Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

MagicMarker

Paully D wrote: »

How did Kagawa do today lads? Do you reckon he's nailed on to be in the starting 11 for the vast majority of the season or will he be eased in gradually?

Nailed on imo. Although I reckon there'll be different combos tried out, like with Kagawa as number 10 and Rooney up top, Rooney 10 and Kagawa on the left with Welbeck/Chico up top etc etc...

Paully D

double GG wrote: »

Been away for the last 3 days, anyone care to give me a quick summary?

Rooney has handed in a transfer request, says he only wants to play for Sunderland next season.

allthedoyles

double GG wrote: »

Been away for the last 3 days, anyone care to give me a quick summary?

They bid for RVP and are now waiting for rsvp

MagicMarker

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-rafael-1153114

Manchester United defender Rafael has revealed he has told fellow Brazilian Lucas Moura that he must come to Old Trafford.

United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has made a £27m bid for the 19-year-old Sao Paulo star but his Brazilian club insist they want £32m.

Rafael when asked after Brazil’s 2-0 win over Great Britain whether attacking midfielder Lucas, who also played in the game, was excited at the prospect of joining United, he replied: “Yes, yes!”

He added: “And yes, I have told Lucas he should come to Manchester United - of course.

“If you saw the way we played at Middlesbrough you will know Brazilian players can play well in England! We enjoyed the game, but we just enjoy playing.

Copper_pipe

MagicMarker wrote: »

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-rafael-1153114

Good Lad

Pro. F

DM-ICE wrote: »

Pro F.

do you think United's lack of movement in last seasons Rigid formation was a factor in Carrick not finding space?

Yes Carrick struggled under pressure, I think a big part of that was he had no team mates open for a pass.

In a two man midfield it is hard to deal with teams playing three and four players in a central area. At first he has little chance of finding his central midfield partner as he is outnumbered. He can't go to the right if Valencia is playing, all he does is go up and down in a straight line.

I think United's formation last season made it easy for the opposition to cut off most of his options.

We used the same formation and other players (defenders, wingers, forwards) when Cleverley and Anderson were playing together early in the season and the passing and movement from the team as a whole was excellent. Lots of people were talking about it as a change in style, but I believed it was only because of the change of having two good ball players in the centre instead of one. As soon as Clev got injured and Carrick and Fletch started coming back into the team that excellent passing and movement died. So I think I was right about it being down to the players in CM rather than formation or style of the whole team.

I know Scholes isn't as mobile as either Anderson or Clev, so Carrick had to deal with that. But Scholes is still excellent at keeping and using the ball in tight positions, but that still wasn't enough for Carrick.

You talk about a lack of movement from the team, but I think that is very wrong. Rooney's movement is unbelievable, he is one of the best forwards in the world for always making himself available for a pass. Welbeck is also very good showing for the ball outside the box (although imo he doesn't yet find space often enough inside the box). Valencia is very predictable it's true, but Nani and Young are great for moving and linking up play. Evra shows for the ball a lot as well.

I would say (and have said before) that the reason Carrick doesn't have people to pass to is because he can't do what a central midfielder is supposed to do, and that is to lose his marker. He is normally only looking up to start creating when he has received the ball in space. But by virtue of the fact that he has received the ball in space, it means that the opposition are marking up more on the rest of the team. Proper CMs receive the ball when the opposition are trying to close them down, lose their markers and so take them out of the game and therefore open up the field and have better options to pass to further forward.

I don't think your idea of playing a five man midfield will change anything with Carrick. He has played in a five man midfield plenty of times before and the problems in his game have still been the same. Rooney's movement and showing for the ball when playing behind the centre forward is as good or better than any other ACM in the world I would say. Even if other players are considered attacking midfielders and Rooney is considered a supporting striker in that position, I would still say that Rooney's movement and showing for the ball is better. Kagawa will probably improve things, but that is because he is a better dribbler and passer than Rooney. So he will make more out of what he is given from midfield. But Carrick won't play any better.

Samich

I think the stories of the Lucas bid are true tbh.

Professional Griefer

Hopefully, he looks amazing. The speed off him is insane, thought he played quite well again team BG the last day, given the amount of time he got.

Samich

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Hopefully, he looks amazing. The speed off him is insane, thought he played quite well again team BG the last day, given the amount of time he got.

Yeah, I thought he looked better than Neymar. Neymar didn't look good at all at all imo.

Professional Griefer

I agree, but only because Neymar was way too flashy. He beat Cleverly on the touchline with a nice bit of skill, then he tried to make a fool of him by doing some stupid thing and putting it through Clevs legs but he failed and lost possesion.

Need to watch the rest of their games and see if he plays. Would love to see him come to us.

OctavarIan

Paully D wrote: »

How did Kagawa do today lads? Do you reckon he's nailed on to be in the starting 11 for the vast majority of the season or will he be eased in gradually?

He did pretty good overall. Himself and Valencia were Utd's best players. Tidy passing, kept possession well around the edge of the box with some clever one-twos and dribbling and didn't look like a guy who was playing in his first game for Utd without knowing any English. He should have scored though, missed a header from 6-7 yards out but got into the position which is encouraging I guess. Nailed on starter imo, no need to ease him in.

kryogen

Neymar, regardless of how he performed the other night (I didnt get to watch it all) is a great player, he really is. He has something special about him and I cant wait to see him get tested in the European leagues, may not be till after the WC though.

Lucas, while I would love him, I just cant see how it happens

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

Neymar, regardless of how he performed the other night (I didnt get to watch it all) is a great player, he really is. He has something special about him and I cant wait to see him get tested in the European leagues, may not be till after the WC though.

Lucas, while I would love him, I just cant see how it happens

Why not? We were after Hazard with only a few million less.

kryogen

Thought most of the lads played well today, Blackett was a lot more comfortable, Vermilj was very good again, Wootton too, had a great chance to score also, Ando looked overweight but was alright I guess, Scholes had some poor passing but you expect that with age and rustiness.

Valencia was good I thin, Kagawa was the stand out performer for me in the team, Amos was good in what he had to do, couldnt do a thing for the goal, Chico was not great but he never will excel as a lone striker imo, Powell didnt look fit when hecame on but still performed ok

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

Why not? We were after Hazard with only a few million less.

tbf I have detailed why not imo a few times at this stage and I have no inclination to do so again at this hour

Just watching some ****e Ecuadorian teams at the mo and was bored so checked in here

sReq | uTeK

any links to games.

tried to register on liveonline but get a 404 error.

kryogen

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

any links to games.

tried to register on liveonline but get a 404 error.

The games that are on now?

Professional Griefer

kryogen wrote: »

Neymar, regardless of how he performed the other night (I didnt get to watch it all) is a great player, he really is. He has something special about him and I cant wait to see him get tested in the European leagues, may not be till after the WC though.

Lucas, while I would love him, I just cant see how it happens

Neymar is fantastic. He is less than a year older than me and he has already scored over 100 goals in club football.

sReq | uTeK

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Neymar is fantastic. He is less than a year older than me and he has already scored over 100 goals in club football.

youve obviously scored 99.

Kylo Ren

Paully D wrote: »

How did Kagawa do today lads? Do you reckon he's nailed on to be in the starting 11 for the vast majority of the season or will he be eased in gradually?

Don't answer this lads. Paully is just here for his Fantasy Football information!

Owen_S

kryogen wrote: »

Thought most of the lads played well today, Blackett was a lot more comfortable, Vermilj was very good again, Wootton too, had a great chance to score also, Ando looked overweight but was alright I guess, Scholes had some poor passing but you expect that with age and rustiness.

Valencia was good I thin, Kagawa was the stand out performer for me in the team, Amos was good in what he had to do, couldnt do a thing for the goal, Chico was not great but he never will excel as a lone striker imo, Powell didnt look fit when hecame on but still performed ok

For the most part I agree, but I thought Anderson was poor - drifted in from the left far too much. Vermilj got into some great positions, just lacked composure at times, but it was a promising performance.

Kagawa was excellent, but he could do even better with Rooney/Welbeck to link up with instead of Chicharito.

Giggsy11

Ferguson wrote:

‘There is a borderline in terms of what you would think is a good signing for United,’ said Ferguson. ‘I see some values on players, like Hazard for instance. To me it was a lot of money. He’s a good player, but £34m?

‘It’s all about what you think is value for a player. I am not envious of those deals at all. We placed a value on Hazard which was well below what they were talking about. So if it doesn’t work, well we’re not worried about that. We think we’ve got good value in Kagawa.

Does that mean we didn't match the Chelsea bid, so we were never in contention?

Link for full interview:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2176993/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-defends-Manchester-United-owners-The-Glazer-family.html#ixzz21ITzWMic

kryogen

Seems to be alright

Pro. F

And if Fergie didn' think Hazaard was worth £34m it's hard to believe that he bid €27m, or whatever the papers were claiming, on a young Brazilian playing in his home league.

kryogen

I particularly enjoyed this part, he never stops trollin!

I think the problem is they [the Glazers] are not publicists. They don’t go out of their way to seek good publicity. They are quite happy to stay in the background. Roman Abramovich is the same.’

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

And if Fergie didn' think Hazaard was worth £34m it's hard to believe that he bid €27m, or whatever the papers were claiming, on a young Brazilian playing in his home league.

Yeah but he is not just talking about transfer fee, it is about wages and most importantly agent fee.

SAF wrote:

‘What we’re finding anyway, the climate for buying these top players — not just the transfer fees, [but] the salaries, agent’s fees — is just getting ridiculous now. In the Hazard deal, Chelsea paid the agent £6m. The Nasri situation was the same.

Yeah I agree with what you said, really hard to believe we bid €35m for Lucas.

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

I particularly enjoyed this part, he never stops trollin!

I thought he was praising Roman?

Or is it a dig at City who gives few interviews? (City's Khaldoon Al Mubarak)

kryogen

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I thought he was praising Roman?

Or is it a dig at City who gives few interviews? (City's Khaldoon Al Mubarak)

It was meant as praise, and in the way he meant it he is correct, RA doesn't do pr, doesn't care about that stuff, but in the way I choose to read it, there is no way RA stays in the background at Chelsea!

He is very hands on

Glazers seem to be very hands off on footballing matters, quite the opposite!

Copper_pipe

On phone, but there a few links here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/18942664

kryogen

Clicked on a link but got a 404 message, do you have an idea why they are saying EVP would prefer to move to United over City or Juventus?

Taking off the fan goggles I can't see why myself? City provide him with more money and the chance to win trophies too, Juve provide a completely new challenge, good money and the chance to win trophies, why do United stand out for him?

kryogen

He said Chelsea paid 6million to the agent for Hazard, absolutely ridiculous

Lord TSC

kryogen wrote: »

Clicked on a link but got a 404 message, do you have an idea why they are saying EVP would prefer to move to United over City or Juventus?

Taking off the fan goggles I can't see why myself? City provide him with more money and the chance to win trophies too, Juve provide a completely new challenge, good money and the chance to win trophies, why do United stand out for him?

Take out the comparison to City's wages and United's wages are still phenomenal. As for potential to win trophies, United have as much chance as City, and if anything, we've proven that big money spenders come and go, but United are always challenging and winning trophies. Add to that the fact that chances are next summer, City will probably buy more top guys and he's just one of many there, while at United he could become a club legend and hero. There's a happy middle between fan goggles and "omg the end of the world is nigh" view other fans take...

I wonder how come Chelsea haven't been linked in with this story though, given they've lost Drogba and Hulk talks have stalled. Would have thought the media would have been lobbing them in with all the other interested clubs as well....

kryogen

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Take out the comparison to City's wages and United's wages are still phenomenal. As for potential to win trophies, United have as much chance as City, and if anything, we've proven that big money spenders come and go, but United are always challenging and winning trophies. Add to that the fact that chances are next summer, City will probably buy more top guys and he's just one of many there, while at United he could become a club legend and hero. There's a happy middle between fan goggles and "omg the end of the world is nigh" view other fans take...

I wonder how come Chelsea haven't been linked in with this story though, given they've lost Drogba and Hulk talks have stalled. Would have thought the media would have been lobbing them in with all the other interested clubs as well....

I don't have a omg the end of the world is nigh view is you are including me in that

I simply don't understand what would make United more attractive to him then city or Juve, I don't see what is offered by United that isn't at City or Juve, that's all. I was asking the poster was there anything said about why United are supposedly his preference or is it just media ****e as it more then likely is.

Sgt Pepper 64

kryogen wrote: »

He said Chelsea paid 6million to the agent for Hazard, absolutely ridiculous

We'll see next season, but I'm pretty sure the lad is well worth it.
And like I said before, all 3 clubs wanted him, its just he choose Chelsea for some personal reason. It wasnt money, lets face it, with the sort of figures we are talking about, I cant see it being about a couple of million here and there. He and his agent would have been well rewarded where ever he went.

Fergie is well known for smoke screen and making excuses when things dont go his way, so I wouldnt expect him to say "He just chose someone else", but I do expect him to make some negative remark about why he didnt join Utd.

Plus re the Roman remark - errrr Roman SO interferes in team affairs . Look at Alex's recent comments, Roman would always be in the dressing room asking why they hadnt performed.
As for Chelsea transfers, Roman has the final say and sometimes the first and only say. The manager has very little say and then only a small percentage. Chelsea transfers are done (like most clubs) by commitee, few clubs would completely trust their manager with such money. (Look at Liverpool, they tried it and now its back to committee)

No one really knows what clubs pay agents or what they pay in transfers

chainsawman

Really hopes United will purchase RVP, Why dont they include Berbatov in a £10 million package.

Sgt Pepper 64

I cant think why any club would take a gamble on RVP at anything over 10 million.
Last season was his best ever, and he could resort to being the normal injury ridden player he has been

Fair play to Arsenal, they know he will never be more wanted, but for me anything over 10 million when there is a lot more talent out there in the 20million + price bracket is beyond me

Chelsea wont go him, because we already have our expensive experiment and are looking to rebuild the squad with younger talent

Sgt Pepper 64

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I cant think why any club would take a gamble on RVP at anything over 10 million.

You drunk? :eek:

Sgt Pepper 64

rarnes1 wrote: »

You drunk? :eek:

Why? Just because I think a player who has just managed his first season playing over 30 games without getting a serious injury and who is in the final year of their contract and who finally managed more than the average of 11 league goals, is a gamble over 10 million?

MagicMarker

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Why? Just because I think a player who has just managed his first season playing over 30 games without getting a serious injury and who is in the final year of their contract and who finally managed more than the average of 11 league goals, is a gamble over 10 million?

Yes.

Sgt Pepper 64

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Why? Just because I think a player who has just managed his first season playing over 30 games without getting a serious injury and who is in the final year of their contract and who finally managed more than the average of 11 league goals, is a gamble over 10 million?

If RVP was available for £11m it would be an amazing piece of business.

Sgt Pepper 64

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes.

What do you think he is worth and can he work with Rooney?

kryogen

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

We'll see next season, but I'm pretty sure the lad is well worth it.
And like I said before, all 3 clubs wanted him, its just he choose Chelsea for some personal reason. It wasnt money, lets face it, with the sort of figures we are talking about, I cant see it being about a couple of million here and there. He and his agent would have been well rewarded where ever he went.

It has been widely reported that both United and City told them to **** off with the agent demands. Chelsea didnt.

Plus re the Roman remark - errrr Roman SO interferes in team affairs . Look at Alex's recent comments, Roman would always be in the dressing room asking why they hadnt performed.
As for Chelsea transfers, Roman has the final say and sometimes the first and only say.

Yeah, its very clear what Fergie was talking about, in fact I have already explained it while also poking fun at it earlier today, he is right, RA doesnt do pr, doesnt give a **** what you think of him. Like the Glazers. Thats quite clearly what Fergie meant. Only a lunatic would say RA stays out of football matters.

No one really knows what clubs pay agents or what they pay in transfers

Here I would have to disagree to a point, considering United were also presented with the same list of demands that Chelsea were I am pretty sure Fergie would know exactly how much the transfer/wage and agent fee was going to be.

Maybe he demanded more from Chelsea because they were the least attractive option and they paid more? We don't know, but you can be sure those involved in the negotiations know

kryogen

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

What do you think he is worth and can he work with Rooney?

Would prefer not to sign him at all but if the club does I would like it to be around the 15million mark, which will not happen, and yes I am sure he could play with Rooney but it would mean shunting Kag out to the left for Rooney to play in the hole behind VP.

Or RVP could play from the left but why would he join a team that will play him there again when he can get a transfer to a team that will play him as the central striker?

Donnielighto

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Why? Just because I think a player who has just managed his first season playing over 30 games without getting a serious injury and who is in the final year of their contract and who finally managed more than the average of 11 league goals, is a gamble over 10 million?

RVP finished with 30 league goals last season and 18 the season before that? He clearly has the ability to command a pretty large fee as the top striker in the premiership. Even taking his injuries into account and the contract situation 10M is an insult.

homerjay2005

This thread seems to be the only place fergie isnt getting lynched at the moment after yesterday. the amount of people going mental is unreal yet the same people would have backed him to the death before he mentioned the glazers. people have short memories, i dont care about his faith in the owners, maybe he is telling the truth, its his tactics, selections and lack of cm signings that ill be miffed with him over.

massive storm in a tea cup and the funny thing is he said exactly the same thing before yet suddenly people are brain washed into thinking he has just commited a horrible crime. even seen one lad who ive been following on twitter for about a year go on a rant and label him a judas.

wheres me jumpa

kryogen wrote: »

Would prefer not to sign him at all but if the club does I would like it to be around the 15million mark, which will not happen

Just seems like a cheeky punt from Fergie. A bargain price RVP would be too good to miss. The price will inevitably rise and I dont see United getting involved in a bidding war for him.

dahat

One must also factor in that when he goes he will get more rest time that he would at Arsenal and less likely to pick up injuries.
He went to the Euro's a knackered player and it showed,he was legless at the end of the season and Wenger said so many times.

Giggsy11

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

We'll see next season, but I'm pretty sure the lad is well worth it.
And like I said before, all 3 clubs wanted him, its just he choose Chelsea for some personal reason. It wasnt money, lets face it, with the sort of figures we are talking about, I cant see it being about a couple of million here and there. He and his agent would have been well rewarded where ever he went.

Lad is worth it? What the ****? ManCity topped the Premier league list of agent fee, do you know how much they paid in a year? 9.6 Million pounds. You know how much Chelsea paid for Hazard agent alone? 6 Million pounds.

Is he worth the extra 6 million you paid? Yes maybe (still a big gamble as the transfer fee and agent fee is close to 40 Million), but what that will do for the rest of your transfers is every half decent player's agent will start commanding hefty agent fee, which is how exactly the ridiculous wages happened. Now it will be common to see teams having to pay big agent fee and I won't be surprised if any team touched 20 Million mark in agent fee alone.

He chose Chelsea not for money? If I was you, I would say the same and back the player. So I won't debate on that

tupac_healy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This thread seems to be the only place fergie isnt getting lynched at the moment after yesterday. the amount of people going mental is unreal yet the same people would have backed him to the death before he mentioned the glazers. people have short memories, i dont care about his faith in the owners, maybe he is telling the truth, its his tactics, selections and lack of cm signings that ill be miffed with him over.

massive storm in a tea cup and the funny thing is he said exactly the same thing before yet suddenly people are brain washed into thinking he has just commited a horrible crime. even seen one lad who ive been following on twitter for about a year go on a rant and label him a judas.

I know this is the transfer thread but I always wondered about these 'anti-glazer' people. Lets just say for arguments sake that they do wipe out the debt, I'm wondering what the big fuss about them will be then or is it JUST the debt they have leveled on the club...

I'm only interested because it stands to reason that within the years they have run the club, they have backed the manager and apparantly the debt is being managed, so I guess I'm asking is what will be the reaction to them from these 'anti-glazer' supporters once the debt is gone?

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This thread seems to be the only place fergie isnt getting lynched at the moment after yesterday. the amount of people going mental is unreal yet the same people would have backed him to the death before he mentioned the glazers. people have short memories, i dont care about his faith in the owners, maybe he is telling the truth, its his tactics, selections and lack of cm signings that ill be miffed with him over.

massive storm in a tea cup and the funny thing is he said exactly the same thing before yet suddenly people are brain washed into thinking he has just commited a horrible crime. even seen one lad who ive been following on twitter for about a year go on a rant and label him a judas.

He has never said anything negative about the Glazers, he has come out in support of them a few times now, why are people getting upset about his comments yesterday? Kinda stupid really, he has always been pro Glazer.

If he was a Judas he was a Judas when he first came out in support of them not now! Ridiculous