The "witching hour"

lounakin

I would like to start a thread for this straining phenomenon and perhaps get some insight, or support!

My daughter is now a month and for the last week or so she has been acting insanely fussy from 8pm to about midnight! First of all, I'm certain it's not gas as she is not 'pushing' or twisting her body and jerking her legs like she does when she is gassy. She's just angry and upset the whole time. We manage to keep her quiet for 5 minutes at a time but nothing seems to work. She's been nursing a lot during the day but during that time she doesn't want to eat, she doesn't sleep (although she is exhausted and yawns), she doesn't want a pacifier and doesn't respond to anything for more than 5 minutes. Last night I had her in the sling bouncing on a gym ball with a pacifier AND the vacuum cleaner at once! She kept quiet for about 10 minutes and then woke up like she'd been pinched and started crying again. She usually stops very suddenly at half eleven or twelve and sleeps for 5 straight hours after that.
During those long hours I feel like such a crap, useless mother! It's so upsetting...

She also rarely sleeps during the day unless I take her out in the buggy, which I do every day for at least two hours but sometimes that's the only sleep she'll get in daytime. Has anybody experienced this as well?

How Strange

lounakin that all sounds totally normal for a newborn baby. It usually stops between 12-16 weeks. It's tough and I remember we had some horrendous evenings but it is a phase which will pass. I found it good if I held him lengthways across my left arm, my arm under his tummy and his back resting against my stomach. Then rock left to right with a little kick at the end. It definitely helped my son with wind.

Otherwise a sling or look up some baby massage techniques on you tube. I think weleda have a really good clip demonstrating techniques.

lounakin

My baby doesn't seem to suffer from wind so I know that's not a problem. I tried massaging (thanks for the tip on youtube I'll go have a look!) but she's only calm when I do it, then she goes back to screaming! She also loves to swin, I bought a neckring that goes around her neck (it's designed for it) and she actually swims on her own. She LOVES it but then we take her out and she screams bloody murder again... I guess that's what we have to do, keep her calm for small periods of time... that's all we can hope for! lol

missis aggie

Hi,
Same happened to my little girl. She was quite upset between 5 and 8 and then gone asleep. No wind, not hungry, changed ...just upset. And suddenly it finished the only thing that helped was holding her close I know there could be some reasons but the fact that it happened same time
Good luck and don't be upset I'm sure you're great mum

lounakin

Thanks, it is reassuring to see that I'm not the only one! Oh damn... look at the time! It's almost the time when she kicks off... better brace myself!

activegal

Hi lounakin

My 10 week old has a similar routine - she's in great form all day, very happy-go-lucky, and then turns into a monster from 8-10pm...

I was told its down to 'overload' - the little ones are exhausted basically by all the stimulus they have had during the day - sights, sounds, sensations etc etc - which made sense to me and gave me some peace of mind then..

pwurple

Ours freaked out at that time when she missed naps earlier and got overtired. They get so wound up when they don't get sleep, it's weird. You would think they would just go to sleep, but no, they turn into mega grouchy pants instead.

Sleep begets sleep my mam would say. More naps, less clenched ball of angry baby.

Ours settled way better in the evening when we went from one big nap to three or four smaller day time naps of about 40 mins each. We used the baby whisperer book. Bouncy chair might do the trick as well if the buggy works for naps.

Oh, and don't feel like a bad mother, you and the baby are just getting to know eachother! We all have to learn what they like and don't like as we go along. Everyone is winging it, really!

lounakin

'Overload' makes sense since I've been taking her out everyday for hours in the pram (she usually sleeps through most of it although lately she has started to just stare and not sleep!).
The problem I'm having is that I can't get her to sleep otherwise! I know she's tired and I know in the evening she's exhausted but there's nothing I can do. She has her last sleep between 7 and 9 am and after that she's awake all day. I try to put her to sleep after every feed or shortly after but she won't go down. Today it took me two hours to put her for a 20 minutes nap! So I'd love it if she could do more naps during the day to avoid the evening problems but she's just not interested in sleeping!

nicowa

I'd say keep trying with the naps. One mother told me her very little one only goes for an hour between naps. So you could give that a try. My little girl is the same if she's overtired and missed a nap. She won't go down after a certain time and the I have to wait it out until her bedtime. And I found that she started being awake the whole time when out. She was just too interested in everything. And when she does sleep it's only for 20mins, where at home she'll nap for an hour or so.

The only other thing I can think of is a dairy intolerence. R has one and when she switched onto formula it was a nightmare. Your little one could be more sensitive and could be reacting to it in your milk. R would only react at night time when it had sort of built up in her body.

pwurple

Oh you poor thing. That is a lot of waking time for a newborn, both of you must be wrecked, especially if you are walking the buggy the whole time she is sleeping.

The baby whisperer routine is Eat, Activity, Sleep, repeat. I think the logic is that when they are full of food they get a bit of an energy spurt, so they stay awake a bit. Sleep is about two and a half hours after a feed, sometimes less.

Have you tried a bouncy chair with vibrate? They are about 30 euro.

Are you using a soother?

Car seat, buggy and bouncy chair were the only places mine would nap at that age, and then only if tucked in well (no limbs flapping to wake themselves up) and a soother to suck on.

lounakin

Pwurple, yes we are walking for most of the time with the buggy but we stop for coffee and the baby usually wakes, I feed her and she goes back to sleep. Then we have to hurry and get moving!
She loves to 'play' after most feeds and I let her do so but it doesn't matter what I do really. I'll keep trying though! The only good thing is that she's always been aware of night-time and slept quite well. At night she doesn't want to play after eating, she goes straight back to sleep.

I have a bouncy chair, she likes it but it makes her more awake! Her little eyes open wide and she looks around. I'm not using a soother, I tried but she hates it for now.

You're totally right about the arms flapping... most of the time that's the reason she wakes up from a nap...

pwurple

It sounds like you have night time going well. That is really good.

You've done this I am sure, no toys on the bouncer for nap time, dim the lights and sit where she can't see you for a minute or two. Way too interesting otherwise.

Unless you are totally against soothers in principle, I would try another few types. There are about 5 shapes of teat on them, have a look for something that matches your own nipple shape. Sounds mental, but it works.

lounakin

I haven't actually tried that! I usually leave things as they are so she knows it's daytime. So you put the baby in the bouncy chair with the vibration?

I'm not against soothers but I'm not totally for them either. I bought 2 types out of despair. One type she hates, the other she'll take but only if she's in a certain 'zone'. But it's never been successful so far and I have to hold it in her mouth... and for some reason seeing her with the soother in her mouth breaks my heart!

IvyTheTerrible

My baby is an angel all day and all night EXCEPT for between about 5pm and 8-8.30pm. He is more narky, wants to eat more just generally more ratty. One explanation is the overload factor, also, if you are breastfeeding, my midwife told m that the milk is less rich in the afternoon, so the baby might demand more.

pwurple

She might be finding it hard to nap with all the stimulation maybe? I'm a huge fan of naps, even as a toddler now, my little one is a much happier child when she has had her naps. She is still on two, sometimes three naps a day. I can see a massive difference in her when she misses them. She doesn't understand what I'm saying without a few repeats, her speech starts to slow down and lose clarity, she bumps into things and gets frustrated and cranky. She goes bananas in the evenings even now if she has missed naps. Overtiredness makes for freak-outs and being upset.

I'm an engineer, so my instincts were to look at mothering as a bit of a project to be managed. As I was a bit babybrained after the birth, I even printed the list below out and stuck it on the wall in the kitchen so I could remember it.

The things that a stimulating to a small baby are bright light, sounds (especially high pitched), Colours and shapes, touch.

The things that soothe them are warmth, darkness, cuddles or swaddling, low pitched hums, something to suck on, and gentle vibrations.

When I thought baby was tired, I would remove as much stimulation as I could, and do the soothing things to help her to drop off. I would only turn on the vibration on the bouncy chair if I hadn't caught the sleepy cues fast enough, and she was getting into overtired stage.

It's up to you on the soothers. I only used them at nap time and bedtime, and she spits them out as soon as she has nodded off. I hate to see a baby dummied-up when they are awake. They have noises to make to chat with us, little squeaks and coos, those are lovely! Babies love to suck on something when they are going to sleep though, it's very comforting for them, and when I was breastfeeding at the start, sometimes I got the feeling she was using my nipple as a comforter, rather than food.

I'd say you had the orthadontic flat ones by the sounds of it. No small baby can keep them in, I think they are for older kids or something.

Neyite

My little one is 5 weeks, and breastfed on demand. I am hoping to establish a sleep/waking routine as we have none. He does the constant feed/cry thing in the evenings too, I'm glad its normal.

What kind of daily schedule of sleep/ activities should I try to introduce?

Hannibal Smith

We've the same problem opposite ends of the clock...our little lad goes to bed at 7pm...sleeps all the way through till 6am. We've tried putting him to bed later....giving him his last bottle later etc etc....but 5:30/6am he's awake. His room is blacked out so its not sunrise....just seems his witching hour is the opposite side of the clock. And he's such a dodgy sleeper as it its....put him asleep and anything sound could wake him and that's it....he's fully awake, no going back.

His brother was the complete opposite...would fall asleep anywhere any time and conk out.

lounakin

pwurple wrote: »

She might be finding it hard to nap with all the stimulation maybe? I'm a huge fan of naps, even as a toddler now, my little one is a much happier child when she has had her naps. She is still on two, sometimes three naps a day. I can see a massive difference in her when she misses them. She doesn't understand what I'm saying without a few repeats, her speech starts to slow down and lose clarity, she bumps into things and gets frustrated and cranky. She goes bananas in the evenings even now if she has missed naps. Overtiredness makes for freak-outs and being upset.

The things that a stimulating to a small baby are bright light, sounds (especially high pitched), Colours and shapes, touch.

The things that soothe them are warmth, darkness, cuddles or swaddling, low pitched hums, something to suck on, and gentle vibrations.

When I thought baby was tired, I would remove as much stimulation as I could, and do the soothing things to help her to drop off. I would only turn on the vibration on the bouncy chair if I hadn't caught the sleepy cues fast enough, and she was getting into overtired stage.

I'd say you had the orthadontic flat ones by the sounds of it. No small baby can keep them in, I think they are for older kids or something.

Yes you are probably right! The only reason I didn't remove all the stimuli for nap time was to show her the difference between night and day, which she seems to get very well anyway. So I've been trying that and so far it seems to be working. I noticed that this morning at 5 am the light started coming in and no matter how tired she was, she was still staring at the light behind the curtain, finding it way too fascinating to sleep so I do realise she needs less stimulation to nap. So I had her in a pitch dark room, swaddled, rocked and hummed to! lol! It worked like a charm.
I bought the orthodontic soother, didn't really know which to get... yes it's kind of flat. But if I can do without, I will.