Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

DM_7

I wish Tunni was a year older and had two seasons of loan time under his belt. I think this season might be a bit soon for him.

The player he has the potential to be is really needed at United now.

grames_bond

AAAAaaaanyhooooo!

today was the first game i got to watch, and Wooton didn't play so I haven't had a chance to see him.

Anyone shed some light on how he has gotten on thus far?

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

Quote me please.

This post and this post would be two fine examples to start with.

Mitch Connor

G.K. wrote: »

Agreed, with no Fletcher (It seems) or Park there's more of a gap in the squad for someone in the energetic mould.

i do wonder if it might be a year too soon for him though.

While I do think there is a potential role for him, and I would have down as having a very good chance of still being at United (and contributing) in a few years time, I just wonder if it is too soon for him.

He had a good time in the championship last season, certainly showing his potential, but it might be he needs to follow Cleverleys progression - I could see the plan being to loan him out to a high end Championship side or low end premiership side and see how he gets on again.

If he was to stay at United for the season the worry would be, and it is the same with Petrucci, that it would mainly be reserve team football and his progress could stagnate.

I obviously moan a lot about the midfield at United, and Tunnicliffe and Petruci are the types of players I think we need, I just don't know if they are developed enough to start being the solution now.

Pudsy33

Samich, do you genuinely believe Bateman wasn't trolling? He was proven wrong time and time again, yet persisted with the same argument time and time again.

Samich

Pro. F wrote: »

That's all you see because that is all you want to see.


It is true that that can be said about any player and if followed to it's logical conclusion would make any discussion of Fergie's decisions pointless.



The fact that Bateman acknowledged one counter argument one time, does not change the fact that he ignored most of them most of the time.

It was also pointed out to Bateman that DDG earned more points than he cost us last year, so no that is not true.

1. No that's all I see.

2. It was a point in favour of Carrick. You just knew he was right and couldn't prove him wrong.

3. Same could be said about any player :rolleyes: You could say Giggs won us lots of points too. Yet he's been criticised lots on here. If you're going down that route.

Samich

Pro. F wrote: »

This post and this post would be two fine examples to start with.

So no one said Utd were playing great football with Cleverley and Anderson in midfield?

Mitch Connor

grames_bond wrote: »

AAAAaaaanyhooooo!

today was the first game i got to watch, and Wooton didn't play so I haven't had a chance to see him.

Anyone shed some light on how he has gotten on thus far?

Played his normal game - tidy/simple ball use, while being strong defensively. It is very hard to judge him based on the games he played - two games in which he didn't have much to do defensively, though he did what was asked of him well enough.

Samich

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Samich, do you genuinely believe Bateman wasn't trolling? He was proven wrong time and time again, yet persisted with the same argument time and time again.

What do you mean proven time and time again? De Gea did lose us points, and we would have won the league if he didn't make them mistakes.

Simply saying he won us more points than he lost is poor. If we had a goalie who made the same saves as DDG and didn't make the mistakes we'd be champs.

Also I didn't agree with Bateman. Just felt his opinion was backed up and was bullied by posters like Nelson and Jimbo.

Pudsy33

Samich wrote: »

What do you mean proven time and time again? De Gea did lose us points, and we would have won the league if he didn't make them mistakes.

Simply saying he won us more points than he lost is poor. If we had a goalie who made the same saves as DDG and didn't make the mistakes we'd be champs.

Also I didn't agree with Bateman. Just felt his opinion was backed up and was bullied by posters like Nelson and Jimbo.

Everyone can agree he cost us points, that wasn't the issue. The issue was the whole "he'll be sold by next season", or "He'll never make it" crap he persisted with, even when De Gea was playing well. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but should be man enough to admit when they're wrong. His first post back in the forum summed it all up really.

Mitch Connor

Samich wrote: »

What do you mean proven time and time again? De Gea did lose us points, and we would have won the league if he didn't make them mistakes.

Simply saying he won us more points than he lost is poor. If we had a goalie who made the same saves as DDG and didn't make the mistakes we'd be champs.

Also I didn't agree with Bateman. Just felt his opinion was backed up and was bullied by posters like Nelson and Jimbo.

You can say that about MANY players.

Evra puts in the simply header vs Everton we likely win the league.

Ref doesn't give a pathetic penalty to Newcastle, we likely win the league.

De Gea made mistakes, yes, no one will deny that.

Saying consistently, continually and as the main point of every single post you make that De Gea is ****, the worst signing United have ever made and should be shipped out as soon as possible with Craig Gordon and Shay Given supplied as the two top targets we should have... IS TROLLING.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i do wonder if it might be a year too soon for him though.

While I do think there is a potential role for him, and I would have down as having a very good chance of still being at United (and contributing) in a few years time, I just wonder if it is too soon for him.

He had a good time in the championship last season, certainly showing his potential, but it might be he needs to follow Cleverleys progression - I could see the plan being to loan him out to a high end Championship side or low end premiership side and see how he gets on again.

If he was to stay at United for the season the worry would be, and it is the same with Petrucci, that it would mainly be reserve team football and his progress could stagnate.

I obviously moan a lot about the midfield at United, and Tunnicliffe and Petruci are the types of players I think we need, I just don't know if they are developed enough to start being the solution now.

The thing about a loan move to a lower PL club is that there is a risk the player will be fúcked around (like being played out of position or not at all) or that the manager who brought him in will get the sack. But then it is hard to get enough games for them when they stay at United during this period of their development. It seems to be a bit of a nightmare trying to help players make the final step up.

Samich

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You can say that about MANY players.

Evra puts in the simply header vs Everton we likely win the league.

Ref doesn't give a pathetic penalty to Newcastle, we likely win the league.

De Gea made mistakes, yes, no one will deny that.

Saying consistently, continually and as the main point of every single post you make that De Gea is ****, the worst signing United have ever made and should be shipped out as soon as possible with Craig Gordon and Shay Given supplied as the two top targets we should have... IS TROLLING.

Reminds me of a certain poster on about Carrick and his "isn't able pass under pressure" argument.

Anyways not gonna post in here again. Can't take criticism at all.

MagicMarker

Samich wrote: »

Anyways not gonna post in here again.

Promise?

G.K.

Norwich would have been the perfect place for Tunni imho, the problem is that they already have millions of midfielders.

Al Capwned

I asked this yesterday:

alproctor wrote: »

Samich - genuine question.

Are there two people using your account? Your posting style varies so much, it's hard to believe it's from one person.

And got this reply....

Samich wrote: »

No, I do talk rubbish though. It happens in phases Ok, I'll stop with the nonsense talk.

The rubbish expands exponentially

Talk about your post that made most sense - Seriously Samich, just give it a rest man - You are digging a hole here and starting to sound dangerously like the next incarnation of one S. Bateman.

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

So no one said Utd were playing great football with Cleverley and Anderson in midfield?

This is you again oversimplifying. Most people were saying that United were great in possession with Cleverley and Anderson in midfield. But most people were also saying that we were too open when we didn't have the ball. You are pretending that people never acknowledged that issue, even though they did. You are oversimplifying what people said and you are doing it to suit your own argument.

Pudsy33

Samich wrote: »

Reminds me of a certain poster on about Carrick and his "isn't able pass under pressure" argument.

Anyways not gonna post in here again. Can't take criticism at all.

There is a big difference between criticizing a player like this, and saying we should ship him out as he is the worst player in our history.

For the record I'm a Carrick fan, but Pro F's criticism isn't trolling or unreasonable.

Mitch Connor

G.K. wrote: »

Norwich would have been the perfect place for Tunni imho, the problem is that they already have millions of midfielders.

Wigan could be looking for a Tunnicliffe type player with Diame having left for West Ham, they also have a good record of actually giving loan players a chance.

Could be an option there. Not sure who else.

Samich

Samich wrote: »

Quote me please.

Alright, I'm on mobile so this a is a pain, but worth doing.

However, if you feel like asking people for quotes, don't get so lazy when you are asked for them yourself.

Like this:

Samich wrote: »

You said he was a useless footballer, I'll find the post when I can be bothered looking for it.

Anyways, now to address your request.

G.K. wrote: »

You're oversimplifying things. People weren't happy at how open United were, which explains them looking for a more defensively solid player than the likes of Ando/Clev who is as capable as them in passing matters. Carrick isn't up to that because he doesn't pass well enough under pressure.

Hence people looking for players along the lines of Martinez, M'Vila, Busquets, Song, Lucas, Banega etc...

Here you respond to G.K's post where he explains the thought behind his point, showing how it wasn't as simple as you put it. Even at this point already telling you that you were oversimplifying things, you're response was...

Samich wrote: »

Maybe, but they were creaming themselves over the football we played.

You didn't counter his argument, or even really properly respond to it. You posted a over simple nonsensical comment in reply to it. It didn't address any points he made. When somebody takes the time to make a point regardless of how wrong you might think it is or how wrong it might actually be, it's really annoying to see someone respond to it, dismissing it, by posting a lazy one or two line post.

Sometimes it's done in jest, other times it's done the way you do it, disrespectfully. I'm not saying you're the only one doing it, or that it hasn't been done to you, but hey, you asked for examples of you oversimplifying things didn't you?

Pro. F wrote: »

I understand that it could be looked at as ''useless.'' But I responded to Samich directly two or three times in recent days to explain what I think about Carrick is not as simple as him being ''useless''. Samich ignored those explanations and persisted with claiming that I called Carrick useless. This is even more perverse when you consider how much text I have written about my opinion on Carrick on here. I think it is a deliberate misunderstanding from Samich to help support his argument that some posters can get away with saying anything. And if you read his posts he has these convenient for his argument misunderstandings very regularly.

Here Pro F talks about how you are constantly referencing him without showing us where you got the idea that "he called him useless" from. You keep doing it then when asked to find the quote, you wouldn't bother your árse.

Samich wrote: »

Doesn't change my point though as in he still thinks Carrick isn't any good.

Case in point, over simplification of one mans point, regardless of how wrong you think it is, you oversimplified it so much, you got it wrong. Multiple times.

Samich wrote: »

Calling a player who has played 180 times for Utd a useless footballer, and then people giving out about Rooney after some poor performances and calling it harsh is hypocritical.

Samich wrote: »

You say some Utd fans are harsh on Rooney, who is supposedly one of the best players in the world on 200k a week, yet you have no problem calling Carrick a useless midfielder

Samich wrote: »

I seem to recall him describing Carrick as a useless footballer, or something like that. Playing for Spurs, getting a big money move to Man Utd and inheriting the infamous no.16 and still being a starter shows how useless he really is.

You do this to yourself Samich.

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

1. No that's all I see.

2. It was a point in favour of Carrick. You just knew he was right and couldn't prove him wrong.

3. Same could be said about any player :rolleyes: You could say Giggs won us lots of points too. Yet he's been criticised lots on here. If you're going down that route.

1. Yeah well done. You have conclusively proved that you have difficulty reading.

2. It's not a point in favour of Carrick. It is an end to any criticism of players that Fergie thinks are good enough.

3. No it couldn't be said about any player. It especially couldn't be said about Giggs last season.

Al Capwned

From June 20

Samich wrote: »

Ye'r the ones crying about Bateman!
Anyways, this is my last post in the soccer forum. g'luk

And today

Samich wrote: »

Reminds me of a certain poster on about Carrick and his "isn't able pass under pressure" argument.
Anyways not gonna post in here again. Can't take criticism at all.

Seems to me like you are seeking attention.


Edit - You are bringing a lot of this flak on yourself - Just give it a rest!!!

G.K.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wigan could be looking for a Tunnicliffe type player with Diame having left for West Ham, they also have a good record of actually giving loan players a chance.

Could be an option there. Not sure who else.

Fair point, though McCarthy and McArthur look to be 1st choice in there, if the end of last season is anything to go by.

If Martinez was to guarantee 3rd choice CM for Tunni I wouldn't vote against his going there.

Pudsy33

There is no need for insults

Pro. F

G.K. wrote: »

Fair point, though McCarthy and McArthur look to be 1st choice in there, if the end of last season is anything to go by.

If Martinez was to guarantee 3rd choice CM for Tunni I wouldn't vote against his going there.

I'm surprised that neither of those two have bigger clubs sniffing around them. Could be a great window for Wigan.

DM_7

What about Lingard? Somewhere like Blackpool or if they were willing to play him Swansea could suit his style.

Al Capwned

DM-ICE wrote: »

What about Lingard? Somewhere like Blackpool or if they were willing to play him Swansea could suit his style.

Gotta admit that I haven't seen him play for reserves or anything, but I watched him during the games in SA and China, and I was impressed...
Definitely agree that if he does go out on loan, that he would need to be played regularly.

Mitch Connor

DM-ICE wrote: »

What about Lingard? Somewhere like Blackpool or if they were willing to play him Swansea could suit his style.

only moved up to the reserves the season gone. Reckon he will be staying at United. Some Capital One Cup games possible, and a lot of training with the first team. Loan move maybe January onwards, more likely next season. That is how I see it anyway.

Same with Larnell Cole.

Real pity about Will Keane getting such a big injury, reckon this could have been a big season for him in terms of his development.

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

only moved up to the reserves the season gone. Reckon he will be staying at United. Some Capital One Cup games possible, and a lot of training with the first team. Loan move maybe January onwards, more likely next season. That is how I see it anyway.

Same with Larnell Cole.

Real pity about Will Keane getting such a big injury, reckon this could have been a big season for him in terms of his development.

I asked as I was reading (on manutd.com) that he went to America to train at end of last season, has developed a good bit over the last 12 months and wanted a loan move.

He said he would like to get around a first team squad so if he can do that at United your reading of it sounds about right

J. Marston

Andy Green ‏@andersred

Strong indications #MUFC IPO has been binned, not "paused". #glazernomics

Duncan Drasdo ‏@Drasdo

Hearing from top source that Glazers' #MUFC IPO has been pulled due to lack of interest at price & terms. Gs will blame market conditions

Andy Green ‏@andersred

Hearing #MUFC IPO pulled due to lack of investor demand at valuation / share structure demanded by Glazer family. #glazernomics

Andy Green ‏@andersred

Now we know why Fergie was wheeled out this week. Last ditch marketing.

Short-term has to be bad for #MUFC finances. Not reduction in interest bill and prospect of more bond buybacks. #glazernomics

Long-term a hugely embarrassing slap in the face. Hong Kong? No. Singapore? No. NYSE? No.

Saw that on Redcafe. IPO off?

Mars Bar

That doesn't sound good at all.

Pro. F

That's a pity.

Edit: I suppose the two options open to the Glazers if the IPO doesn't work are to offer better shares (voting ones and possibly more of them), or to take more money out of the club.

Cantona's Collars

Some news on Lucas.

Lopes insists the door is not closed to Barclays Premier League outfit, telling Radio Estadao ESPN: "I don't rule out the possibility that in the future there are some sort of negotiations, because we received Manchester [United] with great courtesy and left open the possibility of more talks."

He added: "Manchester [United] came to us and their approach was serious. Other teams expressed an interest for Lucas, but only through the media in their countries."

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/sao-paulo-moura-united-deal-possible-3180516.html

Seemingly his agent is now in the UK also........

DM_7

Oh feck

That can't be good.

Donnielighto

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Damn, we need more football games!

So, who has impressed over the 3 games?

Not a lot of football but blackett was good.

Al Capwned

Apologies if anyone, Samich included, was insulted or offended by my 'school' remark. Posted in a hurry, and wasn't intended to be interpreted as such.

Post since edited.
__________________________


Moving on....

Jimmy Iovine

Just read back over the past few pages there. Jaysus it was hard going in places. Looking forward to the 20th of August all the more now.

Schism

Jimmy, can you please post more. If for nothing more than seeing that Bebe sig grace my browser!

Kylo Ren

That IPO news is terrible, but not terribly surprising. No dividend, collapsing European market and a shrinking UK market.

Pj!

Don't know if the post-game Fergie comments were posted. It's tough trawling through today's sh1te posts but I didn't see them.

Sir Alex Ferguson has confirmed that Manchester United are looking at adding to summer signings Shinji Kagawa and Nick Powell as the former fired them to a 1-0 win over Shanghai Shenhua in the Chevrolet China Cup.

When quizzed on where United, who have been heavily linked with Robin Van Persie, Lucas Moura and Leighton Baines in recent weeks, are in terms of signing new players, Ferguson told reporters: "We are trying to add to the squad and are working on one or two things."

Kagawa, who struck in the 68th minute, was awarded with the sponsors' man of the match award and impressed Ferguson with his all-action display in his role just off the forward.

On the Japanese international, Ferguson said: "I thought he was terrific. He was involved in everything, all our interplay, all our possession, he was involved in most of it."

Ferguson also reserved special praise for Portugese striker Bebe, who has endured a nightmare spell at Old Trafford but has impressed on this pre-season tour.

After scoring an injury-time equaliser against Ajax Cape Town on Sunday, Bebe set up the winner and Ferguson was pleased with his contribution.

He added: "Bebe did fantastic to set him up for the goal, I thought he did really well when he came on."

Ferguson felt his troops did well to secure victory in the hot and humid conditions in Shanghai and feels the pre-season plans are coming along nicely.

The Scot said: "I was very pleased, I thought in the second half we did very well. We upped the tempo of the game and we tried to get more players into the penalty area.
"I thought that in the first half, although we had a lot of possession, I thought we were a bit pedantic and lacked the penetration in our speed of play but the second half we did very well."

The 70-year-old admitted that Shenhua, the team that former Chelsea forwards Didier Drogba and Nicolas Anelka now play for, had given his side a run for their money.

He said: "I think it's been a great workout, they've had to really run a lot because they [Shanghai Shenhua] were very organised, as you saw.

"There were men behind the ball all the time and it wasn't easy to play against but we found a way in the second half and we could have scored a few goals."

A fellow new signing, Powell, was also given a run-out from the start and was on the end of a nasty tackle from Wang Shouting which incensed Ferguson, who felt it was entirely unnecessary for a friendly.

On the tackle, Ferguson claimed: "Yeah, it was a bad tackle but he got up and played on.

"I thought I'd take him off at half-time with his first introduction to starting a game and he looks a really top player, the boy, he's going to be okay."

Kagawa and Powell appear to have settled in nicely already and Ferguson is excited at the prospect of his new signings continue to gel ahead of the new season.

The Scot said: "I think that it's always pleasing that the work they do in training transmits itself to an actual match situation, which we saw a lot of tonight so that was good. I'm pleased with that."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/07/25/3265090/ferguson-promises-to-add-to-squad-after-seeing-kagawa-down

v3ttel

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wigan could be looking for a Tunnicliffe type player with Diame having left for West Ham, they also have a good record of actually giving loan players a chance.

Could be an option there. Not sure who else.

I'd love to see Tunnicliffe on loan at Wigan. I think he'd do quite well for them with McCarthy there also. The bones of a potentially excellent, young, center midfield there.

He really has got the potential to be a very good player for us. I don't see him getting any game time except the League Cup perhaps.

A season at Wigan, etc, would do him the world of good.

Copper_pipe

Sky Italia ae saying that RVP will be going to Man Utd or Juventus after his representatives ruled out a move to man city

v3ttel

If the IPO doesn't work out, what are the other options to clear the debt?

Change the valuation off the club? Give voting shares and ditch the A & B type? Partial sale of the club? Full sale of the club?

I'm sick of having this cloud hanging over our club. It's been 7 years now.

Jimmy Iovine

Schism wrote: »

Jimmy, can you please post more. If for nothing more than seeing that Bebe sig grace my browser!

Haha I'll do my best. I'll admit I get a little excited myself seeing it on the screen.

I hope he makes a go of it this year. I was looking for him on the Fantasy Football site earlier. He was nowhere to be seen. I might email them and ask them to add him just so I can put him as captain every week. He's bound to go mad at least once and score 15 goals in the one game.

Pro. F

Rooney10 wrote: »

If the IPO doesn't work out, what are the other options to clear the debt?

Change the valuation off the club? Give voting shares and ditch the A & B type? Partial sale of the club? Full sale of the club?

I'm sick of having this cloud hanging over our club. It's been 7 years now.

The Glazers could keep going the same as they have been - paying interest and occasionally buying back some bonds - and then hope to refinance whatever they haven't bought back when the bonds fall due in a few years. That would seem like a bit of a risky strategy to me, because there is no guarantee that re-issued bonds would sell.

Mr.Crinklewood

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Just read back over the past few pages there. Jaysus it was hard going in places. Looking forward to the 20th of August all the more now.

Ha ha "Hard"..."in"...."places"

MagicMarker

Rooney10 wrote: »

If the IPO doesn't work out, what are the other options to clear the debt?

Sell all the players.

chainsawman

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Sky Italia ae saying that RVP will be going to Man Utd or Juventus after his representatives ruled out a move to man city

Wenger prefers him to go to Juventus than going to United if Arsenal has to sell him. He knows RVP will win United some trophies that will embarrass Wenger in front of Arsenal fans after getting nothing for 7 years with RVP present.

Kylo Ren

Anyone wanna buy me a T Shirt?

homerjay2005

jaysus lads, a few of ye need to cut out the willy waving in public and take it to PM, its not fair on the rest of the forum to see personal bickering and slagging every day, normally its the same group involved.

anyway, the IPO being off could be awful news, BUT, i hope now they sell the club and fuc* off.

Great men to run the club, s*it men to buy it.