visited a GP past 5. I bet 90% of out of hour emergencies are handled by paramedics. What stats do you have?

If you require GP care out of hours, then you go to your out of hours service - which is staffed by a (shock, horror!) GP. Paramedics do not provide GP care past 5PM, as you seem to suggest.

National Review of GP Out of Hours Service

Read up on it.

The total number of calls handled in the nine main cooperatives in 2008, amounted
to 915,999. The extended hours’ cooperatives handled 26,001 calls, totalling
942,000 calls nationally for the year. Caredoc handled the most calls (290,735)
which included triage calls (78,712) for DDoc, while KDoc handled the least
number (41,940).

The majority of the cooperatives commence their ‘red‐eye’ shift at 12 midnight and
finish at 8am Monday to Sunday. However, Caredoc and SouthDoc operate from
11pm to 8am weekdays and 9pm to 9am weekends and bank holidays. In WestDoc
one cell commences the ‘red‐eye’ shift at 10pm every night while another cell
commences at 10pm on weekends. In ShannonDoc the ‘red‐eye’ shift operates
from midnight to 9am at weekends and bank holidays, while in the overnight
centres the locum may commence at 8pm. NowDoc has one centre that operates 12
midnight to 9am. ‘Red‐eye’ arrangements are not provided by the extended hours’
cooperatives.

It is GP's who man those co-operatives and do the shift work - rubbishing your entire notion that GP's book off at 5PM. If they do not want to work the shifts then they pay dearly for it (approx €900 for buying out a six hour session).

Bad Panda

thebankers wrote: »

50 euro for a 5 min consultation. No tests, just a glance. That is a joke. There should be laws clamping down with on this sort of thing. Engineers save lives too, just in an indirect manner. Engineers and Biological Researchers save lives too, yet aren't always paid as much.

Careful now.

hondasam

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I have no idea what those schemes are, I have never visited a GP past 5. I bet 90% of out of hour emergencies are handled by paramedics. What stats do you have?

How do you mean paramedics, they are not qualified the same as doctors or nurses afaik.

Duggys Housemate

hondasam wrote: »

How do you mean paramedics, they are not qualified the same as doctors or nurses afaik.

But they are the ones handling emergencies.

Africa

I kind of agree with OP. It should be more balanced for sure depending on time/issue.

I went to a GP a few weeks ago and basically had to tell HIM what was wrong with me. He really didnt want to do the job properly, or was just that incompetent that didnt know how to. I knew I had an ear infection in one ear and knew I needed the other ear syringed, yet he wanted to neither give me a prescription for antibiotics ("it will heal itself"... eh no, its been this way for about 3 weeks. I know its an infection) or the syringe ("it doesnt look blocked, itll be ok" eh, no, its blocked. Its happened before. Please syringe it.) and then after I was charged 60 for this joke! I was appalled. I stupidly paid for it. I regret it so much. I was booked for a follow up which was to be another 50, but said feck that, and didnt call to tell the clinic I wasnt coming, so hopefully wasted his time. Yep, I am cynical like that. The WORST part is he was teaching a student from Malaysia and had him in the room. When leaving, he actually said to the student "Sometimes the patient know themselves from past experiences and can guide you well." Bastardhole.

hondasam

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

But they are the ones handling emergencies.

I'm not sure what you mean tbh, I think we are thinking paramedics are two different things. What do you think a paramedic's job is?

byhookorbycrook

My gp is fantastic, goes above and beyond for me on a regular basis. Worth 5 times her salary

finty

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Not only are GPs over paid, we don't need GPs in the modern system. The proof of this is made obvious by the GPs themselves, who don't work all the time, it's not a 24/7 operation, unlike paramedics who do the same job when the GPs are sleeping,

If you have 7 years of training go work in a hospital.

You should win a medal for this post....

Cookie_Monster

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

But they are the ones handling emergencies.

they are first response and treat / stabilise the patients only for as long as it takes to hand them over to doctors / specialists in the hospitals to do the work* of fixing the problems and starting recovery.

*I'm not trying in any way to diminish the work they do, just trying to put it in context against what goes on after a patient arrives at the hospital

Deus Ex Machina

I've recently had some personal differences with people currently training for the medical profession, so I think doctors should have a severe, almost crippling pay cut.

Fighting Irish

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

I've recently had some personal differences with people currently training for the medical profession, so I think doctors should have a severe, almost crippling pay cut.

so glad you're not in power

guppy

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

My gp is fantastic, goes above and beyond for me on a regular basis. Worth 5 times her salary

Mine too. I've been with the same practice for 30 years (I'm 33). First the mother, then her daughter joined, then another doctor part-time until the mother retired and the other doctor took over full-time. The mother is 'retired' 5 years now but still spends her mornings visiting the house-bound patients, for free.

My gp charges €50 per visit, but if I need to go back with the same complaint, it's free. She refers when whatever treatment she's prescribed is not effective, or when I have an issue which obviously needs care out of her domain.

I'm getting from this that there are a lot of gp's who don't care about their patients. That sucks, and if I were you, I'd change gp. Personally, I love my gp(s), and wouldn't change them if you paid me.

fergalr

GPs are in a highly leveraged position.

I'm willing to spend a good portion of my salary, as a taxpayer - and as an individual - on healthcare, because slightly better diagnosis can have a huge effect on my life.

If I have a strange spot on my skin, I care a great deal about whether that spot is just a spot, or something horribly cancerous.
I care a lot about getting an accurate answer to that question. If the GP tells me the spot is fine, and I later find out its a nasty cancer, that really effects me very severely.
An accurate assessment can make the difference between life and death, for me.

How many years of my salary is the better diagnosis worth?
If paying a doctor 60 euro, rather than 20 euro, the few times I really need a diagnosis, gets me more accuracy, I'd be happy to pay that. The difference is the price of a couple of cinema trips, or an intercity train ticket; less than a concert ticket; and less than many people spend on a big night out.


Secondly, GPs are not supposed to be people who mechanically dispense medicines.

They do that, but what they are really paid for, is because they are pattern classification machines, supposed to discriminate whether the patient is in the 80% of people with influenza symptoms who have the flu (go to bed, drink fluids etc) or maybe the 9% that have a chest infection (take antibiotics, rest, whatever) or maybe the 1% with something really nasty, that needs to get to hospital and get specialist treatment stat.

Thats what you are supposed to be paying for, when you visit a GP; and its like insurance: you hope you are paying for an ability to recognise bad shít, that you never get your moneys worth out of.


Thirdly, GPs have a lot of costs. Secretary, rent, equipment were mentioned before; don't forget things like liability insurance, time spent doing paperwork etc. Theres also intangible costs; its a stressful job, if you were to make a mistake, people die; you see people die all the time, deal with people at their worst and lowest; at a level you are always at work.
Further, there are opportunity costs; its a hard profession to get in to. Requires good schoolwork, long years at university, hard work, hard grind at college. Career in finance or law is probably much more rewarding, really, when you look at it; those are other careers accessible to people who end up as doctors. A member of my family is a GP, and its not a career I'd choose.


Actually, I cannot understand, as a society, why we don't spend a lot more on health care. Good healthcare just makes such a huge difference to your life, when you need it. We spend so much resources on all sorts of rubbish, by comparison.


I would like if GPs were cheaper. I've never understood why we don't train a whole lot more doctors (I can't believe the marginal cost of training them is *that* high?), with some sort of student loan (to stop them leaving the country immeadiately after) and let the prices naturally decrease, increase the quality of life for the doctors, etc. We don't seem to have a shortage of people who would be doctors - but I guess its hard to know.
But that requires a big societial change in how we think about healthcare. Given the status quo, I'm glad GPs get paid as much as they do.

Finally, I'm talking paying for good doctors in this post; there's also a whole lot of bad doctors out there, but thats a whole other issue.

guppy

fergalr wrote: »

Actually, I cannot understand, as a society, why we don't spend a lot more on health care. Good healthcare just makes such a huge difference to your life, when you need it. We spend so much resources on all sorts of rubbish, by comparison.

A thought occurred to me: Ask most women how much they pay to get their hair done, and how often, compared to how much they pay their gp, and how often. Personally, I pay my hairdresser €50 every 6 weeks. I do not see my doctor that often, thankfully.

Sarky

GP is a really, really f*cking hard job. They deserve every damn penny.

mikemac1

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I have no idea what those schemes are, I have never visited a GP past 5.

Depends where you are

If you are in Dublin you call Dubdoc
In the mid-west you call Shannondoc

The GP on the phone will go through the issue and if needed will call out

They cooperate on this so there is someone available to cover the area

RDM_83 again

fergalr wrote: »

Actually, I cannot understand, as a society, why we don't spend a lot more on health care. Good healthcare just makes such a huge difference to your life, when you need it. We spend so much resources on all sorts of rubbish, by comparison.


I would like if GPs were cheaper. I've never understood why we don't train a whole lot more doctors (I can't believe the marginal cost of training them is *that* high?), with some sort of student loan (to stop them leaving the country immeadiately after) and let the prices naturally decrease, increase the quality of life for the doctors, etc. We don't seem to have a shortage of people who would be doctors - but I guess its hard to know.
But that requires a big societial change in how we think about healthcare. Given the status quo, I'm glad GPs get paid as much as they do.

Finally, I'm talking paying for good doctors in this post; there's also a whole lot of bad doctors out there, but thats a whole other issue.

I've never understood this either I might hazard a guess as a protected influential profession it would not be a popular decision among those qualified higher ups (though that might be a bit conspiracy theory ish). However increasing the amount of medical students would be beneficial in bring wages down and would be beneficial for everybody involved, Junior Doctors get an average overtime payment of 43,000 a year (and from what I;ve heard its not a nice experience having to work that much) and long hours presumably have negative affects on ability, being a doctor is a position prestigious and worthwhile quite apart from the salary so I;m sure the majority wouldn;t mind having normal working hours and less pay.

In reference to the GP's issue and Seira Oscars posts, previously GP's were in an extremely lucrative position RE the famous GP's in Donegal, so maybe this is influencing their view of the present.

Source for pay this article
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=18717
pretty decent read

Richard Hillman

I nearly died a couple of years ago because I had to wait 4-5 days to get paid to afford a doctor. I went to doctor, he looked at me, told me what I already knew and told me to go to the hospital. Oh that's 60 quid by the way.

theg81der

fergalr wrote: »

Thirdly, GPs have a lot of costs. Secretary, rent, equipment were mentioned before; don't forget things like liability insurance, time spent doing paperwork etc. Theres also intangible costs; its a stressful job, if you were to make a mistake, people die; you see people die all the time, deal with people at their worst and lowest; at a level you are always at work.

They are partially government subsidised.

Further, there are opportunity costs; its a hard profession to get in to. Requires good schoolwork, long years at university, hard work, hard grind at college. Career in finance or law is probably much more rewarding, really, when you look at it; those are other careers accessible to people who end up as doctors. A member of my family is a GP, and its not a career I'd choose.

None of those other careers come with the status and power that being a GP does, you can`t value the satisfaction that comes with that to certain people.


Actually, I cannot understand, as a society, why we don't spend a lot more on health care. Good healthcare just makes such a huge difference to your life, when you need it. We spend so much resources on all sorts of rubbish, by comparison.

Its not a lack of spending, its a lack of value, we have a huge spend for the size of country.


I would like if GPs were cheaper. I've never understood why we don't train a whole lot more doctors (I can't believe the marginal cost of training them is *that* high?), with some sort of student loan (to stop them leaving the country immeadiately after) and let the prices naturally decrease, increase the quality of life for the doctors, etc. We don't seem to have a shortage of people who would be doctors - but I guess its hard to know.
But that requires a big societial change in how we think about healthcare. Given the status quo, I'm glad GPs get paid as much as they do.

Because the ones that here would go nuts, the shortage adds value to them, they can command a higher premium.

Finally, I'm talking paying for good doctors in this post; there's also a whole lot of bad doctors out there, but thats a whole other issue.

Can`t say I`ve ever come accross one sorry, maybe one or two who aren`t a complete disaster but thats it.

Mr.Wemmick

guppy wrote: »

A thought occurred to me: Ask most women how much they pay to get their hair done, and how often, compared to how much they pay their gp, and how often. Personally, I pay my hairdresser €50 every 6 weeks. I do not see my doctor that often, thankfully.

You pay for a service, and when your hair is done it's done. I once had a hairdressers make a mistake on my hair and I got a refund.

Paying for an excellent service via a good, intelligent Doctor is great but if the service and Doctor aren't great, and you have to pay every time you return because he/she doesn't quite know what is wrong with you, then it's hard going to say the least..

Gurdy

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid? Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures, some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

OP....

Have you ever actually visited a medical faculty and checked out what they research? It's in the interest of any university to find cures, discover new proteins, genes etc. The better the research the more grants they can get to do even bigger research. And it makes the university more reputable, and increases the impact factor of it's research.

What I'm basing this post on is not hear-say, my own assertions or some things I read on the internet. I'm basing it on what I've seen with my own eyes, in my medical school.

As for GP pay...I can understand that if you've had a bad experience with a GP, and you were left concerned about your health, you would feel like the GP is worthless. But, one bad GP does not speak for all the GPs in the country. Try another GP...who's highly recommended, and hopefully they can solve your health issue and you don't have to worry about it anymore