Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen

He is our most inconsistent winger alright, he can be brilliant at times and very anonymous others, I think it goes with the position they play to an extent.

PHB

I think Nani is our best winger. However, I think our best wing combination is Valencia on the right and either Nani or Young on the left.

Nani isn't great on the left. But he's able for it, much better than Valencia.

Nani's problem is that Valencia is too one footed imo.

If you put Nani on the right, he'd be our best player. But then you'd have Valencia, our 2nd best winger, doing nothing much at all. Poor purchasing decisions from Fergie imo.

Eathrin

Isn't Bale just a slightly worse Valencia?
I never saw why he would be worth the crazy money he's apparently valued at.

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

One thing that bugs the hell out of me with Young is his tendency not to use his pace more often. He has a bad habit of chasing a ball and with his pace gets there first, but then he just stops, traps the ball and tries beat his man, when instead he should use his pace and let ball do work.

Noticed it a lot in Sweden game.

It's because of his right footedness imo. He can destroy fullbacks tricking around with his right footed crosses and cut backs many games, but it seems like he has more stinkers of games then he needs to only because of his wrongsided style. Very annoying as you say.

kryogen

PHB wrote: »

I think Nani is our best winger. However, I think our best wing combination is Valencia on the right and either Nani or Young on the left.

Nani isn't great on the left. But he's able for it, much better than Valencia.

Nani's problem is that Valencia is too one footed imo.

If you put Nani on the right, he'd be our best player. But then you'd have Valencia, our 2nd best winger, doing nothing much at all. Poor purchasing decisions from Fergie imo.

Its one reason why I think Fergie would possibly sell Nani, but only if he was bringing in a top class dedicated left winger.

Fall_Guy

barneygumble99 wrote: »

gareth bale has a way higher goals per game ration than nani if you take into account the last two seasons that bale has been deployed as a winger.

Where are you getting this from? In the last two seasons Bale has made 66 premier league appearances and scored 16 Goals. In the same time Nani has made 62 appearances and scored 17 goals.*

*Wikipedia....i know its wikipedia, but it tends to be accurate for goal / appearance stats

barneygumble99

http://premiersoccerstats.com/epl.html

beckham a goal every 4.2 games

nani a goal every 5.1 games

bale a goal every 3.8 over the last two seasons

kryogen

Nani Stats

2011/12

Prem Games Started - 24
Games as sub - 5
Goals - 8
Assists - 10

2010/11

Prem Games started - 31
Games as sub - 2
Goals - 9
Assists - 14

Gareth Bale Stats

2011/12
Prem Games Started - 36
Games as sub - 0
Goals - 9
Assists - 10

2010/11
Prem Games Started - 29
Games as sub - 1
Goals - 7
Assists - 1

Pretty clear winner there on the last two years.

Red Crow

barneygumble99 wrote: »

http://premiersoccerstats.com/epl.html

beckham a goal every 4.2 games

nani a goal every 5.1 games

bale a goal every 3.8 over the last two seasons

But Nani is a better player. Selling Nani would be crazy for us. We have two fantastic wingers in Nani and Valencia and Young can fill in a couple of positions as well as being a decent winger.

Nani's delivery when he's on the top of his game is top class. He must be given a new contract.

barneygumble99

ok but nani has been a winger since day one whereas bale has been a winger for the last two seasons, bale is nearly 4 years younger than him and in my opinion his potential is greater than nani's. at this stage of his career nani should be delivering a lot more consistently than he does.

kryogen

barneygumble99 wrote: »

ok but nani has been a winger since day one whereas bale has been a winger for the last two seasons, bale is nearly 4 years younger than him and in my opinion his potential is greater than nani's. at this stage of his career nani should be delivering a lot more consistently than he does.

Bale has been playing regularly since he was what? 17? He will be 23 in a month and was only moved to left wing because he was so bad at left back that nobody would even take him off Harry!

He has been playing football at a good standard since 2007, Nani has had to adjust to a new country, a new league and new style of play and has had to live in the shadow of Ronaldo.

Gareth Bale is a good player, but he is certainly over hyped by the media and his age is misleading to how experienced he is. Also there is just over 2 and a half years between them, not almost 4


Nani Nov 17th 1986
Bale July 16th 1989

Sorry, just read your last sentence again, have you not looked at Nanis stats!

Pro. F

barneygumble99 wrote: »

ok but nani has been a winger since day one whereas bale has been a winger for the last two seasons, bale is nearly 4 years younger than him and in my opinion his potential is greater than nani's. at this stage of his career nani should be delivering a lot more consistently than he does.

But you've used Nani's whole time at United, including the first few seasons when he wasn't getting played any way regularly and he hadn't yet come good. It's ridiculously biased to hold that against him now when he is producing consistently these last two and half seasons.

You have also not included assists. How many PL wingers are producing goals and assists more consistently than Nani in these last two seasons?

barneygumble99

my original comment about nani was regarding tonights match and his performance. according to wikipedia united paid €25 million for him. as a united supporter, if i was watchin the match tonight with united having just signed him and was looking forward to seeing what he could bring to the team , in general id be disappointed. it was a fantastic assist and a horrible miss but when people are talking about him being a great player 'on his day'. would everyone be so excited about kagawa if he was described as a great player 'on his day'. kagawa's stats for the last two seasons show a goal every 2.3 games and an assist every 4 games roughly. admittedly he plays a different position to nani but i hope he continues that prolificacy when he gets a run in the team.

Red Crow

Nani played very well tonight. But Willems is a weak left back but I thought Nani was very effective tonight.

Pro. F

kryogen wrote: »

Bale has been playing regularly since he was what? 17? He will be 23 in a month and was only moved to left wing because he was so bad at left back that nobody would even take him off Harry!

He has been playing football at a good standard since 2007, Nani has had to adjust to a new country, a new league and new style of play and has had to live in the shadow of Ronaldo.

Gareth Bale is a good player, but he is certainly over hyped by the media and his age is misleading to how experienced he is. Also there is just over 2 and a half years between them, not almost 4

Nani Nov 17th 1986
Bale July 16th 1989

Tbf to Bale he should never have been played <Edid:on the left wing> left back in the first place and those seasons shouldn't be used for comparing how productive he is as a winger.

Kylo Ren

barneygumble99 wrote: »

my original comment about nani was regarding tonights match and his performance. according to wikipedia united paid €25 million for him. as a united supporter, if i was watchin the match tonight with united having just signed him and was looking forward to seeing what he could bring to the team , in general id be disappointed.

This logic is so flawed and illogical. After constantly berating Nani and saying Bale had better stats and being proven wrong you are now resorting to saying 'IF' we bought Nani yesterday for 25mil after today's performance you woud say it was a bad deal? WTF. 25mil for Nani is an absolute bargain for what he has done so far. If you watched Ronaldo last week and your club had just bought him for 25mil you would be like wtf? Same goes for VP, Huntelaar etc.

Fooking madness.

Eathrin

IF we chose to sell nani we could recoup the transfer fee and more. He has definitely proved his worth. I hope he's given a new contract.

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

Tbf to Bale he should never have been played on the left wing in the first place and those seasons shouldn't be used for comparing how productive he is as a winger.

What seasons?

Pro. F

kryogen wrote: »

What seasons?

Ah crap, I meant to say left back. Those seasons being the first few at Tottenham (can't remember how long it lasted) before he was moved permanently to the left wing.

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

Ah crap, I meant to say left back. Those seasons being the first few at Tottenham (can't remember how long it lasted) before he was moved permanently to the left wing.

Oh I know, I didnt use those seasons in the stats I gave responding to the other posters claims

Am only talking about how long he has been playing because the guy seems to be using Bales age, (which he also exaggerated the difference in) which is not really relevant because he has played plenty of football for his age.

barneygumble99

all im saying is that in my opinion nani is still too inconsistent to deserve the praise that is lavished on him. as much as facts and figures can be used to prove or disprove anything, it would be hard to use facts and figures to prove how influential roy keane was as a united player. no one would ever describe keane, scholes , giggs or cantona as a great player on their day. i want to see nani become a player you could depend on week in week out because his next 4 -5 years are his peak. he would be first choice right winger in any team if he could maintain the performances he sometimes puts in.

kryogen

barneygumble99 wrote: »

all im saying is that in my opinion nani is still too inconsistent to deserve the praise that is lavished on him. as much as facts and figures can be used to prove or disprove anything, it would be hard to use facts and figures to prove how influential roy keane was as a united player. no one would ever describe keane, scholes , giggs or cantona as a great player on their day. i want to see nani become a player you could depend on week in week out because his next 4 -5 years are his peak. he would be first choice right winger in any team if he could maintain the performances he sometimes puts in.

But it was you who brought stats into it as the crux of your argument

Kylo Ren

barneygumble99 wrote: »

all im saying is that in my opinion nani is still too inconsistent to deserve the praise that is lavished on him. as much as facts and figures can be used to prove or disprove anything, it would be hard to use facts and figures to prove how influential roy keane was as a united player. no one would ever describe keane, scholes , giggs or cantona as a great player on their day. i want to see nani become a player you could depend on week in week out because his next 4 -5 years are his peak. he would be first choice right winger in any team if he could maintain the performances he sometimes puts in.

barneygumble99

Keno 92 wrote: »

in your opinion is nani as consistent as keane , scholes , giggs etc were??

Kylo Ren

barneygumble99 wrote: »

in your opinion is nani as consistent as keane , scholes , giggs etc were??

No but that is not what it's about. You said no one would describe them as great players on their day?

barneygumble99

sorry what i meant was they were extremely consistent and not just just great players 'on their day'

Pj!

kryogen wrote: »

Nani Stats

2011/12

Prem Games Started - 24
Games as sub - 5
Goals - 8
Assists - 10

2010/11

Prem Games started - 31
Games as sub - 2
Goals - 9
Assists - 14

Gareth Bale Stats

2011/12
Prem Games Started - 36
Games as sub - 0
Goals - 9
Assists - 10

2010/11
Prem Games Started - 29
Games as sub - 1
Goals - 7
Assists - 1

Pretty clear winner there on the last two years.

Nice work there kryogen.

Bloody hell I didn't know Paul DePodesta posts on boards. Nice to meet you.

kryogen

Prefer the name Peter Brand

seriously though nothing to it.

great stats site http://soccernet.espn.go.com/?redirect=false&cc=5739

Pj!

kryogen wrote: »

Prefer the name Peter Brand

How about Johnny Sarcasm? I think you just missed him.

kryogen

Pj! wrote: »

How about Johnny Sarcasm? I think you just missed him.

Not too keen on that one, how about Arsey McArsehole?

So whats your story? You dont like accurate stats or just stats in general?

Forget it, I just realised you were the cuy who said sell Nani and buy Bale, you just dont like being wrong. Thats cool.

Kylo Ren

Pj! wrote: »

How about Johnny Sarcasm? I think you just missed him.

Yes, because sarcasm is so easily interpreted through text.

Pro. F

barneygumble99 wrote: »

all im saying is that in my opinion nani is still too inconsistent to deserve the praise that is lavished on him. as much as facts and figures can be used to prove or disprove anything, it would be hard to use facts and figures to prove how influential roy keane was as a united player. no one would ever describe keane, scholes , giggs or cantona as a great player on their day. i want to see nani become a player you could depend on week in week out because his next 4 -5 years are his peak. he would be first choice right winger in any team if he could maintain the performances he sometimes puts in.

You were the one who started with the facts and figures. You clearly believed that Nani was trailing in that aspect, which is a very important aspect for wingers. But you have been shown to be completely wrong. Now you expect us to believe that there is some other aspect to Nani's game that justifies the inconsistent tag? Even though he makes goals for the team at an incredibly consistent rate?

Nani can be depended on weak in and weak out easily as much as any other winger in the league. If we had a striker who scored in over two thirds of the games he played in there's no way you would call him inconsistent. We have a winger who either scores or assists in well over two thirds of the games he plays in yet you are still calling him inconsistent. It's absolutely daft.

Is he as consistent as Keane, Scholes, Giggs and Cantona? No probably not, but they are four of the best players to ever play for the club and three of them aren't even wingers ffs.

You're getting caught up in the fact that some people use the words "on his day" unnecessarily when talking about Nani. They are meaningless words really and in reality could be applied to any player ever.

Using the website that you linked for the numbers, Nani has scored or assisted in nearly every game he has played over the last two seasons (2010/11: 33 apps - 31 g&a ... 2011/12: 29 apps - 26 g&a) that's even including appearances as a sub. Yet you still call him inconsistent. You are obviously just completely biased about this and will try to use anything you can dream up as a stick to beat him with.

Pro. F

kryogen wrote: »

Oh I know, I didnt use those seasons in the stats I gave responding to the other posters claims

Am only talking about how long he has been playing because the guy seems to be using Bales age, (which he also exaggerated the difference in) which is not really relevant because he has played plenty of football for his age.

I thought you were arguing for those seasons numbers being included after all and I was also referring to your comments of how bad a fullback he was (which he was).

Schism

I like Nani, he's a joy to watch when he's playing well. That goal against Chelsea last year cemented it for me.

I'm not agreeing with barneygumble99 here but I can see why people have an issue with him and why people refer to the 'on his day' argument so much. Because he's such a talented player, when he's not in a game or doesn't produce, people get on his back. They know he's capable of so much more and expect it from him day in day out.

It's true he has some bad games, but in fairness who doesn't? Overall he's pretty damn solid. What player could you slot in there that would do as good a job as Nani does for us, and more to the point, what would he cost to get in?

lordgoat

barneygumble99 wrote: »

dont get me wrong, i think nani is a good player but the way some posters talk about him here is ridiculous. he is still quite inconsistent. you never know which nani is going to turn up when he's named to play. david beckham had a higher goal per game ratio than nani does even though he was mainly acknowleged as a great crosser of the ball. gareth bale has a way higher goals per game ration than nani if you take into account the last two seasons that bale has been deployed as a winger. united lost the league on goal difference this year. nani will be 26 in november, not exactly young in terms of someone you hope will eventually develop into a consistent player. this is just the way i see things, everyone sees things differently and not everyone will agree.

what nonsense.

barneygumble99 wrote: »

all im saying is that in my opinion nani is still too inconsistent to deserve the praise that is lavished on him. as much as facts and figures can be used to prove or disprove anything, it would be hard to use facts and figures to prove how influential roy keane was as a united player. no one would ever describe keane, scholes , giggs or cantona as a great player on their day. i want to see nani become a player you could depend on week in week out because his next 4 -5 years are his peak. he would be first choice right winger in any team if he could maintain the performances he sometimes puts in.

Just because you have an opinion on something doesn't mean that it's not wrong.

Also I remember plenty of seasons where Giggs/Scholes and Cantona at times were fairly inconsistent. Beckham too.

Season before last Nani won the players player of the year, had his best season and was extremely consistent. Last season he was unreal before Christmas and then got injured. You're talking complete and utter nonsense and I don't care if it's your opinion, it's miles away from reality.

Giggsy11

It's simple, Nani plays well whole game bar few mins where he makes few wrong decisions = He is not consistent.

That's nonsense. He is as consistent as any winger out there. He had few poor games but even when he had one, he created few goal scoring chances.

I would hate to see him go, he is our second best attacker and arguably the best attacker we have got. Not to forget he can retain the possession even when marked by 2 defenders.

markc1184

Madness to even be considering allowing Nani to leave, even moreso to replace him with Bale. Nani everytime for me.

Mitch Connor

markc1184 wrote: »

Madness to even be considering allowing Nani to leave, even moreso to replace him with Bale. Nani everytime for me.

I don't want us to sell Nani, as he is generally one of our key players and one of few genuine match winners we have. Overall, I do think he is a better player than Bale.

However, if we play with Valencia on the right most of the time, and I don't think he can play anywhere else, then Nani is getting played on the left. As a left winger, Bale is far better than Nani and if Valencia is first choice RW making Nani left wing by default, Bale would be an improvement, imo.

Maximus Alexander

Hey guys, being away in Australia I haven't been able to keep as up to date as I would like. What's the latest transfer news?

Apart from Kagawa, have there been any confirmed signings? Has anybody left, apart from Owen? Any word on what's happening to Berbatov for example?

Mitch Connor

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Hey guys, being away in Australia I haven't been able to keep as up to date as I would like. What's the latest transfer news?

Apart from Kagawa, have there been any confirmed signings? Has anybody left, apart from Owen? Any word on what's happening to Berbatov for example?

Nick Powell signed from Crewe is the only other piece of confirmed transfer news in or out of the club.

Maximus Alexander

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Nick Powell signed from Crewe is the only other piece of confirmed transfer news in or out of the club.

Thanks for that.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about Nick Powell that I didn't get from Wikipedia, some leap though from League 2 to (apparently) some first team action at Man United at the age of 18. Look forward to seeing him in action.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't want us to sell Nani, as he is generally one of our key players and one of few genuine match winners we have. Overall, I do think he is a better player than Bale.

However, if we play with Valencia on the right most of the time, and I don't think he can play anywhere else, then Nani is getting played on the left. As a left winger, Bale is far better than Nani and if Valencia is first choice RW making Nani left wing by default, Bale would be an improvement, imo.

But team won't be improved. Both Valencia and Bale are at their best when they hug the touchline, whereas Nani and Young does both.

With Valencia and Bale all we can hope is just whip some crosses and one of that will fall for our striker, whereas Nani and Young offers something else, they cut in and involves more in build up play, Nani in particluar offers it lot more than any winger we have.

When Nani played as LW, he didn't just play as LW. He moved to RW helping Valencia, moved centrally. He is a modern winger who doesn't stick to one position.

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

But team won't be improved. Both Valencia and Bale are at their best when they hug the touchline, whereas Nani and Young does both.

With Valencia and Bale all we can hope is just whip some crosses and one of that will fall for our striker, whereas Nani and Young offers something else, they cut in and involves more in build up play, Nani in particluar offers it lot more than any winger we have.

When Nani played as LW, he didn't just play as LW. He moved to RW helping Valencia, moved centrally. He is a modern winger who doesn't stick to one position.

I think Bale has offered more than hug the line and whip it in over the last 12 months - far more so than Valencia anyway. He doesn't interchange as much as Nani, no, but he is a better LW than either Young or Nani.

keane2097

Giggsy11 wrote: »

But team won't be improved. Both Valencia and Bale are at their best when they hug the touchline, whereas Nani and Young does both.

lol @ Bale being at his best hugging the touchline

Mitch Connor

Fixture list is out:

http://www.manutd.com/en/Fixtures-And-Results/United-Fixtures-And-Results.aspx

Not a terrible list in that there isn't (yet) a horrid run of 4/5 games on the bounce but there are a lot of tricky doubles (Cheslea/Arsenal for example). Play City, Chelsea and Liverpool away in the first half of the seaosn.

Run in isn't too bad in April (City game at home though) but having Arsenal and Chelsea in the last 4 makes it a toughie imo. Swansea at home second last with West Brom away to finish are two games we should be winning.

Mitch Connor

Just seen the FA have done us their usual 'favour', away from home after 5 of the 6 CL group games.

Away to Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea, Villa & City. Absolute horsesh1te yet again.

Of course it means City are away only once in this time.

Absolute horsesh1t.

TheTownie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Just seen the FA have done us their usual 'favour', away from home after 5 of the 6 CL group games.

Away to Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea, Villa & City. Absolute horsesh1te yet again.

Of course it means City are away only once in this time.

Absolute horsesh1t.

IIRC City were screwed like that last season.

Although I don't see why they can't just have it 3 away games each.

stesaurus

TheTownie wrote: »

IIRC City were screwed like that last season.

Although I don't see why they can't just have it 3 away games each.

It's complicated enough without trying to balance out the number of away games after Champions league matches.

It's not bad. If we're close to top at Xmas we have a great chance with a number of the bigger games at Old Trafford in the 2nd half.

FutureGuy

When will the TV fixture list be posted?

Mitch Connor

Wonder if we will hear any more stories about Strootman over the next week or so, with Holland out of the Euro's. While i would love to see Modric signed, I think Strootman is the far more likely target - himself, Kagawa and Powell would be some good summer work imo.