Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen

I will say one thing for them, they are excellent at getting money for nothing!

Jimmy Iovine

kryogen wrote: »

I will say one thing for them, they are excellent at getting money for nothing!

And lots of it. That DHL deal must be up there with one of the craziest deals of all time.

kryogen

The major thing that causes concern is cash flow. As stated in the Reuters article, the cash or cash equivalent had dropped to just over 25 million at the end of March from 150 million the previous June. Did it all go to buying back the debt? I know almost 100 million has been spent re aquiring the bond, think its 92 million exactly, that is a real worry for me.

A club can have as big a turnover as it likes but cash flow is the most important thing in business, I know the club has a rolling line of credit it can also dip into but I think nobody would want more debt added!

DM_7

Was it not mentioned recently how March would be a low point as it is so late in the year. Prize money etc comes in at end of the season?

kryogen

DM-ICE wrote: »

Was it not mentioned recently how March would be a low point as it is so late in the year. Prize money etc comes in at end of the season?

Yeah it is something like that alright, and I am hoping it is simply that, it is just a concern I have about the cash flow that has been going on for about 18months

The amount of cash being taken out of the club re acquiring the bond

Wexfordboy89

seems like young fryers has signed for spurs on a four year deal!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2169567/Tottenham-sign-Zeki-Fryers-Manchester-United.html

kryogen

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

seems like young fryers has signed for spurs on a four year deal!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2169567/Tottenham-sign-Zeki-Fryers-Manchester-United.html

Yep, as long as we get fairly compensated its not a big loss or anything, the guy coming behind him looks a better prospect at left back anyway (Blackett)

http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/Reserves/Tyler-Blackett.aspx

Felexicon

kryogen wrote: »

Yep, as long as we get fairly compensated its not a big loss or anything, the guy coming behind him looks a better prospect at left back anyway (Blackett)

http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/Reserves/Tyler-Blackett.aspx

Any idea how they work out the compensation for each player?
It seems like there are no real guidlines for the price reached

kryogen

Felexicon wrote: »

Any idea how they work out the compensation for each player?
It seems like there are no real guidlines for the price reached

This will only happen if United and Spurs fail to reach an agreement on the players fee anyway so maybe it wont get that far

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/06/30/78/statusinhalt_en_122007.pdf

Info on it there, article 20 (Training Compensation) and Annex 4 specifically deals with the matter (as this elaborates on it)

This is toward the bottom of the document

UnitedIrishman

Felexicon wrote: »

Any idea how they work out the compensation for each player?
It seems like there are no real guidlines for the price reached

As far as I know it's to do with how many years the player was developed at the club and caps etc, and then in the tribunal the 'selling' club, for lack of a better name, make out that he was going to be George Best v2 and that he was a major loss to them.

Thus, if we were made pay 3m for David Bellion at tribunal, we should make about 30m.

kryogen

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

As far as I know it's to do with how many years the player was developed at the club and caps etc, and then in the tribunal the 'selling' club, for lack of a better name, make out that he was going to be George Best v2 and that he was a major loss to them.

Thus, if we were made pay 3m for David Bellion at tribunal, we should make about 30m.

Bellion cost 2 didnt he?

Not sure if he met the required appearances clause to increase it to 3?

And he had more first team appearances 20 league apps anyway

lol just did a quick check on him, we are the only team to have paid any money for him! Listed at 2million



Still, multiple league winner in different countries

kryogen

From the fifa document

Calculation of training compensation
1. As a general rule, to calculate the training compensation due to a
player’s former club(s), it is necessary to take the costs that would have
been incurred by the new club if it had trained the player itself.
2. Accordingly, the fi rst time a player registers as a professional, the
training compensation payable is calculated by taking the training
costs of the new club multiplied by the number of years of
training, in principle from the season of the player’s 12th birthday
to the season of his 21st birthday. In the case of subsequent transfers,
training compensation is calculated based on the training costs of
the new club multiplied by the number of years of training with the
former club.
3. To ensure that training compensation for very young players is not
set at unreasonably high levels, the training costs for players for the
seasons between their 12th and 15th birthdays (i.e. four seasons) shall
be based on the training and education costs of category 4 clubs.
4. The Dispute Resolution Chamber may review disputes concerning the
amount of training compensation payable and shall have discretion
to adjust this amount if it is clearly disproportionate to the case under
review.
ANNEXE 4

UnitedIrishman

My bad, Bellion cost 3m but it wasn't at tribunal. Sunderland agreed a fee days before the hearing.

Bellion, lord he was shít.

Al Capwned

From Wiki... (i know, i know....)

As Bellion was under the age of 23, Sunderland were eligible for compensation, and a fee of £2 million, rising to £3 million depending on appearances, was agreed out of court

Jimmy Iovine

alproctor wrote: »

From Wiki... (i know, i know....)

He only made 24 appearances over 3 seasons so I doubt that he'd have qualified for the extra million.

TheTownie

Just in case there was any lingering doubt.

Sky Sports can confirm that Manchester United ace Park Ji-sung has agreed a move to Queens Park Rangers.

QPR have agreed a deal with United, reportedly worth £2million, and have made quick progress in agreeing terms.

Sky Sports understands Park has agreed a three-year deal with the West London outfit, and he will become QPR's latest acquisition.

Park also becomes the second player to arrive from Old Trafford in the space of a week, after they concluded a season-long loan for Fabio.

The move ends a seven-year stay at United for Park, who has become hugely popular following his move from PSV Eindhoven. Park played over 200 games for Sir Alex Ferguson's side.

TheTownie

Quote from Nani;

When asked if he will be staying put, Nani, who is enjoying a three-week break following his Euro 2012 exploits with semi-finalists Portugal, told the Times of India: "We will see.

I am very happy at Man United and have been there five years and won every title.

The manager has great faith in me and that's what is important. My agent is negotiating and we'll see what happens."

VW 1

I really hope we respect the player Nani has become and give him a contract he deserves to reflect that. Losing him because we aren't prepared to pay him enough, when we have cleared PIG Owen Park and possibly Berba off the wage list, would be a silly decision.

Hopefully we can offer Nani a new contract and still have enough room on the wage bill to accommodate our shiny new CM signing!

Giggsy11

Park moving to QPR might also be good for Fabio, he will have someone with whom he has played for years so will take very little time to adapt and Park will play (assumption) as LW which means Fabio will get enough cover and won't be exposed often.

This deal is a win - win for both clubs. We got at least some transfer fee for a player who was not good enough for us anymore and also QPR got premier league experienced player for just 2 million at the time where you can't even get lower league players for that price. And also for Park himself as he gets playing time.

kryogen

TheTownie wrote: »

Just in case there was any lingering doubt.

The speed with which it was done and the fact that it is to another United old boy club makes me think this was done in a similar manner to the O Shea transfer, i.e United gave him the option of signing 1 year extensions (as is the case in your thirties) or offering to help get him the best contract possible somewhere else with more security (longer contract)

kryogen

VW 1 wrote: »

I really hope we respect the player Nani has become and give him a contract he deserves to reflect that. Losing him because we aren't prepared to pay him enough, when we have cleared PIG Owen Park and possibly Berba off the wage list, would be a silly decision.

Hopefully we can offer Nani a new contract and still have enough room on the wage bill to accommodate our shiny new CM signing!

I am still working off the belief that this is regular negotiation stuff for the bigger player and the biggest contracts of their careers most likely.


He wants to stay but is trying to get as much $$$ as he can from the club
The club want him to stay but want to save as much $$$ as possible

Nani will want to be in the top bracket, which is fair enough, the club will not want to give into his wage demands too easily for fear of being seen as soft touches.

tupac_healy

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Park moving to QPR might also be good for Fabio, he will have someone with whom he has played for years so will take very little time to adapt and Park will play (assumption) as LW which means Fabio will get enough cover and won't be exposed often.

This deal is a win - win for both clubs. We got at least some transfer fee for a player who was not good enough for us anymore and also QPR got premier league experienced player for just 2 million at the time where you can't even get lower league players for that price. And also for Park himself as he gets playing time.

I would agree with this, IF we have another CM coming in, if not then whilst the deal may be right for all concerned then it would be bad timing in the very least for us.

For all his limits, Park was at least another somewhat capable body around the place, such as a John O'Shea type. You never realise how much you need this type of player until your back is against the wall.

But still retaining some hope fergie will address the situation :rolleyes:

Giggsy11

tupac_healy wrote: »

I would agree with this, IF we have another CM coming in, if not then whilst the deal may be right for all concerned then it would be bad timing in the very least for us.

For all his limits, Park was at least another somewhat capable body around the place, such as a John O'Shea type. You never realise how much you need this type of player until your back is against the wall.

But still retaining some hope fergie will address the situation :rolleyes:

Yeah but Park was useless (harsh but close to truth) in a 2 man midfield, he was good as a part of 3 man midfield. He rarely played in the midfield, most of his games were always on wings.

In big games we will surely miss his work rate though, he was just fantastic. Also I would say this is good one as the games he played can be given to young players (like Petrucci, at least few games).

kryogen

Crazy eyes Nani!

http://www.whosay.com/Nani/photos/191614

Samich

Rumours of Man Utd agreeing a 20m pound deal for Moutinho. Can't take any notice of it mind.

kryogen

Some reports on Twitter saying he has agreed a deal (Nani) not taking them seriously though so won't bother posting, just in general, from what he said when he was directly asked, it does look positive.

Samich

DEAL! Crewe have completed the signing of Mathias Pogba from Wrexham. Yes, he is Paul Pogba's brother. You may recall that, like his brother, he caused a few problems at his club while trying to force a transfer. In Mathias's case he didn't bother calling them to say he had left, although to be fair his contract had expired.

Runs in the family?

kryogen

The more comments I read the more I fear Fergie is gonna try shove Kag out on the left or shoe horn him into a 2 man midfield

Probably overreacting of course!

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

The more comments I read the more I fear Fergie is gonna try shove Kag out on the left or shoe horn him into a 2 man midfield

Probably overreacting of course!

Sometimes starting on left wing and moving centrally like Giggs used to do won't be such a waste (still a waste) but moving him to midfield 2 will be big joke.

I don't know why but I'm very confident that SAF won't play him in midfield 2 and will play very rarely on left wing.

Samich

Following the eurosport tracker and someone commented in saying Fergie said he "was working on one or two things" in the last few days. Anyone confirm he said something like this?

Also Kag might go on the left but might be given the freedom to drift. Wasn't Ronaldo down as a right winger

MoscowFlyer

Some Russian radio station is claiming that Roberto Mancini has signed a 6 year deal to become the Russia Head Coach, earning €7.2m per year.

Pretty hilarious rumour tbf

MagicMarker

Samich wrote: »

Rumours of Man Utd agreeing a 20m pound deal for Moutinho. Can't take any notice of it mind.

What rumours? From where? Why are you posting?

Giggsy11

Samich wrote: »

Following the eurosport tracker and someone commented in saying Fergie said he "was working on one or two things" in the last few days. Anyone confirm he said something like this?

Yes, he said that. I think it was last week and it was on Manutd.com

Samich

MagicMarker wrote: »

What rumours? From where? Why are you posting?

yahoo transfer tracker. Why are you posting?

the "eurobot" also says " Reports are that it's a £2m initial deal, which could rise to £5m depending on what kind of impact he has at the club. The fee is relatively low as - surprise surprise - he is 31. But he looks so young!"

I follow the yahoo transfer ticker most transfer windows, I find it good.

kryogen

good read if you have an interest

http://www.englandfootballblog.com/2012/07/06/tyler-blacketts-rise-at-manchester-united/

Couple of vids in there too

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

yahoo transfer tracker. Why are you posting?

the "eurobot" also says " Reports are that it's a £2m initial deal, which could rise to £5m depending on what kind of impact he has at the club. The fee is relatively low as - surprise surprise - he is 31. But he looks so young!"

I follow the yahoo transfer ticker most transfer windows, I find it good.

Wouldn't imagine the Park rumour is the one he asked you about!

Hint, its in the post he quoted you from

kryogen

****ing RI would piss you off at times

Samich

kryogen wrote: »

Wouldn't imagine the Park rumour is the one he asked you about!

Hint, its in the post he quoted you from

Yeah I know it was the Moutinho one he was on about.

VW 1

kryogen wrote: »

VW 1 wrote: »

I really hope we respect the player Nani has become and give him a contract he deserves to reflect that. Losing him because we aren't prepared to pay him enough, when we have cleared PIG Owen Park and possibly Berba off the wage list, would be a silly decision.

Hopefully we can offer Nani a new contract and still have enough room on the wage bill to accommodate our shiny new CM signing!

I am still working off the belief that this is regular negotiation stuff for the bigger player and the biggest contracts of their careers most likely.


He wants to stay but is trying to get as much $$$ as he can from the club
The club want him to stay but want to save as much $$$ as possible

Nani will want to be in the top bracket, which is fair enough, the club will not want to give into his wage demands too easily for fear of being seen as soft touches.

Very much hoping this is the case, but with the youngsters our policy has proven we won't be messed with and quite ruthless, let's hope it is a slightly different approach with one of our top talents.

kryogen

VW 1 wrote: »

Very much hoping this is the case, but with the youngsters our policy has proven we won't be messed with and quite ruthless, let's hope it is a slightly different approach with one of our top talents.

Rooney has a lot to answer for as I keep saying!

I think the club is going out of its way to try to show they are not soft touches now with the youngsters as I'm sure plenty of agents are advising the kids and other players in fact, that they can get them better deals because look how the club crumbled and gave into Rooney when he publicly said he wanted to leave.

I don't think they will be as hard line with Nani, but equally I hope his agent does not push too hard either. He has said he is happy at United so I expect a deal to be done, if he had not said anything then I guess I would be more concerned.

Patsy fyre

Betting suspended on ji sung joining qpr. Strange one that. Good servant to the club though and probably the right time to leave also.

Smegball

---

De Gea----

---

Rafael -- Rio -- Vidic --- Baines/Evra

Nani/Valencia -- Carrick -- Moutinho -- Young/Nani

---

Kagawa

---

---

Rooney

---

I LIKE!!

larchielads

anyone watch phil brown today on ssn. he was saying that the 2 english clubs in the running for van persie are utd and city. he was aying that utd have said that whatever city offer, utd will match.

his words not mine.
anyone shed any light on this or is it just all paper talk???

Samich

I hope we don't sign him. He's 29 now and imo only has one more massive season in him, possibly 2.

IrishAm

No way Wenger would do business with United.

Mikeyt086

larchielads wrote: »

anyone watch phil brown today on ssn. he was saying that the 2 english clubs in the running for van persie are utd and city. he was aying that utd have said that whatever city offer, utd will match.

his words not mine.
anyone shed any light on this or is it just all paper talk???

It's ****ing Phil Brown.

He's just trying to sound important. He has literally no idea what is going on. With anything.

MagicMarker

IrishAm wrote: »

No way Wenger would do business with United.

Samich

so, with ye all saying about Hernandez/Welbeck "if they're good enough they'll play"

Would ye be saying that about Rooney if RvP signed? Kag behind RvP

MagicMarker

Samich wrote: »

so, with ye all saying about Hernandez/Welbeck "if they're good enough they'll play"

Would ye be saying that about Rooney if RvP signed? Kag behind RvP

Rooney > RVP

J. Marston

larchielads wrote: »

anyone watch phil brown today on ssn. he was saying that the 2 english clubs in the running for van persie are utd and city. he was aying that utd have said that whatever city offer, utd will match.

his words not mine.
anyone shed any light on this or is it just all paper talk???

Phil Brown? What would that clown know? This is the same fella who called Pirlo homophobic because he didn't play in the Premier League...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu7LquvfeQA

If a guy like that can get info on the inner workings of transfers then it's a bit worrying.