Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Samich

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Mate, next time you wonder why you reckon some of the posters on this thread appear to take a different tone with you read back over this post as a response.

Sure complaining about something solves nothing.

Red Crow

Samich wrote: »

What are ya gonna do so? Glazers will do what they want. Protests outside of OT when they took over, they'll do what they want.

If the club goes bust then no one will buy it, how does this appeal to the Glazers?

Huh? The Glazers will do what they want until the fan base stops them. Besides why would you agree? You tend to enjoy being controversial and then claim a clique exists in this thread when your arguement falls through. You have shown that you don't really understand what is going on here [in relation to the debt].

Also, I'm not stating that is going to happen. I'm stating that it will take the club to fall into serious trouble before some start reading between the lines.

Degag wrote: »

I'm not sure i follow but it's a relatively mute point in any case. I think in essence, we both agree with each other on the fundamentals.

Fair enough dude!

Schism

I always liked to think to myself that if United did ever get into such trouble that it needed swift and massive monetary assistance that the fans themselves would step up to the plate and help with what they could.

I don't know if something like that would ever work but I always consoled myself as such by letting myself think that if it all came to a head the fans wouldn't let the club end.

A silly thing to think I know but some of the passion shown here gives me hope!

adox

Sad day for the club. I'm still shocked by it. :mad:

Whatever benefit of doubt Fergie was getting from me on his stance with the Glazers is going out the window tonight. His reputation will be seriously tarnished if, and by the looks of it it looks most likely to happen, he profits from a deal that is hugely damaging to Utd.

Someone used a Leeds Utd comparison earlier and on the face of it that looks a bit of an over reaction, but thinking about it it may not be as far fetched as it sounds.

Suddenly who we sign/don't sign this summer seems totally irrelevant.

Paul Tergat

Samich wrote: »

Sure complaining about something solves nothing.

Can you see my point though? If you say summert along the lines of, 'what do you reckon should be the next step then?' you may get less sharp responses and the atmosphere is generally better.

I dunno, there are just ways of going about things. We all want whats best for the club at the end of the day unless, :eek: - you a Glazer??

lordgoat

Schism wrote: »

I always liked to think to myself that if United did ever get into such trouble that it needed swift and massive monetary assistance that the fans themselves would step up to the plate and help with what they could.

I don't know if something like that would ever work but I always consoled myself as such by letting myself think that if it all came to a head the fans wouldn't let the club end.

A silly thing to think I know but some of the passion shown here gives me hope!

Sure look at what happened Leeds or even Rangers in Scotland. Do you think their fans would do something if they could? It's not that simple.

Samich

Eli Manning wrote: »

Huh? The Glazers will do what they want until the fan base stops them. Besides why would you agree? You tend to enjoy being controversial and then claim a clique exists in this thread when your arguement falls through. You have shown that you don't really understand what is going on here [in relation to the debt].

Also, I'm not stating that is going to happen. I'm stating that it will take the club to fall into serious trouble before some start reading between the lines.



Fair enough dude!

Fan base couldn't stop them taking over the club.

kryogen

I don't need the Glazers to give a **** about the fans, they have shown with the Bucs what they think of fans so I would not be expecting any different, but I would have expected them to take this opportunity to use other peoples money (again) to pay off the debt they levied on the club, using other peoples money

It makes the most sense, they do not have to put a penny in from themselves that way and retain full control of the club anyway. They would have effectively bought Manchester United for nothing, or about 10% of its value while still taking huge profits from it each year.

JaMarcus Hustle

Schism wrote:

A silly thing to think I know but some of the passion shown here gives me hope!

Oh my goodness lol

Samich

Surprised that not even one person thinks the money could go towards signing players.

Red Crow

Samich wrote: »

Fan base couldn't stop them taking over the club.

That's not my point...

Don't move the goalposts.

bullvine

I genuinely fear for the club now, can't believe this is happening.

I remember I asked the question a few weeks ago, what if they pocket the cash and everyone on here was adamant they wouldn't. I feel like we've been shafted.

I'm not really sure what Fergie can do though, if he rocks the boat, they'll get rid of him and we'd be much worse off.

Schism

lordgoat wrote: »

Sure look at what happened Leeds or even Rangers in Scotland. Do you think their fans would do something if they could? It's not that simple.

I know I know.

Red Crow

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Oh my goodness lol

What's your opinion? Serious question btw.

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

Sure complaining about something solves nothing.

So people should always just accept things? Never bother trying to change anything?

Bono is shaking his head disapprovingly at you somewhere.

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

I genuinely fear for the club now, can't believe this is happening.

I remember I asked the question a few weeks ago, what if they pocket the cash and everyone on here was adamant they wouldn't. I feel like we've been shafted.

I'm not really sure what Fergie can do though, if he rocks the boat, they'll get rid of him and we'd be much worse off.

to the original prospectus, they couldn't pocket the cash.

The new one is very different.

Samich

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's not my point...

Don't move the goalposts.

I was right, that's why. No one has the power to stop them.

Al Capwned

Right, i'm off to hopefully educate myself about the implications and ramifications of this - the majority of the posters (that are more knowledgable than me) that I look out for on here are adamant and passionate that this is very, very bad for the club, and I want to understand more about it.

Some heavy reading, methinks.

Schism

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Oh my goodness lol

I readily admit it's a silly train of thought.

Red Crow

Samich wrote: »

I was right, that's why. No one has the power to stop them.

You're always right. Even when you're wrong.

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

So people should always just accept things? Never bother trying to change anything?

Bono is shaking his head disapprovingly at you somewhere.

Well all people do on here is discuss it. People who try to change things actually discuss how they can change things, not just complain about the current situation.

Schism

lordgoat wrote: »

Sure look at what happened Leeds or even Rangers in Scotland. Do you think their fans would do something if they could? It's not that simple.

I also realise it's not that simple, like I said, I wanted to feel like the fans would help.

Samich

Eli Manning wrote: »

You're always right. Even when you're wrong.

yes.

JaMarcus Hustle

Eli Manning wrote: »

What's your opinion? Serious question btw.

I'm not entirely bothered. Obviously it's not nice how it's changed versus the original plans, but I'm not as fond of the club as others here to let it bother me a lot so not in the best position to comment.

Mitch Connor

Samich wrote: »

I was right, that's why. No one has the power to stop them.

so we should just accept things and be happy with the shafting of the club, like you.

The Glazers are good, the Glazers are great, we surrender our will as of this date.

kryogen

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1549107/000104746912007537/a2210287zf-1a.htm

In the above link, which I have already posted it mentions the new deal but gives no figures for it, a bit odd?

Anyway, I just wanted an excuse to post it again because everybody should read it

Jame Gumb

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Jame Gumb wrote: »

Isn't it worse than some people are saying?

Plan is to raise 383m...141m to be paid of the debt...therefore Glazers etc pocketing 242m.

In the interest of balance, the club will be better off post IPO, but this is definitely a missed opportunity.

those figures are dollars.

in pounds....

73-80million (estimated) to be raised to pay off debt.

The other half will go to whatever the Glazers want to use it for.

That 73million or so will equate to about 4.4million in annual debt repayment savings. The IPO cost 7.7million.

It is utterly insignificant in terms of debt repayments.

I know that they're in dollars.

My understanding (based on a very quick scan of the prospectus on an iPhone) is that:

- $141m / £90m will be used to pay down debt with a coupon of 8.75%, saving the club £7.9m per year (£90m x 8.75%).

- The balance of the $383m / £245m, i.e. $243m / £155m, will go directly to the Glazers and "senior management".

The costs of the IPO are obviously a one off while the reduction in the interest charges is perpetual. Nonetheless, I agree that the net effect is pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things. This really looks like a missed opportunity.

DM_7

Samich wrote: »

Surprised that not even one person thinks the money could go towards signing players.

Probably something to do with the money going in part to pay off debts so will be unavailable to the club and the rest destined for individuals personal bank accounts so again unavialable to the club. If it was intended for the money to be available to the club it would say that in the prospectus.

JaMarcus Hustle

Schism wrote: »

I readily admit it's a silly train of thought.

Oh I know, didn't mean that to sound condescending, but I just believe you're misinterpretting a hobby as passion.

Red Crow

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I'm not entirely bothered. Obviously it's not nice how it's changed versus the original plans, but I'm not as fond of the club as others here to let it bother me a lot so not in the best position to comment.

Shame, I thought you used to be very fond of the club.

Nalz

bollox

Mitch Connor

Jame Gumb wrote: »

I know that they're in dollars.

My understanding (based on a very quick scan of the prospectus on an iPhone) is that:

- $141m / £90m will be used to pay down debt with a coupon of 8.75%, saving the club £7.9m per year (£90m x 8.75%).

- The balance of the $383m / £245m, i.e. $243m / £155m, will go directly to the Glazers and "senior management".

The costs of the IPO are obviously a one off while the reduction in the interest charges is perpetual. Nonetheless, I agree that the net effect is pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things. This really looks like a missed opportunity.

Andy Green:

That extract says redeeming £71m of US$ bonds and £8.3m £ bonds = £81.3m. BUT are paying c. 108% of face value = £75m face value. Keep up!

---

JaMarcus Hustle

Eli Manning wrote: »

Shame, I thought you used to be very fond of the club.

I used to be! Nothing against United, more the sport itself. Just stopped caring as much. Still watch most United games, but fully aware that I am nothing but a fair-weather fan these days

FutureGuy

Guys, the best thing to do is to sleep on it. As someone stated this andersred lad can be all doom and gloom.

We'll wake up tomorrow and see what all the regular financial analysts make of the deal. I think it's fair to say that few people here have the financial acumen to make complete sense of the report.

Night all! I'm coming down with a serious dose of the flu! Must be Bebe fever.

Samich

So, what do the people against this think should be done?

Smegball

Don't see how this makes sense tbh! Why would anyone invest their money if they know most of it is just going into the Glazers pockets and the the company they are actually spending their money on.

homerjay2005

My initial feeling was anger. now its relaxing a bit. dont know what to make of it.

Red Crow

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I used to be! Nothing against United, more the sport itself. Just stopped caring as much. Still watch most United games, but fully aware that I am nothing but a fair-weather fan these days

Who cares? I'd still value your opinion over most and I'd wager you'd nearly want to share a bit more than you let on. A guy like you doesn't do fair-weather. Your all in. I've read some of your reports on scouting, college football and the league in general and you don't do half-arsed.

Ah well, another day!

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

Surprised that not even one person thinks the money could go towards signing players.

You seem to, but why would it be left out of the prospectus under the whole what we are going to do with the proceeds part!?

Jame Gumb wrote: »

I know that they're in dollars.

My understanding (based on a very quick scan of the prospectus on an iPhone) is that:

- $141m / £90m will be used to pay down debt with a coupon of 8.75%, saving the club £7.9m per year (£90m x 8.75%).

- The balance of the $383m / £245m, i.e. $243m / £155m, will go directly to the Glazers and "senior management".

The costs of the IPO are obviously a one off while the reduction in the interest charges is perpetual. Nonetheless, I agree that the net effect is pretty insignificant in the greater scheme of things. This really looks like a missed opportunity.

Your figures are a little off if Im reading your post correctly, and this part here -

Unless otherwise indicated, all information in this prospectus relating to the number of our Class A ordinary shares to be outstanding immediately after this offering excludes 16,000,000 Class A ordinary shares that will be reserved for future issuance under our 2012 Equity Incentive Award Plan and the Class A ordinary shares to be granted to members of our executive team upon consummation of this offering. See "Management — Employment or Service Agreements."

3hn2givr7mx1sc

3 hours ago I was fecking delighted. Fúck's sake.

Donnielighto

I hope kinda hope united fail and they end up bankrupt, united would rise again anyway.

It's bad business too. They could have cleared debt and then taken huge dividends for the next few years and that would be cool but after flip flopping around with the IPOs and then going back on their public word they are damaging credibility. Shocking carry on, should never have been let take it over in the first place. I'd actually assault them if i got the chance.

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

You seem to, but why would it be left out of the prospectus under the whole what we are going to do with the proceeds part!?



Your figures are a little off if Im reading your post correctly, and this part here -

Because the money mightn't need to go towards signing players. The Glazers have always made money available for Fergie, why think this time is any different?

DM_7

Samich wrote: »

So, what do the people against this think should be done?

sory that made me LOL.

how many people have already posted that the IPO should be used to pay off the debt like originally stated?

obviously thats what people think should be done.

SlickRic

Samich wrote: »

Surprised that not even one person thinks the money could go towards signing players.

i'm surprised anyone would think the Glazers would put the money towards players.

that sort of information would've been in the report. wake up.

certain Utd fans have been warning other fans about this kind of day for years; you're only seeing a small bit of what the Glazers can do in the position they're in.

you only have to look at the history of the Glazers with their other businesses and their other sports teams, that they do not give a single shít about the club, and will continue to bleed it dry.

look at one of your biggest rivals historically, my club, Liverpool. Hicks and Gillett were similar to what you're experiencing with the Glazers. people who just want to make a profit for themselves; not through the football, but purely from the types of avenues you're seeing tonight. and they had to be removed before they did anymore damage. the only difference between Utd and us is that you're more successful and have made huge amounts of money commercially that we never did. you had good business people as the Premier League became a worldwide phenomenon. but that success can only last so long.

not a cent of this will go back into your club. the debt on the club is not being serviced. it's to make money for individuals. that's the entire point of what's come out tonight.

to suggest otherwise in nonsense.

---

i know what many of you Utd fans are going through. you can only hope that footballing sense somehow prevails, and/or this somehow is not as bad as it seems.

Samich

DM-ICE wrote: »

sory that made me LOL.

how many people have already posted that the IPO should be used to pay off the debt like originally stated?

obviously thats what people think should be done.

Yeah but that's just what people think should be done, what can be done to change it?

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

Because the money mightn't need to go towards signing players. The Glazers have always made money available for Fergie, why think this time is any different?

Jesus Christ! Then why would you think the money would be going to sign players? You are the one who brought that to the table!

POSSY

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yes.

The IPO lining their pockets means United's best hope for dealing with the debt is ruined, while the debt remains basically as it was so United are pissing money away on debt while also making it harder to ever get away from it.

Had the Glazers used the IPO AS THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO, we could have paid off a good chunk of the debt. It could have had a significant impact. Had they paid off the debt they could have taken 20million or more out every year, still leaving United in profit and with money for transfers.

Right now we are a loss making company with massive debts and no real way to pay them off.

650million over the next 5 years. That is the task at hand.

But Fergie, Gill and the Glazers are sharing the the guts of 140million, so all is well cause they know what they are doing, they are succesful business men. Like Sean Quinn. Like Sean Fitzpatrick. Like Bernie Madof. Like the Enron guys.

Whatever you feel about them not paying off the debts that type of statement is completely over-the-top and dunphy-esque. I'm not going to defend them but I am going to call up over-the-top ****. In all reality how much has the club spent on transfer fees since they took over? How much success has the team had? Say what you like but money has been spent and trophies have been won. 99% of the posters on this forum have stated "one good midfielder and we'd be up there with Barca/Madrid" at some point this summer


The way some people are speaking you'd think the sky was falling in. The debt is more than manageable. Likening your clubs greatest manager to financial fraudsters is the height of stupidity, you would stand for SgtPepper making such a claim!

Dozyart

Ye whipped yourselves into a proper frenzy about this....as for the calls for Fergies head?? Fcuk off.....even if he was offered these shares who says he would accept them??

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

Jesus Christ! Then why would you think the money would be going to sign players? You are the one who brought that to the table!

Eh because we mightn't need to sign players. Glazers popped out 50 million last summer.

Donnielighto

Smegball wrote: »

Don't see how this makes sense tbh! Why would anyone invest their money if they know most of it is just going into the Glazers pockets and the the company they are actually spending their money on.

It isn't what is done with the money, it's what you get for it. They are buying equity in manchester united depending on the price of the shares the glazers could burn the cash and it would still be a good investment