Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Junior D

Winston Payne wrote: »

Schweinsteiger's the only one there that's better and he's also the second of those players who doesn't play the same role as him anyway.

Theres no way Carrick is better than any of those I mentioned.
Schweinsteiger plays a deeper role with both Germany and Bayern now as well.

Samich

Well, no Gareth Bale for us anytime soon :P

He's signed a new 4 year deal.

DM_7

Carrick is not the problem.

its who he plays alonside that is the problem.

stick him beside Xavi/Iniesta or Xabi Alonso or Marchisio/Vidal and he would look pretty good.

Ashbourne hoop

bullvine wrote: »

Lets not get carried away, hes the best of whats currently there and he had probably his best season last year and has always been a good player for United but for him to be first choice in Midfield. Its a tad depressing!

His first two seasons where his best at Utd imo.

Winston Payne

Junior D wrote: »

Theres no way Carrick is better than any of those I mentioned.
Schweinsteiger plays a deeper role with both Germany and Bayern now as well.

He's still got much more freedom to get up the pitch than Carrick and can run with the ball. It's worth comparing who those other players play with too. Busquets plays with Xavi & Iniesta. Pirlo plays with Marchisio and Vidal at Juventus, and three mobile runners with Italy. He has total creative freedom. Khedira's alongside Alonso, and he's Ozil ahead of him at Real Madrid. Who does Carrick have? Scholes, who can give you half an hour in the first half then ten minutes in the second, Giggs, a winger who has had a very, very late positional transition and isn't a CM really, when you get down to it, and Phil Jones. A centre half.

Junior D

Winston Payne wrote: »

It's worth comparing who those other players play with too. Busquets plays with Xavi & Iniesta. Pirlo plays with Marchisio and Vidal at Juventus, and three mobile runners with Italy. He has total creative freedom. Khedira's alongside Alonso, and he's Ozil ahead of him at Real Madrid. Who does Carrick have? Scholes, who can give you half an hour in the first half then ten minutes in the second, Giggs, a winger who has had a very, very late positional transition and isn't a CM really, when you get down to it, and Phil Jones. A centre half.

Thats a good point which I never really took into consideration i suppose.

SirDelboy18

Junior D wrote: »

Well I'm going on the basis that United should be 1 of the best clubs in the world and if you put them up against any of the other top clubs, it should be close.

Now if you were to put Carrick up against any of the players who play a similar position of the other top clubs, he would get mauled.

He's nowhere near the same league as Khedira, Schweinstieger, Busquets, Pirlo etc..

See with Carrick, you rarely need another defensive player. With Pirlo, you need a robust type to give him protection. See De Rossi/Marchisio or Gattuso in the past. So theres 1 down.

Khedira is far more mobile and actually plays ahead of Alonso for Madrid, so a comparison really isn't valid. His best attribute these days are his vertical runs which distract from Alonso, giving him more time. His job is less about sitting deep and more about running, getting possession higher up the pitch. You can't compare them, but Carrick has miles better positioning, which is one of his most important attributes.

Busquets, yes is better.

Schweinsteiger plays with Luis Gustavo very often who is a defensive player. With Carrick, you rarely need another defensive midfielder, because he is the midfielder contributing most to defense!

The examples you offered prove your lack of understanding about Carrick.

macslash

As good as Fellaini and Dembele are for their respective clubs, I really do not think they would be good enough for United. Personally I would love Strootman. We are crying out for someone with a bit of creativity. Maybe SAF will persevere with Ando and Clevs, but I think we need someone new.

P.s. 1st post in the soccer forum! At last I can comment instead of just read

Samich

So basically we want a deep play maker? I do think we need a tough tackler too though. I think if we got a Modric type the defence in midfield would suffer. Unless Fletcher made it back to his best.

Absolutely loved Fletcher at the top of his game. I felt that he wasn't naturally a good passer or dribbler but got the feeling he worked his balls of just to improve for the team.

Fenix

If we had that deep laying playmaker, Carricks duties would be confined to breaking stuff up, doing the donkey work and playing the simple pass to the more creative players...

G.K.

Carrick is fantastic defensively, his big problem is when he comes under pressing, of course. I personally prefer Veloso as a player but Carrick is better suited to the DM Role at United. The Portugese is better at tracking men instead of covering space, while for Carrick it's vice versa and that's what you need in MUFC's system, especially if a DLP is aquired. Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Busquets and Pirlo are all far better players but only Busquets is really comparable to Carrick.

Moutinho, on the other hand, is clearly not average, imo. An excellent player who like Cabaye is decent defensively as well as extremely creative from both deep and advanced positions. If he could be got for a decent price, he'd be a fantastic signing imo.

Owen_S

I never knew so many of the people in this thread played Football Manager 2012. Some of the suggestions are based on a 3.5 star scout report.

Kirby

Moutinho is excellent and in my eyes would be a huge success at United. Fergie should go get him from Porto immediately before somebody else does.

Junior D

He won't be allowed Porto unless for a crazy price

Kirby

Double their money. Offer 20 million and it would be accepted. Porto posture alot with prices, like 50 million for hulk for example....but when it comes down to it its just talk. Give them a concrete offer and they usually accept.

Paul Tergat

welcome macslash!

Giggsy11

Owen_S wrote: »

I never knew so many of the people in this thread played Football Manager 2012. Some of the suggestions are based on a 3.5 star scout report.

It is safe to assume you haven't played FM2012 or didn't grasp the concept of how stars works. It depends on reputation of the club, so the same player wont have same stars for different teams or in different year (If club reputation increases)

:pac:

Owen_S

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It is safe to assume you haven't played FM2012 or didn't grasp the concept of how stars works. It depends on reputation of the club, so the same player wont have same stars for different teams or in different year (If club reputation increases)

:pac:

Yes, but this is the Manchester United discussion thread, in which we are talking about potential transfers for Manchester United, not different teams :pac:

uncleoswald

DM-ICE wrote: »

Carrick is not the problem.

its who he plays alonside that is the problem.

stick him beside Xavi/Iniesta or Xabi Alonso or Marchisio/Vidal and he would look pretty good.

I know people get frustrated around discussion of Carrick's shortcomings as he is obviously our best central midfielder so in theory should be the last person we should look to replace. But then we start talking about finding someone to play alongside him and I think this is where the problem with Carrick arises.

You look for a creative player who can dictate play and allow Carrick to shield the back four - fine against most opposition but against a mobile midfield he can easily become overrun.
Or you look at box to box engine-room players to provide the running that Carrick can't and then you are looking to Carrick to dictate play and he is very one-note in this regard and isn't exactly an unlocker of defences so we are often toothless from the centre, particularly as Rooney has been off the boil creatively as well.

With Carrick in the side I just feel we will always need to play 3 in the centre against good sides, even sides that play a well balanced midfield 2.

Giggsy11

Owen_S wrote: »

Yes, but this is the Manchester United discussion thread, in which we are talking about potential transfers for Manchester United, not different teams :pac:

Yeah but still in different years that stars will be different

Btw I dont trust potential ratings at all, the player with PA 170 will be rated as 3 stars, so is player with 145 or 150.

Genie scout FTW!!!

lordgoat

uncleoswald wrote: »

With Carrick in the side I just feel we will always need to play 3 in the centre against good sides, even sides that play a well balanced midfield 2.

What other teams would not play a 5 man midfield against these good teams?
Bit of a pointless argument to single united out like that.


Carrick bottom of the list in terms of who needs replacing in MF.

Paul Tergat

uncleoswald wrote: »

You look for a creative player who can dictate play and allow Carrick to shield the back four - fine against most opposition but against a mobile midfield he can easily become overrun.

This is a stupid point. If you have one creative midfielder in any team not willing to help with defending then any 1 midfielder asked to sit is going to be overrun as 2 or even 3 midfielders come at him. This would not only apply to Carrick.

I like 442 but the thing is in modern football its just not going to work against the better sides. Flooding the midfield and keeping possession are now order of the day and we need to adapt to this which it looks like we are doing

Al Capwned

macslash wrote: »

As good as Fellaini and Dembele are for their respective clubs, I really do not think they would be good enough for United. Personally I would love Strootman. We are crying out for someone with a bit of creativity. Maybe SAF will persevere with Ando and Clevs, but I think we need someone new.

P.s. 1st post in the soccer forum! At last I can comment instead of just read

Excellent 1st post - Cannot understand the clamour for Fellaini by some.... He's a decent player, but United should be aiming way way higher than him.

VW 1

alproctor wrote: »

macslash wrote: »

As good as Fellaini and Dembele are for their respective clubs, I really do not think they would be good enough for United. Personally I would love Strootman. We are crying out for someone with a bit of creativity. Maybe SAF will persevere with Ando and Clevs, but I think we need someone new.

P.s. 1st post in the soccer forum! At last I can comment instead of just read

Excellent 1st post - Cannot understand the clamour for Fellaini by some.... He's a decent player, but United should be aiming way way higher than him.

But in reality, name a player who is available/might be interested in playing for us and has the same ability as Fellaini has, that won't cost more than 30m.

Quandary

alproctor wrote: »

Excellent 1st post - Cannot understand the clamour for Fellaini by some.... He's a decent player, but United should be aiming way way higher than him.

People were saying similar things about Valencia when he was at Wigan but look at how he has developed!

Fellaini would really thrive at a bigger club IMO.

If we got fellaini or someone of his ability this summer I would be over the moon.

Al Capwned

VW 1 wrote: »

But in reality, name a player who is available/might be interested in playing for us and has the same ability as Fellaini has, that won't cost more than 30m.

Not easy to do, in fairness. Fellaini is a decent player, but in my opinion, would not improve on the options that we have already.

The trouble is, that if we are looking to sign a central midfielder who has established quality, we'd do very well to get one for the figure you quoted...

JaMarcus Hustle

Have a feeling similar things that are being said of Fellaini were also said of Valencia, who is now nothing short of a fúcking boss.

Price considered, give me Fellaini over Modric and Strootman anyday of the week.

Al Capwned

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Have a feeling similar things that are being said of Fellaini were also said of Valencia, who is now nothing short of a fúcking boss.

Price considered, give me Fellaini over Modric and Strootman anyday of the week.

That's the thing though, I would assume the majority of United supporters just want to see success on the pitch, and are not overly concerned about spending a higher transfer fee on the likes of Modric or Strootman...

Owen_S

Hypothetically, how much do people actually think Fellaini would cost? Some people seem to think that he would be cheap.

Considering the price Everton paid for him in 2008(£15 million aged 20), inflation in transfer fees since 2008, the fact that he has improved and Everton would like a profit, I think he would be £25m+, not too far off the touted fees for more 'established' midfielders such as Modric.

shrewdness

While I'd love Utd to sign the likes of Modric or Strootman, I'd be delighted if we signed Fellaini. I think he looks the type of player who could really step it up a gear at a bigger club and reach a higher level, I'd completely agree with the comparisons with Valencia.

His performance in the 4-4 draw last season was one of the best individual performances at OT by an opposing player in some time imo. He refused to be beaten and drove his team on time and time again, he was all over the pitch, and scored and set up another. He'd offer a big physical presence in midfield which we haven't had in a while, and he's still only 24 and has plenty of scope for improvement I think. The fee would be another matter, and I do suspect he would cost a good bit over £20m seeing as he was signed for £15m.

kryogen

Kirby wrote: »

Double their money. Offer 20 million and it would be accepted. Porto posture alot with prices, like 50 million for hulk for example....but when it comes down to it its just talk. Give them a concrete offer and they usually accept.

They will not accept 20 million

Sporting will be owed 25% of any fee, and Moutinho is part owned by a third party.

kryogen

alproctor wrote: »

That's the thing though, I would assume the majority of United supporters just want to see success on the pitch, and are not overly concerned about spending a higher transfer fee on the likes of Modric or Strootman...

There is no way Strootman would cost more then Fellani

Al Capwned

kryogen wrote: »

There is no way Strootman would cost more then Fellani

Must admit the only thing i know about him is the youtube vid posted here yesterday or the day before (Think you might have posted it??)

What you reckon he can be prised away from Holland for?

Jax Teller

If you offered me Fellaini or Modric for the same price id take Modric every single time . Fellaini isn't even in Modrics league IMO .

IvySlayer

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

If you offered me Fellaini or Modric for the same price id take Modric every single time . Fellaini isn't even in Modrics league IMO .

I Modric but United need Fellani more than Modric.

JaMarcus Hustle

Moutinho must have read this thread before kick off. Game of his life out there.

Jax Teller

IvySlayer wrote: »

I Modric but United need Fellani more than Modric.

I don't agree .

I think Modric can replace Scholes for the next 6 or 8 years . People are saying ball retention is our problem Modric will offer a lot more in that department than Fellaini .

Adamcp898

Yeah don't see why people are trying to compare Fellaini and Modric in the first place but Modric every single time to be honest, even if Fellaini was much cheaper because it would mean we wouldn't go and buy another. We'll only buy one centre midfielder, spend the mortgage on him.

In other news, Nani's not looking half bad tonight

Owen_S

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Yeah don't see why people are trying to compare Fellaini and Modric in the first place but Modric every single time to be honest, even if Fellaini was much cheaper because it would mean we wouldn't go and buy another. We'll only buy one centre midfielder, spend the mortgage on him.

In other news, Nani's not looking half bad tonight

He had great moments, both ruined by the questionable referee. First was a great counter-attack stopped by an unpunished body check, second time he went through on goal but the referee refused to let Portugal play advantage

GSPfan

Can you imagine United ringing up Everton.

"We are interested in your best defender Leighton Baines".
"Oh and how much would you give us Fellaini for?!".

Poor Everton. They'd get sick if that happened. But it is Everton, and they can't turn down good money. They would get close to £40 million off United for them two. Could they be tempted.

Fellaini would be an excellent signing for us. Don't think we will sign him, though I hope I'm wrong.

I'd love to know who we're working on getting at the moment...

GSPfan

The less rumours you hear the better in terms of United signing someone. They work in secret or not at all.

Fellaini would be Uniteds Yaya. He can adapt to suit attack or defense. Have no idea about Strootman so if you asked me to sign a midfielder who I think is get'able, it would be Fellaini.

Smegball

Hope we sign Hugo Almeida for target man after tonights performance so far. :pac:

GSPfan

With all the talk of buying players do any of you actually think we will sell a player?

Seems like we either retire players or let them leave for next to nothing. I'd be in favour of United getting rid of Park and Anderson if it meant bringing in two new players. I'd roll that dice.

Professional Griefer

Berba

Kirby

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Moutinho must have read this thread before kick off. Game of his life out there.

This is the thing, he always plays this well. Everytime I see him he has looked impressive....he's simply a good player. Uniteds midfield looks toothless these days and he is quick, gets in and around the opposition and is a brilliant passer. And he would be cheaper than modric too.

I still think 20 million would get him. I was unaware about the third party ownership that kryogen mentioned but I can't see how that would factor in...the premier league don't allow it at all after the tevez affair so whichever club bids on him only have to deal with porto. Anything past that is between the player and somebody else.

ADarkKnight88

Never mind all the other midfielders, Moutinho is the man

kryogen

alproctor wrote: »

Must admit the only thing i know about him is the youtube vid posted here yesterday or the day before (Think you might have posted it??)

What you reckon he can be prised away from Holland for?

When we have been linked to him the fee being reported ranges between 11-14 million. Wouldnt imagine that is far off

kryogen

Kirby wrote: »

This is the thing, he always plays this well. Everytime I see him he has looked impressive....he's simply a good player. Uniteds midfield looks toothless these days and he is quick, gets in and around the opposition and is a brilliant passer. And he would be cheaper than modric too.

I still think 20 million would get him. I was unaware about the third party ownership that kryogen mentioned but I can't see how that would factor in...the premier league don't allow it at all after the tevez affair so whichever club bids on him only have to deal with porto. Anything past that is between the player and somebody else.

If Porto accept 20 million, they give 5 million to Sporting, leaving them with 15 million. Then they have to pay off the third party, they initially sold 37.5% of him, they bought back 22.5% already so that third party owns 15% of him, Porto would come out with no profit on the deal whatsoever, why would they accept that?

IncognitoMan

ADarkKnight88 wrote: »

Never mind all the other midfielders, Moutinho is the man

Moutinho has been excellent during this tournment but what has his form been like the past two seasons. Dont watch a lot of porto except for champions league games