Ireland - Out with the old?

Danye

G.K. wrote: »

What do you think about keeping the likes of Duff/Dunne/Keane etc.. on?

Personally I would keep them all in the squad. There experience would be good to have plus they could still do a job or be an impact sub in terms of Duff and Keane.

I think we have McClean as a direct replacement for Duff. I would probably keep Keane in the starting XI but I would make it very clear that if he wasn't finding the back of the net he would be dropped. Dunne is a certainty to start. Regardless of age he is still our best defender by a mile.

WallyGUFC

Looking back, was there a single game in Trap's four years apart from Spain on Monday night that we didn't play a rigid 442? Shocking stuff. He failed to recognise the obvious issues with the formation, and he aint changing now. 2 more years of this crap, Germany and possibly Sweden will destroy us.

noodler

WallyGUFC wrote: »

2 more years of this crap, Germany and possibly Sweden will destroy us.

Why on earth would Sweden destroy us?

Ferris_Bueller

I've noticed in this thread and a few other ones that David Meylers name is getting mentioned a lot ahead of the WC qualifiers. I haven't seen him play myself, but is there any chance that people are over hyping him? He hasn't really played any first team football in the past year, just back from a serious injury. I think Irish fans have a tendency to build players up to be better than they are when they aren't in the squad. Something I noticed about Steven Reid for years, a good player no doubt, but we went on about him as if he was a player who really would have had a massive impact on the team.

Francie Barrett

noodler wrote: »

Why on earth would Sweden destroy us?

I think he means Ibra will destroy us

devotional1993

and of course Seamus Coleman is our messi for gods sake

Anybody hear Richard Dunne on newstalk-The guy sounded so down and out. Talking about lets not concede in the first few minutes. Failed to answer if Given was calling it a day after the Euros.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Why on earth would Sweden destroy us?

Well they were in the lead in both games they lost and Ireland aren't exactly doing to trouble their defense to the level Ukraine and England did.

spudwiser

devotional1993 wrote: »

Failed to answer if Given was calling it a day after the Euros.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12020/7817418/Shay-to-give-in

TaosHum

kitakyushu wrote: »

Well they were in the lead in both games they lost and Ireland aren't exactly doing to trouble their defense to the level Ukraine and England did.

To be fair though, they have not played the same quality of opposition that Ireland have either. Ukraine are not as good as Croatia and England aren't near the level of Spain.

Sweden also had terrible trouble dealing with the long ball and crosses last night. They don't hold on the ball well either (although they do hold onto it better than Ireland).

Their team is also quite old, with Ibrahimovich, Mellberg, Elmander, Svensson and Isaksson all 30 or older.

I still think they are a better side than Ireland, but they are very beatable and the type of side we could do well against, as they aren't the most technical.

Danye

devotional1993 wrote: »

Failed to answer if Given was calling it a day after the Euros.

I think it would be wrong and disrespectful for another player to comment on his team mates decision on whether he was going to retire or not.

He shouldn't retire. He is our best keeper by a mile who maybe had one bad game against Croatia in how many years?

Renn

Bad game vs Croatia, bad game vs Spain and most likely knew he wasn't fit so wasn't doing the team a favour by declaring himself fit. Probably just a case of pure selfishness which wouldn't be the first time he's done something like that.

kitakyushu

Renn wrote: »

Bad game vs Croatia, bad game vs Spain and most likely knew he wasn't fit so wasn't doing the team a favour by declaring himself fit. Probably just a case of pure selfishness which wouldn't be the first time he's done something like that.

McAteer did the same thing in WC2002.

Players seem to think it's their right or that it's somehow noble to play with a knock when the net result is they just end up putting in a weak performance and jeapordising the team. We'll never know but I feel myself that a fit Westwood wouldn't have let in 7 over these two games.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

Well they were in the lead in both games they lost and Ireland aren't exactly doing to trouble their defense to the level Ukraine and England did.

We have played about 28 competitive games under Trap.

Spain and Russia are the only teams to have ever "destroyed us" and only Spain could turn that dominance into a hiding on the scoreboard.

Hoenstly people, Croatia and Spain are arguably the two toughest games we have played under Trap.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Bad game vs Croatia, bad game vs Spain and most likely knew he wasn't fit so wasn't doing the team a favour by declaring himself fit. Probably just a case of pure selfishness which wouldn't be the first time he's done something like that.

That is a disgraceful thing to say.

Especially when you haven't a fcuking clue one way or the other.

willowthewisp

Renn wrote: »

Bad game vs Croatia, bad game vs Spain and most likely knew he wasn't fit so wasn't doing the team a favour by declaring himself fit. Probably just a case of pure selfishness which wouldn't be the first time he's done something like that.

Think you could put O'Shea in that bracket too.

Renn

noodler wrote: »

That is a disgraceful thing to say.

Especially when you haven't a fcuking clue one way or the other.

Disgraceful

So you think that it's perfectly okay to say you're fit and able to play when clearly you're not? Hard to say who's to blame here but I'll go with the safe option of Given and Trap. Of course I'm guessing but I think what I'm saying isn't really a crazy assumption.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Disgraceful

So you think that it's perfectly okay to say you're fit and able to play when clearly you're not? Hard to say who's to blame here but I'll go with the safe option of Given and Trap. Of course I'm guessing but I think what I'm saying isn't really a crazy assumption.

Its not okay for you to make several assumptions in order to make an attack on somebody's character.

You don't know.

Banjaxed82

There's no such thing as robbie Keane the impact sub. If he's not starting then he's.. outta here!

Other side of the coin... As long as Keane starts, any lone attacker system will always be flawed. 4-4-2 it is so.

Orando Broom

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

There's no such thing as robbie Keane the impact sub. If he's not starting then he's.. outta here!

Other side of the coin... As long as Keane starts, any lone attacker system will always be flawed. 4-4-2 it is so.

I think so too. But I think unless he gets back to Eurpoe he will not have the required sharpness we need off Robbie. I'd love to see him back this side of the water because I believe he certainly has is World Cup campaign left in him, provided he is much fitter than he currently is.

gerryo777

Orando Broom wrote: »

I think so too. But I think unless he gets back to Eurpoe he will not have the required sharpness we need off Robbie. I'd love to see him back this side of the water because I believe he certainly has is World Cup campaign left in him, provided he is much fitter than he currently is.

Robbie Keane is a fake, the big man for the little game.
When he is really needed he goes missing, captain my arse!

Orando Broom

gerryo777 wrote: »

Robbie Keane is a fake, the big man for the little game.
When he is really needed he goes missing, captain my arse!

France, Italy and Germany. Big goals in big games, that is just three I can name off immediately. Holland in Amsterdam. E Penalty against Spain. Come off it. The guy has been a legend for Ireland.

gerryo777

Orando Broom wrote: »

France, Italy and Germany. Big goals in big games, that is just three I can name off immediately. Holland in Amsterdam. E Penalty against Spain. Come off it. The guy has been a legend for Ireland.

He's gone to take the American dollar because no team in the premiership or in Europe think he's good enough.
It's time to move on....

Renn

noodler wrote: »

Its not okay for you to make several assumptions in order to make an attack on somebody's character.

You don't know.

Did he look fit to you? Was he training much before the tournament? Were there doubts about his fitness?

CSF

gerryo777 wrote: »

Robbie Keane is a fake, the big man for the little game.
When he is really needed he goes missing, captain my arse!

Seriously, you haven't watched the Irish team for years before this Euro 2012. Stop posting about them, go have a nice cup of tea, make yourself something to eat, maybe even have a few cans, have a lovely night. All better options than spending the night talking crap about something you clearly haven't a clue about.

Robbie Keane deserves nothing but the utmost respect from anyone from this country.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Did he look fit to you? Was he training much before the tournament? Were there doubts about his fitness?

So what you want is to:

1) Assume that he only let in soft goals because he was unfit

2) Assuming point 1, you then want to assume that he lied to all and sundry about his fitness.

3) Then, assuming point 1 and 2, you want to assume that the reason he lied is because he ie selfish

4) Then you want to assume he has some sort of track record of being selfish.


Yeah, like I said, you have no fcuking idea either way.

gerryo777

CSF wrote: »

Seriously, you haven't watched the Irish team for years before this Euro 2012. Stop posting about them, go have a nice cup of tea, make yourself something to eat, maybe even have a few cans, have a lovely night. All better options than spending the night talking crap about something you clearly haven't a clue about.

Robbie Keane deserves nothing but the utmost respect from anyone from this country.

In your humble opinion!

You know nothing about me or how long I've been supporting the Irish team, so STFU!

I'm entitled to my opinion on the guy as much as the next man.

event

gerryo777 wrote: »

Robbie Keane is a fake, the big man for the little game.
When he is really needed he goes missing, captain my arse!

the mind really f*cking boggles

noodler

gerryo777 wrote: »

In your humble opinion!

You know nothing about me or how long I've been supporting the Irish team, so STFU!

I'm entitled to my opinion on the guy as much as the next man.

Yeah but your opinions can't possibly be based on any sort of empirical evidence about Keane's contribution to Ireland over the years, particularly the last 4.

So CSF would be right to call you out on such ill-informed drivel.

Renn

noodler wrote: »

So what you want is to:

1) Assume that he only let in soft goals because he was unfit

2) Assuming point 1, you then want to assume that he lied to all and sundry about his fitness.

3) Then, assuming point 1 and 2, you want to assume that the reason he lied is because he ie selfish

4) Then you want to assume he has some sort of track record of being selfish.


Yeah, like I said, you have no fcuking idea either way.

Weak job at answering my questions. Try again.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Weak job at answering my questions. Try again.

Sorry, pal, you can't answer my questions with questions and then cry foul.

You made up a story about Shay Given and now you are being called on it.

Grow up and take it like a man.

gerryo777

noodler wrote: »

Yeah but your opinions can't possibly be based on any sort of empirical evidence about Keane's contribution to Ireland over the years, particularly the last 4.

So CSF would be right to call you out on such ill-informed drivel.

I see the RK supporters club are online so I'll leave ya's to it.
If you can't see what's staring you in the face, that's your problem.

Orando Broom

gerryo777 wrote: »

In your humble opinion!

You know nothing about me or how long I've been supporting the Irish team, so STFU!

I'm entitled to my opinion on the guy as much as the next man.

You never responded to my point about the countries in competitive games he's scored against. He has a better international record than the likes of Alan Shearer and Ian Rush. The day he leaves the Ireland set up will be a sad day for Irish football. The guy, is and has been so important to us for over a decade.

noodler

gerryo777 wrote: »

I see the RK supporters club are online so I'll leave ya's to it.
If you can't see what's staring you in the face, that's your problem.

Oh I love it when this happens.

Renn

noodler wrote: »

Sorry, pal, you can't answer my questions with questions and then cry foul.

You made up a story about Shay Given and now you are being called on it.

Grow up and take it like a man.

You didn't ask me one question.

CSF

gerryo777 wrote: »

In your humble opinion!

You know nothing about me or how long I've been supporting the Irish team, so STFU!

I'm entitled to my opinion on the guy as much as the next man.

You are entitled to an opinion, I'd never try take that away from you. But being honest, and everyone would tell you this, your opinion is ridiculous. I was merely advising you save yourself the embarassment of posting this sort of stuff.

You're right, I don't know anything about you. But I find it tricky to believe that anyone who has been supporting Ireland for the last 10 years, would dare take a pop at Robbie Keane, he has been our hero for this whole period, and has pretty much carried the team in this period, and has thus become one of the top international scorers anywhere.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I think with that entitlement, there should be a responsibility to make it an educated opinion.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

You didn't ask me one question.

Renn wrote: »

Bad game vs Croatia, bad game vs Spain and most likely knew he wasn't fit so wasn't doing the team a favour by declaring himself fit. Probably just a case of pure selfishness which wouldn't be the first time he's done something like that.

Explain the series of events which took place in your head to get to the conclusion that Given was 100% injured, that he lied about it and that he has a history of being selfish.

If you post something like that then the burden of proof is upon you. If you would like to admit now that you can't back that statement up with fact then that would be swell.

Renn

Sorry, pal, you can't answer my questions with questions and then cry foul.

CSF

Renn wrote: »

Sorry, pal, you can't answer my questions with questions and then cry foul.

The burden of proof IS on you though.

Renn

Stick on the two games Ireland have played and you might see what I'm on about. To me, and to anyone who has seen Given play before, he wasn't near 100% fit. I haven't seen him play like that in a long time - almost looked like an OAP diving for some of those shots and just didn't look at all comfortable. And there were doubts about his fitness coming into the tournament and that he wasn't training much at all. So it's not that wild of a suggestion that he might have said he's perfectly okay/Trap said this and got one last chance to play in a big tournament. My conclusion? Selfish motives.

It's my opinion, man.

CSF

Renn wrote: »

Stick on the two games Ireland have played and you might see what I'm on about. To me, and to anyone who has seen Given play before, he wasn't near 100% fit. I haven't seen him play like that in a long time - almost looked like an OAP diving for some of those shots and just didn't look at all comfortable. And there were doubts about his fitness coming into the tournament and that he wasn't training much at all. So it's not that wild of a suggestion that he might have said he's perfectly okay/Trap said this.

It's my opinion, man.

I'm merely disagreeing, or am at least sceptical about your opinion. I didn't think any of the supposed errors (and I thought some of them were massively blown out of proportion) were down to physical limitations.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Stick on the two games Ireland have played and you might see what I'm on about. To me, and to anyone who has seen Given play before, he wasn't near 100% fit. I haven't seen him play like that in a long time - almost looked like an OAP diving for some of those shots and just didn't look at all comfortable. And there were doubts about his fitness coming into the tournament and that he wasn't training much at all. So it's not that wild of a suggestion that he might have said he's perfectly okay/Trap said this and got one last chance to play in a big tournament. My conclusion = selfish motives.

It's my opinion, man.

He hasn't been great for Villa this season. Check with the Villa Superthread for opinions on that.

He let a very poor goal against Estonia in the play-off and against Armenia in the last group game.

Not to mention the fact he was in great form in the first half against Hungary in the last friendly.

You can have the opinion that you feel he wasn't fit - thats fine. Exactly what you mean by it is a bit vague though.

Everything else you said about him lieing about being fit, about being selfish and having a history of being selfish is bull***t though and if it is your opinion then it is baseless.

Renn

Your turn now.

CSF

Renn wrote: »

Your turn now.

Read up mate.

Renn

Read up.

Renn wrote: »

Did he look fit to you? Was he training much before the tournament? Were there doubts about his fitness?

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Your turn now.

I think the first goal against Croatia is the only one I could say was down, as CSF put it, to issues regarding physical limitations.

And even with that goal the excuse is that he was unsighted.

The first goal against Spain he should have done better with but it was hit straight at him at pace....how on earth does fitness come into that one?

2nd goal was a bad punch - I also don't see how a bad punch is down to fitness.

Goals 3 and 4 he could no nothing about as far as I am concerned.



So basically, I can't prove beyond any reasonable doubt that he was unfit.

I certainly can't make up some garbage about him lieing it about and having a history of being selfish.

Renn

Yeah, obviously hard to prove as he's hardly going to come out and go 'yeah, I lied to get more caps' Just an opinion and one that a few people seem to have. I noticed Barry Glendenning was tweeting about it the other night (seems to have removed them though, maybe he's changed his mind )

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Yeah, obviously hard to prove as he's hardly going to come out and go 'yeah, I lied to get more caps' Just an opinion and one that a few people seem to have. I noticed Barry Glendenning was tweeting about it the other night (seems to have removed them though, maybe he's changed his mind )

Stop pretending your opinion was simply that he was injured.

If that was the extent of your opinion then I wouldn't have opened my mouth.

A_Sober_Paddy

Ok haven't managed to read the entire thread...

I've heard people mention Cunningham for left back...What about Wilson of Stoke...

I think we should be looking at this team...

Westwood
Coleman
St. Ledger
Clark/Duffy
Wilson
McGeady
McClean
Gibson/McCarthy
Andrews
Walters
Long

Thst is of course if the older players pack it in...

I think O'Shea has been poor at the Euro's and the older players in general have been poor and I do feel the pressure got to them.

Felt Andrews has been our best player in the Euro's If I'm being honest

Renn

noodler wrote: »

Stop pretending your opinion was simply that he was injured.

If that was the extent of your opinion then I wouldn't have opened my mouth.

Him being injured and playing when not 100% fit is my opinion. I haven't changed that at all. And like I said, the caps thing is another opinion held by not only me.

Try and keep up.

noodler

Renn wrote: »

Him being injured and playing when not 100% fit is my opinion. I haven't changed that at all. And like I said, the caps thing is another opinion held by not only me.

Try and keep up.

Liar.

Your earlier post in case you want to pretend it didn't happen.

Renn wrote: »

Bad game vs Croatia, bad game vs Spain and most likely knew he wasn't fit so wasn't doing the team a favour by declaring himself fit. Probably just a case of pure selfishness which wouldn't be the first time he's done something like that.