Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

meriwether

Jame Gumb wrote: »

Jesus, if it happens imagine how p..sed Arsenal fans will be...

It's their equivalent of Rooney joining another Premiership side.

Piers Morgan's Twitter rants should be funny...

I'll be sad to see him go, but if we can take 20m off United for an injury prone 29year old who may or may not fit into the united team, and isn't what they actually need, then there are advantages.

Frankly, I think its a ridiculous signing for United on the basis that they have Rooney/Welbeck/Hernandez alreacy, and need a midfielder badly.

donalg1

If we do sign RVP I will sh1t my pants.

dahat

donalg1 wrote: »

If we do sign RVP I will sh1t my pants.

Put your nappy on now

fergiesfolly

MagicMarker wrote: »

Mass.

Well, its not working.

Red Crow

meriwether wrote: »

I'll be sad to see him go, but if we can take 20m off United for an injury prone 29year old who may or may not fit into the united team, and isn't what they actually need, then there are advantages.

Frankly, I think its a ridiculous signing for United on the basis that they have Rooney/Welbeck/Hernandez alreacy, and need a midfielder badly.

So true. I don't want van Persie becuase he will definitely stifle the growth of Danny Welbeck but I will take Alex Song.

Jame Gumb

Eli Manning wrote: »

meriwether wrote: »

I'll be sad to see him go, but if we can take 20m off United for an injury prone 29year old who may or may not fit into the united team, and isn't what they actually need, then there are advantages.

Frankly, I think its a ridiculous signing for United on the basis that they have Rooney/Welbeck/Hernandez alreacy, and need a midfielder badly.

So true. I don't want van Persie becuase he will definitely stifle the growth of Danny Welbeck but I will take Alex Song.

Or Jack Wilshire

DM_7

MagicMarker wrote: »

If we do sign RVP then surely that means Rooney will stick with the No. 10 role and Kagawa will be shifted out left?

Well Phelan said this yesterday

'we've introduced Shinji into the team now playing in a certain role and we need the other players around him to understand what he can bring to this team'

to me that means Kagawa was bought to play a certain role and he won't be shifted out anywhere.

Blatter

DM-ICE wrote: »

Well Phelan said this yesterday

'we've introduced Shinji into the team now playing in a certain role and we need the other players around him to understand what he can bring to this team'

to me that means Kagawa was bought to play a certain role and he won't shifted out anywhere.

I honestly don't think Fergie has settled on what positions he'll play the players in the most next season.

He obviously has some idea but I'm sure that's very subject to change. He'll try out a few different combinations.

tvercetti

Eli Manning wrote: »

So true. I don't want van Persie becuase he will definitely stifle the growth of Danny Welbeck but I will take Alex Song.

No Thanks!!!

DM_7

Jame Gumb wrote: »

Or Jack Wilshire

You must have moved past your injury concerns about Cleverley, Anderson and Fletcher if you want Wilshere.

You know he missed all of last season, as he had an ankle injury, followed by stress fracture in his foot followed by a knee operation on a long term injury he was carrying?

s_carnage

tvercetti wrote: »

No Thanks!!!

Song would be a superb signing. Himself and Van Persie were by far Arsenals best players last season. If it was a choice between Song and RVP for United I'd pick Song every day of the week.

DM_7

Blatter wrote: »

I honestly don't think Fergie has settled on what positions he'll play the players in the most next season.

He obviously has some idea but I'm sure that's very subject to change. He'll try out a few different combinations.

I would think he had a particular role in mind when he signed Kagawa.

Yes, I agree it would change depending on injuries form etc but I believe Kagawa was bought with a set role in mind when everyone is fit.

Thats based on the comments from the manager, the assistant and they type of Player Kagawa is. I see him tasked with linking midfield and attack. Happy to say I could be wrong about that.

Corvo

I am starting to wonder which way Ferguson wants this team to proceed, as with some purchases he may actually be taking a step backwards.

I might be able to explain it a little bit better like this -

WAYNE ROONEY & FORMATION

Rooney is now, what, 27 years of age and heading into his prime years if he is not already in them. He is now regularly hitting a good goal ratio in a season (18, 20, 34, 16, 35 for the past 5 seasons) and he has been a consistent performer for the team over this period.

Couple that with the fact that he has constantly been paired with different striker partners for no sustained period of time (Ruud Van Nistlerooy, Louis Saha, Henrik Larsson, Dimitar Berbatov, Cristiano Ronaldo, Javi Hernandez and Danny Welbeck all spring to mind straight away) and the fact he has played various positions (Support Striker, Left Wing, Lone Striker and the No. 10 and Attacking Midfield) it is pretty impressive to say the least that he performs the way he does.

Is it not time to actually use him in one position once and for all? Now with the proposed transfer of Robin Van Persie and the arrival of Kagawa, it all seems very confused.

1. Van Persie arrives and we revert to 4-4-2, then Kagawa is not being used his full potential. Plus, Welbeck will not get the game time he needs and the once flowering partnership between him and Rooney was a waste of time last season.

2. Van Persie doesn't arrive but Ferguson wants to use Kagawa in his best position, the Rooney is the Lone Striker and he is once again shifted from his preferred position and both Hernandez and Welbeck lose game time.

3. Van Persie arrives and Ferguson wants to use both him and Kagawa in their best position which means Van Persie as the Lone Striker and Kagawa just behind then the likelyhood is that Rooney is shunted to the left. Probably the worse possible scenario he is once again shifted out wide and the other strikers lose game time.

Either way someone is getting sacrificed position wise, or the fact that their game time will be limited and their potential progress as a player is stifled (Welbeck)

I believe Rooney should be a player whose abilities should be harnessed, not constantly being adapted to suit other players needs.

I do wonder why Ferguson bothered with the Rooney/Welbeck partnership last season (which was far from perfect but promising) when he is so quick to now probably dismantle it.

gosplan

tupac_healy wrote: »

Ah leave him alone, it's probably going somewhere!! Please sir go on with your tale.....


What? That's the end of it? Jesus that was stupid

Hmmm,

maybe analogies are beyond this thread.


In a completely unrelated note, anyone think Moura and his agent were over publicising the interest from United just to get someone like PSG to pay him a ridiculous amount of money???

tvercetti

s_carnage wrote: »

Song would be a superb signing. Himself and Van Persie were by far Arsenals best players last season. If it was a choice between Song and RVP for United I'd pick Song every day of the week.

Song is good but overrated IMO, I think due to his ability to play a good ball over the top now and again, people overlook how poor his defensive positioning is at times and how lazy he can be. Kagawa would have a field day against him.

Copper_pipe

Could fergie be looking to put rooney in the CM/CAM position if we get RVP?

Paul Tergat

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Could fergie be looking to put rooney in the CM/CAM position if we get RVP?

I would hate him in CM. He is an awesome striker and should be played there. Kag will play the CAM role. I just dont see the need for RVP

FutureGuy

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Could fergie be looking to put rooney in the CM/CAM position if we get RVP?

Not CAM if we have Kagawa.

Corvo

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Could fergie be looking to put rooney in the CM/CAM position if we get RVP?

Would be such a waste at this stage of his career. He is hitting prime and should be the main man up top.

meriwether

Can anyone outline how RVP could fit in?
What formation?


Carrick
Nani Kagawa Valencia/Young
Rooney RVP


??

Defensively atrocious.

Fenix

DDG

Rafael Vidic Rio Evra

Nani Carrick Clev

Kagawa Roo

RVP

Still don't understand it though, think it might just be a case of too good a player to turn down...

Corvo

meriwether wrote: »

Can anyone outline how RVP could fit in?
What formation?


Carrick
Nani Kagawa Valencia/Young
Rooney RVP


??

Defensively atrocious.

And an absolute waste of Kagawa which is why I'm wondering is Fergie just approaching this transfer window which a scattergun approach (why buy Kagawa and then not play him where he should be) or will there be a few departures (i.e. Nani) where Kagawa will then fill in (again, not his position)

It's utter madness if I'm honest

meriwether

Fenix wrote: »

DDG

Rafael Vidic Rio Evra

Nani Carrick Clev

Kagawa Roo

RVP

Still don't understand it though, think it might just be a case of too good a player to turn down...

Rooney left wing?

Not a great use of him.

Or are you going 4-4-1-1?

No left winger if thats the case.

gosplan

Is there anything at all, anything concrete to rely on as regards RVP going to United.

I really find it hard to believe and tbh it sounds like made up stuff that runs because it's the biggest name available player and the biggest club.

1: Totally doesn't fit the profile of player United are looking for as regards age and resale value

2: You cannot play Kagawa, RVP and Rooney together in formation that get's the best out of them.

3: If you try, Welbeck is finished.

v3ttel

Has there been some sort of development about the RVP story? Seems everyone has turned back to it now that Lucas appears he is off to PSG.

Truck loads of posts about RVP in the last two pages, but absolutely zilch on Sky Sports or BBC about it. Only sources appear to be one lads mate in Kildare and M.E.N. Not exactly too credible tbf.

Hoping that we do get him, the only way I could possibly see it would be:

---

DDG
Smalling-Rio-Vidic-Evra

---

Carrick

---

Val

---

Nani

---

Kagawa

---

---Rooney----RVP----

That keeps everyone in their best position as much as possible, playing a diamond shape. Could be light defensively though.

meriwether

Rooney10 wrote: »

Has there been some sort of development about the RVP story? Seems everyone has turned back to it now that Lucas appears he is off to PSG.

Truck loads of posts about RVP in the last two pages, but absolutely zilch on Sky Sports or BBC about it. Only sources appear to be one lads mate in Kildare and M.E.N. Not exactly too credible tbf.

Hoping that we do get him, the only way I could possibly see it would be:

---

DDG
Smalling-Rio-Vidic-Evra

---

Carrick

---

Val

---

Nani

---

Kagawa

---

---Rooney----RVP----

That keeps everyone in their best position as much as possible, playing a diamond shape. Could be light defensively though.

Carrick, Evra and Rio constitute 3 dodgy elements of a back 6 unit there (Rio is approaching the end).

You cpouldn't possibly win anything in Europe with that line up (granted, it would be amended slightly).

DM_7

To me Rooney is brilliant.

But United are reliant on him for Goals and Creativity. When he is out or off form United have serious problems. See his form problems towards end of last season as an example.

Signing Kagawa helps Rooney with the creativity. If RVP is signed it helps Rooney with the goal scoring. I don't see how that can be anything other than a good thing.

its a long season, he needs more established quality to help him.

v3ttel

meriwether wrote: »

Carrick, Evra and Rio constitute 3 dodgy elements of a back 6 unit there (Rio is approaching the end).

You cpouldn't possibly win anything in Europe with that line up (granted, it would be amended slightly).

I wasn't trying to lay out a team to win in Europe, I was trying to fit in what I think would be our best 11 (if we were to sign RVP), with a shape that keeps as many players as possible in their best positions, seeing as its topical.

Rio is still fine, and complements Vidic perfectly. You can put Rafael RB and put Smalling in CB either.

I have concerns over Evra defensively, but he is going to be in any possible United line up, because he is the only LB we have available.

Carrick, I'm not engaging in the Carrick debate.

Cokeistan

Rooney isn't going to be playing every single match, united will be playing around 50 - 60 games depending on how successful they are in the cups, so why not established have quality replacing established quality by signing RVP. Saying that, I'd still be worried about his fitness

Al Capwned

The only way any of it makes sense to me is if there was to be a serious rotation policy.

To get the best results for the team, you do NOT play your best attacker anywhere other than in his best position.

Rooney anywhere other than up front would be crazy.

aperture_nuig

meriwether wrote: »

Carrick, Evra and Rio constitute 3 dodgy elements of a back 6 unit there (Rio is approaching the end).

You cpouldn't possibly win anything in Europe with that line up (granted, it would be amended slightly).

While I agree with you, if we bought RVP I really like how that formation looks on paper. If we were stronger defensively (Hopefully get smalling in beside Vidic for a start) then that formation looks good for me.

meriwether

aperture_nuig wrote: »

While I agree with you, if we bought RVP I really like how that formation looks on paper. If we were stronger defensively (Hopefully get smalling in beside Vidic for a start) then that formation looks good for me.

Carrick doesn't give enough cover to the defence as is (which is why Scholes was brought back from pottering about the back garden).

That element hasn't improved, and in fact is getting worse as Scholes ages.

meriwether

Rooney10 wrote: »

I wasn't trying to lay out a team to win in Europe, I was trying to fit in what I think would be our best 11 (if we were to sign RVP), with a shape that keeps as many players as possible in their best positions, seeing as its topical.

Rio is still fine, and complements Vidic perfectly. You can put Rafael RB and put Smalling in CB either.

I have concerns over Evra defensively, but he is going to be in any possible United line up, because he is the only LB we have available.

Carrick, I'm not engaging in the Carrick debate.

There has to be a link between the two.

gosplan

DM-ICE wrote: »

See his form problems towards end of last season as an example.

Err, i'm not a United fan but didn't Rooney have a great run in???


The way I see it, RVP would be good for any team in the world so you can always say it makes sense.

However, if United have a weakness in the team that needs fixing, it's not up top, especially now they've signed Kagawa.

aperture_nuig

meriwether wrote: »

Carrick doesn't give enough cover to the defence as is (which is why Scholes was brought back from pottering about the back garden).

That element hasn't improved, and in fact is getting worse as Scholes ages.

Agreed. I would have said we could buy someone to fill in at DM if this was the formation we went with, but I figured that that probably wont happen!

Backstreet Moyes

I will actually be sick if United sign Van Persie he has had one injury free season. Whoever said Rooney had a bad end to the season must have not watched Arsenal or the Euro's. RVP was shocking in the Euros and the last few games of the season.

All signing RVP will do is stunt the growth of Hernandez and Wellbeck. It will probably mean a change in formation where the balance of the team looks all wrong. It will probably mean Kagawa being moved from his best position and i cant see Rooney being happy with being rotated. It also means the problem from midfield is ignored which is our biggest weakness. With our wingers and our strikers we score enough goals. Add in Kagawa and he offers us another dimension through the middle which offers more goals. But United struggled last year through the middle their is very little creativity. We need someone good on the ball who can go forward and offer something through the middle. Its painfully obvious to see but if our wingers play bad we have no creativity through the middle. RVP woud be a luxury buy that is not needed. I dont agree he is too good to to pass up he is not Messi or Ronaldo. We dont need a striker their are far too many negatives with signing him. Im actually starting to worry he could sign and our summer business is done with.

On a different note does anybody know what time the friendly is today?

yup id prefer athletico madrids striker fernando something if we had to get a striker

Mitch Connor

Macie Rotten Lawn wrote: »

yup id prefer athletico madrids striker fernando something if we had to get a striker

Bilbao? Fernando Llorente?

Or Madrids Falcao?

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Bilbao? Fernando Llorente?

Or Madrids Falcao?

sorry liorente seems like the better prospect rvp can b great for a year or 2 but he could also be injured as a matter of fact id prefer to play berba than sign rvp

the only logic i can see is if united are signing him so man city dont

keane2097

Macie Rotten Lawn wrote: »

yup id prefer athletico madrids striker fernando something if we had to get a striker

This seems well thought out, I support this guy.

Kerrydude1981

Nuts102 wrote: »

I will actually be sick if United sign Van Persie he has had one injury free season. Whoever said Rooney had a bad end to the season must have not watched Arsenal or the Euro's. RVP was shocking in the Euros and the last few games of the season.

All signing RVP will do is stunt the growth of Hernandez and Wellbeck. It will probably mean a change in formation where the balance of the team looks all wrong. It will probably mean Kagawa being moved from his best position and i cant see Rooney being happy with being rotated. It also means the problem from midfield is ignored which is our biggest weakness. With our wingers and our strikers we score enough goals. Add in Kagawa and he offers us another dimension through the middle which offers more goals. But United struggled last year through the middle their is very little creativity. We need someone good on the ball who can go forward and offer something through the middle. Its painfully obvious to see but if our wingers play bad we have no creativity through the middle. RVP woud be a luxury buy that is not needed. I dont agree he is too good to to pass up he is not Messi or Ronaldo. We dont need a striker their are far too many negatives with signing him. Im actually starting to worry he could sign and our summer business is done with.

On a different note does anybody know what time the friendly is today?

Kick off at 7pm

keane2097

keane2097 wrote: »

This seems well thought out, I support this guy.

well its more constructive than your sarcasm

DM_7

gosplan wrote: »

Err, i'm not a United fan but didn't Rooney have a great run in???


The way I see it, RVP would be good for any team in the world so you can always say it makes sense.

However, if United have a weakness in the team that needs fixing, it's not up top, especially now they've signed Kagawa.

It has been debated on here so thats why I included it in my post.

he led the team as a goal scorer but his general play suffered as he had so much work to do. He killed himself holding everything together last season and his touch and general play suffered as a result (as the seasnon went on). He had some fitness issues that may have contributed to that according to Hodgson pre euros.

I'm not taking anything away from the man. He was critical to United throughout last season but he needs more help.

Cokeistan

Not sure how credible the sources at the Manchester Evening News are, but they claim RVP could sign as early as tonight for United.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1585555_manchester-united-ready-to-secure-robin-van-persie-deal

Manchester United have shot into pole position in the race to sign wantaway Arsenal striker Robin van Persie.

Earlier this week Roberto Mancini virtually conceded defeat in his attempts to lure the Dutchman to City and Juventus, the other contenders in a three-way battle, are now thought to have cooled their interest after being confronted with his hefty wage demands.

That leaves the Reds at the front of the queue – and M.E.N. Sport understands van Persie could jet in to sign as early as tonight.

Blatter

I'm not sure if I've ever seen the Manchester Evening News nail such a big exclusive before BBC/Sky/Guardian etc. so I'd take their RVP story with a pinch of salt.

nicklauski

He's not my mate DM, he's Fergies

As I said I'll believe when it happens, if it happens. But he got it right before so I think it that there may be a hint of truth in it.

Like everyone else, I would rather the money spent on a CM rather than RVP.

If he signed, I could see this team come into play in bigger games in the league/europe

---

DDG

---

Raf Rio Vida Evra
--Jones--Carrick-
Val---Kag---Rooney

---

RVP

---

But we're all getting ahead of ourselves here. It may not happen.

But, I honestly think there is too much being said about this for there not to be any truth in it.

DM_7

meriwether wrote: »

Carrick doesn't give enough cover to the defence as is (which is why Scholes was brought back from pottering about the back garden).

That element hasn't improved, and in fact is getting worse as Scholes ages.

I don't think Scholes was brought back to help cover the defence.

Up to New year after 19 games United conceded 17 league goals, 6 in one game. Conceded 16 in total over the next 19 so he hardly helped the defence much - only one goal change there.

I think Scholes was brought back due to the injuries/illnesses suffered by Anderson, Clev, Flether.

Giggsy11

Blatter wrote: »

I'm not sure if I've ever seen the Manchester Evening News nail such a big exclusive before BBC/Sky/Guardian etc. so I'd take their RVP story with a pinch of salt.

Most of the times they copy transfer rumors from guardian word by word. Pathetic that they don't even try to change the content.

Well it is either they copy or Guardian copy from M.E.N.

Cantona's Collars

Sign RVP,let Moura go to Paris & spend the money saved on Isco & Dembele.

Moura can't force his way into the Olympic starting XI and the baggage he carries in the form of his agent/family seems to be a bit much.Better value out there,just look at Arsenal-getting business done with little fuss and have 2 more players lined up this week.

homerjay2005

i dont think i can take much more of this transfer window, its absolute madness....