Ireland - Out with the old?

Ferris_Bueller

I notice everyone is leaving St.Ledger out of their teams, do you really think he's that bad? For Ireland anyways, I've always thought he's done a good, solid job.

G.K.

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

You want to make 10 changes to a starting XI? When has that ever worked?

Also, McGeady is far better than Hoolohan/Pilkington I don't know where all this vitriolic hate is coming from.

And Stephen Ireland can fcuk off.

I'd be building for 2016. This post sums up the gist of it.

If the same XI as now was kicking about then, I'd be very worried.

As for McGeady, it's personal preference.

SlickRic

why are people dropping Shay?

he'll be 38 by the next World Cup; plenty young for a goalie.

if he wants to stay on, he's still our best keeper.

i'm convinced he and Dunne have been injured for the last 2 games, as they did not perform to near the level they always do.

Renn

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

I notice everyone is leaving St.Ledger out of their teams, do you really think he's that bad? For Ireland anyways, I've always thought he's done a good, solid job.

Not really. Think he's been fortunate enough to still be in the team. Was all over the shop last night - positionally clueless.

CSF

buyer95 wrote: »

Lads a fella who rang in there has just said on Spin South West just there, " Looking at Aidan McGeady ,If I was in the stand last night I would have shot him!"

What a ****ing idiot

Rekop dog

Hoolahan is no spring chicken if the objective is to build for 2016...

Krusader

Hope Given stays on for the WC but would like, Duff, Keane, Dunne to call it a day. Would love to see Trap go and get a manager that can get us playing more positive football

kitakyushu

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

I notice everyone is leaving St.Ledger out of their teams, do you really think he's that bad? For Ireland anyways, I've always thought he's done a good, solid job.

His time with Ireland has reminded me of Alan Kernaghan. AK also got established as a first team player with Ireland but was never really the answer to our problems (and had is international career pretty much ended by Spain too). St. Ledger just holding the spot until someone decent hopefully comes through.

Renn

And that can speak the language that the players speak. I really think that's a big enough issue. He statements come across as bizarre - even the ones he makes in Italian. And Tardelli seemingly does the talking in training but he's not much better - struggled on Off the Ball the other night with the basics

Sanity_Saviour

G.K. wrote: »

I'd be building for 2016. This post sums up the gist of it.

If the same XI as now was kicking about then, I'd be very worried.

As for McGeady, it's personal preference.

This isn't Football Manager though, you can't just throw 11 players on the pitch and expect them to play well together. I know its for 2016, but that team will struggle to beat Austria, never mind the big teams.

To succeed at International level you need some degree of experience. Mason and Brady? Come off it. Also, if you get rid of Dunne who's our captain?

Personally this is the team I'd put out, as it mixes players with a realistic chance of succeeding internationally with those who have done it on a real stage.

Given
Wilson

---

Dunne

---

St. Ledger

---

Clark

McCarthy

---

Andrews
Coleman

---

McGeady

---

McClean
Keane/Long/Walters(depending on who we're playing)

G.K.

Rekop dog wrote: »

Hoolahan is no spring chicken if the objective is to build for 2016...

I realise this, but there aren't enough players in the mid-20's age group, imo. Pilkington is one but Hoolahan at the moment would 'get' this role far more - if Wes starts off the process by clearly defining the position it'd be easier for others to slot in. Same for Walters with Mason, Dunne wth Duffy, imo.

SlickRic wrote: »

why are people dropping Shay?

he'll be 38 by the next World Cup; plenty young for a goalie.

if he wants to stay on, he's still our best keeper.

i'm convinced he and Dunne have been injured for the last 2 games, as they did not perform to near the level they always do.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire tbh.

But I'd say Westwood needs to start building a long-term understanding with the defenders, who have to be as solid as Dunne has been.

G.K.

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

This isn't Football Manager though, you can't just throw 11 players on the pitch and expect them to play well together. I know its for 2016, but that team will struggle to beat Austria, never mind the big teams.

To succeed at International level you need some degree of experience. Mason and Brady? Come off it. Also, if you get rid of Dunne who's our captain?

Personally this is the team I'd put out, as it mixes players with a realistic chance of succeeding internationally with those who have done it on a real stage.

Given
Wilson

---

Dunne

---

St. Ledger

---

Clark

McCarthy

---

Andrews
Coleman

---

McGeady

---

McClean
Keane/Long/Walters(depending on who we're playing)

For one, I said Dunne stays, at least until Duffy is ready to take over..

'This isn't Football Manager though, you can't just throw 11 players on the pitch and expect them to play well together.'

Putting the Football Manager reference aside, I realise this. The point is if the players are played with long-term continuity then they will be able to play together, and develop an understanding. Trap was trying to do the same kind of thing, even if he was using the wrong players.

I know its for 2016, but that team will struggle to beat Austria, never mind the big teams.

It will today but as the players get more mature that won't be the case. They won't be the same players then. Long/McCarthy/Clark/Coleman will have had the benefits of playing a fixed system (And I mean system, not formation) for 4 years with emphasis on ball retention (Not posession, because the day is still a way off before Ireland will be able to do that against top clubs).

To succeed at International level you need some degree of experience.

Which they'll get from playing together for 4 years. Plus I'm not advocating gutting the squad completely, straight away. Some of the experienced guys (Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Duff) should be around in the short term at least, they just don't have to start.

Mason and Brady? Come off it.

Brady. In place of Hunt. Not hard.

Mason, a real talent. In place of Doyle/Cox who offer little more than him but are older, or Keane who should be phased out.

Personally this is the team I'd put out, as it mixes players with a realistic chance of succeeding internationally with those who have done it on a real stage.



Given
Wilson

---

Dunne

---

St. Ledger

---

Clark

McCarthy

---

Andrews
Coleman

---

McGeady

---

McClean
Keane/Long/Walters(depending on who we're playing)

Looks like a team for the 2014 qualifiers. I'd see that tournament as a write-off. Short term loss (Which I'm not even convinced it would be) for long term gain. In 2016, if the initiative is taken now, there could be a squad that kows a system well that will make them both hard to beat but not so poor in attack, by harnessing players with technical ability.

Slappa de Bass

Renn wrote: »

Not really. Think he's been fortunate enough to still be in the team. Was all over the shop last night - positionally clueless.

To be fair, the whole team looked like that. It's down to poor tactics and mismanagement. I know they are not a good team right now, but they are good enough to compose themselves and not be running away from the ball and getting caught with stupid mistakes, which is what it looked like to me. Trapattoni is telling them to do the wrong things. O'Shea, McGeady, Keane, St Ledger, Ward - all without purpose on the field, just running around like headless chickens hoping to come across the ball and make something out of nothing.

Trap needs to go.

stesaurus

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

This isn't Football Manager though, you can't just throw 11 players on the pitch and expect them to play well together.

That's pretty much international football in general. 23 players meet up a few days before a couple of qualifiers a few times a year and are expected to gel.
Not all nations are going to be lucky enough to have the majority of their players playing at club level together.

*Warning* random wandering thoughts ahead...
I'd love to have a coaching setup that comes in with some long term plans for the squad. Ideally you want to U21's and lower to play the same system and their manager/coach form a part of the overall senior setup so that a continuity and general prouction line can happen.
I'd love if the B internationals made a come back also. That would definitely help with blooding in the likes of a Hoolihan who's over 21 but needs to be integrated into the senior setup.

Take a squad of 40 players and play a 20 man squad in the B match on the night before in the same city. That way the 40 players all get to train together and have a better chance of impressing/staking a claim for senior inclusion. Competition for places would be stronger but you would still hopefully maintain a squad harmony and not a case of johnny come latelies

Is Givens still the U21 manager by the way? How the hell is he still employed if he is.

Danye

Renn wrote: »

Not really. Think he's been fortunate enough to still be in the team. Was all over the shop last night - positionally clueless.

To be fair to St. Ledger I think anybody playing against Spain would of been ran ragged. Even some of the best defenders in the world have been made look average by Spain's intricate passing and movement.

G.K.

I'd still have Sledge about, I'd just rather Clark/Duffy were they way forward.

devotional1993

kitakyushu wrote: »

I'd love him back but why should he bother after the way (as I saw it anyway) he was vilified over Saipan and practically hounded out of the job.

Yep youre right.Treated like dirt by the end. I can still remember the "keano keano" chanting at Lansdowne rd v Switzerland.

Orando Broom

devotional1993 wrote: »

Yep youre right.Treated like dirt by the end. I can still remember the "keano keano" chanting at Lansdowne rd v Switzerland.

He did make the rod for his back. He wasn't all blameless.

Fromthetrees

Ireland has a lot of soccer supporters, that should be tapped into more. More LoI coverage is a good way to go. There should be 2 live games on a week, extensive coverage of all the games, loads of analysis and all that.

There's enough soccer junkies to tap into but a lot of people are just lazy, lure them in rather than hope of getting them to come looking. A ticket to go and see Cork City is 12 euro and a ticket to see Borussia Dortmund is 15 euro, it doesn't make sense.

If the league is improved the national team will improve, we have to try and build some sort of a football culture here other than looking exclusively to Britain. The GAA and Rugby have a brilliant culture around there respective sports, lets study how they do it for a start. I'm sure the current situation can be improved compared to what we have now, how much is the question.

Get rid of Delaney and any other goons around him, bring some serious people in and come up with a plan to improve the league, training facilities, fan base ect. ect.


John Delaney rant...
He's on 430,000 euro a year, over 4 times what the current league of Ireland champions will receive.
He said he'd appoint 'a world class manager' and appointed Staunton who had no previous managerial experience.
He (the FAI) refused to sanction a friendly between Limerick and Barcelona in Thomond Park.
Roy Keane hates him, that point can go either way.
He ran onto the pitch in Estonia when we beat them in the qualifiers as if he had actually won the game for us, and threw his tie into the crowd as if he's some sort of ****ing rock star.
He asked to be the 33rd team in WC 2010, jesus like.
He laughed when we got drawn against Estonia to the world which is idiotic and really shows up just how unprofessional he is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxZ-CNzVYk0

and this last bit is copy and pasted,

Delaney, in his role of FAI treasurer, consistently undermined then FAI General Secretary Brendan Menton during his tenure in office. On several occasions, he approached and even offered terms to rival companies of those which then sponsored the FAI; almost all of his "deals" were at lowers terms than that with their then sponsors. Delaney has also overseen numerous loss making ticket schemes within the FAI, an administrative ineptitude which he evidentially has inherited from his ticket touting father, John Snr. Undeterred by FIFA security concerns, he purchased tickets from unofficial sources for an away game in Estonia in November 2011. Prior to the game, he gave away the tickets and gave away over €2,000 of free drink at a bar (out of his own pocket); the same day saw FAI staff being made redundant as he partied with genuine Irish soccer fans. Delaney is also well known for his grudge against Shelbourne FC and has fined the club on several occasions for daring to sing songs about him.



By removing this man we can start a fresh and properly plan for the future, both domestically and internationally.

G.K.

Dortmund tickets are 15 euro?

Orando Broom

Do LOI fans want a load of Johnny come latelys joining their ranks? I get the feeling that many like the auslander tag associated with being a league die-hard.

That's not a criticism, just an observation.

Fromthetrees

G.K. wrote: »

Dortmund tickets are 15 euro?

Ja, das ist richtig.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/apr/11/bundesliga-premier-league

Thread about season ticket prices here, season tickets work out really cheap in Germany compared to anywhere, including the LoI. :eek:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73484839

Fromthetrees

Orando Broom wrote: »

Do LOI fans want a load of Johnny come latelys joining their ranks? I get the feeling that many like the auslander tag associated with being a league die-hard.

Tate's not a criticism, just an observation.

Jeepers creepers we're not talking about the IRA and the UVF here, just Irish soccer fans watching soccer, that's about it.

Father Damo

The_B_Man wrote: »

We'd get in **** if we put out a "B" team. There'd be uproar as it would be seen as an Italian manager putting out a weak team to guarantee Italy getting a win and progressing! Could you imagine it???? :eek::eek:

An Italian trying to fix a match?

:eek:

You jest, surely :pac:


I agree though, might be no harm resting a few of the old guard and actually testing the new blood in competitive action. If anything the likes of McClea, Long and Westwood, lads who need to prove their worth to the manager, would arguably go more hell for leather for a result to prove themselves than the disheartened first choices.

event

I'm amazed at some peoples posts/opinions, really I am.

Richard Dunne should be kept, no way should he be disgarded. he is only 32 at the moment. He could easily play for another 3 or 4 years, he doesn't look to be losing a massive amount of pace and its always been his heading/positioning that has made him a quality defender.

Shay given is probably Irelands best ever keeper. He is 36, has a good two years in him yet. He had a bad tournament but he's obviously not fit. I wouldn't be getting rid yet.

John o Shea is 31. I've seen someone say he should be ditched. Are ye serious??

Robbie Keane. People are going to get a massive shock when he eventually retires from international football. I think people think that scoring at international level is easy, that someone else will just pick up the bat. He's had a poor time at this tournament (still our top goal scorer in qualifying) but id put that down to his club form. Id be hopeful he'll move back from the US. Our current strikers will all work hard, but none are consistent at sticking it in the net, which Keane has always been. Lets look at stats, which are the easiest thing to look at in a striker.

walters - games - 393. Goals - 78. International Level - 9 games, 1 goal.
Cox - games - 161. Goals - 53. International level - 14 games, 3 goals.
Long - games - 234. Goals - 62. internal level - 26 games, 7 goals

none exactly inspire confidence that they are going to start scoring a massive amount at international level. FWIW, i reckon Long is our best bet. But the abuse Keane gets at time baffles me. We will be f*cked when he leaves IMO

Everyone is talking about Shane Duffy too. Now he is supposed to be a good player and all, but I wouldnt be talking about dropping the likes of Dunne for a kid who has played just over a game in the premiership. lets see how he develops a bit before trusting him with that lads. Same with Clark, played just 13 times in the PL last year. having those two in defence for the next friendly could be a disaster and destroy confidence in them

Also, some people saying get rid of Trap? to be replaced with Keane?? Putting aside the fact he will never work the the FAI and a lot of players blatantly dont like him, its madness. Roy Keane has yet to really prove himself as a manager. We could take a punt on him (last time we took a punt on a young manager, how did that go?) but it would be wrong. So seriously, who could we realistically get, with the wages we would offer. Bear in mind Denis O Brien cant be relied on forever and has indicated he only subsidizes the wages of Trap as he likes him as a manager.

I think people are panicing a bit. Its all still a bit raw after the hammerings by Spain and Croatia. You don't rip up a blueprint that has worked (to an extent) just over 2 games.
What I would like to see from Trap is a bit of flexibility from him regarding formations and I think we will see that in the next campaign. But there wont be wholesale changes to the squad unless there is a raft of retirements. And the only one I can even contemplating that would be given, if his injury problems are a lot worse than we are led to believe.

Father Damo

event wrote: »

I'm amazed at some peoples posts/opinions, really I am.

Richard Dunne should be kept, no way should he be disgarded. he is only 32 at the moment. He could easily play for another 3 or 4 years, he doesn't look to be losing a massive amount of pace and its always been his heading/positioning that has made him a quality defender.

Shay given is probably Irelands best ever keeper. He is 36, has a good two years in him yet. He had a bad tournament but he's obviously not fit. I wouldn't be getting rid yet.

John o Shea is 31. I've seen someone say he should be ditched. Are ye serious??

Agreed.

Robbie Keane. People are going to get a massive shock when he eventually retires from international football. I think people think that scoring at international level is easy, that someone else will just pick up the bat. He's had a poor time at this tournament (still our top goal scorer in qualifying) but id put that down to his club form. Id be hopeful he'll move back from the US. Our current strikers will all work hard, but none are consistent at sticking it in the net, which Keane has always been. Lets look at stats, which are the easiest thing to look at in a striker.

Have to disagree here. He has been a great servant but he is playing in an inferior league against inferior opposition compared to what he has to deal with at international level, he should be gently persuaded to pass on the captaincy and leave himself in a play on merits role, rather than being guaranteed a start in every match because he holds the armband. He was very, very disappointing in these games, and I just have that feeling a younger, fitter, hungrier player is needed.

walters - games - 393. Goals - 78. International Level - 9 games, 1 goal.
Cox - games - 161. Goals - 53. International level - 14 games, 3 goals.
Long - games - 234. Goals - 62. internal level - 26 games, 7 goals

You must remember a great chunk of these matches they were not on a full 90 minutes, they are new players being blooded in so tbh I would be looking at their club records more than their international goal record.

Also, some people saying get rid of Trap? to be replaced with Keane?? Putting aside the fact he will never work the the FAI and a lot of players blatantly dont like him, its madness. Roy Keane has yet to really prove himself as a manager. We could take a punt on him (last time we took a punt on a young manager, how did that go?) but it would be wrong. So seriously, who could we realistically get, with the wages we would offer. Bear in mind Denis O Brien cant be relied on forever and has indicated he only subsidizes the wages of Trap as he likes him as a manager. [/quotes]

Keane is an atrocious man manager and should be allowed nowhere near the squad.

event

Father Damo wrote: »

Have to disagree here. He has been a great servant but he is playing in an inferior league against inferior opposition compared to what he has to deal with at international level, he should be gently persuaded to pass on the captaincy and leave himself in a play on merits role, rather than being guaranteed a start in every match because he holds the armband. He was very, very disappointing in these games, and I just have that feeling a younger, fitter, hungrier player is needed.

yeah id sorta agree. he should not be guaranteed a start (wouldnt have him as captain) but id still have him in the squad.

You must remember a great chunk of these matches they were not on a full 90 minutes, they are new players being blooded in so tbh I would be looking at their club records more than their international goal record.

well i did mention their club record too. none have really scored much throughout their career on a consistent basis.

noodler

Its not like Keane hasn't scored for Ireland for years....he was our top scorer in the last two qualification campaigns.

His end is nearing but I really don't see any justification for dropping based on goal return.

I really hope the retirements don't get silly.

Danye

Father Damo wrote: »

Have to disagree here. He has been a great servant but he is playing in an inferior league against inferior opposition compared to what he has to deal with at international level, he should be gently persuaded to pass on the captaincy and leave himself in a play on merits role, rather than being guaranteed a start in every match because he holds the armband. He was very, very disappointing in these games, and I just have that feeling a younger, fitter, hungrier player is needed.

This is one of the problems international managers face. Do they stay loyal to their tried and trusted players even when they have a dip in form or drop them?

I personally don't think international managers should be loyal to players. He needs to play the players who are in the best form in their current position and then take into consideration the standard they are playing at.

kitakyushu

Regarding Keane it's worth noting that his goals drying up for Ireland has coincided precisely with his move to LA Galaxy. He's only scored in 1 game out of the last 11 for Ireland since his move in Aug2011. I've no doubt this is not a coincidence.

I'd be happy to keep him in the squad for another campaign but not while he's playing in MLS. If he persists in playing in that "retirement league" then should he have done with it and make way for Long or one of the others.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

Regarding Keane it's worth noting that his goals drying up for Ireland has coincided precisely with his move to LA Galaxy. He's only scored in 1 game out of the last 11 for Ireland since his move in Aug2011. I've no doubt this is not a coincidence.

Well he scored two against Estonia for a start so its not one goal as you say.

Has anyone scored more than him during that very narrow time period you are using to measure him by?

aindriu80

I think we lost badly at the tournament because of club vs country situation we have in Ireland.

We don't support the league enough and results/facilities/players ability/supporters mentality could be a lot better. At the end of the day unless clubs and country are used to competing in major European on a regular basis we have get everything out of England and we effectively become the England B team.

Anything we DO achieve at a major European competition can only be based on what we do at home as the distances involved are so short that it is very hard to relate the competition any other way. For us to properly compete like has to go with like and that means putting in the content somewhere. The content is the league and for a better word a tramping ground. The world cup is different however, its bigger and the standard is a bit lower which does give us a bit of a break. It means that the country can really see our team on T.V and can fully support and celebrate the cause.

Shay Given may have ended his international career or at least thought about it but he froze a lot in the last 2 games and the players looked lost. It was a very timid affair and the Spanish did nothing but make light of it.

Father Damo

kitakyushu wrote: »

Regarding Keane it's worth noting that his goals drying up for Ireland has coincided precisely with his move to LA Galaxy. He's only scored in 1 game out of the last 11 for Ireland since his move in Aug2011. I've no doubt this is not a coincidence.

I'd be happy to keep him in the squad for another campaign but not while he's playing in MLS. If he persists in playing in that "retirement league" then should he have done with it and make way for Long or one of the others.

Indeed. Scored what, 4 in 9 odd games at Villa?

He might still have it but he needs to keep fresh and the MLS is not the place to do it. There was talk that letting him free score and run rings around inferior players in the US would be good for his confidence.

Evidently, that was bollix

G.K.

If gunning for the WC, I'd probably keep Keane around.

As I think Ireland should write-off WC 2014 to prepare for the future, Keane, Dunne, Duff, O'Shea etc must start to be phased out in the next campaign.

Renn

WC is out of the question IMO. Tougher group this time round and just don't have the quality there to make it through. May as well start from the beginning and get rid of Keane, Dunne, Given, Duff and co.

noodler

G.K. wrote: »

If gunning for the WC, I'd probably keep Keane around.

As I think Irealand should write-off WC 2014 to prepare for the future, Keane, Dunne, Duff, O'Shea etc must start to be phased out in the next campaign.

I am sorry but is a ****ing retarded idea.

Where do people get the idea that it will be necessary to write-off a campaign? They are all professional footballers, they all train regularly and hopefully play regularly.

It will be the manager's job to ensure the transition is smooth and the transition will be during 10 qualifiers over around 14 months.

Renn wrote: »

WC is out of the question IMO. Tougher group this time round and just don't have the quality there to make it through. May as well start from the beginning and get rid of Keane, Dunne, Given, Duff and co.

What in our group scares you exactly?

Sweden are our main competition for a runners-up spot. Their 35 years old defenders are retiring (most likely) after their exit from the Euros.

Hoenstly, Germany are the toughest 1st seed we have had for a number of campaigns but that shouldn't have any impact on our ability to compete for second as we always do.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Well he scored two against Estonia for a start so its not one goal as you say.

Has anyone scored more than him during that very narrow time period you are using to measure him by?

Where did I say that? Don't want to go off on a Liam Brady but at least quote me correctly.

Also what other players do is irrelevant. Keane is put in the team to score goals and since he moved to LA Galaxy he has barely done that. If all you can do to defend Keanes poor return is say others have scored less then that's really no argument. Never mind that one of his goals was a pen and the other strikers almost certainly haven't been given as much game time as him.

BTW, the 'narrow time period' refects his season at LA Galaxy. By comparison the narrow time period before that (season 10/11) he scored in six games out of nine (or 8 goals in 9 games as you prefer it).

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

Where did I say that? Don't want to go off on a Liam Brady but at least quote me correctly.

I apologise.

I went back and read your quote again and I realise you say he has only scored in one Ireland game since August 2011.

Still, he has scored two goals for Ireland since 2011 which is more than anyone else over the time period as far as I can remember.

kitakyushu wrote: »

Also what other players do is irrelevant. Keane is put in the team to score goals and since he moved to LA Galaxy he has barely done that. If all you can do to defend Keanes poor return is say others have scored less then that's really no argument.

Top goal scorer in our WC 2010 campaign.

Top goalscorer in our Euro 2012 campaign.

Poor return?

Really?

Renn

Doyle has two since August 2011.

Danye

G.K. wrote: »

If gunning for the WC, I'd probably keep Keane around.

As I think Ireland should write-off WC 2014 to prepare for the future, Keane, Dunne, Duff, O'Shea etc must start to be phased out in the next campaign.

Again it's very hard for International teams to start preparing for the future. They have to play the hand they are dealt. It's very hard for them to prepare for the future when they have no direct involvement with the development of players.

Which in Ireland's case might be a good thing.

G.K.

noodler wrote: »

I am sorry but is a ****ing retarded idea.

Where do people get the idea that it will be necessary to write-off a campaign? They are all professional footballers, they all train regularly and hopefully play regularly.

It will be the manager's job to ensure the transition is smooth and the transition will be during 10 qualifiers over around 14 months.



What in our group scares you exactly?

Sweden are our main competition for a runners-up spot. Their 35 years old defenders are retiring (most likely) after their exit from the Euros.

Hoenstly, Germany are the toughest 1st seed we have had for a number of campaigns but that shouldn't have any impact on our ability to compete for second as we always do.

When I say write-off, that makes it sound extreme. Perhaps I should have said Ireland needs to be prepared that qualification is unlikely but should be looking beyond the next tournament.

If Ireland go out and play Given/O'Shea/Dunne/Sledge/Ward/Andrews/Whelan/Keane/McGeady/Duff/Doyle and don't qualify, then there'll be huge trouble.

G.K.

Danye wrote: »

Again it's very hard for International teams to start preparing for the future. They have to play the hand they are dealt. It's very hard for them to prepare for the future when they have no direct involvement with the development of players.

Which in Ireland's case might be a good thing.

What do you think about keeping the likes of Duff/Dunne/Keane etc.. on?

djPSB

My team for the easier World Cup Qualifiers would be:

---

Given

Coleman----Dunne--Ledger---O'Shea


McGeady---McCarthy---Andrews--McClean

---

Keane

---

Long

And then when we come up against Sweeden and Germany or teams that could dominate us in midfield, I would go with:

---

Given

Coleman----Dunne--Ledger---O'Shea

---

McCarthy

McGeady---Gibson---Andrews--McClean

---

Walters

It's hard to know why our tournament went so pear shaped. The players bottled it, they looked very nervous and seemed to feel the pressure.

The majority of the goals conceeded were caused by individual errors which were non existent in qualifying.

Keano

noodler wrote: »

I apologise.

I went back and read your quote again and I realise you say he has only scored in one Ireland game since August 2011.

Still, he has scored two goals for Ireland since 2011 which is more than anyone else over the time period as far as I can remember.



Top goal scorer in our WC 2010 campaign.

Top goalscorer in our Euro 2012 campaign.

Poor return?

Really?

His record for Ireland is fantastic and he has got us some very crucial goals. My worry is that how long will Trap stick with him. Keane is obviously struggling playing in a poor league but while Trap keeps faith in him it means the likes of Long and Walters are not getting a reasonable spell in the team.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Doyle has two since August 2011.

For Ireland?

What games? Andorra (A) is all I can think about.


Btw, Keane's record:

WC 2010

Vs:

(H) Cyprus (1)
(H) Georgia (2)
(A) Italy (1)
(A) Cyprus (1)
(A) France (1)

EURO 2012

Vs:

(H) Andorra (1)
(H) Russia (1)
(H) Macedonia (1)
(A) Macedonia (2)
(A) Estonia (2)


So 13 competitive goals under Trap or just over 50% of total competitive goals.



Lets not be blase about this. Any argument for dropping Keane has to assume that the alternatives will replace this tally with Trap's current system.



Keane is on the decline, no doubt, but he has deserved to start up until now and any decision on the future should take into consideration what he has managed to achieve within Trap's system whilst regularly looking fairly anonymous.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

I apologise.

I went back and read your quote again and I realise you say he has only scored in one Ireland game since August 2011.

Still, he has scored two goals for Ireland since 2011 which is more than anyone else over the time period as far as I can remember.



Top goal scorer in our WC 2010 campaign.

Top goalscorer in our Euro 2012 campaign.

Poor return?

Really?

He was also top scorer in our 2000, 2006 and 2008 (joint) campaigns. No one is knocking his goal-scoring record for Ireland.

I'm making the point that Keane's goals have dried up since he went to LA Galaxy and that he shouldn't be this automatic name on the team-sheet while he persists on playing in MLS.

noodler

Keano A Legend wrote: »

His record for Ireland is fantastic and he has got us some very crucial goals. My worry is that how long will Trap stick with him. Keane is obviously struggling playing in a poor league but while Trap keeps faith in him it means the likes of Long and Walters are not getting a reasonable spell in the team.

This is the crux of the issue.

You have to imagine that, as he is on the decline, there will come a very obvious point over the next campaign that he will no longer warrent a start.

My only criticism here is people complaining he should be dropped because he doesn't do enough in games. People have been making that argument for years and he keeps scoring.

It will be Trap's job to work out the balance, assuming he does not retire.

djPSB

noodler wrote: »

This is the crux of the issue.

You have to imagine that, as he is on the decline, there will come a very obvious point over the next campaign that he will no longer warrent a start.

My only criticism here is people complaining he should be dropped because he doesn't do enough in games. People have been making that argument for years and he keeps scoring.

It will be Trap's job to work out the balance, assuming he does not retire.

The fact that a player is struggling for their club or playing in a poor league is irrelevant.

Players like Torres, Bendtner, Carroll and Shevchenko have indicated that during this years tournament.

Orando Broom

noodler wrote: »

This is the crux of the issue.

You have to imagine that, as he is on the decline, there will come a very obvious point over the next campaign that he will no longer warrent a start.

My only criticism here is people complaining he should be dropped because he doesn't do enough in games. People have been making that argument for years and he keeps scoring.

It will be Trap's job to work out the balance, assuming he does not retire.

I'd be worried that Keane would become undroppable despite what I believe is a serious decline due to his move to Galaxy. I think he simply does not look fit. Beecham is more of a self starter than Robbie and I think if he was out playing in the back garden he be fit and sharp. Robbie I think needs the discipline of rigorous training. I'd worry for him. Subbed in five of his last six games for Ireland. Unprecedented also going close to his record scoreless streak but this time he's older and has lost a little sharpness.

noodler

djPSB wrote: »

The fact that a player is struggling for their club or playing in a poor league is irrelevant.

Players like Torres, Bendtner, Carroll and Shevchenko have indicated that during this years tournament.

Orando Broom wrote: »

I'd be worried that Keane would become undroppable despite what I believe is a serious decline due to his move to Galaxy. I think he simply does not look fit. Beecham is more of a self starter than Robbie and I think if he was out playing in the back garden he be fit and sharp. Robbie I think needs the discipline of rigorous training. I'd worry for him. Subbed in five of his last six games for Ireland. Unprecedented also going close to his record scoreless streak but this time he's older and has lost a little sharpness.

True enough.

Although, he is only three competitive games without a goal.

And two of those games were Spain and Croatia.