If the FAI issued an ultimatum - LOI & National Team

born2bwild

eagle eye wrote: »

You have to have a product that people want. This constant moaning on here that Irish people don't support the LoI is ridiculous.

Its the same as any business, the better the product the more that want it. If you don't have a very good product you will struggle to make a living and probably end up selling your business or going bust. Its up the clubs and the league to attract the public. You cannot expect anybody to buy something they don't like.

Football is not a matter of commodification. It's more important than that.

Supporting a League of Ireland football team is not a commodity; it's an experience; it is warts and all, unpolished, football, plain and simple. It does have a price tag - 15 euros at the gate - but it is not something that you 'buy' it's something that is a part of you and you are a part of it. This guff about 'products' is an impoverished way of thinking about football similar to way in which some citizens of this state seem to think of themselves as 'consumers' in an 'economy'.

'Supporting' English football when you do not live in that country can only be, because of geography, a shallow, marketplace transaction. You cannot be a part of it. Of course, it can be a part of you - Irish people genuinely love English teams - but that love is unrequitable; they'll take your cash and you'll get the 'products' but you'll never be a part of it.

If you want a 'Product' keep paying your sky subscription and get your inflatable hammer ready for the Aviva in the Autumn. Don't expect much - every cent spent, every joule of energy expended on the English League and not on our own league ensures that there will be many many years of 4-0 humiliations to come.

All together now:

"Low lie the fields of Athenry....!"

Paul Tergat

Hard really to know what the solution is

If fans go to LOI matches, even if the standard is perceived as 'bad', for the next few years it will improve. If you go, they get gate receipts and have the chance to then reinvest that money to bring better quality through in the next few years.

The problem, as I see it, is that the cycle goes - nobody goes - no money - cant invest - weak standard - nobody goes and it keeps going. The cycle has to be broken somewhere...

Oat23

Lets be honest, we all know the cycle wont ever be broken. People just don't want to go to League of Ireland games. The national team will always be crap.

Paul Tergat

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Lets be honest, we all know the cycle wont ever be broken. People just don't want to go to League of Ireland games. The national team will always be crap.

It can be broken but people just dont want to do it, whether its fans, potential investors etc etc

From my own experience, I came here to college when I was 18. Went to UCD and lived in Belfield so went to maybe 6 or 7 home games a year. The standard wasn't good but I wanted to watch some footie on a Friday night. I was surprised that the lads I lived with on campus, all Irish, laughed when I went to the matches. It kinda puts you off going, as nobody else goes, and since then I get to the odd game in belfield and have been to a few in Dalymount when I lived close.

It's sad but people look down on the league and now I rarely go as nobody else I know is bothered. How do you change that?

CiaranC

Paul Tergat wrote: »

It can be broken but people just dont want to do it, whether its fans, potential investors etc etc

Its the same thing Paul. Do you think the Fields Of Athenry brigades spent the aftermath of the other nights game discussing how to bring about the root and branch change needed throughout Irish football? The will is not there. Most of them do not even associate the national team and Irish football.

Paul Tergat

CiaranC wrote: »

Its the same thing Paul. Do you think the Fields Of Athenry brigades spent the aftermath of the other nights game discussing how to bring about the root and branch change needed throughout Irish football? The will is not there. Most of them do not even associate the national team and Irish football.

I dont want to go slating the lads who were out there in Poland

Im in a weird spot cause I see the national league completely different from the national team. My problem was, when I first came over here it was soon hammered into me that going to watch my nearest LOI match (and usually on my own) was a no go.

Whats the solution?

Ebbs

Im surprised people havnt suggested wrapping up the LoI in order to put the national team out of their misery.

Small crowds, terrible standard of football etc.

eagle eye

born2bwild wrote: »

Football is not a matter of commodification. It's more important than that.

Supporting a League of Ireland football team is not a commodity; it's an experience; it is warts and all, unpolished, football, plain and simple. It does have a price tag - 15 euros at the gate - but it is not something that you 'buy' it's something that is a part of you and you are a part of it. This guff about 'products' is an impoverished way of thinking about football similar to way in which some citizens of this state seem to think of themselves as 'consumers' in an 'economy'.

'Supporting' English football when you do not live in that country can only be, because of geography, a shallow, marketplace transaction. You cannot be a part of it. Of course, it can be a part of you - Irish people genuinely love English teams - but that love is unrequitable; they'll take your cash and you'll get the 'products' but you'll never be a part of it.

If you want a 'Product' keep paying your sky subscription and get your inflatable hammer ready for the Aviva in the Autumn. Don't expect much - every cent spent, every joule of energy expended on the English League and not on our own league ensures that there will be many many years of 4-0 humiliations to come.

All together now:

"Low lie the fields of Athenry....!"

You are talking about the minority there. The majority want a bang for their buck. You have to cater to a larger audience if you want to be successful. I know that you don't like hearing that as somebody who loves a club warts and all but it is a business, its money, good public relations etc. that makes you more successful as a business.

monkey9

eagle eye wrote: »

You are talking about the minority there. The majority want a bang for their buck. You have to cater to a larger audience if you want to be successful. I know that you don't like hearing that as somebody who loves a club warts and all but it is a business, its money, good public relations etc. that makes you more successful as a business.

LOI isn't a business!! It's grassroots , it's basic football clubs! Other people don't see that as glory, they only see what tv tells them what glory should be! Sky dripfeeds them!!! They're a clockwork orange with matchsticks holding up their eyelids!!!

CiaranC

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Im in a weird spot cause I see the national league completely different from the national team.

Youll note I said Irish football, not national league. The national League is just one part of the problem.

Whats the solution?

The solution has to come from and be driven by the FAI. Some measures are going into place, national leagues at underage level etc, but they need to become the main focus of the association over the next 20 years. We need a proper football pyramid, investment in clubs who will field teams at every age level to U5 soccer camps to national league teams. Elite club mergers between our conveyor belt schoolboy clubs and national league clubs. Investment in coaching, every elite club should have UEFA certified coaches. Investment in football academies. Investment in facilities to bring in modest crowds to make clubs self sustaining, so they can finally move forward.

Its an absolutely massive task, we are 20 years behind the likes of Denmark and Croatia and there is absolutely no interest from the wider Irish "sports fan" public to do it - they are more interested in Manchester United, nor from our football association who appear to be interested in the senior mens international team and its stadium only, nor from our underage structures who are outright hostile to any attempt to disrupt their gravy train for the wider good of Irish football.

Its depressing.

Paul Tergat

monkey9 wrote: »

LOI isn't a business!! It's grassroots , it's basic football clubs! Other people don't see that as glory, they only see what tv tells them what glory should be! Sky dripfeeds them!!! They're a clockwork orange with matchsticks holding up their eyelids!!!

So how do you either

1. move those who are already in love with the EPL to watch LOI matches?

2. ensure young fans watch LOI from the outset over EPL?

If they are all dripfed then how do you change it?

Francie Barrett

CiaranC wrote: »

Its depressing.

What is depressing is that so called supporters of Irish football can't even get behind their own.

Paul Tergat

CiaranC wrote: »

Youll note I said Irish football, not national league. The national League is just one part of the problem.

Aye my bad, had a few and re-read there

CiaranC wrote: »

The solution has to come from and be driven by the FAI. Some measures are going into place, national leagues at underage level etc, but they need to become the main focus of the association over the next 20 years. We need a proper football pyramid, investment in clubs who will field teams at every age level to U5 soccer camps to national league teams. Elite club mergers between our conveyor belt schoolboy clubs and national league clubs. Investment in coaching, every elite club should have UEFA certified coaches. Investment in football academies. Investment in facilities to bring in modest crowds to make clubs self sustaining, so they can finally move forward.

Its an absolutely massive task, we are 20 years behind the likes of Denmark and Croatia and there is absolutely no interest from the wider Irish "sports fan" public to do it - they are more interested in Manchester United, nor from our football association who appear to be interested in the senior mens international team and its stadium only, nor from our underage structures who are outright hostile to any attempt to disrupt their gravy train for the wider good of Irish football.

Its depressing.

Cheers for reply. So is the investment there? Do the FAI have the money for this? If they do, do they care about changing it?

eagle eye

CiaranC wrote: »

Youll note I said Irish football, not national league. The national League is just one part of the problem.

The solution has to come from and be driven by the FAI. Some measures are going into place, national leagues at underage level etc, but they need to become the main focus of the association over the next 20 years. We need a proper football pyramid, investment in clubs who will field teams at every age level to U5 soccer camps to national league teams. Elite club mergers between our conveyor belt schoolboy clubs and national league clubs. Investment in coaching, every elite club should have UEFA certified coaches. Investment in football academies. Investment in facilities to bring in modest crowds to make clubs self sustaining, so they can finally move forward.

Its an absolutely massive task, we are 20 years behind the likes of Denmark and Croatia and there is absolutely no interest from the wider Irish "sports fan" public to do it - they are more interested in Manchester United, nor from our football association who appear to be interested in the senior mens international team and its stadium only, nor from our underage structures who are outright hostile to any attempt to disrupt their gravy train for the wider good of Irish football.

Its depressing.

Thats an excellent post CiaranC. One of the huge problems, and its not only to do with football, is that Irish people love the quick buck and never look at the long term picture. Its why the whole country is in such a state right now. You have to get people who are willing to wait a long time to see a return on their investment whether that be financial or just time thats put in.

You need proper PR too. Like for instance if there is some young guy coming through the ranks that can be called the 'Irish Messi'. That sort of thing turns peoples head and they'll want to see this kid in the flesh. Anytime a player turns down a move abroad you have to have the PR guy there getting this in the paper with a couple of quotes about how the league is improving and moving closer to being able to compete at European level. Thats the sort of stuff again that turns heads and attracts people to the game. Theres a hell of a lot of work involved in making that happen.

CiaranC

Francie Barrett wrote: »

What is depressing is that so called supporters of Irish football can't even get behind their own.

I get behind my own every day of the week lad. What do you contribute to Irish football?

monkey9

Paul Tergat wrote: »

So how do you either

1. move those who are already in love with the EPL to watch LOI matches?

2. ensure young fans watch LOI from the outset over EPL?

If they are all dripfed then how do you change it?

First of all, you can't move them! Simple as that!! If you love Liverpool, Man U, Everton etc, you're not going to change that!! You can't compete with it!! So embrace it!!

Don't say, 'forget that team, support this!!' Say, 'you like football yeah?? Go to a football match on friday so??' In fact, i'd almost guilt them into it!! You like football?? Prove it! Come on down to Richmond Park, Dalyer, the Showgrounds, Turners Cross etc! Go to an actual match! Get yourself a burger at halftime!!

If i remember right, you're from Bradford and support them but you're also a Man U fan! So it's not just an Irish thing!!! It happens over in Britain also!! You see flags at England games with York City, Chester etc printed upon them because to those fans, that's their glory!!

LOI fans as well need to get it into their heads that you can't compete with the Premier League. You can't force people into choosing and you don't have to. Just get them to go to actual matches and then let them decide for themselves!! They can still do to LOI games and watch the English teams on tv!

CiaranC

monkey9 wrote: »

First of all, you can't move them! Simple as that!!

If this forum demonstrates anything, its that this generation of barstool fans are lost to us and that very limited resources should be spent on trying to attract them. We need to create new football fans in this country and not rely on those who are football fans only in their own imagination.

We get more much, much more mileage by promoting to kids, and by extension to their families via our underage teams, our schools programmes, our junior hoops club, our summer/easter soccer camps. Family season tickets are a mainstay christmas gift for thousands of families around Dublin. The GAA have it right, get them young and they are with you for life.

Paul Tergat

Some good points mate

monkey9 wrote: »

First of all, you can't move them! Simple as that!! If you love Liverpool, Man U, Everton etc, you're not going to change that!! You can't compete with it!! So embrace it!!

I know a fair few of my mates are a bit flaky in their support and their loyalty the their English team is easily questionable... it just wont be a switch to a LOI team though

monkey9 wrote: »

Don't say, 'forget that team, support this!!' Say, 'you like football yeah?? Go to a football match on friday so??' In fact, i'd almost guilt them into it!! You like football?? Prove it! Come on down to Richmond Park, Dalyer, the Showgrounds, Turners Cross etc! Go to an actual match! Get yourself a burger at halftime!!

My biggest problem here is the mindset of people wont change.

First, being laughed at for entertaining the idea of going to a LOI ground on a friday night

Second, the attitude of my mates (i cant speak for all obviously) is that fridays are for hitting a bar and on the beer.

monkey9 wrote: »

If i remember right, you're from Bradford and support them but you're also a Man U fan! So it's not just an Irish thing!!! It happens over in Britain also!! You see flags at England games with York City, Chester etc printed upon them because to those fans, that's their glory!!

Correct. From Bradford but support United first. I make trips home to England to see United but when im home and cant get to United (rare) I get down to Valley Parade and watch the shambles that are city. I cant knock the 10000 averages they get in the 4th tier.

monkey9 wrote: »

LOI fans as well need to get it into their heads that you can't compete with the Premier League. You can't force people into choosing and you don't have to. Just get them to go to actual matches and then let them decide for themselves!! They can still do to LOI games and watch the English teams on tv!

This for me is it. My mates support English teams and only one of them bothers with the LOI. Support United on the Sat/Sun and jump on a random LOI team on the Friday before going out on the piss. Its real difficult convincing these lads, with their preconceptions, that
LOI is worth going to over the pub on a Friday, as sad as that sounds

bohsman

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats an excellent post CiaranC. One of the huge problems, and its not only to do with football, is that Irish people love the quick buck and never look at the long term picture. Its why the whole country is in such a state right now. You have to get people who are willing to wait a long time to see a return on their investment whether that be financial or just time thats put in.

You need proper PR too. Like for instance if there is some young guy coming through the ranks that can be called the 'Irish Messi'. That sort of thing turns peoples head and they'll want to see this kid in the flesh. Anytime a player turns down a move abroad you have to have the PR guy there getting this in the paper with a couple of quotes about how the league is improving and moving closer to being able to compete at European level. Thats the sort of stuff again that turns heads and attracts people to the game. Theres a hell of a lot of work involved in making that happen.

We've all tried it, McClean, Fahey, McCourt, Hoolahan etc, we were shouting to anyone that would listen about how good they were but nobody would believe till they got on the magic flight and had a training session or two in England and then it was obviously a case of the English training and they were actually muck when in the LOI.

Paul Tergat

CiaranC wrote: »

If this forum demonstrates anything, its that this generation of barstool fans are lost to us and that very limited resources should be spent on trying to attract them. We need to create new football fans in this country and not rely on those who are football fans only in their own imagination.

We get more much, much more mileage by promoting to kids, and by extension to their families via our underage teams, our schools programmes, our junior hoops club, our summer/easter soccer camps. Family season tickets are a mainstay christmas gift for thousands of families around Dublin. The GAA have it right, get them young and they are with you for life.

I dunno mate all these ideas seem nice in principle but it just doesnt seem all that practical. A dad will only take his kid to a LOI match, let alone grab em a season ticket, if they have an interest themselves. As you rightly point out most of this generation dont have that interest. How do you get em early if the parents have no interest in taking them?

monkey9

Ciaran has a good point about getting them early! That's what happened to me......to a point! My da grew up in Drimnagh and went to a load of Pat's games when he was a kid!! He stopped going as he got older, but they were always his LOI team.

He always supported Leeds as well and that's the team whom i most associated him with. But i never forgot him telling me those stories when i was young of when he was eight or so going to Richmond Park with his brothers!

The first match i ever went to was my Dad taking me to a Pat's match. That was his first match back there in years and probably his last as well.

Now, i've grown up a Liverpool fan and that will never leave me. But there always something about Pat's that was always there with me (even though i'm Dublin northside, born and bred). I 'd look out for their results on Saturday mornings in the paper.

A few years ago, i decided to just go to a game at Richmond! Once i went, i was hooked. That was it!! Live football right there!! It was unreal! Season ticket purchased and every season since. A lot of posters on this forum are missing out!!

Basically, my point is, get them young!! Yes, i'll use the term....groom the little ba$tards!!! Just plant little thoughts in their head even. Trust me, they will thank you for it in the long term!!!

Francie Barrett

CiaranC wrote: »

I get behind my own every day of the week lad. What do you contribute to Irish football?

I admit, I could do more. I will lay all my cards on the deck, insult all you will.

As you can guess, I am from Galway. However, I do not follow any of the established LOI clubs (although I have been to Galway United games in the past). I never trusted Galway United, and trust their supposed predecessors (Salthill Devon) even less so. Having said that, I think I have been to every single Ireland under 21 match that has been played at Terryland in the last ten years (I have seen the likes of Gibson and Coleman play before they were a twinkle in most fans eyes). I always have gotten a kick out of seeing our young lads do well for themselves and will always love to support our next generation. Even though the results have been mostly poor, it has never, ever once put me off going to watch our lads. Having said all that and being honest, I can't afford to pay a three figure sum to watch our senior team. Not only would I need to take time off work (3 kids to feed in a single income family, but I would also have to stump up petrol and ticket money for me and my lads to watch a game in Landsdowne, never mind going to Poland.

The only reason I got into local soccer years ago was because my son loves the game and I wanted to be part of that. For 6 years I was the manager/trainer/babysitter of an underage Galway team. We won a few games, but unfortunately lost even more. Having said that, I think the lads genuinely did enjoy the experience of competitive football. However, once my son progressed from prepubescence to being worried about his social life and girls, his interests in football fell off a cliff, Mine decline shortly afterwards. While I will still raise a few quid for the club, I am not actively involved anymore.

Francie Barrett

CiaranC wrote: »

If this forum demonstrates anything, its that this generation of barstool fans are lost to us.

Ah Jesus.

Blah, blah, blah - barstooler this, barstooler that.

monkey9

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I admit, I could do more. I will lay all my cards on the deck, insult all you will.

As you can guess, I am from Galway. However, I do not follow any of the established LOI clubs (although I have been to Galway United games in the past). I never trusted Galway United, and trust their supposed predecessors (Salthill Devon) even less so. Having said that, I think I have been to every single Ireland under 21 match that has been played at Terryland in the last ten years (I have seen the likes of Gibson and Coleman play before they were a twinkle in most fans eyes). I always have gotten a kick out of seeing our young lads do well for themselves and will always love to support our next generation. Even though the results have been mostly poor, it has never, ever once put me off going to watch our lads. Having said all that and being honest, I can't afford to pay a three figure sum to watch our senior team. Not only would I need to take time off work (3 kids to feed in a single income family, but I would also have to stump up petrol and ticket money for me and my lads to watch a game in Landsdowne, never mind going to Poland.

The only reason I got into local soccer years ago was because my son loves the game and I wanted to be part of that. For 6 years I was the manager/trainer/babysitter of an underage Galway team. We won a few games, but unfortunately lost even more. Having said that, I think the lads genuinely did enjoy the experience of competitive football. However, once my son progressed from prepubescence to being worried about his social life and girls, his interests in football fell off a cliff, Mine decline shortly afterwards. While I will still raise a few quid for the club, I am not actively involved anymore.

The U-21 games you've been to where you've seen future stars, you can get that on a consistant basis though following LOI!!! One of my favourite seasons in recent years is Keith Fahey's last year at St Pat's!! Awesome to watch!!

monkey9

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Ah Jesus.

Blah, blah, blah - barstooler this, barstooler that.

His point being though, get them young!! Get your son out to Salthill Devon or Mervue and get them used to it!! Get them used to going to actual football matches to support a team! And then let them take it from there themselves. If they just prefer to watch it on tv, then fair enough!!

Francie Barrett

monkey9 wrote: »

Get your son out to Salthill Devon or Mervue and get them used to it!!

You do not understand at all. You cannot expect football fans to just support a random Franchise United every-time their predecessor fails.

Helix

does nobody go to watch matches for the sake of going to watch a match any more? do people only go to watch a team they support nowadays?

CSF

This thread was always a car crash waiting to happen.

Helix

CSF wrote: »

This thread was always a car crash waiting to happen.

i think once a few people actually grasped what it was about it was actually a pretty decent thread in the end. certainly wasnt a car crash by any means

Optimalprimerib

I voted no because I was at one LOI game in my life and as I had no affiliation to either team, I did not enjoy it. It was the Sligo shamrock rovers fai cup final where the Sligo keeper cheated them into winning the penalties. For a match to have 2-3 shots on target INCLUDING a penalty shoot out is not a good advertisement.

bohsman

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I voted no because I was at one LOI game in my life and as I had no affiliation to either team, I did not enjoy it. It was the Sligo shamrock rovers fai cup final where the Sligo keeper cheated them into winning the penalties. For a match to have 2-3 shots on target INCLUDING a penalty shoot out is not a good advertisement.

I saw one Premiership game in my life, Stoke played Liverpool, never again will I watch English footie, it was so bad.

celtictiger32

born2bwild wrote: »

Great idea - every league of Ireland ground in the country could be turned into a superstore for English Premier League replica jerseys and accessories.

We don't need a domestic league.

We need Man Utd sovereign rings and Leeds Utd Tricolours.

And we don't need an international team - we can follow England - a real team.

i just pray thats sarcasm

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

If they cut out the red tape re clubs trying to enter the league,my nearest LOI side Tralee Dynamos who play in the A Championship for the past 3 years tried to enter Division 1 this season but the facilities weren't up to the standard,Kerry is a mad soccer county and the progress thats been made is great and badly needs LOI soccer to give the young lads something to aim for,I have gone to a few of the A championship games and if they get into Division 1 il be attending again

have to say i think the criteria should be even stricter and increased every year, thats how itll develop that side of it if the bar is raised every year

event wrote: »

all 36 that have voted ye mean?

and why SHOULD it happen tbh?
why should people be essentially be blackmailed into going to LOI games?

no one is being blackmailed its a hypothetical scenario but if your supposedly a football fan why not go to loi games and experience live football on your doorstep every week

eagle eye wrote: »

You have to have a product that people want. This constant moaning on here that Irish people don't support the LoI is ridiculous.

Its the same as any business, the better the product the more that want it. If you don't have a very good product you will struggle to make a living and probably end up selling your business or going bust. Its up the clubs and the league to attract the public. You cannot expect anybody to buy something they don't like.

yet tens of thousands travel to poland to watch a terrible product

event

celtictiger32 wrote: »

no one is being blackmailed its a hypothetical scenario but if your supposedly a football fan why not go to loi games and experience live football on your doorstep every week

Doorstep?
how do you know how far or close I am from a LOI team.

and I experience live football every week without the LOI, im grand.

shanec1928

John Delaney gets three times the amount of money the fai pay the league winners. that's not right in its self!

Essien

shanec1928 wrote: »

John Delaney gets three times the amount of money the fai pay the league winners. that's not right in its self!

How much do the winners get and how much does he get paid?

Mr.Crinklewood

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I voted no because I was at one LOI game in my life and as I had no affiliation to either team, I did not enjoy it. It was the Sligo shamrock rovers fai cup final where the Sligo keeper cheated them into winning the penalties. For a match to have 2-3 shots on target INCLUDING a penalty shoot out is not a good advertisement.

bohsman wrote: »

I saw one Premiership game in my life, Stoke played Liverpool, never again will I watch English footie, it was so bad.

As a matter of interest, how much did it cost you to watch these games. ( ticket, travel, accommodation, etc. )?

Optimalprimerib, that wasn't actually a League of Ireland game, not being pedantic am saying this as cup finals tend to be tense, cagey affairs. Can't remember the last time I saw a decent cup final.

shanec1928

Essien wrote: »

How much do the winners get and how much does he get paid?

winners gets 100,000 and he gets 400,000

Essien

shanec1928 wrote: »

winners gets 100,000 and he gets 400,000

That's ****ing disgraceful tbh. Based on that, I'd imagine there are a few more in the FAI earning over 100k, not to mention Trapp.

Pawwed Rig

This actually turned into a pretty interesting thread.

Ok I will hold my hands up and say I have never been to a LOI game.

The point I have is that the marketing of the league seems to be way off. There is nothing 'sexy' or exciting about going to the matches. I think this has alot to do with the way the clubs go about their business.

I grew up on the Northside and I suppose my closest club would have been Shelbourne or maybe Bohemians. In all my years going to school in the area and playing for the local club never once did these clubs reach out to get people to come to the matches. You would imagine they could give training sessions to the kids or cheap tickets to get bigger crowds or any amount of other tricks. You know yourselves, once a 13 year old decides that this is his club there will always be a connection. Never did I hear of any of the other kids going to matches or even talking about the league. As aother posters have said get them young

On another note I just checked Elverys Sports website where there are zero LoI jerseys for sale. Moved onto Champion Sports (terribly designed website btw) and found zero LoI jerseys. The only place I actually found them is on the clubs own websites. Now I am not saying the kits are not available but as a casual observer they are much harder to find than a Man U or Liver jersey.

Bohemians - No home gear that I could see. Away gear looks like a cheap t-shirt advertising DHL

Shels
Website worked so that is a plus.
Jersey looks very plain and very similar to GAA jersey design

SR
Very professional looking webpage. Jersey 15-20% more expensive than other clubs.

I am not trying to slag off any club here but they definitely need to have a better image