Irish football from Grassroots to International: What needs to change?

CSF

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I agree, but I guess we need start somewhere.

I do know that its not as simple as to just copy any countries system of doing things, its much more complex.

TBF though some people have suggested things that at least would be start.

every little helps and all that.

What suggestions would at least be a start? I've seen very little that had any substance and nobody volunteering to help this happen by saying they'd be calling up their local club tomorrow to take a team on for the 12/13 season. No point in going in the internet and telling those who actually volunteer their time how they should do it.

MANUTD99

Look at teams in LOI, for example my local team is Bohs, they had a lot of players on full time contracts paying stupid money,they won a couple of titles and everybody is happy even though they didn't have a pot to piss in.Bugger all money was spent on youth development,the stadium is falling apart but the bar was re developed about 5 times.

The National Team was the same. As long as the current manager had a good squad they didn't care about underage and developing the game.(Brian Kerr is not included)

Me personally, I put the son through a below average DDSL team. He tried to get to a good DDSL team like Belvedere or Home Farm and then onto trials in UK. He never made it to the good DDSL teams but I'm proud anyway

Grass roots is the most important factor at this stage.LOI need to create underage leagues in each province.FAI need to pump money into grass roots and much more promotion of the game outside Dublin and other cities.

The_Kew_Tour

CSF wrote: »

What suggestions would at least be a start? I've seen very little that had any substance and nobody volunteering to help this happen by saying they'd be calling up their local club tomorrow to take a team on for the 12/13 season. No point in going in the internet and telling those who actually volunteer their time how they should do it.

Like making young players stay in this country longer before moving abroad. In time this may lead to better league and hopefully more better players tending to stay on in Ireland.

CSF

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Look at teams in LOI, for example my local team is Bohs, they had a lot of players on full time contracts paying stupid money,they won a couple of titles and everybody is happy even though they didn't have a pot to piss in.Bugger all money was spent on youth development,the stadium is falling apart but the bar was re developed about 5 times.

The National Team was the same. As long as the current manager had a good squad they didn't care about underage and developing the game.(Brian Kerr is not included)

Me personally, I put the son through a below average DDSL team. He tried to get to a good DDSL team like Belvedere or Home Farm and then onto trials in UK. He never made it to the good DDSL teams but I'm proud anyway

Grass roots is the most important factor at this stage.LOI need to create underage leagues in each province.FAI need to pump money into grass roots and much more promotion of the game outside Dublin and other cities.

I can tell you here and now that the Bohs fans were not happy with how things were run and the board remain very unpopular characters at the club. Where are the FAI to get this money by the way? What will you be doing to help?

CSF

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Like making young players stay in this country longer before moving abroad. In time this may lead to better league and hopefully more better players tending to stay on in Ireland.

You can't force someone to stay anywhere though, so its a stupid vague suggestion that has no grounding in reality.

eyescreamcone

Why is keeping players at home important???
I'd like to see them going to clubs all over the continent and bringing different systems and skill sets back to the national setup.

Orando Broom

CSF wrote: »

Well I mean, as someone who plays, coaches and attends football almost every week I'd like to think I'm doing my bit.

I don't think theres a quickfire answer to any of our problems, and I don't think its simply a matter of the FAI coming up with some expert plan.

The general footballing public has to play their role if we are to progress as a footballing nation.

If you're a person who is interested in the welfare of football in this country, its up to you to do your bit. If you're (and I'm not addressing you individually) not out coaching, getting badges to help develop the abilities of future generations, why not? If the reason is good, fair enough. If not, you're a bit hypocritical moaning about these things on the internet. If you're not attending League of Ireland games every 2nd week, why not? Again, if the reason is good, fair enough.

If we had alot more volunteers for coaching in this country, and alot more people getting up off their arses on a Friday night, then things would start to happen quickly, and eventually we could look at more complex systems to take football in this country to the next level.

Widen that to sporting public. The Irish historically have been a little bit event junkies. Even in GAA the national league is a supporter wasteland then boom, the championship e fans appear. It's a problem across all the codes. Look at Rugby the club game is ignored and the provinces are well attended.

The LOI needs to take a leaf out of Leinster and Munster's books. I think there is a disconnect between the LOI teams and the public. shamrock Rovers are my local club but I am not a Dub. I feel no connection to Rovers. I go to the odd game but I always feel like the outsider, that the club is someone elses, not mine. It should be but there is a disconnect. How does a LOI club get me into their club? I think that question gets answered by the LOI clubs, connect themselves to the people in their sphere of influence they might start getting bigger numbers. I am sure that is probably an easily rebutted sentiment but it is one that I think has relevance.

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Why is keeping players at home important???
I'd like to see them going to clubs all over the continent and bringing different systems and skill sets back to the national setup.

It is important to keep players here until an age where they should be realistically emotionally capable of living a life abroad. The amount of players coming home burned out and wasted from British academies is very high and is a massive drain on our talent pool.

Orando Broom

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Why is keeping players at home important???
I'd like to see them going to clubs all over the continent and bringing different systems and skill sets back to the national setup.

It's not but I think we should not be seeing young lads leave the likes of Cherry Orchard and moving straight across the water.

The_Kew_Tour

CSF wrote: »

You can't force someone to stay anywhere though, so its a stupid vague suggestion that has no grounding in reality.

You cant force them your right I know that only too well, but maybe encouraging players to make them realise that playing football regularly will be of more benefit to them in future.

It will take time its not going happen overnight, no suggestion will. Any idea implemented will take time to come off.

You can use examples like James MaCarthy who stayed on with Hamilton when he could have moved to big club. Instead he progressed slowly but now seems to be paying off.

Like I say any suggestion will take time.

CSF

Orando Broom wrote: »

Widen that to sporting public. The Irish historically have been a little bit event junkies. Even in GAA the national league is a supporter wasteland then boom, the championship e fans appear. It's a problem across all the codes. Look at Rugby the club game is ignored and the provinces are well attended.

The LOI needs to take a leaf out of Leinster and Munster's books. I think there is a disconnect between the LOI teams and the public. shamrock Rovers are my local club but I am not a Dub. I feel no connection to Rovers. I go to the odd game but I always feel like the outsider, that the club is someone elses, not mine. It should be but there is a disconnect. How does a LOI club get me into their club? I think that question gets answered by the LOI clubs, connect themselves to the people in their sphere of influence they might start getting bigger numbers. I am sure that is probably an easily rebutted sentiment but it is one that I think has relevance.

Without wishing to get into the usual argument, I'm confused as to how Shamrock Rovers are any less you're club than whoever you support abroad. Surely they're more yours than that club, seeing as you actually live in the location, even if its not the same as a club from where you're actually from.

CSF

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You cant force them your right I know that only too well, but maybe encouraging players to make them realise that playing football regularly will be of more benefit to them in future.

It will take time its not going happen overnight, no suggestion will. Any idea implemented will take time to come off.

You can use examples like James MaCarthy who stayed on with Hamilton when he could have moved to big club. Instead he progressed slowly but now seems to be paying off.

Like I say any suggestion will take time.

I think its naive to suggest that young footballers are not being encouraged already. It really isn't a suggestion with any substance at all.

Orando Broom

CSF wrote: »

Without wishing to get into the usual argument, I'm confused as to how Shamrock Rovers are any less you're club than whoever you support abroad. Surely they're more yours than that club, seeing as you actually live in the location, even if its not the same as a club from where you're actually from.

That is a fair point but from the sense of community. I grew up in a GAA stronghold, only played organized soccer when I went to secondary school. You started following the English teams as they were on telly. I wouldn't see myself as having a connection. It's really a passive support.

Randy Anders

I grew up playing through the DDSL(Dublin District Schoolboys League) at a fairly decent standard. There are some absolutely brilliant, creative players at underage level but they are not being helped by coaches who simply don't have enough knowledge of the game

The key to success in football is using your head more than your heart imo. In Ireland, there is far too much emphasis on a player who gets 'stuck in' with bruising tackles, often being applauded as a hero. Of course every team needs one or two destructive players but what they really need is someone in midfield who can pull the strings and play the right ball at the right time

In my days of underage football, passing it around the back 4 was a complete no no. We were always told to clear our lines at all costs. This leads to players being uncomforatble in possession of the ball. Training needs to incorporate far more 1 touch and go style football. Show for space at all costs. There are some great training drills I was watching on youtube with a spanish youth academy. It was unreal, every single player had to lose their marker in the space of 2 or 3 seconds or else they would get a bollocking from the coach. Now I'm sure these sorts of drills are being implemented at the really big Dublin, Cork, Galway etc schoolboy teams but they certainly are not at the everyday, small time local clubs

This has to change

CSF

Orando Broom wrote: »

That is a fair point but from the sense of community. I grew up in a GAA stronghold, only played organized soccer when I went to secondary school. You started following the English teams as they were on telly. I wouldn't see myself as having a connection. It's really a passive support.

Fair enough, I'm not having a pop. Just trying to apply logic to the situation. If you think ******** Rovers can't be your club, then I think you're overthinking the situation. Frankly, I think you should pay 15 euros into Tolka Park on Thursday night to go see ******** Rovers in action against the most beautiful football club in the world. I think that'd be a great help for Irish football.

eyescreamcone

This thread is turning into a "how to improve the LOI" thread.

The LOI will never be able to afford to pay the wages of international standard players who realistically aspire to the latter stages of the big tournaments.

To create top players we need better quality training at an earlier age for more boys.

Better training
Earlier age
More boys

Simples

CSF

Randy Anders wrote: »

I grew up playing through the DDSL(Dublin District Schoolboys League) at a fairly decent standard. There are some absolutely brilliant, creative players at underage level but they are not being helped by coaches who simply don't have enough knowledge of the game

The key to success in football is using your head more than your heart imo. In Ireland, there is far too much emphasis on a player who gets 'stuck in' with bruising tackles, often being applauded as a hero. Of course every team needs one or two destructive players but what they really need is someone in midfield who can pull the strings and play the right ball at the right time

In my days of underage football, passing it around the back 4 was a complete no no. We were always told to clear our lines at all costs. This leads to players being uncomforatble in possession of the ball. Training needs to incorporate far more 1 touch and go style football. Show for space at all costs. There are some great training drills I was watching on youtube with a spanish youth academy. It was unreal, every single player had to lose their marker in the space of 2 or 3 seconds or else they would get a bollocking from the coach. Now I'm sure these sorts of drills are being implemented at the really big Dublin, Cork, Galway etc schoolboy teams but they certainly are not at the everyday, small time local clubs

This has to change

You should help change it.

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

This thread is turning into a "how to improve the LOI" thread.

The LOI will never be able to afford to pay the wages of international standard players who realistically aspire to the latter stages of the big tournaments.

To create top players we need better quality training at an earlier age for more boys.

Better training
Earlier age
More boys

Simples

And the award for most vague pointless post gos to....

Orando Broom

CSF wrote: »

Fair enough, I'm not having a pop. Just trying to apply logic to the situation. If you think ******** Rovers can't be your club, then I think you're overthinking the situation. Frankly, I think you should pay 15 euros into Tolka Park on Thursday night to go see ******** Rovers in action against the most beautiful football club in the world. I think that'd be a great help for Irish football.

I know you're not. You're right I need to make more of an effort. Round up the lads, lash them into the car and go down!

bohsman

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Look at teams in LOI, for example my local team is Bohs, they had a lot of players on full time contracts paying stupid money,they won a couple of titles and everybody is happy even though they didn't have a pot to piss in.Bugger all money was spent on youth development,the stadium is falling apart but the bar was re developed about 5 times.

We were extremely unhappy at the overspending however things are being done right at the moment. The fans are fully behind a very young squad with some very good players in it, would be a great time for anyone to take in a few games, would be shocked if a few of the squad don't end up in England soon and the manager is encouraging a passing flowing game.

eyescreamcone

CSF - I haven't seen much Menotti like insights from your posts

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

CSF - I haven't seen much Menotti like insights from your posts

No, you're right, because its not necessary. Talking about how great the Dutch and Spanish systems are and how we should do that is pointless tripe if you're just going to sit on your arse and expect someone else to do it.

eyescreamcone

CSF wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

CSF - I haven't seen much Menotti like insights from your posts

No, you're right, because its not necessary. Talking about how great the Dutch and Spanish systems are and how we should do that is pointless tripe if you're just going to sit on your arse and expect someone else to do it.

I do my bit!

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I do my bit!

How so?

Balmed Out

We need to encourage more participation in underage club football.
Move away from the English eleven aside matches with an importance in results towards the Spanish style five asides. Physicality shouldnt be the emphasis for ten year olds.

Whatever you think about league of Ireland it has to be strengthened if we want to improve at international levels. They are the top clubs in the country and its to them we need youngsters to aspire to rather then off to England with you from where you pack football in with homesickness. Domestic clubs need to have the ability to develop our own talent.

MANUTD99

bohsman wrote: »

We were extremely unhappy at the overspending however things are being done right at the moment. The fans are fully behind a very young squad with some very good players in it, would be a great time for anyone to take in a few games, would be shocked if a few of the squad don't end up in England soon and the manager is encouraging a passing flowing game.

I believe your right although Bohs were forced into this suituation though, I don't think anybody was unhappy though when Roddy was winning doubles. I was in Cobh the year before in the relegation play off. Bohs were like the mafia, all the money went to the top any nobody at the bottom seen the benefits.

I felt then there was thugish feeling at Bohs games where fans thought they were on the terraces in England or something.I didn't want to bring kids into this enviroment. I'm glad thats coming to a end though. I brought my nephew to a game recently and it was better.

LOI needs to get more family orientated. The GAA do some great deals for families.15 euro in for a adult in Dalymount is too steep if you ask me.

eyescreamcone

I coach a junior team (adults) in Cork.
I go to the odd LOI game and I pay good money to support the national team when I can.

I'm also one of the 2 million who watched the euro games - driving up the ratings - making the advertising space more valuable - ultimately putting money in the FAIs coffers!!!

Not much - but a bit

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I coach a junior team (adults) in Cork.
I go to the odd LOI game and I pay good money to support the national team when I can.

I'm also one of the 2 million who watched the euro games - driving up the ratings - making the advertising space more valuable - ultimately putting money in the FAIs coffers!!!

Not much - but a bit

So very little to do with what you're referring to then....

eyescreamcone

Haha
I give up 7 hours a week plus diesel and phone bills to grassroots soccer for nada.
I supported LOI clubs and the FAI financially by going to their games

Ive earnt my right to give my opinion on boards.ie about anything to do with football.

Whether you like it or not sunshine

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Haha
I give up 7 hours a week plus diesel and phone bills to grassroots soccer for nada.
I supported LOI clubs and the FAI financially by going to their games

Ive earnt my right to give my opinion on boards.ie about anything to do with football.

Whether you like it or not sunshine

You're missing my point. I'm referring to how everyone on this thread is talking about what OTHER people should do.

eyescreamcone

CSF wrote: »

You're missing my point. I'm referring to how everyone on this thread is talking about what OTHER people should do.

You do realise it is an anonymous talkshop here

It would be a short thread if it went like this
How do we improve?
Everybody do more stuff!
Thread closed

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

You do realise it is an anonymous talkshop here

It would be a short thread if it went like this
How do we improve?
Everybody do more stuff!
Thread closed

So instead it makes sense to float around the point with gloss and clichéd craptalk.

What the country needs is more coaches who want to improve, better facilities, and a better national league. Doesn't make for a very long thread does it?

eyescreamcone

CSF wrote: »

What the country needs is more coaches who want to improve, better facilities, and a better national league.

That's better - now you're playing the game
+ increased numbers maybe???
+ more hours per week being coached???
+ younger starts???

All sorted now

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

That's better - now you're playing the game
+ increased numbers maybe???
+ more hours per week being coached???
+ younger starts???

All sorted now

Again, with all those things, you're going back to more coaches. Which is my point.

TheRedDevil10

why don't people not go to the pub to watch PL games and go to LOI games instead?

eyescreamcone

CSF wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

That's better - now you're playing the game
+ increased numbers maybe???
+ more hours per week being coached???
+ younger starts???

All sorted now

Again, with all those things, you're going back to more coaches. Which is my point.

More coaches doing their badges is a must - have to agree with that!!!

Kids training time is valuable and must not be wasted by muppet coaches (like me probably)

But a uefa b badge costs a grand.
I couldnt afford the price plus time off work but I do hope somebody else can

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

More coaches doing their badges is a must - have to agree with that!!!

Kids training time is valuable and must not be wasted by muppet coaches (like me probably)

But a uefa b badge costs a grand.
I couldnt afford the price plus time off work but I do hope somebody else can

Youth cert is fine for the most part anyway, with maybe 1 or 2 above that at a club to oversee the development at the club.

Kidchameleon

eyescreamcone wrote: »

We must have reasonable expectations.
We won't win a Euro or a World Cup ever.
With our population size we won't always qualify. But we should put the right systems in place to maximise our chances of progressing.

I dont think thats what the youngsters need to hear. They need to be told we are more than capable of doing a Greece 2004. Look at Croatia right now; probably going to the quarter finals in this tourney and within a second of the semifinals last time around. Third in 1998 World Cup. We are a similar size country, and I see no reason why we cant achieve what they have done if we put our heads down for a few years and sort this out...

tayto lover

There is so much emphasis on examination results in schools that P.E and sports are being given a back seat. Many schools do not include sport in their weekly schedule anymore. Also, young lads are too much into gadgets and computer games to bother with sport. Obesity is a serious issue now.Sport should be compulsory in schools and young lads should be taught to play team games in Primary school but they are not.

Jimmy Iovine

TheRedDevil10 wrote: »

why don't people not go to the pub to watch PL games and go to LOI games instead?

That's well and good if you're from Galway, Dublin or Cork. I'd love to go to a LOI game on a regular basis but being from Kilkenny that's not possible any more, unfortunately. I have no interest in travelling 65 kilometres each way to see Waterford United, or 75 kilometres each way to see Wexford Youths play every week. I've no connection with them and really don't care if they win, lose or draw.

If Kilkenny City was around now I'd be out there every week. The stadium was situated in a brutal area of the city and trying to get a lift out there on a Friday night was difficult so I could only ever get to the odd game. 20 minute drive out from my house (depending on traffic). It was always going to lead to a few problems.

I'm moving to Bangor in Wales next year. I'm looking forward to being able to stroll up the road of a Saturday evening and go to watch a match of a decent standard. It's been years since I've had that luxury.

monkey9

TheRedDevil10 wrote: »

why don't people not go to the pub to watch PL games and go to LOI games instead?

They can do both!

Jimmy Iovine

eyescreamcone wrote: »

But a uefa b badge costs a grand.
I couldnt afford the price plus time off work but I do hope somebody else can

It could be an idea for a club to identify a member of the club who has an interest in gaining the UEFA B badge. If they put on a fundraiser and paid half of the fee it'd help a lot. Of course they'd have to make sure that the person wouldn't jump ship and head off to another club or quit the game entirely.

If they did this and that person kind of floated around the club helping out at different age groups then it'd help tremendously. They'd be able to introduce new training methods to the sessions and they could hold monthly meetings between the managers and discuss tactics or new methods that they have found themselves.

eyescreamcone

Greece 2004 played awful football. It is unlikely that a team playing this type of football will be successful again soon.
They are not the role models we should be looking at.

We should try to imitate the best possession football teams. Barca etc

Denmark won in 92 also,
but realistically we are a long way off reaching the latter stages (let alone winning) of the big tournaments.

We got to the qfs in 90 without winning a game. This can't happen anymore.

We need to do things right at developmental level and the rest will look after itself.
If you do things properly then enough players will come through and results will happen.

Our population size will always limit our achievements. Fact!
But we shouldn't use this as an excuse.

We need to target players who will qualify for us in the USA and australia as well as the UK.
Also we should target all of Northern Ireland's talent including those from a unionist background.
Nobody should be let escape.

We are not as bad as Scotland or Wales.
We have a recent history of qualifying and getting to playoffs.
Do we want to go backwards or forwards from here????

Mars Bar

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

It could be an idea for a club to identify a member of the club who has an interest in gaining the UEFA B badge. .

That's kind of easier said than done.

They'd have to have the KickStart1, KS2, Strength and Conditioning Workshop, Small Sided Games Workshop and the Youth Cert done first. That's almost €1,000 before getting to the UEFA B license and you have to be accepted to do that as far as I know.

CSF

Mars Bar wrote: »

That's kind of easier said than done.

They'd have to have the KickStart1, KS2, Strength and Conditioning Workshop, Small Sided Games Workshop and the Youth Cert done first. That's almost €1,000 before getting to the UEFA B license and you have to be accepted to do that as far as I know.

Well you wouldn't be going for someone who was starting from scratch, and if you ain't at KS2 already you shouldn't be coaching unless you're a beginner aspiring for that.

Mars Bar

CSF wrote: »

Well you wouldn't be going for someone who was starting from scratch, and if you ain't at KS2 already you shouldn't be coaching unless you're a beginner aspiring for that.

I agree. That post just highlights that the person has to be seriously interested and can devote their time and some finances to it. Not just pick someone from a group who has a little interest in it. How many clubs would have that person? I'm fairly certain that my local club doesn't have one person who has completed the Youth Cert and I'm not sure many of them would even have KS2 done.

I believe that anyone involved in coaching should at least have KS1 and 2 and be Garda vetted of course.

CSF

Mars Bar wrote: »

I agree. That post just highlights that the person has to be seriously interested and can devote their time and some finances to it. Not just pick someone from a group who has a little interest in it. How many clubs would have that person? I'm fairly certain that my local club doesn't have one person who has completed the Youth Cert and I'm not sure many of them would even have KS2 done.

I believe that anyone involved in coaching should at least have KS1 and 2 and be Garda vetted of course.

I'd be with one of the bigger clubs in Dublin so perhaps my experiences cloud what its like elsewhere. Majority of us would be Youth Cert.

Danye

CSF wrote: »

You're missing my point. I'm referring to how everyone on this thread is talking about what OTHER people should do.

Yes and what's wrong with that? There are currently people out there who are coaching and coaching wrong. What's wrong with making a suggestion that they should do it right?

CSF wrote: »

Youth cert is fine for the most part anyway, with maybe 1 or 2 above that at a club to oversee the development at the club.

Agreed.

CSF wrote: »

No, you're right, because its not necessary. Talking about how great the Dutch and Spanish systems are and how we should do that is pointless tripe if you're just going to sit on your arse and expect someone else to do it.

Why is it pointless? If people are going to be managers or coaches at under age level in anyway would it not be better that they try to coach with a proven strategy? Instead of some of the current tripe that coaches currently use?

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

It could be an idea for a club to identify a member of the club who has an interest in gaining the UEFA B badge. If they put on a fundraiser and paid half of the fee it'd help a lot. Of course they'd have to make sure that the person wouldn't jump ship and head off to another club or quit the game entirely.

If they did this and that person kind of floated around the club helping out at different age groups then it'd help tremendously. They'd be able to introduce new training methods to the sessions and they could hold monthly meetings between the managers and discuss tactics or new methods that they have found themselves.

Agree with all of the above. In my own opinion and from my experience the only reason a person would leave the club would be if what the coach is trying to introduce isn't being taken onboard my other members of the club. It would defeat the purpose of him doing the badges in the first place.

Mars Bar wrote: »

That's kind of easier said than done.

They'd have to have the KickStart1, KS2, Strength and Conditioning Workshop, Small Sided Games Workshop and the Youth Cert done first. That's almost €1,000 before getting to the UEFA B license and you have to be accepted to do that as far as I know.

I know it's a lot of money but surely that's what the FAI and their coffers is there for? Or to even subsidise the fee's.

Jimmy Iovine

Mars Bar wrote: »

That's kind of easier said than done.

They'd have to have the KickStart1, KS2, Strength and Conditioning Workshop, Small Sided Games Workshop and the Youth Cert done first. That's almost €1,000 before getting to the UEFA B license and you have to be accepted to do that as far as I know.

Well I was only throwing it out there as an idea.

I remember when I did the Kick Start 1 a few years ago our club paid for us to do it. There were about 215/20 of us doing it. Everyone from 17/18 up to 40/50.

Not every club would be able to afford to do that. I know our club wouldn't be able to now considering the unnecessary debts we've built up recently. If they did contribute some bit towards the costs for the KS2 and Youth Cert.

For the UEFA B you need to be working with elite youths or a senior team.

Anyway the application procedure and criteria is enough to rule out the majority of people around the country. The money part is probably the easier hurdle to overcome.

CSF

Danye wrote: »

Yes and what's wrong with that? There are currently people out there who are coaching and coaching wrong. What's wrong with making a suggestion that they should do it right

To be honest, a good analogy for my point would be if you told your mother she wasn't cooking your dinner the best way, she has every right to tell you to **** off mouthing and go do it yourself.