Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

You are going to use Carrick not being in the English squad as a barometer?

GTFO with that bull****

How does your logic explain Emile Heskey so?

Many have tried to explain the phenomena that is Emile Heskey.

BUT NOBODY CAN

homerjay2005

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I get that you have a gripe with Fergie Homer but tarnished his legacy (even a little) is bollocks

why is it bollocks? its f*cking bang on. last season we were appalling for most of it and had some of the worst results in the last 20 years.

fergie is not beyond criticism , if he doesnt sign the CM the club clearly needs this year, it poses serious questions over him. the next 3 or 4 weeks are just just huge for him.

the team was on its knees last christmas with injuries and rather than keep it within the team, fine the players, he drops rooney, evans and gibson for having a dinner during christmas...those 3 points against blackburn were crucial and that was all down to fergies pride and acting the bollocks.

losing to basle, crap tactics in europe, losing to palace, playing park in big games when he clearly was not up to it, dropping valencia against city and then f*cking up the subs...

but all of that would have been meaningless had he signed the player he was given 40million euro to sign but he decided to spend it on Jones and Young instead.

supersean1999

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Carrick should be ahead of both of those as CM for England, the fact you can't see this speaks of your hatred towards Carrick rather than an honest appraisal of his performances and contribution to United.

He does have his faults - he has been found wanting in certain games, as mentioned, but the level of hatred you have towards him is clearly colouring your judgement of him. As a player to be replaced at United he is well down the list, and especially well down the list of central midfield players.

i dont hate anybody, where was hate mentioned silly man, dis like him as a player, you admit he has faults and has been found wanting in certain games, ill add , found wanting in a lot of important games, we prob need 3 new center mids, but thats not going to happen is it,

Jimmy Iovine

Sacramento wrote: »

Many have tried to explain the phenomena that is Emile Heskey.

BUT NOBODY CAN

"Every team needs The Powerhouse"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsIU0FoVJ0

Paul Tergat

homerjay2005 wrote: »

why is it bollocks? its f*cking bang on. last season we were appalling for most of it and had some of the worst results in the last 20 years.

Its not bang on. You have gone way over the top.

Yeah we had some bad results but were only seconds away from back to back titles. However, it doesnt mean, as you say here

homerjay2005 wrote: »

fergie is not beyond criticism , if he doesnt sign the CM the club clearly needs this year, it poses serious questions over him. the next 3 or 4 weeks are just just huge for him.

Agree. He is not beyond criticism and of course he has made mistakes. The issue however is your suggestion he will be tainting his legacy. Again, thats bollocks and I think you are exaggerating.

DM_7

Of course, spend forty million on one player and be back to square one when he is injured.

Maybe it would be better to focus on the fact SAF made three very good signings in De Gea, Young and Jones. De Gea and Jones will be big players over a number of years. Young is an important option to give a third winger. An option United needed. Signing a midfielder ahead of Jones and Young would have left other areas exposed.

it was clear at the start of last season United were in the process of developing a new team. That work is ongoing. Last season started well and after the city game, when reality sunk in, SAF went back to basics. He tried to make the team hard to beat but instantly Uniteds attack became rigid and at times predictable.

Hopefully Kagawa will be able to play a role in fixing this.

That one signing (as we have Rooney) allows a new fluid way of playing to be developed. Two players can take on the central role of taking the ball in and playing in other players. United could not develop that game before now as we only had one player that could play the role Kagawa and Rooney will share in 12/13.

a more fluid attack should make life easier for the likes of Carrick as the attackers won't be easily marked and actually give him a good passing option even when under pressure.

Smegball

I don't think anyone in years to come will be thinking his legacy was tarnished last season because of a few results from a team in transition. I think they are more likely to remember all the title wins, the late comebacks, the at times brilliantly exciting football, Moscow 08 and the treble in 99.

But hey, Blackburn defeat in December 2011 will be the thing everyone remembers!!

KH25

Edit: my bad, forgot there was a ticket forum :pac:

Anyway I think it might be a bit much to say Fergie has tarnished his legacy. Questions are being asked definitely but he hasn't really had a massive failure. We only lost the league on GD.

The_Kew_Tour

Good to hear Tony Coton is on the mend after his heart attack.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/sport/football/s/1582939_former-city-and-united-man-tony-coton-on-mend-after-heart-attack

Liam O

kryogen wrote: »

Not true Im afraid

Edit: I should go further, he was rated as one of the brightest attacking midfielders in the world for his age, he moved to Porto very quickly and he was very unfortunate to break his leg quickly there, he still managed to score a couple of goals in his 9 starts in the league that year but when he came to United he was played as a DM, an AM a box to box guy, it seemed like Fergie couldnt make his mind up about him, and of course it doesnt help a player if he has 2 or 3 good games in a row then get dropped for no apparent reason for the next 2 games!

Fergie has done this with midfielders before so it is not exactly a shock, I don't think Ando would have been a 20 goal a season attacking midfielder, but he would have been a far more creative force in the mould of Ganso or Lucas (to name two current Brazilians) if he had been developed in his natural position.

Just my opinion of course, and the hate directed to Ando (just about overtaken the hate that was directed at Nani) here leads me to believe it won't be popular, but c'est la vie!

He was shambolic around the box though in his first season. His best attributes are his dribbling and speed and he was using this to get into good positions and then taking terrible shots or trying some intricate pass when there were easier options on. This style will work in some games and everything will come off but in the majority of games the defense will come out on top against someone only playing difficult passes. His best games in a United shirt have been when he plays it simple.

Nani always had the attributes and if anyone should have a gripe with Fergie it's him. If Nani had been given the chances Anderson was he'd have developed far quicker. His 2nd season took him back 2 years in development imo. After his first season in which he only finished behind Rooney in assists he only played 13 games in the league and was lambasted everytime he came in after a 2 or 3 week absence and believe it or not, wasn't sharp enough. Pretty much everytime Nani has been given a consistent run in the team he's performed and Fergie really held him back that year.

Now Anderson did only play in 17 league games that season but with Europe and the rest of the tournaments he made the same amount of overall appearances as the previous year whereas Nani's entire number of appearances was only a couple more than his league tally alone the year before. Anderson was never really held back, he just didn't develop.

Pj!

homerjay2005 wrote: »

why is it bollocks? its f*cking bang on. last season we were appalling for most of it and had some of the worst results in the last 20 years.

fergie is not beyond criticism , if he doesnt sign the CM the club clearly needs this year, it poses serious questions over him. the next 3 or 4 weeks are just just huge for him.

the team was on its knees last christmas with injuries and rather than keep it within the team, fine the players, he drops rooney, evans and gibson for having a dinner during christmas...those 3 points against blackburn were crucial and that was all down to fergies pride and acting the bollocks.

losing to basle, crap tactics in europe, losing to palace, playing park in big games when he clearly was not up to it, dropping valencia against city and then f*cking up the subs...

but all of that would have been meaningless had he signed the player he was given 40million euro to sign but he decided to spend it on Jones and Young instead.

With all due respect homerjay, I think you need to take your head out of your ass.

United finished on 89 points. Points that would have won any Premiership in the last 5 seasons.
United scored more goals and conceded less than when they won the Premiership the year before. They kept more clean sheets. They gained nine more points.

They finished 19 points ahead of 3rd position. Lost the title on goal difference. With a team which as you say yourself, was on it's knees with injuries.

And you say there could be serious questions over Alex Ferguson?

Haha. Jesus Christ.


The rest of the managers are wondering how the f*ck he does it!

Owen_S

I can't wait for the start of the season, all the summer BS of hypothetical midfielders really drags on.

Will I Amnt

Pj! wrote: »

With all due respect homerjay, I think you need to take your head out of your ass.

United finished on 89 points. Points that would have won any Premiership in the last 5 seasons.
United scored more goals and conceded less than when they won the Premiership the year before. They kept more clean sheets. They gained nine more points.

They finished 19 points ahead of 3rd position. Lost the title on goal difference. With a team which as you say yourself, was on it's knees with injuries.

And you say there could be serious questions over Alex Ferguson?

Haha. Jesus Christ.


The rest of the managers are wondering how the f*ck he does it!

While I don't exactly agree with homerjay there's always the argument that we would have wrapped the league up long before the last day if we had addressed the problems in cm.

Pj!

cambo2008 wrote: »

While I don't exactly agree with homerjay there's always the argument that we would have wrapped the league up long before the last day if we had addressed the problems in cm.

True. Or if we didn't lose Fletcher in November. Or Vidic in December.

But hey I'm with the majority and have been hoping for a top CM since last summer.

Kylo Ren

Ji-sung Park's parting words

In an emotional sign-off to his Manchester United career, Ji-sung Park admits he'll never forget his seven years at Old Trafford.

Park joined the Reds from PSV Eindhoven in 2005, played 205 times and collected eight major honours, including four league titles and the FIFA Club World Cup.

"My time at United will last in my heart for the rest of my life," he told ManUtd.com.

"It’s been a great privilege to be part of such a great team, to have won so much and to have played with special teammates and for the greatest manager in the game.

"I would like to thank everybody at the club who give their best every single day to put every player in the best condition to enjoy their football and achieve success."

Park was a firm fans' favourite at Old Trafford and his name was often sung loudly by United supporters, even when he wasn't on the pitch.

“The fans have been fantastic to me and I will always remember them with great affection," he said. "Now, I’m looking forward to giving everything for a new challenge at QPR, where I will bring all my ambition and spirit I have gathered at United. [Those qualities] will be with me forever."

Pj!

Gossip Time!
United Delegation arriving in Brazil today (Tuesday) to open talks with Sao Paulo for Lucas Moura

Daily Mail. sadface

kryogen

Who told them a United delegation are going to Brazil? How do they know they are going to Sao Paulo?

I would like to see Lucas at the club alright, would be astonished if it happened, and with Kag signed it would seem a strange one but if it happens Ill be happy overall, the only way I can really see it is if Ando goes the other way maybe?

99.5% sure its bull**** anyway

Kylo Ren

If we sign Moura then him or Kag will be playing CM.

UnitedIrishman

Really, really doubt we're after Lucas Moura.

For one, we don't need a player in his position. Also he's a major risk buy - €30m or so for a kid that's only played in Brazil for 2 and a bit seasons. Fergie doesn't normally go after players of this ilk.

So this is all trash paper talk, and the likelihood is that he'll stay in Brazil for another year.

kryogen

Wouldn't fancy Lucas in the centre of midfield, I don't think I have ever seen him play as a traditional CM, attacking midfielder or at times a winger even but not part of a 2 man midfield and he is quite small too, 5"7 or 5"8 iirc.

lol went to wiki him to check his height and it says his current club is Inter Milan Brilliant!

Even better! they have been at the stats and have him as played 58 times for Sao Paulo scoring 478 goals Some strike rate!!!

kryogen

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Really, really doubt we're after Lucas Moura.

For one, we don't need a player in his position. Also he's a major risk buy - €30m or so for a kid that's only played in Brazil for 2 and a bit seasons. Fergie doesn't normally go after players of this ilk.

So this is all trash paper talk, and the likelihood is that he'll stay in Brazil for another year.

I agree its all trash paper talk, but from watching him a lot over the last year ( I gamble too much) he really impresses me, and he has won a few individual honours to back up that he can play alright, but I think he would be a huge gamble, the type that Fergie does not take, too much money going by the reports, would be required to make the deal happen.

If he could be gotten any cheaper or with a player swap deal then maybe, but no way I can see it happening other then that, and if Im honest, I just dont see it happening full stop. Inter would be a good shout, either of the Milans really (depeding on Ganso) the big two in Spain have no need for him, so him staying in Brazil is the safest bet for the moment anyway

Samich

So, can people explain the type of midfielder ye actually want? Seems ye want a Scholes replacement. Not many like him about in all fairness. Look at the other teams in the league and who their "scholes" is. Yaya toure doesn't count as he's a 1 of a kind imo and is outrageously good.

Do ye want a box to box?

Someone to give the ball to the creative players to score the goals?

A player to break down opposition attacks?

Last season Kagawa was needed. Rooney isn't as dangerous far out from Goal.

Carrick with his good positioning and Cleverly with his decent all around game in there with Kagawa creating isn't too bad.

Would love a combative midfielder with decent passing like Gareth Barry.

kryogen

Thought it was pretty clear the type of midfielder wanted, certainly by me anyway as I have repeated it about 50 times in this thread alone!

Samich

Well Javi Martinez seemed to be the dream signing. He was played in CB. Just looked like an upgrade on Carrick tbh.

Dozyart

if there is a delegation going to Brazil it could be to try and get Ganso either....if there is even such a delegation going anywhere

J. Marston

Keno 92 wrote: »

Ji-sung Park's parting words

Buy him back and double his wages!

kryogen

Samich wrote: »

Well Javi Martinez seemed to be the dream signing. He was played in CB. Just looked like an upgrade on Carrick tbh.

Have you watched a lot of Martinez yourself?

Jax Teller

If I has to describe Martinez i would say a lot like Xabi Alonso but a lot better defensively them him .

kryogen

I don't think he has the passing range of Xabi Alonso, not yet anyway, but he is an excellent all round midfielder, he is tough in the tackle, strong on the ball and a real threat in the air with his height. He is only going to get better as his positioning improves because other then that, and maybe his hot headed streak, he has no weakness.

What appeals to me most about him besides his technical abilities is that he is a genuine leader, he is a great presence in the team and commands respect from his teammates and opposition alike. He is very unlucky that Spain have such players like Xabi Alonso, Busquests and Xavi ahead of him or he would already be a seasoned international imo.

He is doing a good job at centre back, or he has done last year, lets see if the new coach uses him there, but he is at his best in midfield. Well able to start attacks with his sharp passing as well as breaking up opposition play, in short, yes he is pretty much my ideal signing but he is in no way realistic so I don't see the point in discussing him as a target if I'm honest

kryogen

Even though I don't believe the link to him, it gives me an excuse to put this up here

This "delegation" thats going to Brazil to sign him, is there not already one out there to sign Ganso?

Felexicon

kryogen wrote: »

I don't think he has the passing range of Xabi Alonso, not yet anyway, but he is an excellent all round midfielder, he is tough in the tackle, strong on the ball and a real threat in the air with his height. He is only going to get better as his positioning improves because other then that, and maybe his hot headed streak, he has no weakness.

What appeals to me most about him besides his technical abilities is that he is a genuine leader, he is a great presence in the team and commands respect from his teammates and opposition alike. He is very unlucky that Spain have such players like Xabi Alonso, Busquests and Xavi ahead of him or he would already be a seasoned international imo.

He is doing a good job at centre back, or he has done last year, lets see if the new coach uses him there, but he is at his best in midfield. Well able to start attacks with his sharp passing as well as breaking up opposition play, in short, yes he is pretty much my ideal signing but he is in no way realistic so I don't see the point in discussing him as a target if I'm honest

I'm going to have to call BS on this. There is no way you could possibley know these things about him. What players have you spoken to who told you he commands thier respect and has a great pressence in the team. These are character traits that would need to be witnessed first hand in the dressing room/training ground etc.
Also saying he's unlucky that Spain have players like Xavi and Alonso is crazy. It's like saying Valdes is unlucky they have Iker. It's not unluky they are just better players hence the reason they have been capped more.

kryogen

Felexicon wrote: »

I'm going to have to call BS on this. There is no way you could possibley know these things about him. What players have you spoken to who told you he commands thier respect and has a great pressence in the team. These are character traits that would need to be witnessed first hand in the dressing room/training ground etc.
Also saying he's unlucky that Spain have players like Xavi and Alonso is crazy. It's like saying Valdes is unlucky they have Iker. It's not unluky they are just better players hence the reason they have been capped more.

Eh, by watching games? Were you not able to tell that Roy Keane had presence, leadership and commanded respect from watching him on the field?

Viera? Tony Adams? John Terry even?

Learn to use your eyes?

It is very unlucky that he has those greats ahead of him yes, but he won't for much longer, he is young you know, do you actually who he is?

And another thing, how is comparing Javi Martinez to Xabi and Xavi any way similar to Valdes and Casillas regarding how many times they have been capped! Valdes and Casillas are the same age roughly, there is 10 years between Xabi Alonso and Xavi and Javi Martinez! How could he failry be judged against them for international caps?

bucketybuck

Samich wrote: »

Do ye want a box to box?

Someone to give the ball to the creative players to score the goals?

A player to break down opposition attacks?

I remember when all that was allowed to be the same person.

Felexicon

kryogen wrote: »

Eh, by watching games? Were you not able to tell that Roy Keane had presence, leadership and commanded respect from watching him on the field?

Viera? Tony Adams? John Terry even?

Learn to use your eyes?

It is very unlucky that he has those greats ahead of him yes, but he won't for much longer, he is young you know, do you actually who he is?

And another thing, how is comparing Javi Martinez to Xabi and Xavi any way similar to Valdes and Casillas regarding how many times they have been capped! Valdes and Casillas are the same age roughly, there is 10 years between Xabi Alonso and Xavi and Javi Martinez! How could he failry be judged against them for international caps?

Yes I do know who he is. I have no problem with the rest of the post but this crap about his character is crazy. It's impossible to know simply by watching games. For all you know the rest of the team could hate him and have so little respect for him they use his boots as a urinal while he's in the shower after training.
I know how to use my eyes which is how I could see through the bs in your post.

kryogen

Felexicon wrote: »

Yes I do know who he is. I have no problem with the rest of the post but this crap about his character is crazy. It's impossible to know simply by watching games. For all you know the rest of the team could hate him and have so little respect for him they use his boots as a urinal while he's in the shower after training.
I know how to use my eyes which is how I could see through the bs in your post.

Your just talking **** tbh

Al Capwned

Felexicon wrote: »

Also saying he's unlucky that Spain have players like Xavi and Alonso is crazy. It's like saying Valdes is unlucky they have Iker. It's not unluky they are just better players hence the reason they have been capped more.

You've just disproved your own point there mate, which is not an easy thing to do!

Of course it's unlucky. Valdes is a top quality goalkeeper, as is Reina (apart from a mostly poor season last season).
Both of these men are unlucky in that Spain have Casillas, because if the Madrid keeper wasn't as good as he is, they would have more caps, both of them.

Now I have only seen Martinez for about two or three full games so am not in a position to comment on how good he actually is, but some posters on here are, and he is obviously a fantastic footballer. And of course Martinez is unlucky that Spain have midfielders of the quality of Alonso, Xavi etc.

Martinez, Valdes, Mata, Navas - All spanish players who are seriously talented footballers who are unlucky that there are better players in the squad ahead of them.

kryogen

Agreed, it is a ridiculously talented group of players, and the scary thing is they have so much talent in the crop coming through also!

Felexicon

kryogen wrote: »

Your just talking **** tbh

OK. So you're not willing to the debate the point at all? If that's so, there really isn't much point in you posting on an open forum. People are going to disagree with you all the time and your going to have to back up your point.

Felexicon

alproctor wrote: »

You've just disproved your own point there mate, which is not an easy thing to do!

Of course it's unlucky. Valdes is a top quality goalkeeper, as is Reina (apart from a mostly poor season last season).
Both of these men are unlucky in that Spain have Casillas, because if the Madrid keeper wasn't as good as he is, they would have more caps, both of them.

Now I have only seen Martinez for about two or three full games so am not in a position to comment on how good he actually is, but some posters on here are, and he is obviously a fantastic footballer. And of course Martinez is unlucky that Spain have midfielders of the quality of Alonso, Xavi etc.

Martinez, Valdes, Mata, Navas - All spanish players who are seriously talented footballers who are unlucky that there are better players in the squad ahead of them.

No. That's like saying you or I are unlucky not to play for Man Utd. We're not unlucky, we're not good enough. Same thing in this case.
Gary Cahill was UNLUCKY not to play in the Euros because of injury.

kryogen

Felexicon wrote: »

OK. So you're not willing to the debate the point at all? If that's so, there really isn't much point in you posting on an open forum. People are going to disagree with you all the time and your going to have to back up your point.

I have already given a reasoned post, you have not. As has been pointed out to you already by another poster, you disproved your own point already!

You try too hard to get a one up on me is all, just relax and the day will come for you eventually. You are not stupid enough to really believe it is impossible to gauge a players presence or leadership abilities unless you are in the dressing room with him so your point is non existent tbh. You don't want it debated.

In fact debating it would only make you look foolish, take this to pm with me if you want to continue because the thread has been going ok the last while without bitching.

Edit: In fact, I will send you a pm now

Al Capwned

Felexicon wrote: »

No. That's like saying you or I are unlucky not to play for Man Utd. We're not unlucky, we're not good enough. Same thing in this case.

I'll try make this simple....

1. I am a brilliant goalkeeper, and I play for Barcelona and am on the Spanish National squad.

2. Iker Casillas is also a brilliant goalkeeper, and is better than I am.

3. I am unlucky that Casillas is that much better than me, because I am good enough for international football.

Felexicon wrote: »

Gary Cahill was UNLUCKY not to play in the Euros because of injury.

Correct.

Felexicon

kryogen wrote: »

I have already given a reasoned post, you have not. As has been pointed out to you already by another poster, you disproved your own point already!

You try too hard to get a one up on me is all, just relax and the day will come for you eventually. You are not stupid enough to really believe it is impossible to gauge a players presence or leadership abilities unless you are in the dressing room with him so your point is non existent tbh. You don't want it debated.

In fact debating it would only make you look foolish, take this to pm with me if you want to continue because the thread has been going ok the last while without bitching.

Edit: In fact, I will send you a pm now

I have given a reasoned post, you simply don't agree with it and as you use this thread as your personal soapbox you take grave offence when someone doesn't get on bended knee and hail you as the great oracle of all things United.
You must think all debates make people look foolish as you never seem to enter any.
I'm not trying to get one up on you, I don't care about you that much. I'm just sick of people not being allowed to question your posts without getting it in the neck. Not everyone, including myself are having a go when we disagree with you it's simply a difference of opinion

Felexicon

alproctor wrote: »

I'll try make this simple....

1. I am a brilliant goalkeeper, and I play for Barcelona and am on the Spanish National squad.

2. Iker Casillas is also a brilliant goalkeeper, and is better than I am.

3. I am unlucky that Casillas is that much better than me, because I am good enough for international football.




Correct.

Ok fair enough, we disagree on the meaning of unlucky in this context. No big deal.
I would say that Valdes' skill set isn't as good as Casillas and that's why he doesn't play. It has nothing to do with luck.
Again, no big deal though

kryogen

Meh, to borrow a phrase from LL, I put my views across forcefully alright. If you don't like how I post I have already told you what to do.

Me and Pro F regularly joust with each other here without having to resort to the ****e you come out with, he puts his views across, I put mine. The difference is, even if he has a different opinion to me, his one usually makes sense. I respect everybodys opinion as long as it makes sense. People talk ****e, I have a low tolerance to it.

/done

Felexicon

kryogen wrote: »

Meh, to borrow a phrase from LL, I put my views across forcefully alright. If you don't like how I post I have already told you what to do.

Me and Pro F regularly joust with each other here without having to resort to the ****e you come out with, he puts his views across, I put mine. The difference is, even if he has a different opinion to me, his one usually makes sense. I respect everybodys opinion as long as it makes sense. People talk ****e, I have a low tolerance to it.

/done

Jesus, you must hate yourself then

PhlegmyMoses

Felexicon absolutely has a point. Loads of waffle posted on this thread about players who people have barely seen (not saying people have barely seen Martinez) and intangible concepts such as being a great leader and being respected by his peers are really only traits that can be gleaned through close proximity to the player.

Edit: I also think that Kryogen's use of terms such as stupid and foolish when referring to people makes him look incredibly childish. You were called out on a post. That's what happens when you put something up on a thread that has so many posters and so many people viewing it. It's not a blog. Deal with it.

homerjay2005

kryogen wrote: »

Thought it was pretty clear the type of midfielder wanted, certainly by me anyway as I have repeated it about 50 times in this thread alone!

we need more than one type of midfielder to be honest! a play maker who can create things in tight games like scholes was doing in his prime and then somebody who can be the box to box midfielder, getting on the end of things, adding a burst of pace to our static presence there at the moment.

or basically an upgrade of scholes and fletcher at their peak....not easy, but thats the level we are talking. but instead we will get Baines and a winger probably!

kryogen

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Felexicon absolutely has a point. Loads of waffle posted on this thread about players who people have barely seen (not saying people have barely seen Martinez) and intangible concepts such as being a great leader and being respected by his peers are really only traits that can be gleaned through close proximity to the player.

Why do you think this is so? Genuinely, how do you come to the conclusion that you would be unable to pick up from watching a player/team play many times whether a player is a good leader, or whether his team mates respect him or not?

Would a player being made captain of his national team be a good indicator to you of how he is viewed by his manager in terms of leadership?

ceegee

Felexicon wrote: »

alproctor wrote: »

You've just disproved your own point there mate, which is not an easy thing to do!

Of course it's unlucky. Valdes is a top quality goalkeeper, as is Reina (apart from a mostly poor season last season).
Both of these men are unlucky in that Spain have Casillas, because if the Madrid keeper wasn't as good as he is, they would have more caps, both of them.

Now I have only seen Martinez for about two or three full games so am not in a position to comment on how good he actually is, but some posters on here are, and he is obviously a fantastic footballer. And of course Martinez is unlucky that Spain have midfielders of the quality of Alonso, Xavi etc.

Martinez, Valdes, Mata, Navas - All spanish players who are seriously talented footballers who are unlucky that there are better players in the squad ahead of them.

No. That's like saying you or I are unlucky not to play for Man Utd. We're not unlucky, we're not good enough. Same thing in this case.
Gary Cahill was UNLUCKY not to play in the Euros because of injury.

But Valdes IS good enough to play for Spain. If he was around at any other point in time im the last century hed have collected far more caps. He's unlucky to happen to be from the same country and of the same age group as one of the top keepers of all time. Valdes is IMO in the top 5 keepers in the world, to say that a player of that quality not getting his game isnt unlucky is idiocy

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we need more than one type of midfielder to be honest! a play maker who can create things in tight games like scholes was doing in his prime and then somebody who can be the box to box midfielder, getting on the end of things, adding a burst of pace to our static presence there at the moment.

or basically an upgrade of scholes and fletcher at their peak....not easy, but thats the level we are talking. but instead we will get Baines and a winger probably!

Your probably right, I think it depends on the formation Fergie is going to use really. Two players would be ideal, but I will be happy with one, just one quality central midfielder please!!