Irish football from Grassroots to International: What needs to change?

Mars Bar

CSF wrote: »

I'd be with one of the bigger clubs in Dublin so perhaps my experiences cloud what its like elsewhere. Majority of us would be Youth Cert.

The joys of country clubs eh? I plan on having my YC this time next year anyway so hopefully I'll be able the one to make the difference here.

Danye wrote: »

I know it's a lot of money but surely that's what the FAI and their coffers is there for? Or to even subsidise the fee's.

Nah that money is there to subsidise beer and train journeys abroad.

Seriously though, I've been privileged enough to have had my badges paid for through the FAI/FAS scheme so I can't complain. If clubs can subsidise a few people to do up to KS2 without damaging budgets then it's brilliant.



On the 31st of May, FAIreland tweeted "Productive meeting with our colleagues at Coaching Ireland yesterday. Certification of another 791 coaches approved.".

Only 77 of those are of Youth Cert standard which is a fairly dismal number IMO. I've been the "guinea pig" on those Youth Cert assessments and some of the coaches I've seen have been terrible.

blue-army

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Greece 2004 played awful football.

Greece also made it out of their group again this year! They're not a bad team to try to emulate.
On paper our squad easily as good, if not better than Greece, similar experienced manager, playing style, etc.
Ireland were just really unlucky in that we got one of the hardest groups we possibly could've gotten!
England, who have 20x our resources and players wouldn't have stood a chance in our group.

I don't understand why there's such a big deal made out of our performances in this tournament. We could've played better perhaps, made less individual errors, but nerves are to be expected when it's most of our squads first appearances at a finals.
What matters is that we actually qualified and I'm sure the experience will stand to the younger members of the squad and we'll come back stronger.

Ireland is in a healthy position with a lot of good young players coming through (McCarthy, McClean, Coleman, Clark). We've far more coming through than we did after WC2002, and in Trap we've someone who's done it all in football so I trust that he'll blood these players when the time is right.

The main area I'd like to see improved would be our domestic league. I'm a big LOI fan, but it's an absolute joke compared to countries of similar size like Norway/Sweden. The league's infrastructure is awful and isn't going to get any better with people not attending games.... and people aren't going to attend games when the setup's shíte.
Realistically it's only ever going to be a feeder league to UK clubs, but if we could try follow the Norway model of having professional set ups and keeping players in Ireland 'til they're early 20s then we'd be onto something! However with the popularity of the GAA that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Mars Bar

blue-army wrote: »

Ireland is in a healthy position with a lot of good young players coming through (McCarthy, McClean, Coleman, Clark). We've far more coming through than we did after WC2002, and in Trap we've someone who's done it all in football so I trust that he'll blood these players when the time is right.
]n.

Just to be a right bitch here!

McCarthy came through the SFA. McClean through the Northern Irish system. Ciaran Clark through the English FA and in fact has captained English under age teams.

Coleman is the only player you have mentioned there that came through the Irish system.

Of the players coming through (23 and under), Coleman and Cunningham are the only players that have been capped at senior level who have come through Irish clubs. Conor Clifford will probably get a cap, as will Robbie Brady and maybe Enda Stevens.

joe123

Well first of all it's clear that the Loi brigade are oblivious to the problems outside the areas where there is no Loi club.

Suggesting why don't you just go to a Loi game instead of the pub smacks of this. Many places are over an hour away from any Lou team. Secondly going from my own experience, these clubs do absolutely nothing to promote themselves in my town or indeed the league I play in.

I'm heavily involved with my local club, playing and raising funds. We've had virtually 0 help from the fai or any Loi clubs in Connaught. Sligo rovers case in point. No respect for that club at all.

It doesn't help that so many of the loi brigade are a condescending shower. "I coach,play and attend games regularly and also act like a twat sitting on my high horse". That type of attitude is rife and it doesnt help any progression.


I attended 99% of my own junior teams matches last season after tearing my cruciate in pre season. Yet I support Liverpool. My mind is blown.

Not only is there a big disconnect from loi and smaller clubs, there is a big disconnect from the Loi brigade and those that live in areas with no connection to any loi team what so ever.

There needs to be a better involvement in these small clubs outside of the big cities. I've not experienced it anyways.

CSF

joe123 wrote: »

Well first of all it's clear that the Loi brigade are oblivious to the problems outside the areas where there is no Loi club.

Suggesting why don't you just go to a Loi game instead of the pub smacks of this. Many places are over an hour away from any Lou team. Secondly going from my own experience, these clubs do absolutely nothing to promote themselves in my town or indeed the league I play in.

I'm heavily involved with my local club, playing and raising funds. We've had virtually 0 help from the fai or any Loi clubs in Connaught. Sligo rovers case in point. No respect for that club at all.

It doesn't help that so many of the loi brigade are a condescending shower. "I coach,play and attend games regularly and also act like a twat sitting on my high horse". That type of attitude is rife and it doesnt help any progression.


I attended 99% of my own junior teams matches last season after tearing my cruciate in pre season. Yet I support Liverpool. My mind is blown.

Not only is there a big disconnect from loi and smaller clubs, there is a big disconnect from the Loi brigade and those that live in areas with no connection to any loi team what so ever.

There needs to be a better involvement in these small clubs outside of the big cities. I've not experienced it anyways.

It is so funny how you haven't yet realised that its actually you with the chip on your shoulder.

CiaranC

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-06-15/top-stories/32253980_1_new-coach-india-job-high-performance-director

Disaster for Irish football

event

At a basic level, coaching needs to change as does the attitudes of parents etc.

Kids, up as far as u14 shouldnt be competitive. There is far too much emphasis on winning. as a result, the bigger kids will usually get picked whereas smaller kids will be overlooked.
if you want to develop creative players, you have to let them flourish. how many games have you go to for kids and you can see a kid who has a bit of talent. he beats one player and suddenly everyone is screaming at him to pass it, dont be greedy etc.
this isnt just an irish problem, its in england too and a few other countries, its just the style.

i look at a player like Joe Cole, when he first came onto the scene, you could tell he was incredibly gifted. most national teams would have made him a central player and build a team around him. england? they shunted him out to the left wing and made him work hard. Now he didnt work out anyway (injuries, not being as good as we thought etc) but the sentiment is there IMO.

SantryRed

CiaranC wrote: »

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-06-15/top-stories/32253980_1_new-coach-india-job-high-performance-director

Disaster for Irish football

Jesus that's a disaster. He has been the reason for all that's happened in underage. Watch Don Givens be given it now.

Kidchameleon

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Our population size will always limit our achievements. Fact!

How is that a fact? By your logic, India and China would be the dominant country's in world football... Yes population size does help, in that you have a bigger pool of players but its more about the footballing mentality in the nation... Look at Northern Ireland, they got to the WC quarters before us! Look at Uruguay, half the population to us and all the success they have had, both in the past and recently! It has nothing to do with population there, its the South American mentality for soccer. Ireland has a great head for football.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

We need to target players who will qualify for us in the USA and australia as well as the UK.
Also we should target all of Northern Ireland's talent including those from a unionist background.

Making it essentially a team that doesn't represent ROI :rolleyes:

Zebra3

Folks, the FAI are way ahead of you all.

Along with the Scots they've ensured 24 teams will compete at the next Euros thereby ensuring Ireland have an increased chance of qualification.

:rolleyes:

Kidchameleon

Zebra3 wrote: »

Folks, the FAI are way ahead of you all.

Along with the Scots they've ensured 24 teams will compete at the next Euros thereby ensuring Ireland have an increased chance of qualification.

:rolleyes:

Dont for get there was unanimous agreement from ALL UEFA members. UEFA would have done this anyhow, money money money...

eyescreamcone

Kidchameleon wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Our population size will always limit our achievements. Fact!

How is that a fact? By your logic, India and China would be the dominant country's in world football... Yes population size does help, in that you have a bigger pool of players but its more about the footballing mentality in the nation... Look at Northern Ireland, they got to the WC quarters before us! Look at Uruguay, half the population to us and all the success they have had, both in the past and recently! It has nothing to do with population there, its the South American mentality for soccer. Ireland has a great head for football.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

We need to target players who will qualify for us in the USA and australia as well as the UK.
Also we should target all of Northern Ireland's talent including those from a unionist background.

Making it essentially a team that doesn't represent ROI :rolleyes:

Loser mentality!!!

dan1895

eyescreamcone wrote: »

We need to target players who will qualify for us in the USA and australia as well as the UK.
Also we should target all of Northern Ireland's talent including those from a unionist background.
Nobody should be let escape.

I suppose that's easier than trying to develop something here ourselves. Sit back, do nothing, let others develop the talent and then rob them for our team. As for players in the USA, Joe Lapira anyone?

Francie Barrett

Mars Bar wrote: »

Just to be a right bitch here!

McCarthy came through the SFA. McClean through the Northern Irish system. Ciaran Clark through the English FA and in fact has captained English under age teams.

Coleman is the only player you have mentioned there that came through the Irish system.

Of the players coming through (23 and under), Coleman and Cunningham are the only players that have been capped at senior level who have come through Irish clubs. Conor Clifford will probably get a cap, as will Robbie Brady and maybe Enda Stevens.

Conor Clifford has been at Chelsea since he was 15, so we can hardly count him as a player who has come through the domestic system. Robbie Brady has been at United since 16, likewise for Greg Cunningham at City.

Mars Bar

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Conor Clifford has been at Chelsea since he was 15, so we can hardly count him as a player who has come through the domestic system. Robbie Brady has been at United since 16, likewise for Greg Cunningham at City.

That's very true too. However, I'd imagine between the ages of 8 and 13, the player learns the most and decides whether football is the career for them. They have learned that on Irish shores.

joe123

CSF wrote: »

It is so funny how you haven't yet realised that its actually you with the chip on your shoulder.

Haha when it comes to Sligo Rovers I do! In all seriousness though I don't think things will ever change. People like yourself will give out/begrudge those that don't follow Loi not realising they have absolutely 0 presence outside most of the big cities. I will continue to support my local club and of course support Liverpool.

Maybe mentality needs to change on both sides but il be very very surprised if Loi fans change their ways.

Unfortunately without a proper league in Ireland our youth development will continue to suffer.

St.Spodo

Our Best Fans in the World need to start supporting their local side. We are hugely disadvantaged by not having a national league of good quality players from which we can choose for the national team.

CSF

joe123 wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

It is so funny how you haven't yet realised that its actually you with the chip on your shoulder.

Haha when it comes to Sligo Rovers I do! In all seriousness though I don't think things will ever change. People like yourself will give out/begrudge those that don't follow Loi not realising they have absolutely 0 presence outside most of the big cities. I will continue to support my local club and of course support Liverpool.

Maybe mentality needs to change on both sides but il be very very surprised if Loi fans change their ways.

Unfortunately without a proper league in Ireland our youth development will continue to suffer.

It's been quite a long time since I've had a go at anyone for not supporting a LOI club.

guinnessdrinker

St.Spodo wrote: »

Our Best Fans in the World need to start supporting their local side. We are hugely disadvantaged by not having a national league of good quality players from which we can choose for the national team.

But is it a case of effort on the fans part? I think it may be one of the reasons for Irish fans not supporting local Irish football.

It's very easy to sit in the comfort of your own home or in the pub and watch your team on TV but how many of those particular fans will go to a nearby game and stand in the wind and rain to support their local sides be they LOI or Junior sides?

Danye

CSF wrote: »

To be honest, a good analogy for my point would be if you told your mother she wasn't cooking your dinner the best way, she has every right to tell you to **** off mouthing and go do it yourself.

So even if my mother was cooking me dinner and she was giving me food poisoning it would be wrong for anybody to suggest she changed her methods be it me or anybody else?

Or because she took it upon herself to cook she has every right to continue poisoning me regardless??

CSF

Danye wrote: »

So even if my mother was cooking me dinner and she was giving me food poisoning it would be wrong for anybody to suggest she changed her methods be it me or anybody else?

Or because she took it upon herself to cook she has every right to continue poisoning me regardless??

If you are actually using food poisoning as an analogy for the current crop of Irish coaches you are either ridiculously ignorant or ridiculously disrespectful. Probably both, and don't have a breeze what you're talking about.

Danye

CSF wrote: »

To be honest, a good analogy for my point would be if you told your mother she wasn't cooking your dinner the best way, she has every right to tell you to **** off mouthing and go do it yourself.

CSF wrote: »

If you are actually using food poisoning as an analogy for the current crop of Irish coaches you are either ridiculously ignorant or ridiculously disrespectful. Probably both, and don't have a breeze what you're talking about.

No I'm using it as an analogy to counter act what your trying to say. The way your coming across is, if people aren't here practising what they preach they have no right to comment. Which in its self is ridiculously ignorant.

eyescreamcone

CSF - we heard you!
Anyone who does not coach a schoolboy team and do their badges has no right to offer any opinion!

That's us told so

bohsman

joe123 wrote: »

Haha when it comes to Sligo Rovers I do! In all seriousness though I don't think things will ever change. People like yourself will give out/begrudge those that don't follow Loi not realising they have absolutely 0 presence outside most of the big cities. I will continue to support my local club and of course support Liverpool.

Maybe mentality needs to change on both sides but il be very very surprised if Loi fans change their ways.

Unfortunately without a proper league in Ireland our youth development will continue to suffer.

You should be on the same side as the "LOI brigade". How much bigger could junior football including the club you are involved with become if the best fans in the world became involved and took more interest in the local game at all levels? I realise there are counties where it is easier to get to the mainland than to a LOI ground but surely all counties have junior clubs crying out for help?

Dub XV

eyescreamcone wrote: »

CSF - we heard you!
Anyone who does not coach a schoolboy team and do their badges has no right to offer any opinion!

That's us told so

When tf did he say that

joe123

bohsman wrote: »

You should be on the same side as the "LOI brigade". How much bigger could junior football including the club you are involved with become if the best fans in the world became involved and took more interest in the local game at all levels? I realise there are counties where it is easier to get to the mainland than to a LOI ground but surely all counties have junior clubs crying out for help?

But the problem is these LOI teams do NOTHING to help clubs like mine and the many other junior sides struggling in the various leagues. Look at all the good Sligo Rovers did?

We embarrased them off the pitch leaving the people that came down to watch it thinking, jesus this junior side are just after smashing a so called Sligo Rovers team. If they had brought down proper players we could of witnessed some good quality football. When in truth we knew we were playing a bunch of jokers.

LOI teams dont help themselves by having 0 involvement with junior soccer.

Again I dont want to hear stories of Dublin clubs etc, but in counties such as mine (Mayo) there is nothing.

What incentive is there for people from my town to travel over an hour away to the nearest LOI side when they never advertise, never promote and never get involved with surrounding communities/cubs.

guinnessdrinker

joe123 wrote: »

What incentive is there for people from my town to travel over an hour away to the nearest LOI side when they never advertise, never promote and never get involved with surrounding communities/cubs.

Joe, you have to also remember that LOI sides are ran in the main by volunteers. These volunteers have to keep the show on the road. You could probably count on one hand the number of full time employees outside the first team at a club like Sligo Rovers.

Advertising costs money, while it would be great to see games advertised to a wider base, it is not always possible due to financial constraints. There is only so much the couple of full time employees and volunteers can do and there is no large scale commercial operations in any LOI clubs that I know of.

Mal-Adjusted

bohsman wrote: »

You should be on the same side as the "LOI brigade". How much bigger could junior football including the club you are involved with become if the best fans in the world became involved and took more interest in the local game at all levels? I realise there are counties where it is easier to get to the mainland than to a LOI ground but surely all counties have junior clubs crying out for help?

MANUTD99

Another factor also is the amount of sports Ireland are involved in for a small population.

I am also involved in the GAA (so I won't criticize) and along with Rugby (no knowledge of), it takes up a large pool of youngsters spread across different sports. From my own experience growing up I could never decide if football or GAA was my future(it turned out I was ****e at both!)

I always find the GAA to be more family orientated though and push the extra mile in recruiting young kids these days

One other aspect which I have seen first hand. Dublin winning the Sam Maguire last year has seen a surge of kids playing Gaelic football in my community(more so than football) I was walking in the memorial gardens in Dublin 8 last weekend and there was about a dozen kids of African descent playing Gaelic. The GAA would have creamed their pants lol

CSF

eyescreamcone wrote: »

CSF - we heard you!
Anyone who does not coach a schoolboy team and do their badges has no right to offer any opinion!

That's us told so

No, way off the mark. I'm all for free speech and opinions and all that. I just think it is rude and hypocritical to be on the internet criticising volunteers doing something to help children that you're not willing to do.

If people have great ideas on how to improve football in this country. Great, but go out and implement them, don't expect someone else to.

eire4

I understand that maybe the FAI cannot afford to have a residential academy where say the best young players come and live in and train in every day under the top FAI coaches eyes. But maybe there are other ways. Maybe the FAI could pay to have players in digs and make an agreement with a nearby scondary school for the players to go to school there. Thus they have school taken care of can train together daily with FAI coaches and then stay in digs.Sure the FAI would have to spend some serious money to make this happen but Ireland needs a national FAI academy for it's best young talent badly.

CSF

eire4 wrote: »

I understand that maybe the FAI cannot afford to have a residential academy where say the best young players come and live in and train in every day under the top FAI coaches eyes. But maybe there are other ways. Maybe the FAI could pay to have players in digs and make an agreement with a nearby by scondary school for the players to go to school there. Thus they ahve school taken care of can train together daily with FAI coaches and then stay in digs.Sure the FAI would have to spend money to make this happen but Ireland needs a national FAI academy for it's best young talent badly.

The FAI are broke.

MANUTD99

CSF wrote: »

The FAI are broke.

The FAI are a jobs for the boys club.

The mentality has to be stopped here before anywhere. How can someone justify €450k as a salary for such a small country is a joke. The heirarcy of this foundation needs to be broken.

CSF

MANUTD99 wrote: »

The FAI are a jobs for the boys club.

The mentality has to be stopped here before anywhere. How can someone justify €450k as a salary for such a small country is a joke. The heirarcy of this foundation needs to be broken.

Agreed, dunno how to go about fixing that though.

MANUTD99

CSF wrote: »

Agreed, dunno how to go about fixing that though.

Yeah it's a tough cookie alright. I did this last year. I emailed them about the purchasing vantage tickets for 10 people(I'm not even friends with 10 people nor have the money for these tickets). I got a email after 10 mins. I got at least 20 emails within the same week.

I emailed regarding buying a jersey without the 3 logo, I emailed regarding the salary of John Delany, I emailed regarding the LOI players supposedly made not having access to a shower at the Aviva tournament.. I emailed about Limerick not being allowed to play Barca, I emailed about my local junior side not having enough money to support the local kids. I emailed about having a FAI rep to hand out trophies to the kids at the end of year awards with the local kids teams. I did not get one response for any of these emails

Fast forward to GAA and Dublin County Board, I was contacted by them asking if they could bring the Sam Maguire so the kids could get photo's, meet the players etc etc

micks

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Yeah it's a tough cookie alright. I did this last year. I emailed them about the purchasing vantage tickets for 10 people(I'm not even friends with 10 people nor have the money for these tickets). I got a email after 10 mins. I got at least 20 emails within the same week.

I emailed regarding buying a jersey without the 3 logo, I emailed regarding the salary of John Delany, I emailed regarding the LOI players supposedly made not having access to a shower at the Aviva tournament.. I emailed about Limerick not being allowed to play Barca, I emailed about my local junior side not having enough money to support the local kids. I emailed about having a FAI rep to hand out trophies to the kids at the end of year awards with the local kids teams. I did not get one response for any of these emails

Fast forward to GAA and Dublin County Board, I was contacted by them asking if they could bring the Sam Maguire so the kids could get photo's, meet the players etc etc

So you basically spammed the FAI on the wind up with a false purchase?
They marked your email address as spam and now you're surprised you didn't get responses to subsequent emails?

MANUTD99

micks wrote: »

So you basically spammed the FAI on the wind up with a false purchase?
They marked your email address as spam and now you're surprised you didn't get responses to subsequent emails?

I emailed regarding all my questions before asking about the vantage club tickets.

I have gotten years of no response from them via email. As soon as I place an interest regarding premium tickets they were all over me. I did this to see if they were as non responsive to people who were looking for help in local junior teams to people who were looking to buy vantage tickets.

civis_liberalis

Coaching is the single thing that will make the most difference. Football just isn't coached properly and is generally badly organised in many places around the country. Elite coaching is one thing, but when you have GAA and rugby doing things properly from the first contact kids have with the sport, we are always going to be chasing to catch up in that regard.

TheDoc

Des wrote: »

Some kind of academy is needed, but as long as the FAI are paying their CEO 450k they aren't going to have the money for that.

***************************************

For too long we have depended on English club to take players at a young age and do their development for us. Any development that takes place in Ireland is geared towards getting players noticed by English scouts and those clubs paying the money to sustain the Irish clubs to bring through the next young players.

Joined up thinking between the clubs like Home Farm, Cherry Orchard etc, and the LoI Clubs near them is needed. At the moment the good players are put through the clubs who send players to England. We need to keep players in Ireland until they are 19,20,21, get them playing at the best clubs here, getting European experience with Shamrock Rovers, St Pats, Sligo, then the very best moving on, as would be normal in most of the smaller European countries like Scandinavia, former Yugoslavia etc, the very best players go abroad to bigger leagues, the less good ones stay home. The situation here is different.

When the players who don't make it come back to Ireland, there is nothing done to get them back into soccer here. They are disillusioned with the football life and fall into factory work and unemployment. Drink and waste their talents.

We'd also try to persuade the Irish eligible English players to declare. Now, only 40% of players in the PL are eligible for England, never mind Ireland, so any English born players playing at the highest level in England are playing for England, and those that are not picked, but are Irish eligible, are second or third rate players.

We need to address the development of players, right through to the early 20s, and not up to 14,15,16 and then send them off to England.

Have to disagree with this. The level and quality of coaching that young players will receive in England clubs through their mid teens to late teens is 100 times better then what they will receive here.

I would agree that some sort of developement is required for our players, as at the moment we are expecting the players to be training and educated at club level and come in the finish article. However this isn't a problem for most countries.

At present we have a horrendously poor group of players who can barely break into their frist team squad and linger mostly on the bench or with the reserves. But they are still getting a better footballing education then they are here.

Its ridiculous to advocate that players should be held here until 18,19,20. The most critical learning stage for a developing footballer is between the 16-20 bracket. This is where the fundamentals need to start becoming second nature, with the latter stages been positional and tactical awareness.

Keeping our players here until their 20's will simply mean they will be overlooked for the opportunity to play in England. While you correctly identify that English clubs are basically schooling our players, we cannot in any way shape or form to pretend we can do it better.
And as you also correctly pointed out, we simply don't have the funds to raise a national academy. We instead pay our top level exec's stupid salaries and we built a new stadium, stupidly, when we can never fill it, and the ball being played is durt. With a massive mortage hanging over the FAI heads, don't expect anything major to happen. When you then relate that to other nations, even Scotland and Wales, who have pumped money into development centres for their national young talent.

The problem with Irish football starts right down at the bottom. As mentioned by Des players come back from England and are disillusioned with the game. Many players go over being the best in their club here, but turn out to be the average in an English club. I've experienced this first hand with myself, relatives and team mates who went over.

Upon coming home, the disillusion normally sets in because of how poor Irish football is. Poor facilities, poor competition, constant struggles to gain your salary and just an all round poor attitude. Its the same with everything, if you've spent a few years around an environment of high standards, to go to somewhere significantly lower, you get disillusioned. And the urban myth that players hit the beer, unemployment etc. is just an urban myth. Most come home and slot back into normal life, its a very rare case when someone comes home and looses the plot, it just makes a more interesting story then someone who comes home, completes college and now works in IT or something.

I'm not that long out of football and the problems were evident, and going to watch my younger relatives play the problems are still ever evident. We can start with the league selection panels. Typically the idea being " The leagues best players put into a squad to play friendlies against bigger clubs and attend small tournaments". These selections are typically, not done entirely by scouts/selectors. A number of maybe 5-6 are actually scouted out and approached, while the rest are put forward by their clubs manager. A rep from the league will contact typically the top 3-4 clubs in the league based on position, and ask they send 3-4 players to the selection trials. This still happens...

There is also a pretty harrowing story at the moment where a very prominant north dublin schoolboy team, who were granted entrance to the Milk Cup by invitation, and were then assured they would be looked after, have been notified they will need to secure €500 per player. This team contains some outragous talent for 15 years old, and it will appear they will miss out unless some serious fundraising can be done. This cup is typically a one stop shop for many scouting networks to England, as alot of the top English schoolboy teams, as well as some very prominent European teams are in attendance.

I'm sure anyone here that played at the highest/high level of schoolboy football can tell hundreds of stories and they are ALLL the same.

• Favourtism in clubs for forwarding players for selection panels.
• No support in place for players being scouted to play abroad.
• Favourtism/assumptions based on a players club, not their talent.

I had put personal experiences and stories in this post initially but removed them to try keep the point more centred. The simply fact here the problems being seen at national level stem from how poor the game is scouted and maintained as grass roots. And its not like two defeats to Croatia and Spain are the cause of this, its been happening all the time. Its just people seem more willing to listen and notice it this week.

The problem isn't that we arn't selecting our creative players. The problem is not that our players arn't being coached by us, and the problem isn't that our players arn't making it.

The very simple problem, is there is an ALARMING amount of talented, top players, that don't get anywhere outside of their local club, simply because the very narrow minded scouting and talent searching from the FAI never stems outside of the big clubs in the LOI.

Zebra3

MANUTD99 wrote: »

The FAI are a jobs for the boys club.

The mentality has to be stopped here before anywhere. How can someone justify €450k as a salary for such a small country is a joke. The heirarcy of this foundation needs to be broken.

It's €400K a year Delaney is on (plus expenses and pension).

Absoulte disgraceful amount of money for a near bankrupt sports organisation to be paying the person who has driven them into financial meltdown.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/380173_432470056787446_532996599_n.jpg

dan1895

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's €400K a year Delaney is on (plus expenses and pension).

Absoulte disgraceful amount of money for a near bankrupt sports organisation to be paying the person who has driven them into financial meltdown.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/380173_432470056787446_532996599_n.jpg

His un-professionalism is outstanding.

micks

TheDoc wrote: »

Have to disagree with this. The level and quality of coaching that young players will receive in England clubs through their mid teens to late teens is 100 times better then what they will receive here.

I would agree that some sort of developement is required for our players, as at the moment we are expecting the players to be training and educated at club level and come in the finish article. However this isn't a problem for most countries.

At present we have a horrendously poor group of players who can barely break into their frist team squad and linger mostly on the bench or with the reserves. But they are still getting a better footballing education then they are here.

Its ridiculous to advocate that players should be held here until 18,19,20. The most critical learning stage for a developing footballer is between the 16-20 bracket. This is where the fundamentals need to start becoming second nature, with the latter stages been positional and tactical awareness.

Keeping our players here until their 20's will simply mean they will be overlooked for the opportunity to play in England. While you correctly identify that English clubs are basically schooling our players, we cannot in any way shape or form to pretend we can do it better.
And as you also correctly pointed out, we simply don't have the funds to raise a national academy. We instead pay our top level exec's stupid salaries and we built a new stadium, stupidly, when we can never fill it, and the ball being played is durt. With a massive mortage hanging over the FAI heads, don't expect anything major to happen. When you then relate that to other nations, even Scotland and Wales, who have pumped money into development centres for their national young talent.

The problem with Irish football starts right down at the bottom. As mentioned by Des players come back from England and are disillusioned with the game. Many players go over being the best in their club here, but turn out to be the average in an English club. I've experienced this first hand with myself, relatives and team mates who went over.

Upon coming home, the disillusion normally sets in because of how poor Irish football is. Poor facilities, poor competition, constant struggles to gain your salary and just an all round poor attitude. Its the same with everything, if you've spent a few years around an environment of high standards, to go to somewhere significantly lower, you get disillusioned. And the urban myth that players hit the beer, unemployment etc. is just an urban myth. Most come home and slot back into normal life, its a very rare case when someone comes home and looses the plot, it just makes a more interesting story then someone who comes home, completes college and now works in IT or something.

I'm not that long out of football and the problems were evident, and going to watch my younger relatives play the problems are still ever evident. We can start with the league selection panels. Typically the idea being " The leagues best players put into a squad to play friendlies against bigger clubs and attend small tournaments". These selections are typically, not done entirely by scouts/selectors. A number of maybe 5-6 are actually scouted out and approached, while the rest are put forward by their clubs manager. A rep from the league will contact typically the top 3-4 clubs in the league based on position, and ask they send 3-4 players to the selection trials. This still happens...

There is also a pretty harrowing story at the moment where a very prominant north dublin schoolboy team, who were granted entrance to the Milk Cup by invitation, and were then assured they would be looked after, have been notified they will need to secure €500 per player. This team contains some outragous talent for 15 years old, and it will appear they will miss out unless some serious fundraising can be done. This cup is typically a one stop shop for many scouting networks to England, as alot of the top English schoolboy teams, as well as some very prominent European teams are in attendance.

I'm sure anyone here that played at the highest/high level of schoolboy football can tell hundreds of stories and they are ALLL the same.

• Favourtism in clubs for forwarding players for selection panels.
• No support in place for players being scouted to play abroad.
• Favourtism/assumptions based on a players club, not their talent.

I had put personal experiences and stories in this post initially but removed them to try keep the point more centred. The simply fact here the problems being seen at national level stem from how poor the game is scouted and maintained as grass roots. And its not like two defeats to Croatia and Spain are the cause of this, its been happening all the time. Its just people seem more willing to listen and notice it this week.

The problem isn't that we arn't selecting our creative players. The problem is not that our players arn't being coached by us, and the problem isn't that our players arn't making it.

The very simple problem, is there is an ALARMING amount of talented, top players, that don't get anywhere outside of their local club, simply because the very narrow minded scouting and talent searching from the FAI never stems outside of the big clubs in the LOI.

There is no one problem with Irish football
To fix it would prob require scraping the whole lot top to bottom and starting again. Go down to the FAI agm it could easily be held in an old folks home, every league,committee etc has too many dinosaurs clinging on to power for their junkets
The hierarchy in Ireland is ridiculous clubs,leagues,provinces, national all pulling in their own directions with their own agendas
LOI clubs will say the big schoolboy clubs should feed them but why when the LOI clubs have had no interest in underage development. Shels are the only LOI club that I know of with a decent underage set up maybe there are more.
Players have to go on to england or where ever to play at the highest level they can, but if they were rovers/bohs/shels players going to utd/city etc then the money acquired would stay in the LOI. I was told by a member of one of the DDSL clubs that they get approx 80k per annum in "royalties" for players that have gone to england over the years they opted for a drip feed rather than a lump and its now running their club
On academy/players selection/development etc the FAI launched their "emerging talent program" a few years back I think the players out of the first batch are now approx 17/18 we should be seeing any benefits in the next few years wim koevermans leaving may mess that up. In contrast to the current senior set up the underage teams train and are supposed to play based on a 4-2-3-1 formation.
What the ETP has brought is 32(I think) centres in the country where players receive better coaching but also by having 600 approx kids in any given agegroup involved each year the net is being cast much wider than previously just looking at homefarm,kevins etc
This year the DDSL brought in a new selection method at U12 for their league panel, they've spent the whole season inviting every U12 team in their league to send players for selection although this will prob end up with the bigger teams just signing the lower league players that get spotted by the ddsl

No club i Ireland can offer a 15 yo what the likes of west ham,charlton etc never mind United in terms of quality coaching and the amount of contact hrs that they'd receive in england.
The coaching in Ireland is not that bad and I'd be surprised if most underage teams are not coached/managed by someone with at least KS2
Its not the answer but its a start.
Changing peoples mind set is the difficult part my club is not entering an U8 next season, instead they will be training 2-3 times mid week again on sat and then 5 aside blitz with other clubs on sat also. Biggest barrier is word leaking back that some parents have already said they'll sign and play for another club on the sunday, where as if every club done this it would not be an issue.

There is a change in Dublin/surrounding areas anyway where there are a lot of clubs have invested heavily in facilities and have properly structured clubs with good coaching in excellent facilities, that are pushing their way to the top leagues of the DDSL and when the get there will replace some of the clubs that offer nothing but a shortcut to england.

with the FA revamping their grassroots maybe that will push something to happen here not going to be easy if its even tried.

I wonder are they having this debate in Holland this morning?

TheDoc

In Holland, probably not, because they had a good structural plan and they stuck with it. Many countries have invested heavily, ripped things up from their foundations and started a new. A short term hit for a long term gain.

The minute they put the wheels in motion for that stadium, that will never fill ( when Ireland play anyway) all probabilities for a revamp went out the window.

We will most likely stick to the current, which is outdated and has really never worked, because we have to pay off the stadium , simple as.

The_Kew_Tour

I just hope that our performance in the Euros will be the wake up call needed.

It took too long as it was.

Things will take time, but its important that football here can act swiftly.

recylingbin

The thing that really needs to change is completely out of our hands, unfortunately.
We need our best players scouted by european and not english clubs imo.

CiaranC

recylingbin wrote: »

The thing that really needs to change is completely out of our hands, unfortunately.
We need our best players scouted by european and not english clubs imo.

This is genius. we just need whoever is currently the best at developing young players to do the job for us. We can rotate it every couple of years sure.

Football in this country is doomed

eyescreamcone

CiaranC wrote: »

Football in this country is doomed

I don't agree.
The 2 countries who qualified from our group are now in the semis.

Anyone who expects us to be regularly challanging the big boys is off their head.

Now and then qualification is the best we can hope for - with a bit of a surprise at a tournament once per generation.

A lot of people need a dose of "realistic expectation".

With the best preparation possible this is the result we can expect.

davocesque

TheDoc wrote: »

The very simple problem, is there is an ALARMING amount of talented, top players, that don't get anywhere outside of their local club, simply because the very narrow minded scouting and talent searching from the FAI never stems outside of the big clubs in the LOI.

Great line. I went to college in England when i was 19, went straight from a LOI club (U21s). While in college i played step 3, which is 3 leagues below the conference. the facilities were fantastic, the quality was ok. when i returned home after college i played lsl senior sunday. We had a FAR better standard i felt, but the facilities were much worse. if i played step 3, there is defo players in the lsl who would play pro in england at some level. but for whatever reason they are here, this obviously wont solve all our issues knowing we have players who can slum it in the lower leagues in england, but i believe its an indication that the talent is here. we need to nurture it.

we need to go out on our own. forget england as much as possible. for too long we have tried to copy them, we have looked up to them. i think we should have regionalised school of excellence. say 2 for the dublin area and then another 6-8 around the country. we have in place regional development officers, so make it part of their job to go out and scout on a saturday and sunday morning to sallynoggin or fairview park or wherever, and independently choose the best players. start at under 14, and allow them train away from their own club on a thursday with a Uefa A coach.

its a small step, but its a start.

there is so many little things we could inforce. like ALL schoolboy clubs must register with the FAI. then the FAI sends out emails every so often with contemporary ideas on football development. All clubs are encouraged to play the same formation all the way through.

it would be great if the fai could develop links with spanish clubs in the hope that we could have 'player exchange' programmes too. players could swap for 2-3 months and learn a different culture while playing a different style.

football competes with rugby and GAA so we need to have a bigger influence on the schooling system too. promote the fact that people like Stephen Ward have won the Leinster Schools cup, make it more prestigious.

There are so many little things we could do that i think would help!!

civis_liberalis

Loosely related to the thread topic, but the FAI seem to be trying to put right what they were partly responsible for creating in Galway.

It was reported in the Connacht Sentinel that a Galway United Supporters Trust (GUST) team has been accepted into the 2012-13 Under 19 League.

Apparently the FAI insisted that the team plays out of Terryland Park, which the Galway FA, I'm told were only happy to facilitate.