Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

You are mixing up open football with effective control and use of possession through good passing and movement from the midfield. The passing and movement from the midfield was of a much lower standard for all those games I mentioned than for the games where Clev and Anderson were in there together.



The key part of it was not the positioning of Cleverley and Anderson, it was that they didn't track runs properly into the defensive third of the pitch. Many times they were in decent positions about 40 yards out from our goal but just let runners go past them. That is because they are not very reliable defensively. Both of them need to be beside a proper defensively reliable CM.

As I have said countless times before, the Cleverley Anderson partnership was flawed because neither of them is defensively reliable and you need at least one defensively reliable CM in there. I have not denied that. The only thing that the Cleverley Anderson partnership proves is that the team can be very slick in possession when there are two CMs in there who are both comfortable on the ball. Not one who is comfortable on the ball and one of Fletcher or Carrick who are not. That slickness dried up as soon as Cleverley/Anderson changed to two from Anderson/Fletch/Carrick/Giggs/Scholes. That's why I say we should buy a defensive CM who is of a better standard on the ball.

Cleverley was clearly left out of the team because he had had some sort of falling out with Fergie. Or did Fergie leave our only other fit, properly skilled creative central midfielder on the bench when we were chasing the game against Wigan and City and play on with the very fatigued Scholes and the very fatigued and not that good Giggs because they were better defensively?

Hang on, your going over another topic here - i'm not trying to debate what should be done now, I'm commenting on last season alone.

Its also not talking about about Anderson and Cleverley or what Anderson and Carrick or what any combination of players could or could not do.

I am specifically saying that Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson purposely changed the tactics of the side and abandoned the slick play your talking about. He went with a solid midfield and allowed the wingers, forwards take on the creativity. It wasn't just the personnel that changed, it was a change made by the manager. Of course the players were part of that change but the manager instigated it on purpose.

Things like Playing Jones in midfield against Liverpool for example.

Samich

How do people explain Utd constantly challenging for the title despite the terrible midfield?

Jimmy Iovine

Samich wrote: »

How do people explain Utd constantly challenging for the title despite the terrible midfield?

One of a number of reasons: the overall poor quality of the league, the Fergie-factor, the quality of the defence and/or the quality of the attack.

Pro. F

DM-ICE wrote: »

Hang on, your going over another topic here.

I am not talking about Anderson and Cleverley or what Anderson and Carrick or what any combination of players could or could not do.

I am specifically saying Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson purposely changed the tactics of the side and abandoned the slick play your talking about. He went with a solid midfield and allowed the wingers, forwards take on the creativity. It wasn't just the personnel that changed, it was a change made by the manager. Of course the players were part of that change but the manager instigated it on purpose.

Things like Playing Jones in midfield against Liverpool for example.

You said yourself that during the game against Basel and the bit Carrick played against Chelsea the team were still open. The loss of the slick passing and moving came before the change in tactics.

And it still remains the case that United hadn't moved the ball around that well for years before the Cleverley Anderson thing happened. Even when games were being chased.

Samich

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

My only fear about signing Lucas is I know how some football fans are absolute muppets and will expect him to go straight into the team and be one of the best players in the league immediately. If he takes time to adapt (which he almost certainly will) there will be idiots calling him a flop.

Lucas Moura is 19, should we sign him then he will be a project that could result in us having a proper world beater in a few years. That's why I don't think Nani will be sold.

God I hate this kinda talk. I know what your response will be too :rolleyes:

Your opinion is just as useful as any drunk out on the town on a Saturday night.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

So, no takers for Casemiro then?

Since we all love our youtube vids on here, in case ye have no idea who I am talking about, here is his

Serious potential there to be a quality central midfield player who can do everything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU_sGf3vTy0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nabcv-mLPn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II4XWNUXQe4

Pro. F

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

One of a number of reasons: the overall poor quality of the league, the Fergie-factor, the quality of the defence and/or the quality of the attack.

Add to that, the end-to-end style of play that goes on in England is more forgiving on a poor midfield. English teams tend to defend deep and attack as quickly as they can, so there is usually lots of space in midfield for players like Carrick to spray their passes about in.

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

God I hate this kinda talk. I know what your response will be too :rolleyes:

Your opinion is just as useful as any drunk out on the town on a Saturday night.

Whats wrong with what he said? If Lucas is bought, plenty of people will expect him to come in and be a beast right from the off, he is not the finished article and will need time and patience to develop.

There will be idiots who would hop on him straight away, same as there was a bunch of idiots who jumped on De Geas back straight away

OctavarIan

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

My only fear about signing Lucas is I know how some football fans are absolute muppets and will expect him to go straight into the team and be one of the best players in the league immediately. If he takes time to adapt (which he almost certainly will) there will be idiots calling him a flop.

Or else he'll have a few decent games and become the second coming of Christ á la Jones and Cleverly :pac:

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

Whats wrong with what he said? If Lucas is bought, plenty of people will expect him to come in and be a beast right from the off, he is not the finished article and will need time and patience to develop.

There will be idiots who would hop on him straight away, same as there was a bunch of idiots who jumped on De Geas back straight away

The notion of being so knowledgeable of world football and being better than other football fans.

Also why do you call them idiots? No one wants to see players making howlers, just because he's a new player means he shouldn't get criticised?

Al Capwned

Samich - genuine question.

Are there two people using your account? Your posting style varies so much, it's hard to believe it's from one person.

Samich

alproctor wrote: »

Samich - genuine question.

Are there two people using your account? Your posting style varies so much, it's hard to believe it's from one person.

No, I do talk rubbish though. It happens in phases Ok, I'll stop with the nonsense talk.

The rubbish expands exponentially

Mitch Connor

kryogen wrote: »

Whats wrong with what he said? If Lucas is bought, plenty of people will expect him to come in and be a beast right from the off, he is not the finished article and will need time and patience to develop.

There will be idiots who would hop on him straight away, same as there was a bunch of idiots who jumped on De Geas back straight away

Yeah - people will be expecting the player United just spend 30+million on to hit the ground running.

At that price, the player shouldn't be a Powell-esque project - we should be getting a player ready for the big time from day one.

He will require nurturing and patience, but the reality is the pricetag will make it hard for him to be given it.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

Snip

Actually - removing last post. I don't even think we are talking about the same thing at this stage!

Mikeyt086

Samich wrote: »

God I hate this kinda talk. I know what your response will be too :rolleyes:

Your opinion is just as useful as any drunk out on the town on a Saturday night.

You might well hate that talk, but it doesn't mean it isnt true. Some football fans ARE absolute muppets. If you expect Lucas Moura to come into the side straight away and be a beast, then have a go at him if he doesn't then you are a muppet. How can you not give a 19 year old kid time?

By the way, I'm going to sound like a dick here, but with what you have said in the thread today, particularly about Sergio Busquets and "Midfield don't win games" you have embarrassed yourself, you will argue that you have not, but that is to be expected as your stubbornness knows no limits, you have to learn when to just let something go, because at the moment when you get into a discussion you won't listen to anyone and it goes on for 10+ pages.

EDIT: with your post a few above this you have acknowledged that, fair enough.

I wasn't trying to come off as a know it all, but I would like to think that having dedicated a stupid amount of my life to passionately supporting football that I could offer more of an incisive opinion than a random drunk on a Saturday night. Thanks for that though.

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah - people will be expecting the player United just spend 30+million on to hit the ground running.

At that price, the player shouldn't be a Powell-esque project - we should be getting a player ready for the big time from day one.

He will require nurturing and patience, but the reality is the pricetag will make it hard for him to be given it.

The price tag is nothing to do with him, he is not setting it.

I take your point on board, if the price tag is as big as is being reported it will be hard to keep people off his back if he doesnt hit the ground running. Just because it is the reality of the situation doesnt make it any better though.

The club could go and spend the 30mil on an established player, the finished article. But if it spends it on Lucas based on what he could become that is hardly something that should be held against him.

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

The notion of being so knowledgeable of world football and being better than other football fans.

Also why do you call them idiots? No one wants to see players making howlers, just because he's a new player means he shouldn't get criticised?

What was there about him being so knowledgable about world football and that in his post? Didnt see it

I call the people who wrote De Gea off after his first few weeks at the club idiots because thats what they were/are. Idiots. Criticising a player is very different, dont pretend its the same thing.

Mikeyt086

In other news lads I've got a Kagawa sig going if anybody wants it ahead of the new season. Poster must have 25 or more posts in the thread (I think thats fair?).

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

What was there about him being so knowledgable about world football and that in his post? Didnt see it

I call the people who wrote De Gea off after his first few weeks at the club idiots because thats what they were/are. Idiots. Criticising a player is very different, dont pretend its the same thing.

Jeez I've admitted I talk ****e from time to time. Ok.

Lord TSC

When's the next game anyway?

Liam O

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

In other news lads I've got a Kagawa sig going if anybody wants it ahead of the new season. Poster must have 25 or more posts in the thread (I think thats fair?).

was going to ask you for one anyway I'll take it.

FutureGuy

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

In other news lads I've got a Kagawa sig going if anybody wants it ahead of the new season. Poster must have 25 or more posts in the thread (I think thats fair?).

Me!!! Please!

Pro. F

<Snip>
DM's post is gone now. Never mind.

Al Capwned

Yeah think it's about time i got a sig sorted Mikey - be great ta!

davehey79

Finished 1 nil to united reserves v Longford town couple of thousand at it. Good game all round by both teams. Was very impressed by Daehli, King and McGinty. Was my first time seeing the reserves play a full game (don't have mutv) but they played some lovely pass and go plays and seem very well prepared considering their ages

yabadabado

kryogen wrote: »

I call the people who wrote De Gea off after his first few weeks at the club idiots because thats what they were/are. Idiots. Criticising a player is very different, dont pretend its the same thing.

Spot on ,the number of people that wrote him off after a handful of games was unbelieveable.Every player needs time to settle in at a new club/country.When a big fee is involved it seems like some people are nearly hoping they fail.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

<Snip>
DM's post is gone now. Never mind.

Sorry!

Pro. F

DM-ICE wrote: »

Sorry!

Don't worry about it

Probably a good time to leave the discussion anyway.

Mikeyt086

Liam O wrote: »

was going to ask you for one anyway I'll take it.

Liam O was in first, here you go bud:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/mikeyt086/LiamKag.jpg

FutureGuy wrote: »

Me!!! Please!

Don't want to leave you empty handed then, I have a Chicharito one made if you would like that? Unless it's an asian fettish, I could do a Shinji one if you only wanted to have him below your posts.

alproctor wrote: »

Yeah think it's about time i got a sig sorted Mikey - be great ta!

3rd in line but your lucky I have **** all to do tonight, name a player there.

Al Capwned

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

3rd in line but your lucky I have **** all to do tonight, name a player there.

Gotta be de Gea, keepers union and all that!

Mikeyt086

alproctor wrote: »

Gotta be de Gea, keepers union and all that!

Good man, just so happens I have a great pic I found a few weeks ago, ill get cracking on it in a bit.

Jimmy Iovine

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Good man, just so happens I have a great pic I found a few weeks ago, ill get cracking on it in a bit.

If you've got a bit of time would I be able to get a Bebe one? After his MOTM performance the other night I think it's only fair that he's recognised on this forum.

Mikeyt086

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

If you've got a bit of time would I be able to get a Bebe one? After his MOTM performance the other night I think it's only fair that he's recognised on this forum.

It will have to be hilarious, so leave that with me for a while.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah - people will be expecting the player United just spend 30+million on to hit the ground running.

At that price, the player shouldn't be a Powell-esque project - we should be getting a player ready for the big time from day one.

He will require nurturing and patience, but the reality is the pricetag will make it hard for him to be given it.

What would you (or anyone reading this) think is a reasonable amount of time within which to expect to see him making a regular and good contribution?

I think the price tag is something that can be criticised if it turns out that he isn't ready to go within a reasonable length of time. What I mean is, say he gets 10 starts, more or less consecutively, and he is still having trouble then I would start to ask questions of the price tag.

For such a big price as is being talked about, I wouldn't expect a player who would need a whole season to get going. If he's young and not ready to be making an impact this season, then we shouldn't be spending massive money on him imo. Ronaldo had a heap of talent, but he could have gone either way, like loads of kids do, so he was bought for £12m, that's reasonable. £25m+ for a player - I would be expecting them to be looking very good within the season.

If he comes in for big money and doesn't get regular games at any stage in the season then I would question the price paid by Fergie more than the player's chances of coming good long term.

Jimmy Iovine

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

It will have to be hilarious, so leave that with me for a while.

Ha brilliant. I'm looking forward to it.

Liam O

unreal Mikey cheers

Pj!

<tabloid gossip>


Daily Mail and the Mirror both say that Mancini feels they are losing out in the fight to land Van Persie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2177921/Robin-van-Persie-join-Manchester-City--Roberto-Mancini.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/robin-van-persie-transfer-roberto-1156503



</tabloid gossip>

Donnielighto

kryogen wrote: »

Whats wrong with what he said? If Lucas is bought, plenty of people will expect him to come in and be a beast right from the off, he is not the finished article and will need time and patience to develop.

There will be idiots who would hop on him straight away, same as there was a bunch of idiots who jumped on De Geas back straight away

Where is bateman btw? banned?

yabadabado

Donnielighto wrote: »

Where is bateman btw? banned?

jaysus don't mention his name or he will probably reappear.

Pro. F

Donnielighto wrote: »

Where is bateman btw? banned?

Yep, think so.

Mikeyt086

FutureGuy wrote: »

Me!!! Please!

Went ahead and made you a Kagawa one anyway:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/mikeyt086/FutureKag.jpg

I hope that actually says Shinji Kagawa in Japanese and someone didn't edit the Wiki page as a joke! :pac: Hope you like it.

And Copper_pipe PM'd me asking for a Chich sig and since I didn't give it to FutureGuy, I had this ready to go:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/mikeyt086/CopperChich.jpg

That pose by Chicharito, found myself randomly watching a Nike advert in Spanish, saw that, and HAD to do a screen grab and use the image in a sig.

TheTownie

yabadabado wrote: »

jaysus don't mention his name or he will probably reappear.

Don't worry. That only happens if you say his name three times in a row.

Al Capwned

TheTownie wrote: »

Don't worry. That only happens if you say it three times in a row.

And he'll appear behind you, tap you on the shoulder, saying he hopes he's wrong but he thinks de Gea will be ****e....

Mikeyt086

alproctor wrote: »

Gotta be de Gea, keepers union and all that!

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/mikeyt086/AlDeGea.jpg

There you are sir.

Al Capwned

That's brilliant Mikey.

Ta v much!

TheTownie

Deja vu from last night! :pac:

Reports that Sao Paulo accepted a £31m bid from #MUFC for Lucas Moura would jive with earlier talk that Juvenal Juvencio had changed mind.

All of the SPFC fan sites are reporting that SPFC have accepted a 99mil reais (33mil quid) offer from ManU for Lucas!!

@Chris_Elastico @Luxinho77 Yes, exactly, The offer hasn't been made yet, will be eventually and SPFC will probably accept it.

Pj!

I think Moura is basically signed.
Just need to finish the negotiations.

Samich

Pj! wrote: »

I think Moura is basically signed.
Just need to finish the negotiations.

"The money is mine
Just didn't want to fill out the forms" :pac:

Mikeyt086

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Ha brilliant. I'm looking forward to it.

Got it done. What Bebe is to me:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/mikeyt086/JimBebe.jpg

Jimmy Iovine

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Got it done. What Bebe is to me:

Ha ha excellent. I reckon I'll end up posting every 5 seconds on different threads just to try it out and see what it looks like :P.