Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Nalz

Des wrote: »

Why is Ferguson doing this via the press?

If any club/Manager made those quotes about a United player this thread would be up in arms, and no question.

They are absolutely disgraceful quotes from Alex Ferguson.

lotza lolz

FutureGuy

I don't blame Wenger for not wanting to sell to us as he knows the advantage it will give us. If SAF was in the same position, he would want to sell abroad too.

Having said that, RVP has been an absolute legend for Arsenal and has treated the club with the utmost respect over the course of his time there. He clearly wants to win medals and the reason he is leaving is that he does not feel that it is possible given the current Arsenal set up. He has been upfront about his reasons and, compared to some of the transfer muppetry we have seen over the last two years (e.g..."oh I'm moving to this club because of the project" bullsh!t), is a role model for conducting oneself during the exit from a club. Compare it to Nasri!

Wenger needs to repay some respect and let RVP go to a club he wants, whether it be United or not. He deserves better imo.

Leiva

Des wrote: »

Why is Ferguson doing this via the press?

If any club/Manager made those quotes about a United player this thread would be up in arms, and no question.

They are absolutely disgraceful quotes from Alex Ferguson.

Your honesty is refreshing Des .

Al Capwned

Des wrote: »

Why is Ferguson doing this via the press?

If any club/Manager made those quotes about a United player this thread would be up in arms, and no question.

They are absolutely disgraceful quotes from Alex Ferguson.

Leiva wrote: »

Your honesty is refreshing Des .

Seriously? Disgraceful???

DM_7

If RVP is an issue for people as he could stop Welbeck and Hernandez getting game time (i know people have other concerns, price injury record but I am only wondering about the holding back Welbz, Chica right now)

why is a midfielder okay? After all a new player in midfield will stop Cleverley and Anderson getting game time.

Its a bit of an inconsistency imo - I understand the other concerns but not the holding back other players one.

for what its worth I want more proven quality in both positions. But for the way SAF plays, a proven goalscorer to help Rooney is probably more important to him now one is on the 'market'.

He doesn't seem worried by midfield at all at this stage so I dont see a midfield player coming in regardless of how the RVP persuit works out. Which is a disappointment.

bullvine

Was Ferguson any different when he refused Heinze to Liverpool

keano_afc

The comments from Ferguson are foolish at best.

"I dont understand why they're behaving this way". Really? You dont understand why the club dont want to sell their best player and club captain to a rival team? Have a think about it.

TheDoc

Hardly consider it disgraceful.

It would be obvious that there would need to be some very respectful negotiations to bring your rivals star player to your club. So there needs to be some tact.

Wenger has already commented publicly on United's bid and proceedings.

For me it just indicates that it is in the advanced stages.

And its actually more REFRESHING to hear a manager genuinely talk about their transfer targets then the usual ****e of how they can't talk about it etc etc.

PhlegmyMoses

keano_afc wrote: »

The comments from Ferguson are foolish at best.

"I dont understand why they're behaving this way". Really? You dont understand why the club dont want to sell their best player and club captain to a rival team? Have a think about it.

I think he's talking more about the fact that he's not really getting a Yes/No/Maybe, but we want this much answer from them.

Mitch Connor

DM-ICE wrote: »

If RVP is an issue for people as he could stop Welbeck and Hernandez getting game time (i know people have other concerns, price injury record but I am only wondering about the holding back Welbz, Chica right now)

why is a midfielder okay? After all a new player in midfield will stop Cleverley and Anderson getting game time.

Its a bit of an inconsistency imo - I understand the other concerns but not the holding back other players one.

for what its worth I want more proven quality in both positions. But for the way SAF plays, a proven goalscorer to help Rooney is probably more important to him now one is on the 'market'.

He doesn't seem worried by midfield at all at this stage so I dont see a midfield player coming in regardless of how the RVP persuit works out. Which is a disappointment.

For me, it is different.

If Kagawa is to be played off the front man, as he should be, then we already have 4 forwards senior forwards expected to be at the club in September - Rooney, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa. We can trust all of them to be fit for most of the season. Signing RVP makes it 5, pushes Kagawa to a less useful position and limits game time for Welbeck and Hernandez.

Carrick is, imo, the only central midfielder at United that I would trust over the course of the season. Scholes and Giggs will be fitness/stamina concerns over the entire season, with appearances needing to be managed carefully (imo). Anderson and Cleverley haven't been able to string together 6 good performances for United be it though lack of consistency or injury. Yes, signing a top CM would limit their chances, but Anderson has had 4 years of missed chances already and Cleverley is a fitness worry himself.

If we could trust Cleverley and Anderson to actually perform over a season, and remain relatively fit, than my calls for a new CM would die down quite a lot, as I think those two and Carrick along with Giggs, Scholes and Jones (and maybe Tunnicliffe and Petrucci) is absolutely fine.

The issue, for me, is I can't trust either of them.

Have no idea what is going to happen with Fletcher.

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

Was Ferguson any different when he refused Heinze to Liverpool

Yes, we rejected the Liverpool bid. Arsenal have seemingly left United waiting for any concrete answer at all.

Blatter

bullvine wrote: »

Was Ferguson any different when he refused Heinze to Liverpool

Nah Ferguson was very straight about it. He said outright that he would not be selling Gabriel Henize to Liverpool.

It seems to me that Wenger is reluctant to say that because if it came down to selling RVP to United for £20-25m or losing him on a free next year, he would want the money.

Pj!

keano_afc wrote: »

The comments from Ferguson are foolish at best.

"I dont understand why they're behaving this way". Really? You dont understand why the club dont want to sell their best player and club captain to a rival team? Have a think about it.

Some amount of experts in here.

Fergie knows what he's doing.

Fenix

I know you're probably just fishing but whatever.

It's obvious he was asked about the situation regarding RVP, it's not as if he's come out and said "oh have you heard the latest about this transfer?".

Add to that, this is Arsenals tactics of making our interest in RVP public in a bid to get a City or Juve to come in with more money and wipe our eye. Unfortunalty for them it would seem he wants utd, so that's really backfired for arsenal.

I suggest you go back to the liverpool thread and have a chat about Joe Allen, instead of coming in here to label one of the greatest managers the game had ever seen 'an absolute disgrace'.

Mitch Connor

Fenix wrote: »

I know you're probably just fishing but whatever.

It's obvious he was asked about the situation regarding RVP, it's not as if he's come out and said "oh have you heard the latest about this transfer?".

Add to that, this is Arsenals tactics of making our interest in RVP public in a bid to get a City or Juve to come in with more money and wipe our eye. Unfortunalty for them it would seem he wants utd, so that's really backfired for arsenal.

I suggest you go back to the liverpool thread and have a chat about Joe Allen, instead of coming in here to label one of the greatest managers the game had ever seen 'an absolute disgrace'.

Being a top manager doesn't and shouldn't make him immune from criticism. Fergie can be a disgrace at times, especially with the media.

He is an excellent football manger, and has many great qualities and has done great things in and around the game, he has also been a bellend on more than one occassion, though i would not agree this situation is one of those.

If Fergie came out of nowhere and started talking about RVP it would be a disgrace imo. The mitigating factor, for me, is that Arsenal seemed to want the United interest and bid public, so I see no reason Fergie shold keep his mouth shut on it - they showed United no respect themselves.

donalg1

I reckon Fergie has been trying to get RVP for a while now and has got p1ssed off with Arsenal flapping about over it so has made public the fact they have made another bid and has said what he did about Arsenal stalling in an effort to force them to make their minds up one way or another.

At least if they came out and said there is no chance of us selling RVP to Utd then Fergie could move on and look elsewhere but their indecision is leaving Utd somewhat in Limbo and with time running out in the transfer window thats not a good thing.

Also then there is the fact that if it is confirmed by Utd that they want to sign him then RVP may be able to force Arsenals hand a bit more publicly too.

Jame Gumb

DM-ICE wrote: »

If RVP is an issue for people as he could stop Welbeck and Hernandez getting game time (i know people have other concerns, price injury record but I am only wondering about the holding back Welbz, Chica right now)

why is a midfielder okay? After all a new player in midfield will stop Cleverley and Anderson getting game time.

Its a bit of an inconsistency imo.

Because as things stand, Rooney and Kagawa would probably be the front two in matches against tougher opposition, with Wellbeck and Chicharito featuring regularly against mid-tier and weaker opposition.

Bringing in a world class midfielder would just push the guys you've mentioned out for the "big" games and make us less reliant on them (in other words put them in the same position as the two young strikers).

I think a major part of it may also be that people are of the view that Wellbeck and Chicharito are better players and better prospects than Cleverley and Anderson.

Personally I think that Cleverley has potential but to date we've seen only glimpses of anything special. As for Anderson, I am not a fan at all.

Fenix

I'm not saying he is immune to critism, I've done it plenty of times myself, indeed many are questioning his aparent lack of interesting in signing a midfielder where one is clearly needed.

However, to label him a disgrace for giving an honest answer when the other team were there ones who made utd's interest public (for thier own financial/competitive gain), is, in my opinion, out of order.

Jame Gumb

It's becoming a bit of a stretch to call Anderson a "young player".

He'll be 25 this season.

Time for him to "sh1t or get off the pot" career wise in my view.

DM_7

SAF is cute, he is playing a game with those comments. I wouldn't be impressed if I was an Arsenal fan. He looks to be using the situation to put pressure on Arsenal to get a move on.

I don''t think he would have said anything if Arsenal didn't publicly talk about the transfer first.

homerjay2005

this rvp transfer reminds me of Berba saga all over. this will run for a while maybe, but i think we will get him.

IamtheWalrus

The RVP transfer reminds me of the Dwight Yorke move. The club will hum and ha but eventually the player will sign. Just a matter of time. Utd will probably have to pay a bit more though.

IamtheWalrus

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this rvp transfer reminds me of Berba saga all over. this will run for a while maybe, but i think we will get him.

Great minds

DM_7

Jame Gumb wrote: »

Because as things stand, Rooney and Kagawa would probably be the front two in matches against tougher opposition, with Wellbeck and Chicharito featuring regularly against mid-tier and weaker opposition.

Bringing in a world class midfielder would just push the guys you've mentioned out for the "big" games and make us less reliant on them (in other words put them in the same position as the two young strikers).

I think a major part of it may also be that people are of the view that Wellbeck and Chicharito are better players and better prospects than Cleverley and Anderson.

Personally I think that Cleverley has potential but to date we've seen only glimpses of anything special. As for Anderson, I am not a fan at all.

United are not reliant on Clev and Anderson right now though (well in SAF mind. We still have Giggs and Scholes. So buying a midfielder pushes them even further down the rankings so I think its still comparable and an inconsistency.

It also impacts on Powell, Petrucci, Lingard, Tunnicliffe. United already lost Pogba in your opinion because he wasn't played. What will happen with those lads and Cleverley if they don't get game time?

as I said already I actually want a midfielder myself. But I don't see any real substance to the RVP is bad for our squad players but a new midfielder is fine for out midfield squad players idea.

its only a small thing, thanks for answering anyway :-)

Copper_pipe

Lucas' agent- "Everything was agreed between Sao Paulo and Manchester United,"
Ribeiro told UOL.
"The contract had been written and just needed to be signed. But then Leonardo called me and asked to talk
to Lucas.
"They talked. Leonardo was helped by the fact he is Brazilian. He was very
gentle with Lucas.
"The possibility of living in Paris - a much more pleasant city than Manchester - also influenced his decision. But it was PSG's project that impressed Lucas."

Fenix

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Lucas' agent- "Everything was agreed between Sao Paulo and Manchester United,"
Ribeiro told UOL.
"The contract had been written and just needed to be signed. But then Leonardo called me and asked to talk
to Lucas.
"They talked. Leonardo was helped by the fact he is Brazilian. He was very
gentle with Lucas.
"The possibility of living in Paris - a much more pleasant city than Manchester - also influenced his decision. But it was PSG's project that impressed Lucas."

Yup, that and a ****load of dollar bills.

Jame Gumb

What's Wenger's problem?

We sold Silvestre to them...why are they so reluctant to sell Van Persie to us?

Lord TSC

Is "project" French for "huge amounts of cash" then?

FutureGuy

Fenix wrote: »

Yup, that and a ****load of dollar bills.

haha just saying to one of the lads that this is the new catchphrase for the money grabbers this summer and over the last few seasons.

All very impressed with "the project" lol. I love projects! They must be brilliant at such clubs!

FutureGuy

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Lucas' agent- "Everything was agreed between Sao Paulo and Manchester United,"
Ribeiro told UOL.
"The contract had been written and just needed to be signed. But then Leonardo called me and asked to talk
to Lucas.
"They talked. Leonardo was helped by the fact he is Brazilian. He was very
gentle with Lucas.
"The possibility of living in Paris - a much more pleasant city than Manchester - also influenced his decision. But it was PSG's project that impressed Lucas."

That is hilarious horsesh!t.

Schism

Jame Gumb wrote: »

What's Wenger's problem?

We sold Silvestre to them...why are they so reluctant to sell Van Persie to us?

More like we offloaded Silvestre on them.

keane2097

Why should he not want to move to a city like Paris to play with Lavezzi, Pastore, Menez, Ibrahimovic, Thiago Silva, work with a Brazilian legend like Leonardo ahead of rainy Manchester to play for a team that didn't get out of the group of the ECL last year, won fcuk all, with a less exciting squad and looking to be on a downward curve?

The level of hubris about a sh!thole city that none of ye are even from is very aggravating at times.

Jame Gumb

Schism wrote: »

Jame Gumb wrote: »

What's Wenger's problem?

We sold Silvestre to them...why are they so reluctant to sell Van Persie to us?

More like we offloaded Silvestre on them.

Twas said with tongue firmly in cheek...

donalg1

^^^^^^^^ Just saw this above.

Jame Gumb wrote: »

What's Wenger's problem?

We sold Silvestre to them...why are they so reluctant to sell Van Persie to us?

Because Van Persie is their best player and well Silvestre wasnt Utd's best player. And you cant sell your best players to your rivals and then expect to compete with them.

Could you see a problem with say Man City selling Adam Johnson to Utd and then trying to buy Rooney, with some City fan saying sure we sold you Johnson so whats Fergie got against selling Rooney to us.

PhlegmyMoses

keane2097 wrote: »

Why should he not want to move to a city like Paris to play with Lavezzi, Pastore, Menez, Ibrahimovic, Thiago Silva, work with a Brazilian legend like Leonardo ahead of rainy Manchester to play for a team that didn't get out of the group of the ECL last year, won fcuk all, with a less exciting squad and looking to be on a downward curve?

The level of hubris about a sh!thole city that none of ye are even from is very aggravating at times.

If you are going to complain about a lack of balance, you should probably write a balanced post.

I get the gist of your post and agree with it generally. But there are plenty of reasons why players would like to move to United over PSG.

SlickRic

Wenger hasn't given an answer yet because he's weighing up taking the money now over losing VP next year for free.

it really is quite simple.

and Wenger's entitled to take a while; it's a fúcking big decision.

and Ferguson knows this, he's just acting a bit of the díck to try and put some pressure on is all.

he should still probably keep quiet, but Arsenal did start it by making the clubs bidding for VP public.

Schism

Jame Gumb wrote: »

Twas said with tongue firmly in cheek...

Ah, I'm still asleep I think!

keane2097

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If you are going to complain about a lack of balance, you should probably write a balanced post.

I get the gist of your post and agree with it generally. But there are plenty of reasons why players would like to move to United over PSG.

I was lampooning a style of post using the medium of that style of post. Of course there are plenty reasons to choose United, but there are an enormous number of ways in which Paris and PSG would be more attractive to a vast range of people.

The hes-only-going-for-the-money stuff is literally the most insular, small-minded, ignorant garbage that gets a regular airing on this forum.

Sgt Pepper 64

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If you are going to complain about a lack of balance, you should probably write a balanced post.

I get the gist of your post and agree with it generally. But there are plenty of reasons why players would like to move to United over PSG.

Pastore chose PSG over Chelsea, so the city thing doesnt stand up.
Agents play a big part in this malarky. And even Chelsea have some standards as to the fee we will pay, hence no Pastore, no Hulk etc
Pastore trotted out some lame excuse about less pressure I seem to remember, but in the end we got used, like you to drive up the players price.
Didnt hurt us in the end and losing Lucas wont really hurt Utd either I expect.

keane2097

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Pastore chose PSG over Chelsea, so the city thing doesnt stand up.

lol, or maybe Paris is just nicer than London OR Manchester?

dahat

Lucas at 45 million,Neymar must be worth 60 plus on that valuation

homerjay2005

people really underestimate just how much of a s*it hole north west england is. unless you are offered an outrageous sum of money, which united have never done even with or without glazers, players are just not going to be interested in moving there.


its a definate reason united have rarely signed a global superstar.

Julez

dahat wrote: »

Lucas at 45 million,Neymar must be worth 60 plus on that valuation

In my opinion he will go for at least that, no way it will be less than 60m I'd imagine.

Blatter

Well the one major draw back about moving to PSG is that Ligue 1 won't be competitive in the slightest. It'll probably become the most one sided league in Europe over the next several years unless another French club is bought by some Sheikh or oil tycoon.

Other than that I'd agree that they're currently a very attractive proposition for the vast majority of players.

Fenix

homerjay2005 wrote: »

people really underestimate just how much of a s*it hole north west england is. unless you are offered an outrageous sum of money, which united have never done even with or without glazers, players are just not going to be interested in moving there.


its a definate reason united have rarely signed a global superstar.

Sorry Homer, If that's the case and Manchester is such a ****hole, how are City getting the players? Oh yea, they have a very good 'project' going as well.

Money talks. Your global superstars would play in ****in ballina (no offense lads )if they were gettin ridiculous wages.

Blatter

Fenix wrote: »

Sorry Homer, If that's the case and Manchester is such a ****hole, how are City getting the players? Oh yea, they have a very good 'project' going as well.

Money talks. Your global superstars would play in ****in ballina (no offense lads )if they were gettin ridiculous wages.

Because City offer outrageous money, that was Homer's point in fairness.

jaykay74

Fenix wrote: »

Sorry Homer, If that's the case and Manchester is such a ****hole, how are City getting the players? Oh yea, they have a very good 'project' going as well.

Money talks. Your global superstars would play in ****in ballina (no offense lads )if they were gettin ridiculous wages.

Hamer said unless you are offered an outrageous sum of money and clearly city do...

Donnielighto

Fenix wrote: »

homerjay2005 wrote: »

people really underestimate just how much of a s*it hole north west england is. unless you are offered an outrageous sum of money, which united have never done even with or without glazers, players are just not going to be interested in moving there.


its a definate reason united have rarely signed a global superstar.

Sorry Homer, If that's the case and Manchester is such a ****hole, how are City getting the players? Oh yea, they have a very good 'project' going as well.

Money talks. Your global superstars would play in ****in ballina (no offense lads )if they were gettin ridiculous wages.

Pretty sure you missed his point entirely.

aperture_nuig

Blatter wrote: »

Well the one major draw back about moving to PSG is that Ligue 1 won't be competitive in the slightest. It'll probably become the most one sided league in Europe over the next several years unless another French club is bought by some Sheikh or oil tycoon.

Other than that I'd agree that they're currently a very attractive proposition for the vast majority of players.

Dunno, scottish league isn't looking the most competitive either!

Jame Gumb

If a player has no natural affinity to Manchester United, the weather and the city definitely work against us. It just isn't a nice place compared to London, Paris, Barcelona, Milan or Madrid.

Money's obviously an important part of it, but it's not unreasonable for Moura to claim to be impressed by PSG's project. Presumably the Qataris' aim is to be champions of Europe within X years? And they're backing it up with truckloads of cash and a massively respected coach. If United and PSG were offering the same salary, I wouldn't blame someone for choosing PSG. One club clearly on an strong upward trajectory, the other facing a degree of uncertainty (challenge of City, debt, Fergie's inevitable departure, etc).