Waterford City lowest % payment of household Charge

Max Powers

Im not surpised only 44.5% paid, people are disillusioned, highest unemployment rate in country, less disposable income than average, bailout etc.

On the other hand, the city badly needs to put its best foot forward in presenting itself, will the shortfall lead to reduction in street cleaning, keeping parks tidy, possible council lay-offs. Added to that, you have people who are more than capable of paying and have a stero-typical Irish attitude of i dont care about anyone outside my clan, to hell with the rest of society.

wellboytoo

Still it's a lot more than a lot of the nay sayers on here predicted would pay!
"I'll never pay the..." etc, hopefully there will be a period of crossover between central funds ceasing and self financing from the local charge.
Give the City Council time to get the balance into line.

BBM77

I think we should not pay it. We need to do something to show the government that we a sick of being treated like second class citizens. We pay our taxes and return two government TD’s in every election (this time three) and we get second rate service from the government, if even that, for it. When they start treating us like the rest of the country we’ll pay like the rest of the country.

danjo-xx

When TD Mick Wallace wont pay his tax bill why should we pay this!

He was collecting vat but didn't pass it on to revenue but instead used it for his own needs.

Am Chile

Fair play to waterford for being the highest non payment area in the country and fair play to the local waterford anti household tax campaign for their hard work, its certainly paid off, its gonna be a long fight, they might get €100 off some people, but they won,t be getting a few €1000 a year as people just won,t be able to afford it simple as that.

fricatus

Am Chile wrote: »

Fair play to waterford for being the highest non payment area in the country and fair play to the local waterford anti household tax campaign for their hard work, its certainly paid off, its gonna be a long fight, they might get €100 off some people, but they won,t be getting a few €1000 a year as people just won,t be able to afford it simple as that.

About 75% of the wealth in this country is held in property. The rich who own most of the property should pay a property tax, which in effect is a wealth tax.

If there is no property tax, the shortfall will have to be made up of consumption taxes such as VAT (which will hit the poor) and income taxes and taxes on business (which will hit enterprise and jobs).

Any socialist who thinks for himself should support a property tax!

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

The rich who own most of the property should pay a property tax, which in effect is a wealth tax.

So your saying working class people are rich? Great reasoning.

fricatus

7upfree wrote: »

So your saying working class people are rich? Great reasoning.

Those who own most property are by definition the rich... and they should pay the most tax.

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

Those who own most property are by definition the rich... and they should pay the most tax.

Total rubbish. Of the worst kind. Define "most property".

fricatus

7upfree wrote: »

Total rubbish. Of the worst kind. Define "most property".

Fine. Don't take my word for it. How about Ronan Lyons, an economist who's an expert in the area?

Or Bank of Ireland's 2006 report on where the nation's wealth is held.

Ronan Lyons wrote:

But it was property that was the overwhelming type of wealth in Ireland, making up 72% of all wealth...

Most of the wealth in this country is held in property, like I told you!

I'll leave Ronan with the last word:

Ronan Lyons wrote:

...So when people talk about taxing wealth in this country, they are talking principally about taxing the homes that we live in. In second place comes taxing the deposits we have in the bank. Make sure to mention this to the next person who says “We don’t need a property tax, we need a wealth tax”.

Finnbar01

fricatus wrote: »

Fine. Don't take my word for it. How about Ronan Lyons, an economist who's an expert in the area?

Or Bank of Ireland's 2006 report on where the nation's wealth is held.



Most of the wealth in this country is held in property, like I told you!

I'll leave Ronan with the last word:

Well Ronan is wrong. We don't need no extra taxes in this country.

What we need to do is balance our budget and live within our means.

Bears and Vodka

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Well Ronan is wrong. We don't need no extra taxes in this country.

What we need to do is balance our budget and live within our means.

Thus the extra taxes.

Streets need to be kept and also the 'budget needs to be balanced'. The opportunity cost of not paying the Household Charge is that the budget deficit is even greater. If people pay the Household Charge then (in theory) the Government can spend the money saved on servicing the Budget Deficit.

wellboytoo

I'm by no means a socialist, but I support a property tax, one that everyone pays, whether you own or rent a property, you should pay it.
It is the most equitable form of taxation, but I don't think the present or any Government has the balls to bring it in as it should be to make it fair to all.
There is a crazy situation going on in the commercial rates area at the moment, where the rates are higher than the rent on a lot of buildings!! this is not sustainable , the load has to be shouldered by morwe of the population or the whole shaebang will seize up.
Waterford City Council rates arrears gone up to 6.3 million!

thomasm

Ronan Lyons wrote:

But it was property that was the overwhelming type of wealth in Ireland, making up 72% of all wealth...

Most of the wealth in this country is held in property, like I told you!

Surely that's when property values were going in a certain trajectory. Most property portfolios are now cash draining, illiquid, deprecating "assets"

Finnbar01

subz3r0 wrote: »

Thus the extra taxes.

Streets need to be kept and also the 'budget needs to be balanced'. The opportunity cost of not paying the Household Charge is that the budget deficit is even greater. If people pay the Household Charge then (in theory) the Government can spend the money saved on servicing the Budget Deficit.

So in other words the government knows better than you when it comes to spending your money?

Bears and Vodka

Finnbar01 wrote: »

So in other words the government knows better than you when it comes to spending your money?

Well you would never pay €100 voluntarily towards keeping the streets tidy, would you? And the situation that we're in, it has to be done so there you go.

Finnbar01

subz3r0 wrote: »

Well you would never pay €100 voluntarily towards keeping the streets tidy, would you? And the situation that we're in, it has to be done so there you go.

We already pay enough towards upkeep of our streets. If we want to making savings we should start with the top. Cutting politicians, councillours and senior civil servant salaries.

When we've done that, then come back and talk to me about increasing taxes.

Bears and Vodka

Finnbar01 wrote: »

We already pay enough towards upkeep of our streets. If we want to making savings we should start with the top. Cutting politicians, councillours and senior civil servant salaries.

When we've done that, then come back and talk to me about increasing taxes.

Very true about politicians salaries etc.

But... if you add up all the excess salaries/bonuses/pensions of civil servants how much will the State save annually? A few million? For arguments sake €10million?

And how many households have not paid the Household tax countrywide? Roughly 50%? 50% of households = 730,000 households x €100 = €73million

State is losing out much more on the stubborn households than on the overpaid politicians. This in no way justifies politicians being overpaid but put things in perspective.

A real problem with the Household Charge is that it's a regressive tax. An OAP will pay the same €100 as a D4 mansion owner (stereotype, I know, sorry). Household charge has to be progressive but then how do you decide who pays how much?

Finnbar01

subz3r0 wrote: »

Very true about politicians salaries etc.

So you adimt that then. Why should we pay them more?

But... if you add up all the excess salaries/bonuses/pensions of civil servants how much will the State save annually? A few million? For arguments sake €10million?

Going back to 2006 , we pay qaungos up to €13 billion per year, yes that's €13,000,000,000.
.

And how many households have not paid the Household tax countrywide? Roughly 50%? 50% of households = 730,000 households x €100 = €73million

State is losing out much more on the stubborn households than on the overpaid politicians. This in no way justifies politicians being overpaid but put things in perspective.

A real problem with the Household Charge is that it's a regressive tax. An OAP will pay the same €100 as a D4 mansion owner (stereotype, I know, sorry). Household charge has to be progressive but then how do you decide who pays how much?

People who bought their houses paid for it through taxes already. Why should they pay more?

Bears and Vodka

Finnbar01 wrote: »

So you adimt that then. Why should we pay them more?

Admit what? Pay who? Pay extra to politicians? No, we shouldn't, you're right.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Going back to 2006 , we pay qaungos up to €13 billion per year, yes that's €13,000,000,000.

What is it now? 2006 is the worst year to compare to, however. But ok fair enough, point taken.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

People who bought their houses paid for it through taxes already. Why should they pay more?

Because unfortunately we are in a very big economic mess and if everyone just says 'Why should Í pay more?' it's going to get worse.

Yes, it's not the ordinary citizens' fault but sadly it's the citizens that have to make an effort. Admittedly, it is very unfair.

P.S. A Household Charge is employed by many countries for decades, it's not something outrageous the Irish Government came up with out of nowhere. I think it's here to stay and people might as well get used to it. If you don't wanna - fine, rent housing. Harsh reality.

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

Fine. Don't take my word for it. How about Ronan Lyons, an economist who's an expert in the area?

Or Bank of Ireland's 2006 report on where the nation's wealth is held.



Most of the wealth in this country is held in property, like I told you!

I'll leave Ronan with the last word:

Wat bunkum! So if you own a house which youve bought, paid for (and paid VAT on) you get punished. But if you live off the state and are given a home for free your not? And people actually agree with this bs?

The household tax is a property tax but the FG tools are frightened to call it that. 160000 council 'households' are exempt.

A 'property expert'. hmmmm. Their were loads of them around in the past few years. Not one to be quoting really.

7upfree

subz3r0 wrote: »

Thus the extra taxes.

Streets need to be kept and also the 'budget needs to be balanced'. The opportunity cost of not paying the Household Charge is that the budget deficit is even greater. If people pay the Household Charge then (in theory) the Government can spend the money saved on servicing the Budget Deficit.

So naieve. You really believe this? Your contribution is going to fund a hole caused by banking debt and an overpaid public sector. 'Streets need to be kept' Kept how?

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

I'm by no means a socialist, but I support a property tax, one that everyone pays, whether you own or rent a property, you should pay it.
It is the most equitable form of taxation, but I don't think the present or any Government has the balls to bring it in as it should be to make it fair to all.
There is a crazy situation going on in the commercial rates area at the moment, where the rates are higher than the rent on a lot of buildings!! this is not sustainable , the load has to be shouldered by morwe of the population or the whole shaebang will seize up.
Waterford City Council rates arrears gone up to 6.3 million!

Im against a property tax and the false arguments for it. I look at my parents for example:

They pay to have the grass cut in their estate.

They will pay water rates.

The parks which they use are also used by Council tenants, who are not charged for the privilege.

They will pay a property tax to fund bad banking debt and public sector waste.

I don't think businesses should even pay rates, as their providing jobs.
Equally the burden shouldnt be on a homeowner. We're spending more than we're raising in taxes. do what any normal household would do - cut the spending. That is what has to happen. Wage reductions in the public sector across the board are inevitable.

7upfree

subz3r0 wrote: »

Thus the extra taxes.

Streets need to be kept and also the 'budget needs to be balanced'. The opportunity cost of not paying the Household Charge is that the budget deficit is even greater. If people pay the Household Charge then (in theory) the Government can spend the money saved on servicing the Budget Deficit.

No - the government will spend the money propping up public sector wages and social welfare - the two causes of the deficit in the first place.

spankmemunkey

Your all argueing over spilled milk,

Whats happened has happened. We didnt cause this problem its not our fault somebody else should pay etc etc, we heard all this before, but thats not going to fix the country, They need money its obvious and this is now your duty as an Irish citizen to pay it. We live in a relatively free society, These charges are fairly common in Europe water and household tax, If you want to keep complaining about how terrible things are and wallow then things will never get better if you want things to get better its going to take effort from everyone

S28382

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Your all argueing over spilled milk,

Whats happened has happened. We didnt cause this problem its not our fault somebody else should pay etc etc, we heard all this before, but thats not going to fix the country, They need money its obvious and this is now your duty as an Irish citizen to pay it. We live in a relatively free society, These charges are fairly common in Europe water and household tax, If you want to keep complaining about how terrible things are and wallow then things will never get better if you want things to get better its going to take effort from everyone

Well said spankmemunkey, There is too much negativity about the state of the country.... the place wont move forward if everybody is looking backwards

7upfree

S28382 wrote: »

Well said spankmemunkey, There is too much negativity about the state of the country.... the place wont move forward if everybody is looking backwards

So let's forget about:

The billions poured into banks.

The ridiculously high wages paid to PS workers.

The ludicrously generous social welfare system.

All of the above the cause of these "common taxes elsewhere".

FFS what planet are you on? Seriously?

spankmemunkey

Is remembering it going to bring the money back?

Is not paying going to help the economy improve?

Is not paying your household charge going to bring "those bankers" to accountability? NO

I love the way people are so defiant and righteous about all this and they dont know exactly what they are talking about, suddenly everybody is an economist and they know how to raise billions of euro's.

Accountability and trying to find out who caused all these problems and actually dealing with recovery are two different things.

At the moment we are really in the sh't and its very bleak we have to sort it out and raise funds just to for the daily running of the country.

All the other issues need to be sorted but we have to sort the deficit FIRST.


If we were to liken it to someones household, id rather get my household finances in order NOW, you can dither and say well whos to blame while the bills pile up around your neck and then youll end up like Greece!

arodabomb

7upfree wrote: »

A 'property expert'. hmmmm. Their were loads of them around in the past few years. Not one to be quoting really.

And here lies your ignorance. Instead of bothering to read up on him, you hear "property" and "expert" and denigrate the man. He is not a builder, property developer or similar. He is a fairly renowned (by Irish standards) economist who specialises in housing and property. Despite his young age, he is held in great esteem by the likes of daft.ie and other companies. He is most certainly "one to be quoting really"!

Hoffmans

Max Powers wrote: »

Im not surpised only 44.5% paid, people are disillusioned, highest unemployment rate in country, less disposable income than average, bailout etc.

On the other hand, the city badly needs to put its best foot forward in presenting itself, will the shortfall lead to reduction in street cleaning, keeping parks tidy, possible council lay-offs. Added to that, you have people who are more than capable of paying and have a stero-typical Irish attitude of i dont care about anyone outside my clan, to hell with the rest of society.

the figure for waterford people not registering would be nearer 60% , as most of the newer apartments around town are owned by out of towners.......

on the other hand, it may lead to less council junkets,cheese and wine receptions and throwing money into crazy projects like the "green route" lol...

Potential-Monke

As i said before, i will pay when they have a fair and affordable system. At the moment, i don't know what i'm registering for, so i'm registering until i know exactly what i will be paying for the next few years.

@7upfree: You are another person who is attacking the public service with what can only be called jealousy at this stage. I work in the public service. In the last few weeks i had to contact my credit union about lowering my repayments, and they have done, but i will be unable to apply for another loan for at least 4 years. I can only hope nothing major happens in my ownd home, of which i now live in by myself due to personal circumstances. I'm paying a comparibly small mortgage, and i'm left with €20 a week to feed myself and put petrol in the car.

Yes, it's my fault that i over-borrowed in the good days, but when i borrowed i was well able to pay everything back and had enough left over to save. Since then, my wages have been slashed by €120 a week and i've already gone through my savings. I feel like i am doing my bit, and any more been taken from me will result in me handing back the keys to the bank and renting, making me even more of a burden as the bank will be down €160000 which you, the tax-payer, will end up paying off for them. All this while having to work longer hours, doing the job of 2 and there being no motivation anymore. I've done my bit, go after someone else that's paid in 1 year what takes me 5 years to even come close to. Not everyone in the Public Sector (especially the bottom 2 "ranks") get all these lovely extras the public so lovingly go on about.

Sorry about the off-topic.