Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Pro. F

kryogen wrote: »

Your missing the point, whether Carrick is a poor central midfielder at this level and should be replaced is not what I am talking about, and there is no way in hell if you had put Giggs/Clev (when he was fit toward the end) Pogba or Park, did we have any other options? That Scholes would have been as free to pick his passes and make forward runs as he was next to Carrick.

Rightly or wrongly Carrick is the best defensive minded midfielder in the team, who would you think would have played better beside Scholes?

Being the best defensively minded central midfielder in this team is nothing special in the slightest. We should get a better defensively reliable central midfielder because Carrick is a poor one.

kryogen wrote: »

I am not offering excuses not to look at Carrick, but to suggest looking at Carrick first and foremost is wrong, and I would stick by that.

I didn't say we should look at Carrick first and foremost. I specifically said that the defensive injuries and Evra's form fúcking up the back line was the biggest problem.

Liam O wrote: »

Tbh, even if I did think that all Carrick offers is defensive soundness which in no way do I, surely you see the importance of that in the team with Scholes not having the legs and Carrick taking all the defensive responsibility. Carrick has very good technical ability, especially when compared to his English peers. He plays the same style as Xabi Alonso though not as well obviously, Alonso is more imposing and has a better first touch/vision but Carrick is better defensively and does a good job at keeping possession. He does a much needed job in the United team.

Carrick has bloody awful technical ability. The vast majority of English central midfielders are absolute jokes in terms of technical ability. Xabi Alonso is to Carrick, what Carrick is to Paul Green. There is such a gap in ability on the ball I wouldn't bother comparing them at all.

Yeah I can see the importance of defensive reliability. But the idea that when selecting a player for that role you can sacrifice technical ability for defensive soundness is wrong imo. There is a minimum requirement of technical ability for that position at these levels and Carrick falls well below it.

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

Being the best defensively minded central midfielder in this team is nothing special in the slightest. We should get a better defensively reliable central midfielder because Carrick is a poor one.


I didn't say we should look at Carrick first and foremost. I specifically said that the defensive injuries and Evra's form fúcking up the back line was the biggest problem.

I never said it was anything special, I didnt say you said we should look at Carrick first! I was answering another poster in the first place if you look back through to the start of this, you may have got the wrong end of the stick I guess.

The poster said you cant win the league with Carrick first choice in the middle or words to that effect, this is plainly wrong, and I was pointing out to him that looking at Carrick first is foolish, plenty of other places to look first for why we did not win the league.

Pro. F

kryogen wrote: »

I never said it was anything special, I didnt say you said we should look at Carrick first! I was answering another poster in the first place if you look back through to the start of this, you may have got the wrong end of the stick I guess.

The poster said you cant win the league with Carrick first choice in the middle or words to that effect, this is plainly wrong, and I was pointing out to him that looking at Carrick first is foolish, plenty of other places to look first for why we did not win the league.

If being the best defensively minded central midfielder at United is nothing special then it shouldn't be used as supporting evidence for Carrick's worth.

You said that Carrick had nothing to do with our failure in the league. That was what I disagreed with. That is not the same as saying that there are other things that need to be fixed before him.

SirDelboy18

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick has bloody awful technical ability.

Unsure if serious.

If so then you really should watch him sometime. He certainly doesn't have "bloody awful technical ability".

Pro. F

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Unsure if serious.

If so then you really should watch him sometime. He certainly doesn't have "bloody awful technical ability".

Of course he does. His first touch is very poor and it affects his whole game. He cannot operate when the opposition pressure him.

SirDelboy18

Pro. F wrote: »

Of course he does. His first touch is very poor and it affects his whole game. He cannot operate when the opposition pressure him.

Clearly we are going to disagree here, but I feel what you are posting is just complete nonsense. He might not be of the level of Busquets, but he is very important to United, and his first touch is not poor by any means whatsoever.

Examples of his supposedly dire technical ability would be nice. And games where he can't operate under pressure.

Pro. F

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Clearly we are going to disagree here, but I feel what you are posting is just complete nonsense. He might not be of the level of Busquets, but he is very important to United, and his first touch is not poor by any means whatsoever.

Examples of his supposedly dire technical ability would be nice. And games where he can't operate under pressure.

His first touch is very poor when you compare him to the central midfielders at top level clubs around Europe.

For examples of his dire technical ability just watch him closely in pretty much any game. You will notice that his first touch and close control are unreliable and he has to compensate for that by only looking to turn on the ball when he's given space.

For a good example of where he failed to operate when pressed check Newcastle away. There are many more examples, but that is a good clear example because Newcastle came with a plan (which Pardew acknowledged afterwards) of pushing high up the pitch and squeezing our midfield. It was obvious that Carrick and Giggs couldn't handle it, they wilted and failed to get any sort of passing rhythm going.

supersean1999

carrick would not get into citys squad, simple as that, we keep saying we need a center mid player , thats partly because carrick is not doing enough, he is a genius at the 5yd pass to scholes though,

Mitch Connor

supersean1999 wrote: »

carrick would not get into citys squad, simple as that, we keep saying we need a center mid player , thats partly because carrick is not doing enough, he is a genius at the 5yd pass to scholes though,

FFS.

Barry gets into the City squad.
Milner is used as a CM in Citys squad.
OWEN HARGREAVES GOT INTO CITYS SQUAD.

But Carrick wouldn't....

Some times this thread comes out with some real gems of outright stupidity.

MagicMarker

Hey guys... guess what? ........ No guess......


..



.



First pre-season game is next week!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Quandary

I wonder will LiveOnlineFooty have the Utd preseason matches? I really dont want to have to fork out for MUTV again!

Can't wait to see the Kagawizard working his magic in a red shirt

The_Kew_Tour

Any rumours today?;)

Jax Teller

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Any rumours today?;)

Yep same guy who broke the Park move has said Baines is very close to signing .

Steve Bateman ‏@steviebateman
Understand that Manchester United are now very close to sealing a deal with Everton's Leighton Baines. #MUFC #EFC

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Any rumours today?;)

haven't seen the rumours myself (not been looking too hard) but have heard Gago and Sneijder were the new links today.

The_Kew_Tour

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Yep same guy who broke the Park move has said Baines is very close to signing .

Steve Bateman ‏@steviebateman
Understand that Manchester United are now very close to sealing a deal with Everton's Leighton Baines. #MUFC #EFC

Kinda hope it true cause I have him at 9/2 to come to United and need few quid after the weekend;).

On series note I just hope its decent price and nothing crazy. If of course its true in first place.

helimachoptor

rumours from an excellent twitter source

@heli: No rumours so far today @ 10:23 expect this to change by @10:25

miralize

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Yep same guy who broke the Park move has said Baines is very close to signing .

Steve Bateman ‏@steviebateman
Understand that Manchester United are now very close to sealing a deal with Everton's Leighton Baines. #MUFC #EFC

Steve Bateman ‏@steviebateman

Steve Bateman

Bateman

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Sean Bateman ‏@seanbateman
Understand that Manchester United are now very close to sealing a deal with Everton's Leighton Baines. #MUFC #EFC

Had to :P

Al Capwned

miralize wrote: »

Had to :P

The_Kew_Tour

Ah Jesus Christ:o:o

:pac::pac:

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

If being the best defensively minded central midfielder at United is nothing special then it shouldn't be used as supporting evidence for Carrick's worth.

You said that Carrick had nothing to do with our failure in the league. That was what I disagreed with. That is not the same as saying that there are other things that need to be fixed before him.

It was a figure of speech, quite plainly obvious too

Everybody at the club had something to do with the league campaign for Christ sake

Are you being pedantic for the sake if it?

We actually disagree on very little on this matter yet your love of the argument has me banging my head on the table!

Edit: For example, when you say Carrick has a terrbile first touch, I get what you mean, I understand that you mean in comparison to other top clubs players in his position, it is pretty obvious, I don't need to be pedantic and jump on the way you said it!

Copper_pipe

@Uk_transfernews are saying that we have signed Baines on a 4 year deal for 18 million,

kryogen

18 million?

If true I will actually throw one of my United jerseys out the back and burn it

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

18 million?

If true I will actually throw one of my United jerseys out the back and burn it

Why? Buy Baines jersey and burn it.

double GG

I'm sorry but if we have 18 million to splash out on an almost 28 year old left back surely we have 30 million plus for a midfielder....

The_Kew_Tour

Trying to find that one reliable source or true story on twitter is like trying to find needle in haystack.

kryogen

None of my regular guys are saying anything about Baines so hopefully its ****e, at 18 million it actually has to be ****e

kryogen

Lingaard looks like he is going to go on loan

Giggsy11

I dont believe this 18Million transfer fee story, but if it is true then it will be one of the higest transfer fee paid for a LB? Or even a full back?

kryogen

The Chicharito has landed

Chicharito Hernandez‏@CH14_

Finalmente en Manchester. Que tengan un buen día! Finally in Manchester. Have a nice day!

kryogen

Some more reading on the IPO here http://swissramble.blogspot.ch/2012/07/manchester-united-tuning-in-to-capital.html

Pj!

Copper_pipe wrote: »

@Uk_transfernews are saying that we have signed Baines on a 4 year deal for 18 million,

Just look through their twitter history for an idea of how true that is.

MagicMarker

Pj! wrote: »

Just look through their twitter history for an idea of how true that is.

Yes but their name is UK Transfer News so they must be legit, twitter doesn't just let anyone sign up using whatever name they want..... Oh wait. :rolleyes:

v3ttel

Liam O wrote: »

I think I'll cry if Anderson is first choice when the season starts. He's been an abomination for probably over 70% of his games the past 2 seasons when not out injured. Tries to play a killer ball everytime he gets the ball, doesn't understand playing it simple. There was one or two games I remember he was playing simple and I thought he'd turned a corner but he just went back to normal the next week.

I dont mean you specifically Liam O, load of people do this, but I really don't understand why people feel the need to do "make up" statistics to back up an argument.

9 times out of 10 this, 70% that, etc etc.

It really hurts any sort of reasonable point.

Pulling a statistic out of thin air, unless you've actually been counting/calculating, or pulled it from some valid source, does not back up your point. Especially when what you are talking about is relative in the first place.

72.4% of people know this

kryogen

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1582920_manchester-united-scrap-singing-section-plan-at-old-trafford-over-fears-of-poznan-celebration-by-city-fans

Manchester United's plans to improve the atmosphere at Old Trafford have been scuppered by City’s ‘Poznan’ celebration, the M.E.N. can reveal.

The Reds wanted to move away fans at Old Trafford to the third tier of the Sir Alex Ferguson stand in a bid to improve ‘the number, range and quality of seats’ available to home fans and introduce a ‘singing section’.

They trialled the switch at a Premier League clash with Aston Villa in April. But, following a police report on the experiment, the move was scrapped.

kryogen

Rio Ferdinand‏@rioferdy5

Film of the day: Liar Liar....starring Jim Carey. what a film!!

The cynic in me thinks there may be a little hidden message in that post

J. Marston

About as subtle as a bulldozer, Rio.

Fenix

kryogen wrote: »

Rio Ferdinand‏@rioferdy5

Film of the day: Liar Liar....starring Jim Carey. what a film!!

The cynic in me thinks there may be a little hidden message in that post

Damn straight! Everyone know the real sat of that show was the lil kid, Justin Cooper.

Oh Rio! You!!!

recyclebin

Should Rio be making comments like that when the court case is on going.

kryogen

Rio doesn't really need to be getting publicly involved though tbh

This graph is kinda irkfull isn't it?http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rGdahh1boss/T_p_co0mMYI/AAAAAAAAGFY/JswCfEIT0Iw/s400/24+Utd+Use+of+Funds.jpg

Says that United since 2009 have spent 77% of funds on bond or loan repayments compared with 12% (net) on player transfers!

Anybody have any mitigating factors behind this or is that pretty accurate?

Will I Amnt

Do you think if he's found guilty,he will join in the celebrations with the Ferdinands?

Giggsy11

I had a chat with my friend yesterday (on Twitter) about whether we need Dembele or not. Looking at how many CMs moved to other clubs for such a low price, we really missed the trick by not signing CM last year or before that.

Moutinho for 10Million, Vidal for 10Million, Witsel for 8Million, all 3 would have been upgrade on every CM we have. For 18 Million we could have singed 2 class CMs.

Your Airbag

kryogen wrote: »

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1582920_manchester-united-scrap-singing-section-plan-at-old-trafford-over-fears-of-poznan-celebration-by-city-fans

I was at this match and in the 2nd tier directly below the Villa Fans. The Villa fans were very vocal (especially towards Young after he "won" the penalty) and I'm assuming the logic was that when the away fans start singing, rather than being in the somewhat isolated part of the stadium that was the old away fans section they would be surrounded by many more fans in the Sir Alex stand that would respond by out singing them, or that having them out of the way in the highest tier would make them harder to hear?

If that was the logic it didn't really work, although a few times the UTD support responded with our own songs the Villa fans were by far the more vocal of the two sets of fans. I constantly worried about having something landing on me from above, whether it be rubbish or a fine lump of cleared throat, and was frequently looking up at the tier above. Not once did I see a Villa fan at the edge of the tier so I'm guessing the stewards did a good job of keeping them away from the edge and preventing missiles being thrown, or Villa fans are just generally well behaved either way the constant worrying about it was an unwelcome distraction and took away from my enjoyment of the match a lot. Plus Rooney was absolute w4nk that day .

Their were a few very young kids, 8-12 range in and around where I was sitting that day with their paretns and they were also constantly looking up over their shoulders and had not a worried but subdued expression on thier faces, as if they didn't know how to react to the atmosphere. Some of the chanting had a lot of foul language as you would expect and with the way the match unfolded that day, Young diving again so soon after doing it against Fulham and with him being an ex Villa player, it led to the Villa fans having extra reason to feel hard done by. I think it was a very bad/unlucky day the UTD officals happened to pick to run this experiment.

Something else needs to be done to improve the atmosphere/away fans situation and to be honest I didn't have a problem with the old arrangement but putting away fans in a tier above the home support is a big no no for me. We don't want another repeat or Ireland v England at Lansdown road and as I said nothing happened but it was always in the back of my mind.

With such a multicultural fanbase attending the matches its always going to be hard to get that diehard local Anfield type of atmosphere going. Personally one thing that I find helps me and my mates to be more vocal during the games is to get bladdered in a pub just before kick off

kryogen

Reports that United have agreed a compensation fee for Pogba

http://academy-football.net/2012/07/09/manchester-united-agree-compensation-deal-for-pogba/

Manchester United have agreed a deal with Italian champions Juventus for the signature of midfielder Paul Pogba.



Talksport reports that the Red Devils will receive compensation of £800,000 from Juventus for the 19-year-old after his contract expired this summer.

United had wanted to keep Pogba but the France Under-19 international followed fellow team-mates Ezekiel Fryers and Ravel Morrison in turning down contract offers from the Old Trafford club.

The Frenchman played seven times for United last season but has decided on a move to Italy, signing a four-year deal with the Old Lady.

There are reports also that John Cofie will be joining Seff Utd on loan, good move for him if true

Pete O'Rourke‏@SkySportsPeteO

Sky Sports understands Manchester United youngster John Cofie is poised to join Sheffield United on loan. #MUFC #SUFC

SirDelboy18

Pro. F wrote: »

His first touch is very poor when you compare him to the central midfielders at top level clubs around Europe.

For examples of his dire technical ability just watch him closely in pretty much any game. You will notice that his first touch and close control are unreliable and he has to compensate for that by only looking to turn on the ball when he's given space.

For a good example of where he failed to operate when pressed check Newcastle away. There are many more examples, but that is a good clear example because Newcastle came with a plan (which Pardew acknowledged afterwards) of pushing high up the pitch and squeezing our midfield. It was obvious that Carrick and Giggs couldn't handle it, they wilted and failed to get any sort of passing rhythm going.

Yeah because Giggs was beyond awful last season. Games where Giggs started often resulted in defeat due to his poor performances. Park also played that game, don't think much more needs to be said. Carrick was one of our better players that night iirc.

Pro. F

kryogen wrote: »

It was a figure of speech, quite plainly obvious too

Everybody at the club had something to do with the league campaign for Christ sake

Are you being pedantic for the sake if it?

We actually disagree on very little on this matter yet your love of the argument has me banging my head on the table!

Edit: For example, when you say Carrick has a terrbile first touch, I get what you mean, I understand that you mean in comparison to other top clubs players in his position, it is pretty obvious, I don't need to be pedantic and jump on the way you said it!

I wasn't being pedantic, nor agitating for an argument.

When I read you saying that it wasn't Carrick's fault for the team's failure in the league, that looks to me like you are saying replacing him in the first team isn't very important. I disagree with that. No need to bang your head on the table about it.

Pro. F

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Yeah because Giggs was beyond awful last season. Games where Giggs started often resulted in defeat due to his poor performances. Park also played that game, don't think much more needs to be said. Carrick was one of our better players that night iirc.

No, Carrick was absolute scutter. Giggs was poor, so was Carrick.

For another game where Carrick failed when pressured on the ball check the game against Spurs in the second half of the season. He was playing alongside Scholes that game. Spurs pressed high and our midfield couldn't get anything going. It was Spurs playing two out and out centre forwards (which meant they lacked a creative spark) and our perfectly timed against-the-run-of-play first two goals that saved that day, because our midfield were completely outplayed.

Giggsy11

Craig Norwood ‏@CraigNorwood

Now Official that Ji-Sung Park has joined Queens Park Rangers after 7 years, 134 appearances & 19 goals for Manchester United #MUFC #QPR

Good luck Park.

Al Capwned

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Craig Norwood ‏@CraigNorwood


Good luck Park.

Just confirmed there on SSN

Giggsy11

Here is the confirmation.

JerryHandbag

So long Parky. Found his first goal on youtube, never actually saw it til now. Korean commentary makes it even better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odmjj-UWuj0

Best of luck to him, always gave 100% in a red shirt.