Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I dont know how you say Fellaini and Dembele are not good enough for United and at the same time say we should sign someone like Veloso and Moutinho. Moutinho is decent player but I would take Fellaini and Dembele any day of the week rather than Moutinho and I wouldn't even think about Veloso.

Would love Fellaini.

Would add presence in midfield and be a great asset on set piece, defending and attacking. Underrated on the ball imo. If we got him and Baines off Everton and called it a day at that (with possible exception of tying up a deal for Henriquez) I'd be happy with the summer business of United.

Schism

Junior D wrote: »

I'm not saying they are the best in the world, but the best that United can hope for atm.

In that case we might as well just stick Anderson back in there. Surely United would / should be aiming higher.

Junior D

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I dont know how you say Fellaini and Dembele are not good enough for United and at the same time say we should sign someone like Veloso and Moutinho. Moutinho is decent player but I would take Fellaini and Dembele any day of the week rather than Moutinho and I wouldn't even think about Veloso.

Fellaini is very over-rated IMO. Dembele is a good player but I'd have my doubts about whether he could do a job at the highest level, somewhere like United.
Whereas Moutinho has done it consistently at a very high level over the last number of years. Also has vast European experience as well

Sgt Pepper 64

bullvine wrote: »

I dont agree about Moutinho/Veloso they would have been picked up by now, If they were that highly rated, they've been around awhile. Veloso nearly went to Bolton about 2 years ago.

I think your letting there performances at the Euros cloud your judgement!

Chelsea were after Moutinho, he is very highly rated. The problem is that you are dealing with Porto and their silly prices and ways of doing things

DM_7

Liam O wrote: »

If fergie is going to sign a CM run he'll do it regardless of signing Baines. There was 32m available for Hazard and that was in addition to the money for Kagawa. Fergie will still have at least 20 odd million for a midfielder after Baines is signed if he goes for him.

If this is the case then brilliant.

I think the worry is SAF talking about value all the time. If you have 12 million to spend on a position we already have good options in why not use it to make sure we get a player in a key position instead?

I undertsand, after the last few transfer windows why people would say screw value and forget about left back - lump the baines money in with the midfield budget and spend whatever it takes to get the right player(s) for that position.

Junior D

keane2097 wrote: »

It would be some indictment of the lies people tell about how much soccer they watch if United signed players as bad as Veloso or Moutinho and people thought it was a good thing.

I'm not claiming to be a huge football fan and watch every foreign game, but I do attempt to see as much as I can. And from what I've seen, they're very good players, and the type of midfielders I think United would need.

Schism wrote: »

In that case we might as well just stick Anderson back in there. Surely United would / should be aiming higher.

Obviously United do need better midfielders than the 2 I mentioned, but who would they be?
I honestly can't think of a top 10 center midfielder who'd want to join United

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Would love Fellaini.

Would add presence in midfield and be a great asset on set piece, defending and attacking. Underrated on the ball imo. If we got him and Baines off Everton and called it a day at that (with possible exception of tying up a deal for Henriquez) I'd be happy with the summer business of United.

Yeah Fellaini would be very good addition to the first team, I was not very much impressed with him and never rated him highly but after watching him for few years I was completely wrong about him. He adds everything we lack in the midfield.

I'm a big fan of Dembele too, love watching him play. Wouldn't mind taking risk on him if he is available anywhere near 10 million (Not related to Fellaini deal).

bullvine

Fellaini or Dembele could grow into great players at Old Trafford, they have plenty of potential.

Did anybody see the quotes from Ferdinand about the Euros, saying Jones should have been on instead of Henderson in the England games and that hes great at taken the ball and running 40 yards with it. Makes the whole Jones in Midfield a tad more interesting, considering he plays with him, knows what his strengths are.

Giggsy11

Junior D wrote: »

I'm not claiming to be a huge football fan and watch every foreign game, but I do attempt to see as much as I can. And from what I've seen, they're very good players, and the type of midfielders I think United would need.

I dont think Veloso can add anything that we lack in Carrick. Carrick is better than him, also I dont agree with Fellaini being overrated but the terms "Overrated" and "Underrated" are different to different people. So lets agree to disagree here.

Red Crow

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

bullvine wrote: »

I dont agree about Moutinho/Veloso they would have been picked up by now, If they were that highly rated, they've been around awhile. Veloso nearly went to Bolton about 2 years ago.

I think your letting there performances at the Euros cloud your judgement!

Chelsea were after Moutinho, he is very highly rated. The problem is that you are dealing with Porto and their silly prices and ways of doing things

Moutinho isn't good enough at the top level and is an average CM.

Veloso is worse and people recommending that we should buy them are being foolish.

Junior D

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I dont think Veloso can add anything that we lack in Carrick. Carrick is better than him, also I dont agree with Fellaini being overrated but the terms "Overrated" and "Underrated" are different to different people. So lets agree to disagree here.

Fair enough and I do understand where you're comin from.
I just think Veloso is a step-up from Carrick.
And when I say I think Fellaini is over-rated, I'm not saying he's a bad player, I think he is good. But just not as good as some make out.

Red Crow

Junior D wrote: »

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I dont think Veloso can add anything that we lack in Carrick. Carrick is better than him, also I dont agree with Fellaini being overrated but the terms "Overrated" and "Underrated" are different to different people. So lets agree to disagree here.

Fair enough and I do understand where you're comin from.
I just think Veloso is a step-up from Carrick.
And when I say I think Fellaini is over-rated, I'm not saying he's a bad player, I think he is good. But just not as good as some make out.

Carrick is a far better player than Veloso.

Junior D

Eli Manning wrote: »

Moutinho isn't good enough at the top level and is an average CM.

Veloso is worse and people recommending that we should buy them are being foolish.

Moutinho is well able enough for the top level.

And I wasn't recommending United buy Veloso, but just an example of the type of player I think needed

Junior D

Eli Manning wrote: »

Carrick is a far better player than Veloso.

As with Giggsy, just gonna have to agree to disagree

Giggsy11

Junior D wrote: »

Fair enough and I do understand where you're comin from.
I just think Veloso is a step-up from Carrick.
And when I say I think Fellaini is over-rated, I'm not saying he's a bad player, I think he is good. But just not as good as some make out.

Yeah, that's why I said those terms are "vague" and with no proper meaning.

I disagree with Veloso being better than Carrick let alone Step up from carrick. He had good season with Genoa but I wouldn't say he is better than Carrick. Also Fellaini adds more to the team like physical presence in the midfield and also he is very good at attacking and defending set pieces. Without all that I rate Fellaini as better on the ball than Veloso.

In a way like Mitch said Fellaini's on the ball skills are underrated, people think he is just like a big target man who only dominates aerially.

Macca07

Junior D wrote: »

I just think Veloso is a step-up from Carrick.

Suppose you think Barry is better than Carrick too...

Giggsy11

Also I just hope we don't go anywhere near Porto for any player. They signed him for around 10 Million euro, that too from the rival team but when they sell it will be well over 20 Million. They are the best selling club I have ever seen.

Red Crow

Junior D wrote: »

Eli Manning wrote: »

Carrick is a far better player than Veloso.

As with Giggsy, just gonna have to agree to disagree

Fair enough dude, but I think a lot of people are looking for any CM to be signed at this stage.

bullvine

We are getting desperate, nearly has bad as last year, when we were discussing Barton or Charlie Adam as potential signings...

Giggsy11

Eli Manning wrote: »

Fair enough dude, but I think a lot of people are looking for any CM to be signed at this stage.

I think he said he is a Bolton fan.

double GG

What's with the sudden love for a stock player like Dembele. He isn't a good player. He wasn't anywhere near Fulham's best player this season and didn't stand out much at all. Reported fees of 15 million for him is laughable!

Fulham bought him two years ago for 5 million and he hasn't done anything at all for them. He started playing as a striker for around 40 odd games and scored the massive sum of 3 goals.

He then moved to Midfield and hasn't pulled up many trees there either.

I would take Kerim Frei from Fulham before I'd take Dembele.

Junior D

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I disagree with Veloso being better than Carrick let alone Step up from carrick. He had good season with Genoa but I wouldn't say he is better than Carrick. Also Fellaini adds more to the team like physical presence in the midfield and also he is very good at attacking and defending set pieces. Without all that I rate Fellaini as better on the ball than Veloso.

In a way like Mitch said Fellaini's on the ball skills are underrated, people think he is just like a big target man who only dominates aerially.

Fellaini and Veloso are different players, and it'd depend on what type of player you wanted for the center. If you were looking for someone to dominate midfield physically, then obviously Fellaini would be the better option

Macca07 wrote: »

Suppose you think Barry is better than Carrick too...

Just my opinion, but when did I mention anything about Barry? Would you not try discuss what was being mentioned here rather than trying to be a snear?

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Also I just hope we don't go anywhere near Porto for any player. They signed him for around 10 Million euro, that too from the rival team but when they sell it will be well over 20 Million. They are the best selling club I have ever seen.

Yeah I know, I think when Chelsea were lookin at Moutinho, they were looking for a ridic price.

The_Kew_Tour

It would be nice if United signed some top class CM out of the blue.

Problems sorted.

Wishful thinking though.

Junior D

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I think he said he is a Bolton fan.

:pac:
Funny, but as I've said already these are just my opinions on the matter is all. Can't see how Dembele would add anything new to the United set-up. Fellaini would add a presence in midfield, but I just think United need someone creative

bullvine

Junior D wrote: »

:pac:
Funny, but as I've said already these are just my opinions on the matter is all. Can't see how Dembele would add anything new to the United set-up. Fellaini would add a presence in midfield, but I just think United need someone creative

They bought Kawaga for Creativity!

homerjay2005

bullvine wrote: »

We are getting desperate, nearly has bad as last year, when we were discussing Barton or Charlie Adam as potential signings...

agreed with this with one exception as i think Fellani could add alot of goodness to our midfield. in fact, i would rather him than spend money on Modric, similar to Kagawa over Hazard.

ive never seen one player destroy us like Fellani did this year in the 4-4, i would perhaps go as far as saying its the best performance ive ever seen at old trafford by an opposition player.

in the air, on the ground, in space, set pieces, crosses...he really tore us a new one and considering our absolute gashness at set plays and both attacking and defending long balls, he is ideal for us.

we need somebody who is not afraid to kick somebody and put the fear of god into them.

Kagawa + Powell + Fellani + Strootman (or anybody in that mould) would be a dream summer.

sadly i can see us ending up with the first two and 2 full backs.

Sgt Pepper 64

Junior D wrote: »

Moutinho is well able enough for the top level.

And I wasn't recommending United buy Veloso, but just an example of the type of player I think needed

I agree

(All you need to know about Moutinho)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9342012/Euro-2012-scouting-report-Joao-Moutinho-Portugal.html

Mitch Connor

Junior D wrote: »

:pac:
Funny, but as I've said already these are just my opinions on the matter is all. Can't see how Dembele would add anything new to the United set-up. Fellaini would add a presence in midfield, but I just think United need someone creative

We have signed Kagawa who will provide a lot of creativity and, imo, if Cleverley can keep fit he will provide creativity too.

I would love if we signed Modric, but I think a player like Fellaini would be just as beneficial and provide something United currently lack; we may be able to sort or have sorted the creativity issue already.

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Kagawa + Powell + Fellani + Strootman (or anybody in that mould) would be a dream summer.

sadly i can see us ending up with the first two and 2 full backs.

That would be sweet.

although reality is your last point will more likely happen.:(

Junior D

Yeah I know Kagawa will give a lot of creativity, but he'll more than likely be playing in a kind of second striker role.

Whereas with Moutinho, i'm talking about someone who can take the ball deep and be the basis for attacks or a possession game from the midfield area.

Edit: But the more I think about it, if Moutinho were to do that, it would be nice to have someone like Fellaini there to provide some cover for him.

But obviously these 2 couldn't be brought in at the same time

unplayable

Junior D wrote: »

Yeah I know Kagawa will give a lot of creativity, but he'll more than likely be playing in a kind of second striker role.

Whereas with Moutinho, i'm talking about someone who can take the ball deep and be the basis for attacks or a possession game from the midfield area.

Edit: But the more I think about it, if Moutinho were to do that, it would be nice to have someone like Fellaini there to provide some cover for him.

But obviously these 2 couldn't be brought in at the same time

i know we all want a cm to be signed and i for one would love to see fellani as i think he would bring qualities to the team we dont have.

if we say a 4-2-3-1 is the way forward and i think it is then realistically we already have carrick,scholes,anderson,clev,giggs and jones who can play in the 2. for the 3 we have kagawa,valencia,young,park,giggs,rooney,welbeck,nani and for the 1 we have rooney,welbeck,hernandez and macheda?

therefore the only way i see us signing someone for the 2 is if jones is treated as a defender and we get confirmation that Fletcher wont be back. then carrick, ando, clev and giggs/scholes (pretty much 1 player in terms of a full season) isnt enough and we must sign a fellani or a strootman. modric is a pipedream at this stage and no way fergie will ever sign a player like tiote as he loves center mids not defensive mids.

cabaye would prob be the ultimate signing as i see him and carrick forming a good understanding. but newcastle will ask 20m plus for him i fear. with this really being the last season of giggs/scholes fergie needs to act now to give a player like fellani a season to bed in before we lose those two great servants of the club.

Mitch Connor

unplayable wrote: »

i know we all want a cm to be signed and i for one would love to see fellani as i think he would bring qualities to the team we dont have.

if we say a 4-2-3-1 is the way forward and i think it is then realistically we already have carrick,scholes,anderson,clev,giggs and jones who can play in the 2. for the 3 we have kagawa,valencia,young,park,giggs,rooney,welbeck,nani and for the 1 we have rooney,welbeck,hernandez and macheda?

therefore the only way i see us signing someone for the 2 is if jones is treated as a defender and we get confirmation that Fletcher wont be back. then carrick, ando, clev and giggs/scholes (pretty much 1 player in terms of a full season) isnt enough and we must sign a fellani or a strootman. modric is a pipedream at this stage and no way fergie will ever sign a player like tiote as he loves center mids not defensive mids.

cabaye would prob be the ultimate signing as i see him and carrick forming a good understanding. but newcastle will ask 20m plus for him i fear. with this really being the last season of giggs/scholes fergie needs to act now to give a player like fellani a season to bed in before we lose those two great servants of the club.

Agree with this.

Hope we are going to 4231, with Kagawa the central attacking midfielder and Rooney up top.

The midfield 2 options, currently, are Carrick and either Cleverley or Anderson (Scholes and Giggs too, but shouldn't be relying on them).

----Carrick-Fellaini
Valencia-Kagawa-Nani

---

Rooney

I'd love to see that. Carrick and Cabaye would be equally exciting imo.

We need someone though.

bullvine

Do you not thinks its a sad state of affairs when Michael Carrick is Man United first choice midfielder!

Paul Tergat

One concern for me is the lack of Welbeck and Chicho in potential 4231. It will stunt their growth not getting regular first team football

unplayable

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Agree with this.

Hope we are going to 4231, with Kagawa the central attacking midfielder and Rooney up top.

The midfield 2 options, currently, are Carrick and either Cleverley or Anderson (Scholes and Giggs too, but shouldn't be relying on them).

----Carrick-Fellaini
Valencia-Kagawa-Nani

---

Rooney

I'd love to see that. Carrick and Cabaye would be equally exciting imo.

We need someone though.

everton have always been a selling club mitch. the fact they paid 15m for fellani in 2008 will mean they will prob want that at least.if we could get either cabaye or fellani for 20m who would you choose. cabaye is 26 and fellani is 24. i would lean towards cabaye.

the whole baines thing depends on fergies view in fabio.i for one would not loan him and give him gamesat lb next season, maybe not playin himand rafael togther often.leave smalling and jones play right back a bit. cause vidic,rio and evans are top 3 cbs at club without a doubt. if he loans fabio its bad news for him as a signing like baines would mean no immediate future for fabio at the club.

Macca07

bullvine wrote: »

Do you not thinks its a sad state of affairs when Michael Carrick is Man United first choice midfielder!

Not really no...

Has been outstanding for us over the last few seasons, bar a few poor performances.

But he really has had no one along side him, and he has also stepped in at CB when needed.

Paul Tergat

Macca07 wrote: »

Not really no...

Has been outstanding for us over the last few seasons, bar a few poor performances.

But he really has had no one along side him, and he has also stepped in at CB when needed.

id be a defender of Carrick but the word outstanding isnt correct here

Macca07

Paul Tergat wrote: »

id be a defender of Carrick but the word outstanding isnt correct here

Fair enough, not outstanding, but he's lot better than what he's given credit for

Paul Tergat

Macca07 wrote: »

Fair enough, not outstanding, but he's lot better than what he's given credit for

Yeah id definitely go along with that. My United supporting mates always go on about him how he doesnt do this and that. I point out to them he does his job and is good at it. He has limitations sure but he does what Fergie tells him to go out and do and does it effectively.

keane2097

Cabaye would be an awesome purchase.

bullvine

Lets not get carried away, hes the best of whats currently there and he had probably his best season last year and has always been a good player for United but for him to be first choice in Midfield. Its a tad depressing!

bullvine

Macca07 wrote: »

Fair enough, not outstanding, but he's lot better than what he's given credit for

Don't get me wrong I rate Carrick, I think most fans like him now and understand what he brings to the team but Man United should have a least one world class midfielder and they currently dont!

Junior D

Carrick is solid, but as said I don't think he's good enough to be an out-and-out 1st choice starter.
He does ok, but he'll never be a game-changer or someone who has the ability to do something special, which I think United need in the center

IvySlayer

Bale signs a new contract with Tottenham, very surprised by that. Levy must of guaranteed a top manager.

SirDelboy18

Junior D wrote: »

Carrick is solid, but as said I don't think he's good enough to be an out-and-out 1st choice starter.
He does ok, but he'll never be a game-changer or someone who has the ability to do something special, which I think United need in the center

This is what really grates me. Why isn't he good enough to be an out and out starter, despite being our best midfielder by a distance since the start of 2011?

If you argue with that then you simply haven't watched United or struggle to comprehend the game itself.

His job, as many fail to realise, is not to "do something special". He is supposed to protect the defense and distribute the ball. In fact, you could argue that he changes the game more than others down to his massive interception rate.

v3ttel

However unrealistic this is, this would be my ideal line up, they are all individually excellent and complement each other very well too:

---Felliani-Cabaye----
Valencia-Kawaga-Nani

---

Rooney

---

F*ck, if only this was Football Manager, we'd be well sorted and everyone would be happy.

I hear Strootman mentioned a lot, but I haven't seen much, if any Dutch league football, so can't really comment on him.

Winston Payne

Exactly. Carrick's a sitting midfielder. It's not his role to go charging up the pitch or play an advanced creative role. He does his job quite well.

Junior D

Well I'm going on the basis that United should be 1 of the best clubs in the world and if you put them up against any of the other top clubs, it should be close.

Now if you were to put Carrick up against any of the players who play a similar position of the other top clubs, he would get mauled.

He's nowhere near the same league as Khedira, Schweinstieger, Busquets, Pirlo etc..

Macca07

Junior D wrote: »

He's nowhere near the same league as Khedira, Schweinstieger, Busquets, Pirlo etc..

Agreed, but the first three will never, ever, ever move to United.

And the only reason I'd take Pirlo is because he's 4 years younger than Scholes.

Winston Payne

Junior D wrote: »

Well I'm going on the basis that United should be 1 of the best clubs in the world and if you put them up against any of the other top clubs, it should be close.

Now if you were to put Carrick up against any of the players who play a similar position of the other top clubs, he would get mauled.

He's nowhere near the same league as Khedira, Schweinstieger, Busquets, Pirlo etc..

Schweinsteiger's the only one there that's better and he's also the second of those players who doesn't play the same role as him anyway.