Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Vic Vinegar

Macca07 wrote: »

Real Madrid have supposedly joined the race for Dembele.
http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/7954718/Agent-Real-interest-in-Dembele

Now that is a strange one, unless they have given up on signing Modric.

Could be a ruse to drive down the Modric price maybe. Or make Modric come out and say he wants to go to Madrid.

Red Crow

Blatter wrote: »

This is said the time, but Real Madrid went through a barren spell between 2003 and 2007 (no trophies won) and their revenue rose steadily (shot up between 06 and 07) during that time, so the theory doesn't really hold water.

That's because Real Madrid have a monster TV deal and commercial sponsorship began to take off and shoot through the roof (along with player wages, fees etc.)

Not winning 'doesn't hold water' is a load of rubbish and United would of lost money this year had it not been for a once off tax credit. (We won nothing this year)

Blatter

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's because Real Madrid have a monster TV deal and commercial sponsorship began to take off and shoot through the roof (along with player wages, fees etc.)

Not winning 'doesn't hold water' is a load of rubbish and United would of lost money this year had it not been for a once off tax credit. (We won nothing this year)

But how do you explain Arsenal's revenue remaining relatively steady over the last few years despite winning sweet FA?

Obviously winning naturally helps, nobody can dispute that, but do you really think a few barren years for United would drastically reduce their revenue?

Schism

@Blatter

You're right. It's entirely possible for the club to still do decently without progressing in competitions for a time, it is a worldwide brand after all. But surely that brand is only as healthy as the team backing it?

If the team isn't winning anything year in year out revenue is going to fall sharply.

QikBax

There's no doubting that Busquets is an excellent midfielder. You just have to look at his medal haul and the fact that he's started most of those games.

But I would hate to see him at United. He's one of the worst professionals I've seen and it would put me off going to OT. As much as I want to the team to win everything there's just some players I'd never want to see in the line up

Red Crow

Blatter wrote: »

But how do you explain Arsenal's revenue remaining relatively steady over the last few years despite winning sweet FA?

Obviously winning naturally helps, nobody can dispute that, but do you really think a few barren years for United would drastically reduce their revenue?

Champions League record. Making it out of the group in enough for some teams. Arsenal have a great financial model and I hope you aren't comparing Real Madrid or Arsenal to ourselves. They aren't reasonable comparisons.

If United fail to qualify for the Champions League at any point in the next 5 years the Glazers may have to re-finance. I don't think that will happen though.

Sgt Pepper 64

Mr anderson says its better to buy shares in Tescos

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19061040

Blatter

Eli Manning wrote: »

Champions League record. Making it out of the group in enough for some teams. Arsenal have a great financial model and I hope you aren't comparing Real Madrid or Arsenal to ourselves. They aren't reasonable comparisons.

If United fail to qualify for the Champions League at any point in the next 5 years the Glazers may have to re-finance. I don't think that will happen though.

Yes I know they're not great comparisons for one reason or another but it's hard to find a good one. Only Real Madrid and Barcelona compare to United in terms of a world wide brand and Arsenal are probably the biggest club that haven't won anything in a long time (bar Liverpool)

I think it's presumption that United need to keep winning stuff over the next few years to keep their revenue high enough to manage the debt and stay competitive. Maybe that would turn out to be the case but I wouldn't bet on it. I agree qualifying for the CL year in year out is important though but as you said yourself I don't think we're in any immediate danger with regards failing to do that.

Pro. F

Eli Manning wrote: »

With a once-off tax credit keeping Manchester United in profit this year which means success on the pitch is essential to this machines profitability. Another season like last year and we would be in red brackets. Which is something we cannot afford.

This sounds unlikely to me. Where are you getting it from?

I haven't seen the year end results yet (on my phone so I can't check my bookmarks just now), but I don't remember a loss being close to possible for this year, tax credit or no.

It sounds to me like the Goodwill Amortisation is being incorrectly accounted for again and is making the financial situation look worse than it actually is. This has happened a few times before, where people (even supposed experts like the FT) have claimed that United made a loss or were close to making a loss, but it turned out they were only getting confused by Goodwill Amortisation.

Goodwill Amortisation is a purely accounting loss that has no real effect and shouldn't be considered when calculating how much the club made or lost each year. It represents how much the Glazers paid for the brand, over and above concrete assets, when they bought the club and is written off every year in the accounts. A loss brought about because of Goodwill Amortisation is a meaningless loss.

Copper_pipe

Rafael and Lucas Moura both start for Brazil vs New Zealand if anyone is interested

homerjay2005

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Mr anderson says its better to buy shares in Tescos

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19061040

i heard some financial "expert" a few years ago claim a well run tesco store in UK will turn over more money than most football clubs

with their share price taking a hit over the past few months, now indeed is a pretty good time to invest in tesco.

mufcboy1999

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Rafael and Lucas Moura both start for Brazil vs New Zealand if anyone is interested

What time and channel is that kicking off ? Wouldn't mind watching moura

Adamcp898

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

What time and channel is that kicking off ? Wouldn't mind watching moura

Half 2

Red Crow

Pro. F wrote: »

This sounds unlikely to me. Where are you getting it from?

I haven't seen the year end results yet (on my phone so I can't check my bookmarks just now), but I don't remember a loss being close to possible for this year, tax credit or no.

It sounds to me like the Goodwill Amortisation is being incorrectly accounted for again and is making the financial situation look worse than it actually is. This has happened a few times before, where people (even supposed experts like the FT) have claimed that United made a loss or were close to making a loss, but it turned out they were only getting confused by Goodwill Amortisation.

Goodwill Amortisation is a purely accounting loss that has no real effect and shouldn't be considered when calculating how much the club made or lost each year. It represents how much the Glazers paid for the brand, over and above concrete assets, when they bought the club and is written off every year in the accounts. A loss brought about because of Goodwill Amortisation is a meaningless loss.

Nope, we will report a loss this year ignoring a once off tax credit. Reported by The Guardian, Financial Times etc.

Pro. F

Eli Manning wrote: »

Nope, we will report a loss this year ignoring a once off tax credit. Reported by The Guardian, Financial Times etc.

Yeah the Guardian and Financial Times have both made the specific mistake I detailed of including Goodwill Amortisation before when reporting on United's profits/losses. They are not trustworthy on this topic.

If you are basing your opinion on the state of United's finances on those papers then your opinion is almost certainly wrong. I made the same mistake previously, before I learned about how Goodwill Amortisation works and I have seen those papers continue to make the same mistake in their reporting since.

Owen_S

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

What time and channel is that kicking off ? Wouldn't mind watching moura

Doesn't appear to be on RTE anyway, but it's a very entertaining game so far.

double GG

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

That was one of the worst scuffed shots ever! Great build up play though.

Red Crow

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah the Guardian and Financial Times have both made the specific mistake I detailed of including Goodwill Amortisation before when reporting on United's profits/losses. They are not trustworthy on this topic.

If you are basing your opinion on the state of United's finances on those papers then your opinion is almost certainly wrong. I made the same mistake previously, before I learned about how Goodwill Amortisation works and I have seen those papers continue to make the same mistake in their reporting since.

Oh my. I understand how goodwill works and particularly amortisation of goodwill works. So do the FT and other media sources. You don't exist in a specialist group than only considers amortisation of goodwill. The fact is that we will report a loss excluding a once off tax credit. That is a bad thing. I appreciate that it doesn't recognise the true value of the amortisation charge but that is how the accounts work and it will appear the accounts until it's 15 year cycle ceases.

What happened the PIKs? Did they win exactly $400 Million in the lotto? This question exactly highlights why the accounts do not reflect correctly the financial state of Manchester United but they are the most accurate source and that includes the amortisation charge.

Owen_S

double GG wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

That was one of the worst scuffed shots ever! Great build up play though.

Yeah it's scary to think that this is essentially an U23 team, Moura is starting to come into the game now.

Macca07

game finished at 3-0 to Brazil. Rafael lasted the 90 mins.
How did he play? Was Lucas Moura any good?

Mars Bar

Rafael played well. Should have had an assist but Neymar fluffed it. Rafael also took a strike from distance near the end but wasn't causing too much bother with it.

double GG

Macca07 wrote: »

game finished at 3-0 to Brazil. Rafael lasted the 90 mins.
How did he play? Was Lucas Moura any good?

Lucas scored 4 and assisted 2 more. Other than that he was terrible.

Pro. F

Eli Manning wrote: »

Oh my. I understand how goodwill works and particularly amortisation of goodwill works. So do the FT and other media sources. You don't exist in a specialist group than only considers amortisation of goodwill.

The FT and the Guardian have in the past shown clearly that they do not understand the significance of Goodwill Amortisation. They have mis-reported on the financial situation at United because of their misunderstanding.

Eli Manning wrote: »

The fact is that we will report a loss excluding a once off tax credit. That is a bad thing. I appreciate that it doesn't recognise the true value of the amortisation charge but that is how the accounts work and it will appear the accounts until it's 15 year cycle ceases.

If you were to say that that type of loss (ie a loss made because of including the Goodwill Amortisation) would be a bad thing because it might scare off potential investors, then I would say fair enough, that's possible. But it seems you are saying that that type of loss would mean that we would actually be losing money and would consequently be properly hampered in buying players. That is incorrect. That type of loss would be a purely accounting loss and would not have such an affect on the club.

Eli Manning wrote: »

What happened the PIKs? Did they win exactly $400 Million in the lotto? This question exactly highlights why the accounts do not reflect correctly the financial state of Manchester United but they are the most accurate source and that includes the amortisation charge.

I don't know what happened with the PIKs, nobody does. My own guess would be that they were refinanced and, as such, money will be taken out of the club to pay for that debt, sooner or later. But that is just speculation.

The potential (likely imo) existence of Glazer debts outside of the club which the club will probably have to pay for does not validate what you are saying about losses caused by Goodwill Amortisation.

Mars Bar

De Gea is sporting a new hairstyle



*I do not own the copy right of this photo*

Kylo Ren

Ah yes, the "I want to look like a tit" cut. Classic.

Pro. F

Mars Bar wrote: »

*I do not own the copy right of this photo*

Don't worry, I do and I'm cool with you using it.

tvercetti

Keno 92 wrote: »

Ah yes, the "I want to look like a tit" cut. Classic.

DDG could pull off any look!! What a Stud!!

Mars Bar

Watching the Spanish game and I've never seen the pitch in Old Trafford so wet. The ball is moving incredibly slowly.

Red Crow

@ Pro F - No I'm not valuing the amortisation in monetary terms. That would be impossible. I'm suggesting that in the overall scheme of things their value is considered on the basis that it exists in the accounts and as people know it's value it's treated as an accounting loss. However, while you state that we do not have a physical loss because of this I'd argue that we are still accruing a physical or actual loss because the Glazers still have not confirmed what happened the PIK's so I'm guessing they may know be secured against Red Football Ltd or against us by some other means. Also I believe the Glazers will take there full 50% of the consolidated net income of the company every year while under ownership in the Cayman Islands for the 5 year period that they can provide limited accounting reports.

Also, what do you think of this IPO?

Samich

Mars Bar wrote: »

Watching the Spanish game and I've never seen the pitch in Old Trafford so wet. The ball is moving incredibly slowly.

Will need to be relaid I'd say before the start of the season.

Mars Bar

Samich wrote: »

Will need to be relaid I'd say before the start of the season.

It looks fairly patchy alright. I'd be expecting it to be relaid unless our ground staff and pitch guys are amazing!

Samich

Mars Bar wrote: »

It looks fairly patchy alright. I'd be expecting it to be relaid unless our ground staff and pitch guys are amazing!

Wasn't something done with it straight after the end of the season? They definitely dug it up, they hardly put the same ground in again though. Looks terrible.

Mr.Crinklewood

Molde lost one nil against Basel in their Champions League qualifier.

Were playing at home, man sent off after 28 mins, conceded on 79.

Vic Vinegar

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Molde lost one nil against Basel in their Champions League qualifier.

Were playing at home, man sent off after 28 mins, conceded on 79.

Unlucky!

___________


Cleverley is playing well against Uruguay. Suarez is being booed constantly too, nice.

Copper_pipe

BREAKING NEWS: BEBE scores against market Drayton in a friendly!!

Kylo Ren

Copper_pipe wrote: »

BREAKING NEWS: BEBE scores against market Drayton in a friendly!!

The man cannot, nay will not be stopped!

Copper_pipe

Keno 92 wrote: »

Copper_pipe wrote: »

BREAKING NEWS: BEBE scores against market Drayton in a friendly!!

The man cannot, nay will not be stopped!

They're up 4-1

G.K.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i heard some financial "expert" a few years ago claim a well run tesco store in UK will turn over more money than most football clubs

That seems to be the case, it's mentioned in Soccernomics as well.

Jimmy Iovine

Copper_pipe wrote: »

BREAKING NEWS: BEBE scores against market Drayton in a friendly!!

Beast!

Hunter Mahan

Interesting article, will our club be sold again?

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/163162.html

tupac_healy

Copper_pipe wrote: »

They're up 4-1

I heard he got all 5

Mr Alan

G.K. wrote: »

That seems to be the case, it's mentioned in Soccernomics as well.

Yep, tis true

The money involved in football from transfer fees, to club valuations, to players wages, to agents fees, to debt levels is so so so out of touch with reality that it's frightening. The bubble has to burst eventually & when it does, it'll not be a pretty sight I don't think!

Kylo Ren

I now use Bebe as the protagonist in those Chuck Norris Jokes.

E.g. Bebe can draw a perfect circle. With a ruler.

Once a cobra bit Bebes' leg. After five days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.

Bebe knows Victoria's secret.

Bebe lost his virginity before his dad did.

Backstreet Moyes

Whats peoples opinions on Joe Allen cant say i have seen enough of him. From what i read he is tidy on the ball and a good passer of the ball. Would he be a decent signing or is Liverpool his level.

shrewdness

Paulo Freitas ‏@Cynegeticus
Lucas Moura has been registered by São Paulo for Copa Sudamericana. Since today he also owns 30% of his economic rights. #SPFC #MUFC

DM_7

Nuts102 wrote: »

Whats peoples opinions on Joe Allen cant say i have seen enough of him. From what i read he is tidy on the ball and a good passer of the ball. Would he be a decent signing or is Liverpool his level.

He is only around 22(?) Its not really possible to tell what his level will be but his progression and attributes point towards a guy who could be very very good. As it is he is very good on the ball and a player I would call intelligent on the field. Works hard as well. Gary Speed (RIPl was a big fan of Allens.

I don't really get the Liverpool level comment tbh, unless you mean ambitous and trying to improve - then its fair.

Will I Amnt

Nuts102 wrote: »

Whats peoples opinions on Joe Allen cant say i have seen enough of him. From what i read he is tidy on the ball and a good passer of the ball. Would he be a decent signing or is Liverpool his level.

Personally I don't think he's good enough for us and if Liverpool have any ambition I don't think he's the answer for them either.
Decent player but I'd rather spend a bit more on someone else.
Standout player at Swansea and wouldn't look out of place at a bigger club but not what we should be looking at.

LostBoy101

Lads sorry if I'm interrupting as I thought this is the best place to ask, is the Munich Air Crash movie made by BBC a good source for my L.C Investigation project? I read an article that the family of Sir Matt Busby claim that the film was inaccurate and paints a false image on the history of United.

Article - http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/The-family-of-Sir-Matt-Busby-are-furious-at-the-portrayal-of-the-iconic-Manchester-United-boss-in-a-new-movie-showing-on-TV-this-weekend-article726412.html

Donnielighto

I know im not a hugely regular poster but if someone could see fit to grace me with a sig i would be massively grateful.

preferred players would be nemanja, tony v, bebe, shinji, anderson, de gea or berba


or scholes, nani, the twins or fletch. tbh as long as it isnt rooney giggs, lindegaard id be happy with any 1st teamer


fergie would be a nice one too though....


i love our squad

Your Airbag

Donnielighto wrote: »

I know im not a hugely regular poster but if someone could see fit to grace me with a sig i would be massively grateful.

preferred players would be nemanja, tony v, bebe, shinji, anderson, de gea or berba


or scholes, nani, the twins or fletch. tbh as long as it isnt rooney giggs, lindegaard id be happy with any 1st teamer


fergie would be a nice one too though....


i love our squad

Jaysus, somones easily pleased. Would you take a Fred the red sig? :pac: