Kilkee Hell of the West

longshank

gottarun wrote: »

Got your wish!!

Bryan Keane pinged for drafting, still took the top honours.

A tiny 30sec penalty (and it's olympic+ distance not sprint) and he still wins is hardly setting an example that drafting isn't worth the gamble!!!

tunney

longshank wrote: »

A tiny 30sec penalty (and it's olympic+ distance not sprint) and he still wins is hardly setting an example that drafting isn't worth the gamble!!!

2 minutes is the rules. If he only got 30seconds well its a bit of a joke.

(regardless of whether he was or wasn't actually drafting, if he was done for it it should be by the books)

El Director

Just big from Kilkee, once again a great time was had! Thanks and well done to all, never seen so many volenteers! Swim was about 1,800m and a great challenge! In fairness to the organisers they did stress to us while we were in the waiting pen that there was a buoy further out that we couldn't see from the shore.

Re the drafting: what happened was BJ and BK got caught in a bit of yoyoing, happens us all when we are trying to pass someone with similar ability, happened me in the last 3k going up that big drag and I couldn't drop back so I'd retake the lead and then Id be retook 30sec later! Anyway, why only 30sec? Well apparently they did not receive a warning so they only got 30src, they were not told until after the race. Why weren't they warned? Because the yellow cards were forgotten-left in some van/car. Why didn't they just shout/gesture at them? Beats me.

So perhaps a 30sec pen was a cop out as it did not affect BJ or BK final positions, there would have been up roar. Personally I'd have either penalised them 2min or nothing, not sure of the rules regarding atheltes right to a proper warning.

bryangiggsy

El Director wrote: »

Just big from Kilkee, once again a great time was had! Thanks and well done to all, never seen so many volenteers! Swim was about 1,800m and a great challenge! In fairness to the organisers they did stress to us while we were in the waiting pen that there was a buoy further out that we couldn't see from the shore.

Re the drafting: what happened was BJ and BK got caught in a bit of yoyoing, happens us all when we are trying to pass someone with similar ability, happened me in the last 3k going up that big drag and I couldn't drop back so I'd retake the lead and then Id be retook 30sec later! Anyway, why only 30sec? Well apparently they did not receive a warning so they only got 30src, they were not told until after the race. Why weren't they warned? Because the yellow cards were forgotten-left in some van/car. Why didn't they just shout/gesture at them? Beats me.

So perhaps a 30sec pen was a cop out as it did not affect BJ or BK final positions, there would have been up roar. Personally I'd have either penalised them 2min or nothing, not sure of the rules regarding atheltes right to a proper warning.

Have to say its a total cop out on TI 's behalf

promethius

i think i'm drafting my next race is this is how it's dealt with

pgibbo

Great event as ever. Savage goodie bag too.

Not as much drafting as last year but there still was some of it about.

Great course. Some swell in the sea too.

pgibbo

Anyone know why the TI results are different from those in today's Indo?

El Director

pgibbo wrote: »

Anyone know why the TI results are different from those in today's Indo?

Have not seen the Indo but perhaps they seperated the relay results from the individual results?

pgibbo

El Director wrote: »

Have not seen the Indo but perhaps they seperated the relay results from the individual results?

And the penny drops!!!

How's the body after the weekend? Cracking performance for some the *wasn't* racing :cool:

El Director

pgibbo wrote: »

And the penny drops!!!

How's the body after the weekend? Cracking performance for some the *wasn't* racing :cool:

Haha, in fairness never said I wasn't racing, I said my pacing strategy was going to be steady...out of respect for this tough course. Turns out steady was the way to go!

Sub 40min 10k in HoTW :eek: you must have been pleased? Also your OA time was fantastic considering your prep wasn't ideal.

shotgunmcos

El Director wrote: »

Haha, in fairness never said I wasn't racing, I said my pacing strategy was going to be steady...out of respect for this tough course. Turns out steady was the way to go!

Sub 40min 10k in HoTW :eek: you must have been pleased? Also your OA time was fantastic considering your prep wasn't ideal.

The way you swanned into transition with your bike as everyone was zipping up the wetsuits was a tad' relaxed you could say :rolleyes: You looked like a man smokin' da wacky tabacky early in the morning when I spoke to you... However when I saw you approacing the run turnaround there was no mistaking the game face

pgibbo - sub 40 off the bike.. I hate you, nice running Chief!

Is everyone else loving their jackets? Best top I've received from a race entry by a long shot

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

The way you swanned into transition with your bike as everyone was zipping up the wetsuits was a tad' relaxed you could say :rolleyes: You looked like a man smokin' da wacky tabacky early in the morning when I spoke to you... However when I saw you approacing the run turnaround there was no mistaking the game face

pgibbo - sub 40 off the bike.. I hate you, nice running Chief!

Is everyone else loving their jackets? Best top I've received from a race entry by a long shot

For the individual prone to stressing being relaxed is uber important!

Nice running pgibbo.

catweazle

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Is everyone else loving their jackets? Best top I've received from a race entry by a long shot

No need to run it in Mike, when I arrived admittedly a tad late all they were able to give me was a Powerbar bottle x 2 :mad:

shotgunmcos

catweazle wrote: »

No need to run it in Mike, when I arrived admittedly a tad late all they were able to give me was a Powerbar bottle x 2 :mad:

Sorry CW, didn't know that.

pgibbo

catweazle wrote: »

No need to run it in Mike, when I arrived admittedly a tad late all they were able to give me was a Powerbar bottle x 2 :mad:

You were well warned!!! I even said it to you on Friday that it was 9 and not 9:30 that registration closed. :rolleyes: The glasses are nice too!

El Director

shotgunmcos wrote: »

The way you swanned into transition with your bike as everyone was zipping up the wetsuits was a tad' relaxed you could say :rolleyes: You looked like a man smokin' da wacky tabacky early in the morning when I spoke to you... However when I saw you approacing the run turnaround there was no mistaking the game face

pgibbo - sub 40 off the bike.. I hate you, nice running Chief!

Is everyone else loving their jackets? Best top I've received from a race entry by a long shot

Ya it was nice racing with no expectations...just doing it with some good mates and a laugh. That approach suited me I guess. Another top performance from you with a great swim and bike, considering the cramps setting in your run was very good too.

tunney

El Director wrote: »

Ya it was nice racing with no expectations...just doing it with some good mates and a laugh. That approach suited me I guess. Another top performance from you with a great swim and bike, considering the cramps setting in your run was very good too.

Is there such a thing as a good bike followed by a bad run?

El Director

tunney wrote: »

Is there such a thing as a good bike followed by a bad run?

A bad run? I thought it was a very good run despite MCOS's ongoing cramp issues, I don't think the bike leg brought on cramping.

tunney

El Director wrote: »

A bad run? I thought it was a very good run despite MCOS's ongoing cramp issues, I don't think the bike leg brought on cramping.

Oh right yeah, forgot that.

shotgunmcos

Probably most sensible race I've done in terms of pacing actually. I did it all on RPE to see if I could control without data. Checking the HR data since and comparing with how I atually felt on the day has brought a lot more value to the data. The run was one of 2 halves. I'll pop up a report when I get a chance.

Edit: Well done to all the boardsies by the way, it was a challenging day. Huff n' Puff was simply robbed by TI in my opinion, class performance all the same though. DaveR1 shone as expected too. I had to smile when I saw Trig1's eyeballs out for the line and grin from ear to ear, well done on your first HOTW Chief

DaveR1

Great race and great goodie bag again. Happy with my race, a bit of work needed on the bike though!

On a side note..... Anyone know how to use the 10euro wheelworx voucher?
There doesn't seem to be any online code, surely a hidden catch somewhere though!!!

longshank

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Have to say its a total cop out on TI 's behalf

apparently the GAA are advising them on how to enforce rules!!

Nwm2

My race report & impressions.

Goal was to get as close to the top 5% as possible, with top 10% a minimum.

Overall very happy with the race – both the race itself and my time. Well organised, tough race.

Registration

---

Absolutely amazing goody bag – how do they do it? Retail cost of the jacket and glasses far in excess of the entry fee. Superb glasses – excellent visibility in the aero position.

Registration well organised, lots of volunteers. They were running out of some jacket sizes late on Friday night, so can see how problems may have arisen in the morning. Lots of volunteers meant lots of jackets given to them, plus some relay teams seemed to get a goodie bag for each member, in error I believe!

Swim

---

Last year I was still wading into the water when they started the swim (prematurely in my opinion – the one really bad point about last year), so when I saw that they were walking each wave separately to a holding pen on the beach I thought that would be a big improvement – no more being stuck in transition behind loads of people who didn’t need to get down until later.

I was in wave 2, and we got our swim briefing while in the holding pen. I heard fine, but doubt if all those at the back heard it (no microphone). We were told that there was a buoy that was hidden behind the pier that you could not see, but I did get confused anyway.

The race briefing pdf assured us we would have plenty of warm up time in the water. Once we got in, however, we got going almost immediately. There was no start line as such, and there was a couple of very quick blows of the horn. People were looking around at each other wondering what that meant, then the guy on the boat started indicating something with his hands (either ‘come here’ or ‘swim has started’) so off we went. I’m guessing people at the back were barely into the water.

So another disaster of a swim start – sort it out next year Limerick Tri! In 2010, they brought us out of our depth, held us to a line, gave us a count down and then off we went IIRC. Why this can’t be done again boggles the mind. Give us 5 mins to warm up, have a start line, give us a count down, then an unmistakeable start signal. What’s so hard about that?

The swim wasn’t easy, but I’ve raced in much worse. Heavy swells didn’t suit my slow turnover pretty-boy swimming style, could not hold feet (not sure if it would have mattered in those conditions). Hit the first buoy and thought we were turning, but saw everyone swimming straight on so I followed. Took ages to get to the next buoy, and we turned left to go to the next one. We did a 90 degree turn and swam for a while before it dawned on us that we needed to turn in towards land – turns out that the buoy drifted significantly adding 150m or so to the swim.

Some people say the swim was 1800-1900m based on their Garmins, but the times don’t reflect that. Swim times were up 3:00 to 3:30 on average, not the 5-8mins needed for a 1800-1900m swim.

So I was top 30% for the swim, big improvement for me from last year in my weakest discipline.

Bike

---

Bike went better than the conditions would suggest – the tailwind out didn’t give rise to as bad a headwind back as I feared. Can’t really remember the rain, although I know it poured. Took it easy on corners/descents as needed, saw a couple of people off the bikes.

Saw some drafting, so idea if it was better or worse than last year. I was passing all those groups anyway, and no-one grabbed my wheel for long so didn’t bother me.

Well inside the top 10% for the bike split, held back plenty for the run,

Run
----
Run not as hard as last year – wind at the quarry not as strong. Again, well inside the top 10% for run split.

Overall position again well inside my top 10% minimum goal – halfway to the top 5% ultimate target.

Overall

---

Love the race, let’s get the swim start sorted for next year.

Huff n Puff

Well done to everyone at the race. Great organisation from the LTC as per usual.

The swim start was not ideal but there are plenty of dodgy starts in different races every year. Get yourself ready asap and be prepared for the unexpected. That way you should never be caught out.

Just to give my thoughts on the drafting incident......

I don't think any drafting penalty should have been applied. I certainly wouldn't want to win like that. There were plenty of draft marshalls hovering around the top 10 for most of the race. If they spotted something then a warning / penalty should have been applied earlier. He is experienced enough to know how to pace himself behind someone and not be drafting. In my opinion, that was one of the fairest cycles in terms of top 10 non drafting due to at least 2 motorcycle marshalls tracking us pretty much the whole way.

Even if he did draft a small bit he would have won the race easily anyway without doing it. He is just back from a long term injury and only decided to do the race very late, while this is the big race of the year for me and I was well rested for it. He wasn't on a TT bike and didn't have an aero helmet so I had a big advantage there too especially into the wind on the way home. For me to even get close to him was amazing. There is a gulf in class between the two of us so just sharing the podium with him at the end is great. If I ever win Kilkee I want to have deserved it by being the best triathlete there on the day. On Saturday the best triathlete was Bryan.

peter kern

you are the man! and it is very correct that bryan gave up some 4-5 min with his bike aero choices.

I hope karma will be with you and you get the win one year.

I was very happy to see Bryan running well on sat, not an easy time
after such an horrendous accident.

shotgunmcos

HOTW Report

+1 hope Karma swings back around Huf n'Puff and you get your deserved day...

onimpulse

El Director wrote: »

Just big from Kilkee, once again a great time was had! Thanks and well done to all, never seen so many volenteers! Swim was about 1,800m and a great challenge! In fairness to the organisers they did stress to us while we were in the waiting pen that there was a buoy further out that we couldn't see from the shore.

Re the drafting: what happened was BJ and BK got caught in a bit of yoyoing, happens us all when we are trying to pass someone with similar ability, happened me in the last 3k going up that big drag and I couldn't drop back so I'd retake the lead and then Id be retook 30sec later! Anyway, why only 30sec? Well apparently they did not receive a warning so they only got 30src, they were not told until after the race. Why weren't they warned? Because the yellow cards were forgotten-left in some van/car. Why didn't they just shout/gesture at them? Beats me.

So perhaps a 30sec pen was a cop out as it did not affect BJ or BK final positions, there would have been up roar. Personally I'd have either penalised them 2min or nothing, not sure of the rules regarding atheltes right to a proper warning.

I notice there are two guys further down the field who got a 2 minute penalty... I presume the motorbike marshal went back and got the yellow cards then?

Rawhead

This sounds like a really cracking race. It's definitely on my list for next year.

longshank

3. The Draft Marshals reserve the right to take following actions deemed most suitable at the time and in the interests of Health and Safety. These include;
 Demand any cyclist/cyclists deemed to be drafting to either move through ahead of, or pull back behind the lead cyclist.
 To apply time penalties of 4 minutes to athletes deemed to be drafting. This time penalty will be added to the athletes overall time at the end of the race. Anyone receiving two 4 min drafting penalties will be automatically disqualified.
 To apply immediate time penalties by stopping a cyclist or group of cyclists at the road-side. Those involved in "group" or "bunch" drafting will all be pulled over to a safe off- course location and each then let off again in 30 second intervals. The Bigger the group the longer the penalty. Group/bunch cycling is not permitted and every last effort should be made by each athlete to avoid groups at all costs.

From HOW drafting rules.
No mention of a 30sec penalty for kinda drafting/only a little bit/not so much that it would affect the race. He either did or he didn't! It's either 4mins or it's not. By the way no mention of cards or requirements for warnings!

El Director

onimpulse wrote: »

I notice there are two guys further down the field who got a 2 minute penalty... I presume the motorbike marshal went back and got the yellow cards then?

Ya, I don't know Omni, all I know is that this was the reason given to the boys for their 30sec penalties.