Nephews and Nieces taken into Care

carrieblue

We reported our sister for neglect 5 years ago to social services since then she has had 2 more children . We were at a meeting yesterday where her children were taken into care, to be honest we are thrilled that they will be removed from the situation they were in. ( some time next week hopefully).

We had asked that she give us the option of looking after the children until she is in a better place herself to be able to cope with parenting and the duties and responsibilities it brings, however she declined this option and has decided that she would rather send them to a foster home with strangers. We are gutted...... Has anyone any advice on where to go from here as we would still like to look after them as they are our family and we are devastated that they will have to go now to a strangers home not ours ????

slarkin123

I know nothing of the legal end of things but i have to say how selfish of your sister. Is there no way that you can make her see it would be better for the family rather than strangers to have them. If they go to a foster home it will be very unlikely they will be kept together.

MarkR

Ouch, that must have been hard to go through. Tbh I don't want to know what those kids were going through.

Hope this helps.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/services_and_supports_for_children/children_in_care.html

seamus

I imagine that her decision to send them into foster care was not partly based on the fact that you had reported her.

There are legal mechanisms through which you can apply for access to the children, which should be much smoother and easier in foster home than with your sister. There may also be ways to apply to be appointed as temporary guardian for the children, however I suspect this would require input/approval from the parent.

It would be worth your while sitting down with a family law solicitor to see what your options are.

carrieblue

To be totally honest I do believe that she has said no because we reported her and her partner, we have tried to advise her that both parents would still be able to have as much contact with the children as they wished. Maybe we should seek legal advice However i am still concerned that this would be a lengthy process and in the mean time the poor children would be separated and alone

btb

if at all possible, the children will be placed together, unless there are too many for foster family to take. hse will usually run the rule over immediate family to see if there is anyone who could take the children, but if parent objects then this is a non runner. as regards access when in care, usually limited to parents. if you want access you would need to get legal advice.

Bannasidhe

You would be classified as having an 'interest' in the children as well as a biological and familial relationship. This puts you in a very strong position. Talk to their caseworker and say you wish to care for the children. While they will take the mother's view into consideration, their duty is to what is best for the children - not their mother. The fact that you know the children, are related to them, have already demonstrated concern for their welfare and taken action to protect them plus they would be kept together are huge points in your favour.

There will be a meeting to decide what the best course of action it - ask to participate and make your case then. As you have an 'interest' you are entitled to have input.

Good Luck!

cutymonalisa

Hi Op.

Is you sister placing the children into the Voluntary Care of the HSE or is the HSE applying to the court for a Care Order?? If the former she certainly has a stronger say but this shouldnt over-ride the best interests of the children if it is decided that relative care is preferable. If the latter (Care Order) then while her view is important and considered, the HSE ultimately make the decision about placement. Regardless of the childrens care status (voluntary / statutory), relative care always should be and is considered first. When doing so, the social work department will factor in the nature of your relationship with your sister, how many children are there to be cared for and of course your own circumstances further to your ability to meet their needs. Practically, you need to seek a meeting with the social worker / team leader to outline why the children should be placed with you, how you would meet their needs and your ability co-operate with whatever care plan is put in place.

Don't be too disheartened if the children are initially placed in mainstream foster care. Sometimes family dynamics may be very strained and hostile. The children are about to experience a huge upheaval and it may be best to place them into a neutral environment at first. However, keep discourse open with the social work department and look to attend the first Child in Care review meeting which will be 6-8 weeks after the children come into care. This is an important meeting where care plans will be reviewed.

Being a relative foster carer is very challenging - you have all the responsibilities of a mainstream carer with the added pressure of direct emotional involvement. All the best OP, pm me if you need advice

carrieblue

Thank you so much to everyone for all the advice that you are giving. It is really appreciated I think that maybe we expected things to be different.( My sister was advised at the meeting that it would be in her best interest to give the children otherwise they were going for a court order.)

We did have a good relationship with her however over the course of the last few years strained might be putting it nicely.

I am delighted to hear that we have not lost them fully and may have some hope of being able to offer them a life with with us their family I must admit we were beginning to think that we were fighting a loosing battle.

Thank you so much to everyone

binxeo

I know from a situation very close to home, you sister probably feels very betrayed by you for reporting her and for this reason will not let the children go to you.

Honestly as it is your sister you could have acted in a better way then getting the authorities involved. Why did you not offer to let her and her kids live with you and get help from social services for both her and her kids in your home.

In the end of the day, they are her children and as much as you might have the their best interests at heart, I am certain deep down so does she. I really feel like this is not a loving thing you have done towards your sister, you have torn her family apart as messed up as it may be and you have basically proven to your sister that she is a terrible mum and she has lost her kids now so she may never have the motivation to work to fix her issues to try and get her kids back.

Also the children you were looking out for our now with strangers because of the choices you have made so the turmoil they are going to go through rests on your shoulders. You might think you have done the right thing and feel all high and mighty but believe me, you have messed up big time. For everyone involved. You will never had a good relationship with you sister going forward I can promise you that. :mad:

And going forward the kids will most likely resent you when they are older for getting them put in care.

username123

binxeo wrote: »

I know from a situation very close to home, you sister probably feels very betrayed by you for reporting her and for this reason will not let the children go to you.

Honestly as it is your sister you could have acted in a better way then getting the authorities involved. Why did you not offer to let her and her kids live with you and get help from social services for both her and her kids in your home.

In the end of the day, they are her children and as much as you might have the their best interests at heart, I am certain deep down so does she. I really feel like this is not a loving thing you have done towards your sister, you have torn her family apart as messed up as it may be and you have basically proven to your sister that she is a terrible mum and she has lost her kids now so she may never have the motivation to work to fix her issues to try and get her kids back.

Also the children you were looking out for our now with strangers because of the choices you have made so the turmoil they are going to go through rests on your shoulders. You might think you have done the right thing and feel all high and mighty but believe me, you have messed up big time. For everyone involved. You will never had a good relationship with you sister going forward I can promise you that. :mad:

And going forward the kids will most likely resent you when they are older for getting them put in care.

Op - please ignore the rubbish in this post.

I have no doubt that you have done the right thing here, reporting someone to social services is done to protect children. Sometimes separating children from dysfunctional, dangerous or neglectful parents is the RIGHT thing to do.

The state does not take children away from parents without good reason. Your sister is an adult, she has had the choice to sort things out and she did not take it. Removing children from such an environment is the morally responsible action.

I hope that you are able to care for the children and please do not take any notice of people who try to load you with guilt or tell you you were wrong.

Jogathon

binxeo wrote: »

I know from a situation very close to home, you sister probably feels very betrayed by you for reporting her and for this reason will not let the children go to you.

Honestly as it is your sister you could have acted in a better way then getting the authorities involved. Why did you not offer to let her and her kids live with you and get help from social services for both her and her kids in your home.

In the end of the day, they are her children and as much as you might have the their best interests at heart, I am certain deep down so does she. I really feel like this is not a loving thing you have done towards your sister, you have torn her family apart as messed up as it may be and you have basically proven to your sister that she is a terrible mum and she has lost her kids now so she may never have the motivation to work to fix her issues to try and get her kids back.

Also the children you were looking out for our now with strangers because of the choices you have made so the turmoil they are going to go through rests on your shoulders. You might think you have done the right thing and feel all high and mighty but believe me, you have messed up big time. For everyone involved. You will never had a good relationship with you sister going forward I can promise you that. :mad:

And going forward the kids will most likely resent you when they are older for getting them put in care.

I disagree with this post. I think that the state is far too slow to investigate and take children away from unsafe and unsuitable parents and homes. OP was brilliant and brave to do what she did. She put the needs of the children first, if a grown-up can't be grown-up enough to look after her children then how can they stay with her and grown up happy and secure? If her relationship with her sister suffers it is the sister's fault. She was the one who broke the relationship.

nicowa

username123 wrote: »

Op - please ignore the rubbish in this post.

I have no doubt that you have done the right thing here, reporting someone to social services is done to protect children. Sometimes separating children from dysfunctional, dangerous or neglectful parents is the RIGHT thing to do.

The state does not take children away from parents without good reason. Your sister is an adult, she has had the choice to sort things out and she did not take it. Removing children from such an environment is the morally responsible action.

I hope that you are able to care for the children and please do not take any notice of people who try to load you with guilt or tell you you were wrong.

Jogathon wrote: »

I disagree with this post. I think that the state is far too slow to investigate and take children away from unsafe and unsuitable parents and homes. OP was brilliant and brave to do what she did. She put the needs of the children first, if a grown-up can't be grown-up enough to look after her children then how can they stay with her and grown up happy and secure? If her relationship with her sister suffers it is the sister's fault. She was the one who broke the relationship.

+1. You did a very brave thing. Putting the needs of the children above your relationship with your sister, knowing that she would more than likely hold you responsible. You are trying your best to help, even before you got the authorities involved and are doing your best to see that they are in the care of a family member. I wish there was more people like you willing to get involved when necessary - people always know when something like this is happening and more often than not close their eyes and refuse to see or get involved in family affairs. To the detriment of the children. If someone is refusing to get help or ask for help then you can't do anything more for them and the children need to come first.

I really wish you the best of luck.

binxeo

username123 wrote: »

Op - please ignore the rubbish in this post.

I have no doubt that you have done the right thing here, reporting someone to social services is done to protect children. Sometimes separating children from dysfunctional, dangerous or neglectful parents is the RIGHT thing to do.

The state does not take children away from parents without good reason. Your sister is an adult, she has had the choice to sort things out and she did not take it. Removing children from such an environment is the morally responsible action.

I hope that you are able to care for the children and please do not take any notice of people who try to load you with guilt or tell you you were wrong.

Has this happened to you....I think not when it does then you have the right to say whether what I am saying is rubbish. Experience counts for a lot and having been through this situation I AM talking from experience!!! Which clearly you are NOT!!

Please Kill Me

carrieblue wrote: »

We reported our sister for neglect 5 years ago to social services since then she has had 2 more children

You did that? To your own sister? Most disgusting thing I've ever read. Could not have offered to just help instead?

carrieblue wrote: »

we are devastated that they will have to go now to a strangers home not ours ????

Well you should have thought about that before you did what you did!! Too many people are quick to jump the gun and act without thinking of the consequences!

username123 wrote: »

Op - please ignore the rubbish in this post.

How is it rubbish if it's the truth? From what I've seen (and know), the poster has had experience in a similar situation and as stated, experience in a similar situation counts for a lot.

username123

binxeo wrote: »

Has this happened to you....I think not when it does then you have the right to say whether what I am saying is rubbish. Experience counts for a lot and having been through this situation I AM talking from experience!!! Which clearly you are NOT!!

Your assumptions about my experience in such situations are wrong, irrelevant and immature.

My experience is also irrelevant. State intervention is not something done lightly. Especially in this country. The neglect must have been significant if the children were actually removed from the situation.

I am making the assumption that the OP tried to help before reporting to social services, it would usually be a last resort action to be taking. Ive also no doubt that the OP is already suffering from her decision. Which would you have preferred, for the OP to leave children in a neglectful situation or for the state to remove them?

If she reported her sister 5 years ago then clearly her sister has been given opportunity after opportunity to resolve the situation and has chosen not to do so.

Yes its awful for the sister, but the sister is an adult in charge of her own destiny. The children are the ones who need someone to help them, which is what the OP has done.

username123

Please Kill Me wrote: »

You did that? To your own sister? Most disgusting thing I've ever read. Could not have offered to just help instead?



Well you should have thought about that before you did what you did!! Too many people are quick to jump the gun and act without thinking of the consequences!



How is it rubbish if it's the truth? From what I've seen (and know), the poster has had experience in a similar situation and as stated, experience in a similar situation counts for a lot.

More rubbish.

I genuinely think some posters here would prefer for children to be left in dreadful situations rather than hurt the feelings of an adult. Very immature and idealistic viewpoint.

Please Kill Me

username123 wrote: »

My experience is also irrelevant.

It's VERY relevant if you try to give an opinion on something you know nothing about!! :rolleyes:

username123 wrote: »

I genuinely think some posters here would prefer for children to be left in dreadful situations rather than hurt the feelings of an adult. Very immature and idealistic viewpoint.

Actually - no. Children being neglected/hurt/abused should definitely be put into care, away from the harmful situation they are in, but you don't know the whole story here. You can't presume. My point in this particular circumstance is that the OP can't rat out their own sister and then expect things to go their way.

January

I think we can assume that the children were put into care because they were in danger, of some sort, from their parent(s). Children in Ireland are not taken into care lightly.

*Mod Note* I don't want to hear another word about the OP being terrible for reporting her/his sister. Answer constructively or do not answer at all, the op is asking for advice on what to do to keep the children within the family. Next person to post about the OP being terrible/horrible for reporting her sister get's an automatic 3 day ban from the forum.

January

On Monday morning OP you need to contact a solicitor and see what rights you have with regards to access visits to your nieces/nephews. My first hand experience of this is that if the children stay with the family, the mother can have a lot of visitation rights to the children, whereas with a foster family they may be restricted to a few hours a couple of times a week. The mother should really think about leaving the children with family, she may be bitter but it's best for the children to be kept in a familiar environment.

MariMel

I want to add a side note that might be helpful to know.
A few yrs back I decided I wasnt well enough to look after my son and along with the social workers I agreed that my son should live with my parents. It was for him and me the best thing I ever did. He thrived and I had the time to get myself better. It took a long time for even us, a voluntary arrangement, to be able to work together with ease.
But what I will say is that it was financially hard on my parents. My SW payments were reduced to reflect I no longer had a child living with me and my child benefit was transferred to my parents. But as it was a voluntary agreement to allow my son live with his grandparents, they were not entitled to any fostering payment, any tax credits or any SW help. (both my parents are retired)
OP I genuinely feel you are doing this with the best interests of your nieces and nephews and I hope you have fully thought out the practicalities of having them live with you. I am by no means suggesting you have any financial motivation in fostering them yourself so please dont think thats what i am saying here.

On the flip side, id had a breakdown when my son was a toddler and at the time I was going through a very, very difficult patch with my family. Id spoken to the district health nurse about rest-bite care on weekends to help me get through it. But feeling how I was regarding them, I rejected my families offer to help and insisted that if I was to put my son into rest-bite that it definitely wasnt with them. In effect I at that time was choosing to put my son in care rather than have him be with his grandparents. As it turned out I got my son into day care and that helped me greatly.

bisset

It sounds as if someone should have advised your parents on Guardian's Payment ( used to be called orphan's allowance).

If you were unable to care for your son or contribute financially for him due to health reasons then an application for this would have been appropriate.

MariMel

bisset wrote: »

It sounds as if someone should have advised your parents on Guardian's Payment ( used to be called orphan's allowance).

If you were unable to care for your son or contribute financially for him due to health reasons then an application for this would have been appropriate.

I asked in the SW office and asked the social workers and asked the fostering agency.....all of which said since I voluntarily handed my son over to my parents to look after that my parents would not be entitled to anything.
Looking into the guardianship allowance and from my reading of it my parents should have been able to claim that. Its funny how noone mentioned this to me even though they knew it delayed my getting better substantially as it caused me huge distress to know that my retired parents were (and for the best part) still are financially supporting him. I'll let you know how I get on. thanks.

carrieblue

My thanks again to everyone for their advice and feedback, constructive and otherwise .

Our family have decided that we will wait and see what happens in the next week or two before contacting a solicitor.

To stress that contacting Socail workers was not a decision we took likely, we did offer help time and time again but a person has to acknowledge that they have problem before they realise they need help. All of our offers were rejected, so in the end as the children were to young to speak for themselves we had to . We will always be there for our Sister even if she does not see it at this time our doors are always open .

Please Kill Me

carrieblue wrote: »

....a person has to acknowledge that they have problem before they realise they need help. All of our offers were rejected...

This is VERY true. Regardless, I hope the kids get sorted one way or the other. Best of luck.

MariMel

bisset wrote: »

It sounds as if someone should have advised your parents on Guardian's Payment ( used to be called orphan's allowance).

If you were unable to care for your son or contribute financially for him due to health reasons then an application for this would have been appropriate.

I enquired about this to be told that I didnt abandon my son so therefore my parents would not be able to claim for it.
Its weird because it was a voluntary arrangement my parents get nothing, yet when I want to have my son back living with me, I have to go through the full assessment process as if it hadnt been a voluntary arrangement.

Laura_13

Please Kill Me wrote: »

You did that? To your own sister? Most disgusting thing I've ever read. Could not have offered to just help instead?
Well you should have thought about that before you did what you did!! Too many people are quick to jump the gun and act without thinking of the consequences!
How is it rubbish if it's the truth? From what I've seen (and know), the poster has had experience in a similar situation and as stated, experience in a similar situation counts for a lot.

Op reporting child abusers.. be them strangers or family is the right thing to do. In normal circumstances a childs best place is with their mother but not in the case where a mother cannot or will not look after them.
I assume, that you thought this through before you went ahead with it as some posters seem to think this was a spur of the moment decision that you made over a quick drink with the girls.. I assume that you did speak with your sister, reson with her, fight with her, deal with her and eventually came knocking on the door of the authorites... you did the right thing

Op it is not your fault that others had a hard time in the system.. and just because something happened to previous posters to make them react so angrily to this post does not mean the same thing will happen to your nieces and nephews being in a "similar situation" does not mean being in the same situation I bet there are big differences in both cases.. if it was me I would have done the same..