Physicist

CFC4lyfe

Hello

Just wondering how much of a mathematician you need to be for Physics? For example I do Ordinary Level maths and think I do quite well in it except for when the exams come up I wouldnt say Im a genius at them.

So I realise that whilst maths is needed, whats the level expected? Or needed?

Nitsuj

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

Hello

Just wondering how much of a mathematician you need to be for Physics? For example I do Ordinary Level maths and think I do quite well in it except for when the exams come up I wouldnt say Im a genius at them.

So I realise that whilst maths is needed, whats the level expected? Or needed?

For applied physics in DCU you don't need higher maths and only need like a C3 in a science subject.

But I'd imagine later on in your career you will need to be more than proficient in maths. I mean, from what I've seen, physics is very much based on maths, so...

CFC4lyfe

Nitsuj wrote: »

For applied physics in DCU you don't need higher maths and only need like a C3 in a science subject.

But I'd imagine later on in your career you will need to be more than proficient in maths. I mean, from what I've seen, physics is very much based on maths, so...

I understand physics but from viewing forums some say you only need to have a basic understanding of formulas and chapters of maths such as calculus etc. Was wondering if anyone here had any opinion on the matter? Thanks for your help btw:)

Dwellingdweller

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

I understand physics but from viewing forums some say you only need to have a basic understanding of formulas and chapters of maths such as calculus etc. Was wondering if anyone here had any opinion on the matter? Thanks for your help btw:)

Hey how's it going The importance of maths in Physics varies. It really depends on what you want to do in Physics, a lot of stuff in Physics is extremely conceptual and very little maths is involved but really, if you want to go on to do a doctorate in the subject or get into a prominent position, you're going to need to have excellent knowledge of pretty much all kinds of calculus/maths.

It depends on exactly which field of Physics you want to get into but Quantum Mechanics (the most rapidly expanding field) has tonnes and tonnes of maths. It's also an extremely abstract field, where words kinda fail and the only way to describe what's going in is through maths. Check out this article for a reference, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle it's the fundamental principle of Quantum Mechanics.

While that article makes it really really complicated I'm sure you wouldn't be expected to understand that straight away if you decided to do Physics in college :P What I would do is go on the webpage of the course you want to do and look up the subjects. But, I would say, even if there aren't many maths subjects/modules in a course, a mathematical perspective on topics would be expected of you. I personally find the mathematical concepts of QM and stuff like that fascinating but I know that it would take me quite a while to grasp them. I'd expect most people to be the same, and if you want to do Physics, don't let it stop you Physics might even awaken your interest in Maths!

CFC4lyfe

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Hey how's it going The importance of maths in Physics varies. It really depends on what you want to do in Physics, a lot of stuff in Physics is extremely conceptual and very little maths is involved but really, if you want to go on to do a doctorate in the subject or get into a prominent position, you're going to need to have excellent knowledge of pretty much all kinds of calculus/maths.

It depends on exactly which field of Physics you want to get into but Quantum Mechanics (the most rapidly expanding field) has tonnes and tonnes of maths. It's also an extremely abstract field, where words kinda fail and the only way to describe what's going in is through maths. Check out this article for a reference, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle it's the fundamental principle of Quantum Mechanics.

While that article makes it really really complicated I'm sure you wouldn't be expected to understand that straight away if you decided to do Physics in college :P What I would do is go on the webpage of the course you want to do and look up the subjects. But, I would say, even if there aren't many maths subjects/modules in a course, a mathematical perspective on topics would be expected of you. I personally find the mathematical concepts of QM and stuff like that fascinating but I know that it would take me quite a while to grasp them. I'd expect most people to be the same, and if you want to do Physics, don't let it stop you Physics might even awaken your interest in Maths!

Thanks alot for your answer there! The thing about Maths is that I always feel as if I'm on the verge of getting/understanding the whole course but then an exam comes up and shoots me down again. I like Maths which is good as you say Maths is almost the language of Physics. Seeing that you have a high knowledge of Physics could you give a bit of advice regarding this course?:)

http://www.gmit.ie/science/level-7-programmes/bsc-physics-instrument.html

With regards to the chances and knowledge of getting a job within the research field?

Dwellingdweller

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

Thanks alot for your answer there! The thing about Maths is that I always feel as if I'm on the verge of getting/understanding the whole course but then an exam comes up and shoots me down again. I like Maths which is good as you say Maths is almost the language of Physics. Seeing that you have a high knowledge of Physics could you give a bit of advice regarding this course?:)

http://www.gmit.ie/science/level-7-programmes/bsc-physics-instrument.html

With regards to the chances and knowledge of getting a job within the research field?

I wouldn't say that now. :P It's just an interest of mine (never really done that well in exams though, haha). Maths fascinates me too but I just have to work harder at it than most to get results, I don't mind that though.

I have to say, that course looks really good! Lovely selection of programme modules and everything. From what I know, a degree in Physics or Science from anywhere will pretty much open the door for you to get into research at some point in your career. I would suggest trying to get into a denominated Physics course in NUIG, TCD, or NUIM as those universities have big research budgets and you'll be able to carry on with a Masters and PhD there with a minimum of difficulty.

I think Undenominated Science would be great for you, as in NUIG there's a subject grouping which includes Physics, Applied Maths, Computer Science, and Maths, all of which tie in really really strongly to each other.

The only worry I'd have about going to GMIT, sooner or later you will probably have to migrate colleges to get your Masters and PhD, both of which are prerequisites for a place in a research team. A little bit of info about getting into research in a science field: a PhD is the basic prerequisite, if you have no industry experience. You'll work 2-3 years under the direction of a supervisor, and you might be offered a position leading a research team after a certain length of time. That's a massive simplification :P But it's a long road to get into research. Worth it though, if it's what you want to do

Anymore questions, feel free to ask.

CFC4lyfe

Yet again, really want to thank you for the help!

Is there a chance that there is any Uni course that I have missed out on for Physics? You mentioned NUIG there and it would be perfect but think most/all of their courses require a science subject which unfortunately I don't do.

Dwellingdweller

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

Yet again, really want to thank you for the help!

Is there a chance that there is any Uni course that I have missed out on for Physics? You mentioned NUIG there and it would be perfect but think most/all of their courses require a science subject which unfortunately I don't do.

No problem at all!
What I would suggest (and this might sound a little drastic), is to perhaps repeat and just take one science subject for matriculation purposes. Then you could go to NUIG/TCD/UCD/DCU if you wanted I'm not sure what your exact situation is so maybe it's not possible, but that's what I would suggest. You could also use the repeat year as an opportunity to do something you've always wanted to do, focus on going to the gym/playing music or whatever and just study an hour a day on your chosen subject.

djpbarry

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

I would suggest trying to get into a denominated Physics course in NUIG, TCD, or NUIM as those universities have big research budgets and you'll be able to carry on with a Masters and PhD there with a minimum of difficulty.

Undergraduate and postgraduate degrees are fundamentally different – there is absolutely no reason to consider postgraduate research opportunities when deciding where to do an undergrad.

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

The only worry I'd have about going to GMIT, sooner or later you will probably have to migrate colleges to get your Masters and PhD...

That really doesn’t matter, because a career in research absolutely guarantees working at different institutions.

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

A little bit of info about getting into research in a science field: a PhD is the basic prerequisite, if you have no industry experience. You'll work 2-3 years under the direction of a supervisor, and you might be offered a position leading a research team after a certain length of time. That's a massive simplification

It’s also grossly inaccurate. There is absolutely no way someone will complete a PhD in 2 years. Not unless they’re an absolute genius, that is. Three to four years is pretty standard, usually leaning towards the 4 year mark.

As for leading research teams, only a very small number of PhD students progress to being group leaders and that generally doesn’t happen until a PhD graduate has worked in one or two postdoc positions. Nobody goes straight from PhD student to group leader (unless they’re an absolute genius).

Dwellingdweller

djpbarry wrote: »

Undergraduate and postgraduate degrees are fundamentally different – there is absolutely no reason to consider postgraduate research opportunities when deciding where to do an undergrad.
That really doesn’t matter, because a career in research absolutely guarantees working at different institutions.
It’s also grossly inaccurate. There is absolutely no way someone will complete a PhD in 2 years. Not unless they’re an absolute genius, that is. Three to four years is pretty standard, usually leaning towards the 4 year mark.

As for leading research teams, only a very small number of PhD students progress to being group leaders and that generally doesn’t happen until a PhD graduate has worked in one or two postdoc positions. Nobody goes straight from PhD student to group leader (unless they’re an absolute genius).

If you read my post you'll see that I didn't say that anybody completes PhDs in two years. "Grossly inaccurate"? :pac: Lol. Relax man. I said that PhD students often go on (after they complete their PhD) to work under a supervisor for an extended amount of time (i.e 2-3 years).

The rest of what you have posted is pretty much common sense, as well. :P I'm at the exact same point as the OP in my education (i.e LC), and I'm only trying to help him out by posting in the thread; I don't really see what your post has contributed to this discussion, to be honest. But whatever, if what's been posted has helped OP, all the better.

djpbarry

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

I said that PhD students often go on (after they complete their PhD) to work under a supervisor for an extended amount of time (i.e 2-3 years).

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. A lot of PhD students never go on to do a post-doc. Those who do would be working as post-docs for a lot longer than 2-3 years in one or more positions - funding for post-doc positions is usually available for up to 6 years post-Phd graduation. Only a tiny percentage would then progress to being group leaders.

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

The rest of what you have posted is pretty much common sense...

Most of what I've posted is there to correct what you've posted.

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

I'm at the exact same point as the OP in my education (i.e LC)...

Well then maybe you should stop offering advice as though you are an authority on the subject? Most of what you have posted has been incorrect and misleading.

OP, if you want to be a physicist, then you will have to be strong at maths - there really is no getting away from it.

CFC4lyfe

In fairness to dwellingdweller he does seem to show he knows alot about Physics. Also, want to thank you for the answers you have given me djpb.

I asked on the Physics and Chemistry forum and they said to me that you basically dictate your own level. So thanks for the answers again, great help!

djpbarry

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

In fairness to dwellingdweller he does seem to show he knows alot about Physics.

The key word there is "seems".

If you really want to know what a career in physics entails, then go contact the physics department at whatever institution interests you.

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

I asked on the Physics and Chemistry forum and they said to me that you basically dictate your own level.

I suppose that is true to an extent, but there is a certain baseline level that you absolutely have to meet.

CFC4lyfe

djpbarry wrote: »

The key word there is "seems".

If you really want to know what a career in physics entails, then go contact the physics department at whatever institution interests you.
I suppose that is true to an extent, but there is a certain baseline level that you absolutely have to meet.

Yeah I'd be prepared for quite a bit of maths alright now. Though I would be confident that college would be a better place than school to focus on due to the lack of time with the Leaving Cert etc. Can I ask if you have much knowledge regarding Physics/Chemistry?

djpbarry

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

Yeah I'd be prepared for quite a bit of maths alright now. Though I would be confident that college would be a better place than school to focus on due to the lack of time with the Leaving Cert etc.

Don't think like that - invest the time now. Believe me, it will be worth it.

CFC4lyfe wrote: »

Can I ask if you have much knowledge regarding Physics/Chemistry?

I am surrounded by Chemists (Biochemists mostly) who, for the most part, have a poor understanding of maths. I also work with physicists, all of whom I would describe as being comfortable conversing mathematically.

At the end of the day, no matter what you choose to do with yourself, being mathematically literate will give you an advantage.