Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

G.K.

supersean1999

- What do you think he thinks? :pac:

Kylo Ren

G.K. wrote: »

supersean1999

- What do you think he thinks? :pac:

We're not all bad!

homerjay2005

linked to Alba this morning, another lB.

i just hope, that its a smokescreen to give Evra a kick up the arse and we wont sign a LB. i think there is one more signing (around 15-20million) in it for us apart from Clyne. if its a LB, we are in big trouble next year again.

Mitch Connor

Have decided I don't want United to sign a defensive midfielder. No Tiote or similar.

I reckon that is the position Jones is likely to mature and play best in (can't see him as a CB) so we should give him that role.

Still sign a central midfielder, but a more offensively minded one, like Modric.

recyclebin

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Lads are back now so.

Nani is still there. The sole United rep left at Euro 2012.

Silva is probably the only other premier league player left that will also get game time.

niallo27

recyclebin wrote: »

Nani is still there. The sole United rep left at Euro 2012.

Silva is probably the only other premier league player left that will also get game time.

What about mario

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Have decided I don't want United to sign a defensive midfielder. No Tiote or similar.

I reckon that is the position Jones is likely to mature and play best in (can't see him as a CB) so we should give him that role.

Still sign a central midfielder, but a more offensively minded one, like Modric.

Jones is pretty poor positionally, and hasnt really good a good read of the game, suprisingly enough, I would have thought he would considering the money spent on him.

Has a lot to learn/develop before he could be a stable DM.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Jones is pretty poor positionally, and hasnt really good a good read of the game, suprisingly enough, I would have thought he would considering the money spent on him.

Has a lot to learn/develop before he could be a stable DM.

Less to learn than a stable/top CB.

I'm not saying he will be Makalele by the end of the season, not that type of player. I do think he could be a very good option for us in a midfield 3.

---

Jones--Carrick
Valencia-Kagawa---Nani

---

Rooney

I think that would be very good against most teams. Carrick to sit a bit deep, connecting defence to midfield and the wings. Kagawa linking midfield to the attack and wings. Jones would have a somewhat free defensive role, playing a role similar to what Fletcher did for us - get in amongst the opposition and put his foot in. his rampaging runs from deep would still be effective but not leave us defensively weak to counter attacks as his runs from centre back do.

I certainly think we have a better chance of seeing him develop into a top player as a box to box midfielder (with emphasis on the defensive side) than we do at CB or RB. I think he could be effective in this role like Tiote.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Have decided I don't want United to sign a defensive midfielder. No Tiote or similar.

I reckon that is the position Jones is likely to mature and play best in (can't see him as a CB) so we should give him that role.

Still sign a central midfielder, but a more offensively minded one, like Modric.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Less to learn than a stable/top CB.

I'm not saying he will be Makalele by the end of the season, not that type of player. I do think he could be a very good option for us in a midfield 3.

---

Jones--Carrick
Valencia-Kagawa---Nani

---

Rooney

I think that would be very good against most teams. Carrick to sit a bit deep, connecting defence to midfield and the wings. Kagawa linking midfield to the attack and wings. Jones would have a somewhat free defensive role, playing a role similar to what Fletcher did for us - get in amongst the opposition and put his foot in. his rampaging runs from deep would still be effective but not leave us defensively weak to counter attacks as his runs from centre back do.

I certainly think we have a better chance of seeing him develop into a top player as a box to box midfielder (with emphasis on the defensive side) than we do at CB or RB. I think he could be effective in this role like Tiote.

This is what I said few months back.

Giggsy11, Jan5th 2012 wrote:

Ever since Jones few games as CM, I believed that's his position. I was never impressed with him as CB except in England U21 games. He needs a lot to learn, his over enthusiasm is a boon to play as CM and bane to play as CB. He was at fault for all 3 goals. I know even great players had bad days but like I said I dont see Jones as a CB. I see him more as a box to box midfielder. SAF couldn't do anything though as we didn't have any fit CBs. But once Evans is back hopefully Jones will be moved to CM or RB.

Giggsy11, March 9, 2012 wrote:

We are messing up with Jones though. Injuries are not helping us but we have to stick Jones to one position and play him there. At the start of the season he looked natural in every position, now he looks so confused in every position. IMO he would make a good box to box midfielder, but he should be played with someone like Carrick.

Giggsy11, Dec 18, 2011 wrote:

If we sign Rodwell then surely we wont be seeing Jones in Midfield in the future. I know many/few disagree but IMO Jones has a bright future as a box to box midfielder.

Giggsy11, 2012 wrote:

I dont think Jones can play as CB (I mean playing well). He should be played as a RB or Box to box CM.

He has great energy and made some very good runs, but still he lacks touch, awareness to play regularly as a CM, but with more games under his belt in that position surely he can improve on that part.

Orando Broom

Ferguson does not play a defenasive midfielder though. Jones is not classy enough for midfield in my opinion. I think United need a continental schooled player in the position. He should stick with centre back and nail down the position.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Less to learn than a stable/top CB.

I'm not saying he will be Makalele by the end of the season, not that type of player. I do think he could be a very good option for us in a midfield 3.

---

Jones--Carrick
Valencia-Kagawa---Nani

---

Rooney

I think that would be very good against most teams. Carrick to sit a bit deep, connecting defence to midfield and the wings. Kagawa linking midfield to the attack and wings. Jones would have a somewhat free defensive role, playing a role similar to what Fletcher did for us - get in amongst the opposition and put his foot in. his rampaging runs from deep would still be effective but not leave us defensively weak to counter attacks as his runs from centre back do.

I certainly think we have a better chance of seeing him develop into a top player as a box to box midfielder (with emphasis on the defensive side) than we do at CB or RB. I think he could be effective in this role like Tiote.

Ugh my post got deleted as the tab closed.

In short, Cleverly was a topic for a few pages back, interestingly not in your lineup?

What's your thoughts on Cleverly?
Do people see him maybe as a Carrick replacement, or could Jones fill that roll? Defensive Marshall that can distribute the ball.

Alot will depend where SAF deploys Kagiwa, but if he goes through the middle either a striker or a CM is being sacrificed.

But if recent CL campaigns and the Euros have demonstrated, teams deploying 4-2-3-1 are having alot more success then conventional 4-4-2.

I think we need to work it back into our league campaign. The season where we pretty much ran 4-3-3 with Ronaldo on fire was a devastating season, that won us the CL and PL. And I cant remember seeing us play such expansive fluid football in the final third for a long time.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Ugh my post got deleted as the tab closed.

In short, Cleverly was a topic for a few pages back, interestingly not in your lineup?

What's your thoughts on Cleverly?
Do people see him maybe as a Carrick replacement, or could Jones fill that roll? Defensive Marshall that can distribute the ball.

Alot will depend where SAF deploys Kagiwa, but if he goes through the middle either a striker or a CM is being sacrificed.

But if recent CL campaigns and the Euros have demonstrated, teams deploying 4-2-3-1 are having alot more success then conventional 4-4-2.

I think we need to work it back into our league campaign. The season where we pretty much ran 4-3-3 with Ronaldo on fire was a devastating season, that won us the CL and PL. And I cant remember seeing us play such expansive fluid football in the final third for a long time.

I do like Cleverley - think he could be a very good player for us. If he could stay fit I think he would reduce our need to sign a player like Modric.

In terms of the formation above - Jones and Carrick behind the front 4 would be the more defensive variant, with Carrick and Cleverley being the attacking one. Different partnerships for different games and needs. Cleverley would 'abandon' Carrick more than Jones would from a defensive standpoint so would, for me, be used more in home games and games where we expect to have difficulty breaking the opposition down. Jones would be played where we have an expectation of difficulty in breaking the opposition up.

Jones and Cleverley would obviously, imo, be an option when resting Carrick too.

based on my complete lack of trust in Anderson or Fletcher, I would still think we need a central midfield signing.

If we could trust Cleverley and Anderson over a season, I do think that Carrick, Cleverley, Jones and Anderson could be a good group of 4 to pick 2 from, supporting a front 4 taken from Valencia, Nani, Young, Rooney, Kagawa, Welbeck and Hernandez. If we had to sign a central midfielder to make up (or add to) that group of 4, I would love someone like Sahin, Cabaye, Modric - not a Tiote type player.

EDIT: On Kagawa, I really hope we are buying him to play in Rooney's current position. Firstly I don't think Rooney is as good a 10 as some people think and I think United would be better served with him as our number 9. If you really want, play him as a false 9 like Messi for Barcelona, but just don't play him as the 10. Our best bet, imo, is Kagawa in the 10 position with Rooney up top - Rooney can drop deep (but not into midfield/defence area) with the likes of Kagawa, Valencia and Nani supporting and running past him. If we look to play Kagawa elsewhere, we should have signed someone else. I hope we don't 'Anderson' him and try to turn him into a player he is not.

Blatter

Totally disagree with the notion that Jones will settle down as a midfielder. I'll bet any money that it just simply won't happen. It'd be a complete waste as he just doesn't have the ball skills and first touch to ever become a top class CM.

He does have the attributes to become a top class CB, as he has shown for Blackburn (why do people constantly ignore his performances at CB for them, at the age of 18, that led to so many clubs chasing him?) and early on in his United career.

He is only gone 20, to hold the opinion that he isn't cut out to become a quality CB is ridiculous imo.

Mitch Connor

Blatter wrote: »

Totally disagree with the notion that Jones will settle down as a midfielder. I'll bet any money that it just simply won't happen. It'd be a complete waste as he just doesn't have the ball skills and first touch to ever become a top class CM.

He does have the attributes to become a top class CB, as he has shown for Blackburn (why do people constantly ignore his performances at CB for them, at the age of 18, that led to so many clubs chasing him?) and early on in his United career.

He is only gone 20, to hold the opinion that he isn't cut out to become a quality CB is ridiculous imo.

He has never impressed me as a CB. He has been a poor mans John Terry in that role imo. Some wonderful tackles masking terrible positioning and brainless ball chasing, leaving space in behind to be exploited.

Hopefully he can iron that out and learn when to stick to position and when to go, but he has a long way to go.

Orando Broom

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He has never impressed me as a CB. He has been a poor mans John Terry in that role imo. Some wonderful tackles masking terrible positioning and brainless ball chasing, leaving space in behind to be exploited.

Hopefully he can iron that out and learn when to stick to position and when to go, but he has a long way to go.

He has a good three or four years before he settles into the position. Centre Back is one of the hardest positions to master. It does take years. Look at Jonny Evans, he is only now emerging as a top quality Centre Back after years of decidedly average performances, punctuated by a couple of good games.

Two years ago, in fact one year ago, if Jonny Evans was sold on I'd not have batted an eyelid. Now...

Jones needs time but he is no midfielder, certainly not the type United want.

Fenix

I pretty much agree with Blatter, however I think a lot of fans have taken certain games from last season where here performed badly at CB, and arrived at the opinion he will never be able to play there. Maybe they see the fix as throwing him in to def mid to see if that works.

As previously stated, the lad is only turned 20, give him a chance at CB where he has shown in the past he has potential to be awesome.

Always enjoy mates or lads down the pub who arent utd fans completely write him off as pure ****e. I make a little mental note of who they are and where they live

keane2097

Are the people who are complaining about writing Jones off as a CB while simultaneously writing him off as a DM taking the piss yeah?

Orando Broom

keane2097 wrote: »

Are the people who are complaining about writing Jones off as a CB while simultaneously writing him off as a DM taking the piss yeah?

Elaborate? Last time I checked they were two different positions requiring two different skillsets.

DM_7

When you consider Jones you can't ignore his age.
His age is a major reason why he gets caught out of position. I agree that it to soon to say he won't ever be a good CB.

I do think he will find it difficult to nail down a starting place in that position with Smalling and Evans improving all the time while Rio around plus Vidic returning from injury.

His best chance of getting in the team could well be in midfield. He can and probably will improve his ability to take and play the ball around. All he does is play football, I see no reason why he couldn't improve his overall skill levels. For the moment I can see him playing centre mid before moving to defence when he gets a bit older.

When he improves his all round skills he will then be a better centre half. If United ever want him to become a player that can advance from defence with the ball a stint at central midfield would do him good. He does this naturally but he is very direct and doesn't have any finesse at the moment. Currently I think Evans is actually better at advancing with the ball than Jones, even though Jones will do it as an instinct.

keane2097

Orando Broom wrote: »

Elaborate? Last time I checked they were two different positions requiring two different skillsets.

No. I've made a pretty simple point, your inability to follow it makes me think trying to hold your hand through it would be borderline torturous. Try harder to understand.

HITMANHEALY

Do you think we should go for Di Rossi, i was impressed with his work rate, he's a player we could do with so sit at the back, something similiar to carrick, he can pass the ball also.

I think fergie will sign 1 more player, I was hoping it be modric but he looks like he may go to Real Madrid.

Orando Broom

keane2097 wrote: »

No. I've made a pretty simple point, your inability to follow it makes me think trying to hold your hand through it would be borderline torturous. Try harder to understand.

I see this is the new tack from you. At least it proves that I have and will continue to school you in any and all football debates.

The trite responses are nice.

keane2097

Orando Broom wrote: »

I see this is the new tack from you. At least it proves that I have and will continue to school you in any and all football debates.

The trite responses are nice.

lol, how long have you been around?

Orando Broom

keane2097 wrote: »

lol, how long have you been around?

Explain the relevance of your question?

keane2097

Orando Broom wrote: »

Explain the relevance of your question?

You're an odd chap. I'd bet you're too old to be picking fights on the internet.

Blatter

keane2097 wrote: »

Are the people who are complaining about writing Jones off as a CB while simultaneously writing him off as a DM taking the piss yeah?

Nope, pretty simple really.

Jones doesn't have the potential to be a top class CM from what I've seen of him there.

Jones does have the potential to be a top class CB from what I've seen of him there (particularly with Blackburn, and early on in his United career)

keane2097

Blatter wrote: »

Nope, pretty simple really.

Jones doesn't have the potential to be a top class CM from what I've seen of him there.

Jones does have the potential to be a top class CB from what I've seen of him there (particularly with Blackburn, and early on in his United career)

Seems pretty dumb to think you can apply the below line to CB while in the same breath ignoring it for DM. He's put in better performances at DM for United than any other position, and it's not close.

Blatter wrote: »

He is only gone 20, to hold the opinion that he isn't cut out to become a quality CB is ridiculous imo.

Blatter

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He has never impressed me as a CB. He has been a poor mans John Terry in that role imo. Some wonderful tackles masking terrible positioning and brainless ball chasing, leaving space in behind to be exploited.

Hopefully he can iron that out and learn when to stick to position and when to go, but he has a long way to go.

Well he obviously impressed Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham and United with his performances at CB for Blackburn, otherwise all of those clubs would've been unlikely to have been willing to splash so much money on him?

Orando Broom

keane2097 wrote: »

You're an odd chap. I'd bet you're too old to be picking fights on the internet.

How so? How am I 'odd'? How have you reached this conclusion? It seems strange to be making suppositions based on a soccer website but sure there you go. I suppose some people have a less developed frame of reference than others.

keane2097

Blatter wrote: »

Well he obviously impressed Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham and United with his performances at CB for Blackburn, otherwise all of those clubs would've been unlikely to have been willing to splash so much money on him?

How do you know they didn't want to sign him to play DM?

keane2097

Orando Broom wrote: »

How so? How am I 'odd'? How have you reached this conclusion? It seems strange to be making suppositions based on a soccer website but sure there you go. I suppose some people have a less developed frame of reference than others.

You are a weird dude.

Giggsy11

Tbh, Jones didn't play as DM for us, against Liverpool Fletcher played that role and Jones was the most attacking midfielder making runs to the box, even against Villa and QPR he played as CM making forward funs. Never as a DM.

Even for England against Spain, he didn't play as DM.

adox

Jones had some fantastic games for Blackburn at CB and also for Utd early in the season, as well as RB when required.

His form certainly fell off a cliff in the second half of the season and tbh he was awful in whatever position he played. He looked like a duck out of water who had never played in the Premier league before.

CB is his best position imo, followed by RB and lastly in MF. I certainly see his future at Utd as a CB.

It is easy to forget how impressive he was for Utd when he first arrived and also his time at Blackburn, because of how awful he was post Christmas.

keane2097

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Tbh, Jones didn't play as DM for us, against Liverpool Fletcher played that role and Jones was the most attacking midfielder making runs to the box, even against Villa and QPR he played as CM making forward funs. Never as a DM.

Even for England against Spain, he didn't play as DM.

Yeah actually agree with this just saw DM used already and followed on, he played some class games as a box to box MF.

Blatter

keane2097 wrote: »

Seems pretty dumb to think you can apply the below line to CB while in the same breath ignoring it for DM. He's put in better performances at DM for United than any other position, and it's not close.

Nope, totally disagree that he put in better performances with United at DM rather than CB. His first few appearances for United at CB, were his best performances for the club followed closely by a few very good performances at right back. But I am counting his performances at CB for Blackburn as well, where I remember him having a few excellent games. A standout performances being his one against United at Ewood.

At CM, I remember him playing well (without setting the world alight) against Wolves, QPR and Villa. Any other time I've seen him play there I recall him being pretty average.


At 20, it's highly unlikely he will develop the touch and ball skills required to be a top class CM. That is something that is largely developed at underage levels, not something that you just acquire all of a sudden and develop it to a world class standard. Yeah, maybe he could get to someone like Parker's level by playing there regularly, but who wants that? As I said, a complete and utter waste when he has the skill set to become a top class CB.

Orando Broom

keane2097 wrote: »

You are a weird dude.

Care to explain?

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

He's put in better performances at DM for United than any other position, and it's not close.

What? When, exactly, did this happen?

The only half decent performances he put in were at the start of the season when he was at RB, when were all these good performances at midfield?

Blatter

keane2097 wrote: »

How do you know they didn't want to sign him to play DM?

An educated guess.

His best performances for Blackburn came at CB, a position that he played at underage levels. It was well known Arsenal and Liverpool wanted a centre half at the time. And here's Redknapp talking about him, saying that he tried to sign him and believes he'll go onto be an England centre half and captain.

They hardly would have signed him to play him in CM.

keane2097

Blatter wrote: »

Nope, totally disagree that he put in better performances with United at DM rather than CB. His first few appearances for United at CB, were his best performances for the club followed closely by a few very good performances at right back. But I am counting his performances at CB for Blackburn as well, where I remember him having a few excellent games. A standout performances being his one against United at Ewood.

At CM, I remember him playing well (without setting the world alight) against Wolves, Blackburn and Villa. Any other time I've seen him play there I recall him being pretty average.

At 20, it's highly unlikely he will develop the touch and ball skills required to be a top class CM. That is something that is largely developed at underage levels, not something that you just acquire all of a sudden and develop it to a world class standard. Yeah, maybe he could get to someone like Parker's level by playing there regularly, but who wants that? As I said, a complete and utter waste when he has the skill set to become a top class CB.

The last paragraph is the whole point here. What are you basing the idea that CB skills can be learned now while MF skills it's too late for? Seems like a load of shite made up to suit the idea that he can improve in one position and not the other.

Ronaldo's touch and ball skills sure improved from when he first joined the club, Schweinsteiger developed massively throughout his early twenties, Carrick does alright despite having a pretty awful touch regardless.

Are there actually coaching reports or anything at all that suggests a player's touch at 20 is as good as it's ever going to get? Think you've made that up. Players improve massively in all sorts of ways in their early careers from what I can see, deciding there's a constraint on the possibility that he will improve his ball skills seems no more sensible than putting a constraint on his positioning other than to suit a particular argument.

keane2097

Orando Broom wrote: »

Care to explain?

You are a pedant who pretends not to follow simple trains of thought in the hope that an extended explanation will contain extraneous and/or immaterial errors which you can then nitpick through in agonising detail in order to stymie the other party into ever more basic and tortured explanations of points you should have and hopefully did understand in the first place.

You are more interested in winning arguments than being right.

You are a weird dude.

Orando Broom

keane2097 wrote: »

You are a pedant who pretends not to follow simple trains of thought in the hope that an extended explanation will contain extraneous and/or immaterial errors which you can then nitpick through in agonising detail in order to stymie the other party into ever more basic and tortured explanations of points you should have and hopefully did understand in the first place.

You are more interested in winning arguments than being right.

You are a weird dude.

Firstly not true. I asked you for a detailed explanation because I know for a fact, and it was subsequently proven that you did not know what you were talking about. Jones as a DM. Conclusively proven that he has not played the position. You supposition was inherently flawed from the start.

I always understand the points raised here I ask you to elaborate becuase I beleive that simplistic, generic one line answers do not sufficently flesh out an argument.

Winning the argument means I am right.

I am a weird dude because I like to debate rather than be cowed by a hectoring bully like yourself. Good stuff. I am glad that I am a weird dude.

by the way Jones could not succeed as a midfielder because if you look at how the game is evolving tackling is practically dying out. THe booking the Italian got on the Ashlwey Young tackle last night is proof of that. It is no longer a skill that is vital. Ball retention is. The ability of a midfielder to be to turn on the ball is critical. a centre back would be coached, especially in England not to turn on the ball.

Look at Pirlo how he skinned Scott Parker by merely rolling the ball under his foot. Parker did a 360 loop around a stationary Pirlo. Jones is more closely related to Parker than Pirlo hence the last thing United need.

Jones has an engine, he is a rangey stong player but he lacks utterly the ability to contain and retain a ball within a yard square space and he has not got a change of gears that even the aged Pirlo had. Several times last night Pirlo ghosted beyond his marker with a five yard burst. Jones runs differently to that. Jones in many ways has similar physical attributes to Yaya Touré. He does not have a goal threat in his game. Jones would be a very limited midfielder because he does not have the close control or movement to play as a deep lying midfielder and he lacks a goal threat to be an attacking midfielder. In certain circumstances absolutely he could be deployed as a box to box harrasser but no more. Certainly if united harobur any ambition of challanging for Europe and even agaisn tCity a better calibre of player will be required. Jones needs to work on his discipline in holding the line and not attacking every ball within 20 yards of the goal. That decision making element will come to his game and he will be a beast of a centre back.

Mitch Connor

Blatter wrote: »

Well he obviously impressed Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham and United with his performances at CB for Blackburn, otherwise all of those clubs would've been unlikely to have been willing to splash so much money on him?

He played the vast majority of his games for Blackburn in his final season there as a defensive midfielder.

keane2097

Orando Broom wrote: »

Jones as a DM. Conclusively proven that he has not played the position.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He played the vast majority of his games for Blackburn in his final season there as a defensive midfielder.

Orando Broom wrote: »

You supposition was inherently flawed from the start.

Hope this helps.

Orando Broom

keane2097 wrote: »

Hope this helps.

It doesn't. I am talking about United. You were too. But sure you know that.

Again whether ity is laziness or inability on your part the level of debate from you is poor.

kryogen

He has not played the DM role for United, I would think thats what the other chap was talking about. And he would be right, he has been a box to box midfielder when he has been in midfield.

He does not have the finesse to be a central midfielder for United imo, I don't think his first touch is good enough or his passing ability, he is not clever enough either, he could be a very good cb however, it is the position he has played since he was a kid, its what he sees himself as and its what Fergie ultimately sees him as.

He played the DM role for Blackburn a lot in his final season there, but he was not as good as when he played cb for them from what I remember, he is a natural centre back, he may be able to do a job in midifeld alright, same was Rio has on a couple of occasions, but he will never be comfortable there.

I thought of Jones for a midfielder for a long time, but I just dont see it after almost a full season of thinking about it. He could of course take a turn, prove me wrong and become a revelation in midifeld, I just doubt it.

Vidic is a top class centre half, but he is would not be a good midfielder, they are two very different skill sets and at the age of 20/21 having played centre back all the way up, and crucially, seeing his future at centre back, I just dont think Jones could up his technical ability enough to excel at the role.

Orando Broom

kryogen wrote: »

He has not played the DM role for United, I would think thats what the other chap was talking about. And he would be right, he has been a box to box midfielder when he has been in midfield.

He does not have the finesse to be a central midfielder for United imo, I don't think his first touch is good enough or his passing ability, he is not clever enough either, he could be a very good cb however, it is the position he has played since he was a kid, its what he sees himself as and its what Fergie ultimately sees him as.

He played the DM role for Blackburn a lot in his final season there, but he was not as good as when he played cb for them from what I remember, he is a natural centre back, he may be able to do a job in midifeld alright, same was Rio has on a couple of occasions, but he will never be comfortable there.

I thought of Jones for a midfielder for a long time, but I just dont see it after almost a full season of thinking about it. He could of course take a turn, prove me wrong and become a revelation in midifeld, I just doubt it.

Vidic is a top class centre half, but he is would not be a good midfielder, they are two very different skill sets and at the age of 20/21 having played centre back all the way up, and crucially, seeing his future at centre back, I just dont think Jones could up his technical ability enough to excel at the role.

Jones will be an absolutely brillinat centre half. I have no doubt about that. He just needs to work on his concentration and decision making and develop a cooler head. I think next season with Vidic back to full fitness and hopefully Rio back to consistant game time Jones could be blooded with one or the other. He has not really had the benefit of working alongside Vidic.

keane2097

Orando Broom wrote: »

It doesn't. I am talking about United. You were too. But sure you know that.

Again whether ity is laziness or inability on your part the level of debate from you is poor.

Orando Broom wrote: »

Conclusively proven that he has not played the position.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He played the vast majority of his games for Blackburn in his final season there as a defensive midfielder.

Orando Broom wrote: »

You supposition was inherently flawed from the start.

Orando Broom wrote: »

Conclusively proven that he has not played the position.

Orando Broom wrote: »

You supposition was inherently flawed from the start.

Hope this helps.

Blatter

keane2097 wrote: »

The last paragraph is the whole point here. What are you basing the idea that CB skills can be learned now while MF skills it's too late for? Seems like a load of shite made up to suit the idea that he can improve in one position and not the other.

Ronaldo's touch and ball skills sure improved from when he first joined the club, Schweinsteiger developed massively throughout his early twenties, Carrick does alright despite having a pretty awful touch regardless.

Are there actually coaching reports or anything at all that suggests a player's touch at 20 is as good as it's ever going to get? Think you've made that up. Players improve massively in all sorts of ways in their early careers from what I can see, deciding there's a constraint on the possibility that he will improve his ball skills seems no more sensible than putting a constraint on his positioning other than to suit a particular argument.

Ronaldo and Schweinsteiger had pretty neat skills and control from a young age, Jones doesn't. Obviously they have improved since, and I never said Jones couldn't improve in that regard. The point is that Jones will never improve enough to become a world class CM.

You're looking for proof? How about you name me one player that went on to be a world class CM despite not having good ball skills/first touch at 20?

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He played the vast majority of his games for Blackburn in his final season there as a defensive midfielder.

He was far more impressive when he played at CB and it was those performances that lead him to becoming so highly rated, not his performances in midfield. The fact that he showed he could plug a hole in midfield was nothing more than a bonus.

Listen to what he himself has to say on the matter from a BBC intervew last season.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15902770

keane2097

Blatter wrote: »

Ronaldo and Schweinsteiger had pretty neat skills and control from a young age, Jones doesn't. Obviously they have improved since, and I never said Jones couldn't improve in that regard. The point is that Jones will never improve enough to become a world class CM.

You're looking for proof? How about you name me one player that went on to be a world class CM despite not having good ball skills/first touch at 20?

Gattuso. What do I win?

kryogen

keane2097 wrote: »

Gattuso. What do I win?

I'd have to disagree with your choice.