Back to school costs

angeldaisy

Sorry for those who are yet to get their head around they will be finishing shortly, but I'm so annoyed at the costs involved with primary schools.

Just have received the booklist/extra costs for september, my fella's heading into 2nd class.
Books work out at 85.70, plus extra costs of 59.00 and stationary costs of around 20.00, thats 164.70 before I even think about his uniform, which unfortunately all needs replacing this year as he has grown so much, so I'm looking at another 60-70 euro for replacing that plus shoes.
Why can't the education system cop its self on and come up with a better system than using books that can only be used once?
At least the school is now using a book rental scheme for the English readers - saves me about 8euro - woohoo.....

Sorry for the rant, but every penny counts at the minute and its such a pain in the backside....

stoogie1875

I know exactly how u feel, my little girl is going into senior infants and everything costs sooooo much! I was working it out the other day and I think by the time you take into consideration everything that has to be paid for throughout the school year it comes to a about 300 euro by the time you've paid for any school trips, swimming, tennis, replacing everything in their pencil case half a dozen times! i'm dreading it when my two boys start school aswell, i'm going to be even more skint than I am now!
When I went to school in the UK books were free, you didn't have to pay a contribution to the insurance costs or anything like that! There was one big downside tho and that was the class sizes! I think that the level of one-on-one teaching in my daughters school at least is alot :-)

silly

There should be a book scheme available for other books apart from just the English readers!!!
Have you looked into the back to school allowance?
Or check if any of the books can be gotten 2nd hand, you could save a fortune!

For the uniforms, if they have a polo shirt with the logo on it, get some plain ones in dunnes for the days that the school jumper won't even be taken off.
Look out for deals before the summer is out. I think m&s already have uniforms in, or sometimes little woods do 3 for 2 on uniforms.
Get the shoes in penneys dunnes, they grow out of them so fast. Save the expensive ones for when they get older and can actually get a whole year out of them.

liliq

I saw an idea somewhere here before of taking the crests off outgrown uniforms of items and sewing them onto polos, jumpers etc.

cynder

Havent got my book list yet for my one in 1st class and one in s.infants and the one starting secondary.

the uniform for secondary cost 299 euro plus 60 for the school jacket and 75 for decks (they were in a sale) ive picked up these since january when she got accepted. she needs an ipad for school and e-books, insurance and an ipad cover a school bag with a laptop compartment for the ipad so your talking about almost 1k and then im sure there will be extras when she starts.

1st class books and stationary will be around 130 and then we have to pay 100 to the school in september also school unifrom can be got from dunnes except for the jumper but that i get large so it lasts 2-3 years. they are not strict with the uniform so polo shirts can be got from dunnes and you dont need the crest on them. Ive got the boys school uniform all sorted.

s.infant guys books and stationary will also cost around 130 and we have to pay the school 60 in sepember for him.

the boys are not required to wear shoes they have to wear runners, so i will pick up some in the sale.

I think i have to pick up hurley gear and a helmet this year for the guy in first class.

liliq

An ipad?! That's obscene!

byhookorbycrook

Book rental schemes are extremely expensive to set up and there are no grants available to schools to do so.

Lisha

on the book rental scheme, a friend of mine's daughter attends a school that uses a book scheme. She is not happy with it at all. school uses mostly photo copied pages and it feels a bit haphazard. Her daughter needs some help and the mother feels she cant help by preempting which topics are coming up next, as there is no book to consult. She would be happier if books were used. Just another opinion

Also on uniforms Marks and spencers have 20% off uniforms at the moment, by the website it looks like some good deals to be had.

Went into M&S last week cos there was the 20% promotion. Spent €300 and still haven't got all clothes needed. I have 4 in primary and 1 in secondary.
The book situation is such a rip off. New editions of books with practically no content change and schools who go along with insisting on using every new edition despite no change in the curriculum.
Schools who insist on having school crest on uniform are also part of the big rip off. It is unnecessary and prevents you from being able to shop around.
To top it all the schools, teachers and system is being totally devalued by the disgraceful cutbacks imposed by the government. My daughters class is increasing by 20% next year because of cutbacks and i can bet the school "voluntary donation" will go up again.
All this while they cut the child allowance?
Arghhhhhh ......

cynder

With the e books you just update them so you don't have to buy a new addition. They last for 3 years for 1st to 3rd and for 2 years for 5th and 6th. Not sure if we will save money in the long run with the iPad but we are giving it a shot.

nicowa

liliq wrote: »

I saw an idea somewhere here before of taking the crests off outgrown uniforms of items and sewing them onto polos, jumpers etc.

+1 on this. My mother in law did it all through the 70's with her two young boys - who were pretty much the same size so could even do hand me downs.

Deleted User wrote: »

Went into M&S last week cos there was the 20% promotion. Spent €300 and still haven't got all clothes needed. I have 4 in primary and 1 in secondary.
The book situation is such a rip off. New editions of books with practically no content change and schools who go along with insisting on using every new edition despite no change in the curriculum.
Schools who insist on having school crest on uniform are also part of the big rip off. It is unnecessary and prevents you from being able to shop around.
To top it all the schools, teachers and system is being totally devalued by the disgraceful cutbacks imposed by the government. My daughters class is increasing by 20% next year because of cutbacks and i can bet the school "voluntary donation" will go up again.
All this while they cut the child allowance?
Arghhhhhh ......

Maybe it's time the Parents Group got involved? Club together and refuse to buy the new editions if there's no discernable change? I don't see what the schools are getting out of it so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't agree.

Of the books that we could pass on, the school used to buy then back and sell them to the new students. 50-80% of books used to be replaced this way and while it was hard work for the teacher who used to do it all it was a really great scheme and well appreciated by the parents.

If those two ideas could come into force then who knows how much could be saved. The parents could even offer to host the book buy-back and sale (through the school as you need starting capital) so that they wouldn't need to hire a teacher to do it. Offer those parents first choice on the books they need!

Seriously! Do it!

silverharp

it makes you wonder if there is a "racket" in school books, I notice especilly with maths workbooks that they are no better than most of the downloadable stuff except you have to pay big money for the books.
Its up to parents to start petitioning schools to put their own folders together where possible if money is an issue

Little My

Having gone through school in northern ireland, I really don't get the whole school book thing here....

We were given the text books at the start of the year, you had to cover them and were never allowed to write in them. Answers were written in ordinary jotter notebooks. You gave the book back at the end of the year and if they were damaged or lost you paid for them.

Why can't that be done in schools here?

Another thing I've noticed is the uniform thing. Pretty much all my expensive uniform items like the blazer came from charity shops. Cheaper parts like teeshirts or whatever from dunnes. But I do look in the charity shops in Galway all the time and I haven't seem uniforms?

vamos!

silverharp wrote: »

it makes you wonder if there is a "racket" in school books, I notice especilly with maths workbooks that they are no better than most of the downloadable stuff except you have to pay big money for the books.
Its up to parents to start petitioning schools to put their own folders together where possible if money is an issue

Just want to confirm that there is no racket. No golf trips, free pens, vouchers or the likes from publishers. I try not to change the boos where possible but it is a nightmare to have 2 or sometimes 3 versions of the same book in one class. The fault lies firmly with the publishers.

silverharp

vamos! wrote: »

Just want to confirm that there is no racket. No golf trips, free pens, vouchers or the likes from publishers. I try not to change the boos where possible but it is a nightmare to have 2 or sometimes 3 versions of the same book in one class. The fault lies firmly with the publishers.

i wasnt implying the teachers, more that the book companies have somehow gotten cosy with the dept. either way I'm forking out 10ish euros for books that could be downloaded for the price of photocopy paper and a bit of toner. So its up to the school to save parent's money where possibe.


for example maths, never need to buy a workbook again, the worksheets below can be generated til the cows come home.

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/worksheets/

hoodwinked

liliq wrote: »

An ipad?! That's obscene!

it's not really if you think it through!

grindelwald wrote: »

With the e books you just update them so you don't have to buy a new addition. They last for 3 years for 1st to 3rd and for 2 years for 5th and 6th. Not sure if we will save money in the long run with the iPad but we are giving it a shot.

+1

i always wondered when they would switch to the ipad for schools books, i use one for college and its the best thing ever, one of our books (we had 6 recommended) was €350 and i downloaded it free along with the others, the ipad was cheaper than the books. not to mention i could take notes on it much faster and being neater than my handwriting made it easier to read come exam time,

also handy being able to study from my laptop, and from my phone being out and about too.

The Big Red Button

hoodwinked wrote: »

+1

i always wondered when they would switch to the ipad for schools books, i use one for college and its the best thing ever, one of our books (we had 6 recommended) was €350 and i downloaded it free along with the others, the ipad was cheaper than the books. not to mention i could take notes on it much faster and being neater than my handwriting made it easier to read come exam time,

also handy being able to study from my laptop, and from my phone being out and about too.

I guess it makes sense, once you get used to it! I would find it very hard to study from a screen - I always have to print all my notes out, and put them in folders, just because that's what I'm used to. But I suppose if they get kids in the habit of studying from the iPad early on in secondary school, they just won't know any different!

My main concerns would be ...

Is there any evidence that using a screen so much all throughout their teens might damage their eyesight (moreso than looking at books?) Particularly because there will be some kids who'll come home from school, and go from looking at their iPads to looking at a TV/computer?

Wouldn't it make them a bit of a target for attacks? If there's only one school in the area that uses iPads, and this is well-known locally, then you couldn't really let a young teenager walk home alone with an iPad worth several hundred euro in their bag? Which every potential mugger will be aware of, because of the kid's uniform?

By the way, grindelwald, you mentioned that you have insurance on your daughter's laptop - is this compulsory for all students, and does it cover all sorts of damage (e.g. if the kid spills something on it, drops it, etc), and is there much of an excess on the policy? I'm just wondering, because some kids can be very clumsy/careless with their property, and getting the iPads repaired/replaced could end up costing a fortune over the years!

Do the students have the option of using books instead, or is the iPad compulsory for everyone?

BrianBoru00

while I'd agree that school books are too expensive, I do question people giving out about the school uniform.

Come August the papers will once again trot out the same rubbish by adding this to the back to school costs.

If children weren't in school - would they wear nothing? Uniforms for the most part last the year - two jumpers, two shirts and 2 pairs of trousers that last the student for the year. I don't see the point in arguing about the uniform.

silverharp

chatterpillar wrote: »

I guess it makes sense, once you get used to it! I would find it very hard to study from a screen - I always have to print all my notes out, and put them in folders, just because that's what I'm used to. But I suppose if they get kids in the habit of studying from the iPad early on in secondary school, they just won't know any different!

My main concerns would be ...

Is there any evidence that using a screen so much all throughout their teens might damage their eyesight (moreso than looking at books?) Particularly because there will be some kids who'll come home from school, and go from looking at their iPads to looking at a TV/computer?

Wouldn't it make them a bit of a target for attacks? If there's only one school in the area that uses iPads, and this is well-known locally, then you couldn't really let a young teenager walk home alone with an iPad worth several hundred euro in their bag? Which every potential mugger will be aware of, because of the kid's uniform?

By the way, grindelwald, you mentioned that you have insurance on your daughter's laptop - is this compulsory for all students, and does it cover all sorts of damage (e.g. if the kid spills something on it, drops it, etc), and is there much of an excess on the policy? I'm just wondering, because some kids can be very clumsy/careless with their property, and getting the iPads repaired/replaced could end up costing a fortune over the years!

Do the students have the option of using books instead, or is the iPad compulsory for everyone?

`

some interesting points. but isnt IT going in the "cloud" direction. The way forward even with older internet technology is to have an account with student/teacher accounts. No reason for a kid to have to carry any Ipad or anything else. They logon to the same account at school or home. And if there are issues with connection all the kid needs is a portable drive to sync between home and school

Jogathon

silverharp wrote: »

for example maths, never need to buy a workbook again, the worksheets below can be generated til the cows come home.

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/worksheets/

I sometimes use these as a supplementary worksheet. However, it is very difficult and time consuming to find one that exactly suits your lesson, and they are often just pretty crap to be honest. I find them useful for tables tests but that's about it. The language of maths is vital, and the small steps to build on knowledge too. These generated worksheets don't use the same phrases as the textbooks, and so would only confuse the weaker child.

On the book rental issue, maths books can only be applied to book rental from 3rd class upwards. Any of the younger classes need to be able to write answers into the book as otherwise they are just wasting time copying instead of maths learning. This is true for much of the younger books. In our 3rd-6th class they only have to buy 3 workbooks, all the others are covered in book rental.

Jogathon

silverharp wrote: »

`

some interesting points. but isnt IT going in the "cloud" direction. The way forward even with older internet technology is to have an account with student/teacher accounts. No reason for a kid to have to carry any Ipad or anything else. They logon to the same account at school or home. And if there are issues with connection all the kid needs is a portable drive to sync between home and school

Sounds like a great idea but is probably unworkable within a classroom setting. How would the child look at text when sitting in the class? Interactive whiteboard showing it for the class is good, but each child would be trying to find a different piece of information, on a different page etc.

silverharp

Jogathon wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea but is probably unworkable within a classroom setting. How would the child look at text when sitting in the class? Interactive whiteboard showing it for the class is good, but each child would be trying to find a different piece of information, on a different page etc.

my IT skills are limited but for instance a site that I use a lot for Maths for my kids is Khanacademy which also can be setup with a teacher/child relationship. The whole Idea is that kids work at their own speed if it was used in the classroom. The advantage being that they can replay the videos without "feeling stupid" having to ask how something is done a second or 3rd time. The practice sections have nice features like suggesting revision and only letting the kid pass the section when they have got several questions right in a row without mistakes.
I take the point that the example I gave about the worksheet is limited but new technology allows the education structure to change.

PinkFly

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

while I'd agree that school books are too expensive, I do question people giving out about the school uniform.

Come August the papers will once again trot out the same rubbish by adding this to the back to school costs.

If children weren't in school - would they wear nothing? Uniforms for the most part last the year - two jumpers, two shirts and 2 pairs of trousers that last the student for the year. I don't see the point in arguing about the uniform.

My lad is going in to 1st class this year and his uniforms never survived the whole 'year' and I wouldnt mind but I change him after school into his normal clothes..

If the children weren't at school they would wear regular clothes that most parents have plenty of that can be changed regularly more cheaply?

I think the issue people have with uniforms is that the schools have certain suppliers charging a fortune for a jumper with a crest when generic ones can be bought in dunnes and marks for a fraction of the price without a crest

silverharp

PinkFly wrote: »

My lad is going in to 1st class this year and his uniforms never survived the whole 'year' and I wouldnt mind but I change him after school into his normal clothes..

If the children weren't at school they would wear regular clothes that most parents have plenty of that can be changed regularly more cheaply?

I think the issue people have with uniforms is that the schools have certain suppliers charging a fortune for a jumper with a crest when generic ones can be bought in dunnes and marks for a fraction of the price without a crest

this is a rip off for sure. if all involved want uniforms at least they should be generic. My kids are in a private school and they dont have uniforms, we havnt noticed any brand "inflation" and our kids go to shool in a mixture of Dunnes and possibly M&S. Ours tend to grow out of clothes before they fall apart so a unifrom would just compound the waste from my view point

implausible

On the IT issue- some great ideas here but two massive problems: the assumption that every child has a computer at home and shoddy broadband provision and speed. Until these two issues are addressed, the widespread replacement of books with technology will not happen.

On the folders/photocopies thing - great in theory, hand out the photocopied sheets to the students. In reality, you end up with 'lost/can't find/never got the sheet miss' and a folder that exists only in theory. So I can see why the up-to-date same edition of the textbook is favoured by schools.

Book rental should be mandatory in all state-funded schools. End of.

cynder

If parents don't have a pc or broadband the school will update the ipads and or download ebooks, no written work will be done on an iPad except for presentations.

Some kids will be using books if they so wish, insurance covers accidental damage, water damage and dropping of the iPad as well as theft. Full cover costs between 60 and 90 Euro. Not sure about the excess. Must check that. But I Don't think there is... If you don't want to insure the iPad you don't have to, its your own risk.


They aim for the kids to have the study technique and presentations skills of college students by the end of 1st year.

There will be a lot of internet research anyone that does not have a home internet connection can use the schools computers.

You don't need an internet connection or to be synced to the schools computers to open an ebook.

The school is having top class broadband installed during the summer. 1st years will have lockers with CCTV footage. Outside school well we can only wait n see. just because someone drives a merc doesn't mean they are going to be car jacked. If they ate asked for their iPad and threatened they will be told to give it to them, the cop shop is less than a 30 second walk from the school and some of its grounds are over looked by the station. So it's probably in the safest location in the town.

It's the way forward...

implausible

Thanks for the info Grindelwald, I just want to clarify that my comments were in response to the suggestions about cloud computing, not the use of ipads. (Incidentally, I also have a major problem with the idea that only one product from one company is suitable for school purposes. There are many cheaper, more adaptable devices out there.)

As a English teacher, I would love to have all work typed and emailed to me. In my Senior classes, I encourage students to do this with long prepared essays. However, I cannot make it compulsory because I cannot assume that all students have access to a computer (and I would not force them to stay in school to complete work) and at the end of the day, the LC English exam requires students to handwrite approx 20 pages.

cynder

implausible wrote: »

Thanks for the info Grindelwald, I just want to clarify that my comments were in response to the suggestions about cloud computing.

As a English teacher, I would love to have all work typed and emailed to me. In my Senior classes, I encourage students to do this with long prepared essays. However, I cannot make it compulsory because I cannot assume that all students have access to a computer (and I would not force them to stay in school to complete work) and at the end of the day, the LC English exam requires students to handwrite approx 20 pages.

My hand would cramp after 3 pages let alone 20:eek:


I thinks teens should write by being able to type is just as important... No wonder gps writing is so messy....

Moonbeam

silverharp wrote: »

`

some interesting points. but isnt IT going in the "cloud" direction. The way forward even with older internet technology is to have an account with student/teacher accounts. No reason for a kid to have to carry any Ipad or anything else. They logon to the same account at school or home. And if there are issues with connection all the kid needs is a portable drive to sync between home and school

Which can only work if the school has a computer per student very few do,using iPads is probably the best way to utilise cloud computing in this context.

Jogathon

I like the idea of the ipads - but having had use of the Google Android, and having used an ipad then I'd choose the Android. Half the price, and has USB connector, and has the same functionality as the ipad. Why spend money if you don't need to?

kippy

Why use Ipads though? Extremely overpriced/expensive and plenty of cheaper standardised options out there?
Also leaving yourself open to Apple pricing.