Women enjoying a drink in the pub alone.

FGR

I was surprised when in the US how girls would approach you without a bother or gladly invite you into a conversation.

I'm too used to meeting girls in the pub as I'm conditioned to the status of being accused of being a creep if I do speak to someone at random.

Tbh - I prefer the way it's like in other places.

xzanti

eviltwin wrote: »

Oh god I have often being that woman :eek: I will go into town to meet friends and if I am the first one there I'll go in get a seat and order a drink. Why would I bother wait outside? I'm pretty shocked to think that men would think I'm some kind of sad singleton just praying some man will take pity on me and talk to me

As I just said a moment ago ^^^^ waiting at the bar for your friends is different to sitting there on your own all night.. You can tell the difference.. the friends/boyfriends materialising is a big clue

Eve_Dublin

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Good God. :eek:

This thread is an absolutely astounding eye opener into just how f*cked up Irish social relations actually are. And I'm not singling out either gender there, ye're as bad as eachother.

Then I remember that Boards.ie is totally unrepresentative of most Irish men and women, and breath a heavy sigh of relief.

I don't really know who's to blame for the state of sex in Ireland. Some would say the Catholic church, some would say Irish history, idk. It's quite depressing when the extremes of it come out in threads like this.

Relax man. This is Boards. AH specifically. Not a reflection of sexual relationships in Ireland. I never had any problems living there....encountered the same kinds of problems anywhere I've lived.

Daveysil15

FGR wrote: »

I was surprised when in the US how girls would approach you without a bother or gladly invite you into a conversation.

I'm too used to meeting girls in the pub as I'm conditioned to the status of being accused of being a creep if I do speak to someone at random.

Tbh - I prefer the way it's like in other places.

Me too. Approaching random people here is not the same. Some look at you as if you're a dog with 10 willies! It's a lot easier in the states and other places. They're more laid back.

jaja321

I have to say the attitude that a woman can't go out on her own and enjoy a drink or she's desperate really saddens me. A couple of weeks ago I was really in the mood for a drink; friends weren't around, boyfriend wasn't around, was I supposed to just sit at home? No, I went out had a few glasses of wine, enjoyed a read, and had a nice evening. Don't think that's desperate to be fair.

xzanti

We're all entitled to our own opinions... Each to their own.

py2006

jaja321 wrote: »

I have to say the attitude that a woman can't go out on her own and enjoy a drink or she's desperate really saddens me. A couple of weeks ago I was really in the mood for a drink; friends weren't around, boyfriend wasn't around, was I supposed to just sit at home? No, I went out had a few glasses of wine, enjoyed a read, and had a nice evening. Don't think that's desperate to be fair.

Desperate for a drink maybe!! (oh no he didn't)

Daveysil15

jaja321 wrote: »

I have to say the attitude that a woman can't go out on her own and enjoy a drink or she's desperate really saddens me. A couple of weeks ago I was really in the mood for a drink; friends weren't around, boyfriend wasn't around, was I supposed to just sit at home? No, I went out had a few glasses of wine, enjoyed a read, and had a nice evening. Don't think that's desperate to be fair.

Fair play to you, and no its not desperate. Some people are just judgemental.

validusername1

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The fact that being approached by a guy is automatically regarded as a horrible bad by many women, apparently.
The fact that guys seem to think a smile or a "hello" back signals an automatic shag later on.
The whole "boys on one side, girls on the other side" vibe we have going on in Ireland.

I know what you mean. I think the 1st one is because a lot of girls are just up themselves & assume a ''hello'' means he's looking for a ride cause she's just so hot.. :rolleyes:. I talk back to guys who say hello when I meet them out. I've actually had great craic doing this and the guy doesn't necessarily always try something more. May be hard for some girls to believe but sometimes, he isn't talking to you because you're just so gorgeous and he really wants to do you. But I think a lot of the reason certain guys assume a ''hello'' back signals a ride is because of how ignorant a lot of girls are. So many girls will just turn their nose up at a guy who tries to say hey to them, that when a girl actually says hello back, it's like ''oh she must be well up for it!''. When in fact..no, she's probably just a nice, non-ignorant person.. One time at a club, I saw a guy across the bar & it looked like he tried to talk to the girl beside him but she walked away (tad rude) then later on he ended up beside me and he smiled and said hello, so I did the same back (just being friendly), then he reached into his pocket, pulled out a condom and showed it to me, with a look on his face as if to say ''right let's go use this''. I think that was a bit of an extreme version of assuming rights to a ride just 'cause I said hello back..

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This thread confirms a lot of it, I feel. The number of woman suggesting that being approached is a bad thing in itself, and on the flipside the number of guys with a sense of entitlement just for saying hi.
'tis rather depressing.

Yeah, I wouldn't think being approached by a guy in public was 'bad' but I would find it out of the ordinary.. Not weird, but just not the done thing. I'd still talk back though. I think there's too much emphasis on nightclubs being the only place to meet people of the opposite sex.

Daveysil15

validusername1 wrote: »

I think there's too much emphasis on nightclubs being the only place to meet people of the opposite sex.

It's sad but true, and yet I don't know any couples that have met in a club. You can't have a great conversation with someone in a club anyway. Maybe online dating is the way forward - although that's for another thread!

VEN

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

When I asked her how she would have reacted if an Irish guy had tried the same strategy, she basically said: "First, no Irish guy would EVER do that. And if he did, you would know right away that he was some sort of weirdo."

And there you have it -- random French guys are charming; random Irish guys are weirdos or losers.

i know strange isn't it? and they wonder then why... :rolleyes:

VEN

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Me too. Approaching random people here is not the same. Some look at you as if you're a dog with 10 willies! It's a lot easier in the states and other places. They're more laid back.

ah but we're irish dogs with 10 willies, different story if you're not. its like watching someone hit the lotto, well ok 4 numbers might do it.

aaronjumper

I wouldn't judge a woman for wanting to drink alone. I just find it odd that you would go somewhere public to be alone. The same way going somewhere that is incredibly isolated because you want to meet people would be odd.

hatrickpatrick

FGR wrote: »

I was surprised when in the US how girls would approach you without a bother or gladly invite you into a conversation.

I'm too used to meeting girls in the pub as I'm conditioned to the status of being accused of being a creep if I do speak to someone at random.

Tbh - I prefer the way it's like in other places.

This is what I mean about Ireland having some serious social issues. I very much hope we can grow out of them, which may become more and more of a possibility with the demise of the social right wing, but who knows? Maybe it's more than that.

hatrickpatrick

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It's sad but true, and yet I don't know any couples that have met in a club. You can't have a great conversation with someone in a club anyway. Maybe online dating is the way forward - although that's for another thread!

I met my last GF in a nightclub
Exception though, most girls I've met in a nightclub are only up for the one night kind of thing, actually my last GF was the first time I've met a girl in a club who was interested in anything beyond that.

Maybe that says more about the impression I make than anything else though

Eve_Dublin

VEN wrote: »

perhaps wasn't looking to be chatted up.

was once at a house party, was only in the door 30 minutes when an irish girl followed me in to the toilet, closed and locked the door behind her and started to quiz me as to why i wasn't hitting on the mostly foreign girls there. all of this stuff started coming out of her, "you just need to be confident" "you should go out there and try" bizarre in that i had only arrived and i just told her, "i never said i was interested in any of these girls, i just got here, leave me alone"

i never met her before, then i thought maybe she was hoping i'd hit on her.

left me confused.

Must be hard to know if you're interested in them or not if you refuse to look at women. Do you use your sense of smell or what?

Scanlas The 2nd

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

validusername1 wrote: »

Interested to know what you mean by this and what the 'state of sex in Ireland' actually is, in your opinion?

The amount of apparent bitterness between the genders for a start.
The fact that being approached by a guy is automatically regarded as a horrible bad by many women, apparently.
The fact that guys seem to think a smile or a "hello" back signals an automatic shag later on.
The whole "boys on one side, girls on the other side" vibe we have going on in Ireland.

Maybe this is just me, but in other countries I find people are far more relaxed. We have a serious amount of repression in this country, which can probably still be traced back to pervasive social conservatism for generations.

Check this article out:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-457684/Rihanna-The-girls-gone-bad.html

Rihanna wrote:

"I?ve met loads of men like that in Britain. British men tend to be very forward, too, and I find that very attractive."
She gives me a saucy Babs Windsor wink ? and then suddenly deflates.
"But then I visited Dublin recently and didn?t get chatted up once! That was so disappointing. Not that there?s much I could have done about it. I?m so busy that I?ve got no time for a boyfriend right now."

Quote from Rihanna about her time in Ireland.

Now check these two out.
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/love-sex/y-the-txtage-irishman-is-just-drving-me-crzy-2844075.html

Article by a woman lamenting the shyness of Irish guys.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/love-sex/hey-lottie-do-you-really-want-to-know-why-irish-men-drink-so-much-before-chatting-up-women-2840511.html

Response by a guy about why this is the case. This part in particular stands out:

As Lottie points out, in most European countries and especially in the US, it's quite acceptable for a guy to randomly approach a girl and ask her for her number and a date. It's a civilised, grown-up dating culture (and as such has no place in Catholic Ireland).

But you should try to do this in Dublin, Cork or Galway. Seriously, go up to a girl on the street or in a cafe and try to chat her up. You are as likely to spend the next hour talking to a guard as the lady in question.

A lot of women tend to assume that if you are a stranger showing an interest in them, you are some sort of escaped weirdo. It may be a sensible defence mechanism, but it does make life difficult for single guys.

A friend of mine was recently chatted up by a charming French man while out strolling in Dublin city centre and they later went on a date.

When I asked her how she would have reacted if an Irish guy had tried the same strategy, she basically said: "First, no Irish guy would EVER do that. And if he did, you would know right away that he was some sort of weirdo."

And there you have it -- random French guys are charming; random Irish guys are weirdos or losers.

This thread confirms a lot of it, I feel. The number of woman suggesting that being approached is a bad thing in itself, and on the flipside the number of guys with a sense of entitlement just for saying hi.

'tis rather depressing.

I never noticed this until I travelled a bit and discovered that this kind of awkwardness just melts away in other places.

Really, how many women in Ireland have you approached on the street?

I've done it and we got on great. when you expect people to be friendly it becomes more likely they will be friendly.

One thing I can't stand is men complaining you can't approach women in the street when they have never even tried. Then they come out with crap about women calling the guards.

Eve_Dublin

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Really, how many women in Ireland have you approached on the street?

I've done it and we got on great. when you expect people to be friendly it becomes more likely they will be friendly.

One thing I can't stand is men complaining you can't approach women in the street when they have never even tried. Then they come out with crap about women calling the guards.

Yes. How many men complaining about Irish women calling the guards for appraoching them on the street :rolleyes: have actually done it? I'd say very few. I've been approached by strangers in Italy and Argentina. Both time I was flattered, was polite but declined as I wasn't single. I've also been asked out in Dublin in an internet cafe by an Irish guy. It was so unexpected and he did it in such an honest, friendly way, I accepted. We went on a few dates but nothing came of it. We're still in touch now though.

It really depends on how you approach someone. Irish men are more shy than guys from Latin cultures, for example that sometimes their approach might come across a little awkward. Latins are smooth as fook but you know it can be very insincere and they've probably done it a million times. I was naive to it when I came across it the first time and thought it was charming because it'd never happened to me before.

By the way, foreign men in foreign countries tend to target foreign women presuming they'll be easier to seduce. Local women are a lot more wary to it, so things aren't necessarily ideal elsewhere.

py2006

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Yes. How many men complaining about Irish women calling the guards for appraoching them on the street :rolleyes: have actually done it?

I'm not sure he was being literal there. I think it was an exaggeration to highlight the fact that a lot of girls here would not appreciate being approached by a stranger especially on the street and some would let you know in no uncertain terms.

Its just not the done thing here for whatever reason.

VEN

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Must be hard to know if you're interested in them or not if you refuse to look at women. Do you use your sense of smell or what?

yes, its great! i wouldn't look at you anyway by the sound of you, as im pretty sure i'd 'hear' you first. run a mile as they say.

VEN

py2006 wrote: »

I'm not sure he was being literal there. I think it was an exaggeration to highlight the fact that a lot of girls here would not appreciate being approached by a stranger especially on the street and some would let you know in no uncertain terms.

Its just not the done thing here for whatever reason.

they'd appreciate it if you're foreign, latin whatever, surely they're not 'psychos'. even if you look like one you just might get passed that scared look. we don't do it anymore, we have others to do it every week for us.

OldNotWIse

MagicMarker wrote: »

Pubs are traditionally used to "meet" people, if you go to a pub then I don't think you have any right to complain about people approaching you, that's obviously why they're there. It sucks but that's just the way it is.

The people approaching you should get the hint if you want to be left alone though, there's no call for acting aggressively or anything.

OldNotWIse

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Yes but that's exactly what I mean. It's more acceptable there and the women put up with it. In other words the men have the power there.

Not necessarily true. My other half is from South America and I remember being out with her in town one night and some guy grabbed her ass and she hit him

Eve_Dublin

VEN wrote: »

yes, its great! i wouldn't look at you anyway by the sound of you, as im pretty sure i'd 'hear' you first. run a mile as they say.

Ooooh burn! Ye got me there! :cool:

Well you´d have to run away to avoid looking at me as I´m a WOMAN!!

Jesus you sound like a right barrel of laughs! I was joking. You sound very intense.

Edit: Don´t want to argue with you anymore. It´s pointless and not very nice. I extend the hand of peace.....

Eve_Dublin

py2006 wrote: »

I'm not sure he was being literal there. I think it was an exaggeration to highlight the fact that a lot of girls here would not appreciate being approached by a stranger especially on the street and some would let you know in no uncertain terms.

Its just not the done thing here for whatever reason.

How does he know that though? Has he actually attempted to approach any? I really doubt it. His female friend he mentions sounds like a bit of a spa, tbh. Wouldn´t call her representative of me.

Have you py2006? In a public place I mean....

old hippy

You meet people & you talk to them - you get on or you don't. Be it Dublin, London, Paris, New York, wherever. People are only wary if you positively exude bad vibes...

mikemac1

That good looking guy approached me in the street and asked me out. So original and couragous, why can't more Irish men be like this?

The badly ugly looking guy approached me in the street and asked me out. What a freak, who does that!


The two lads could have said the same thing but one is refreshingly brave and the other is a weirdo :rolleyes:


Sure you'd hear it in the office after any party. One lad chats her up and the other lad hassles her, depends on if she likes them or not

Eve_Dublin

mikemac1 wrote: »

That good looking guy approached me in the street and asked me out. So original and couragous, why can't more Irish men be like this?

The badly ugly looking guy approached me in the street and asked me out. What a freak, who does that!


The two lads could have said the same thing but one is refreshingly brave and the other is a weirdo :rolleyes:


Sure you'd hear it in the office after any party. One lad chats her up and the other lad hassles her, depends on if she likes them or not

That applies to men too btw. Man gets chatted up by ugly bird he has a laugh about it with his mates....good looking girl, he boats. It´s human nature. Only a real dick, both male and female, would be rude about it and I think they´re the minority.

And are you talking from actual anecdotes here or just what you presume? The men I´ve dated in the past have been far from ideal looks-wise but they were sound and funny.

mikemac1

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And are you talking from actual anecdotes here

What I hear in the office the mornings after the staff nights out mainly

The wimmins love to discuss everything with their girlfriends

VEN

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Ooooh burn! Ye got me there! :cool:

Well you´d have to run away to avoid looking at me as I´m a WOMAN!!

Jesus you sound like a right barrel of laughs! I was joking. You sound very intense.

the 'some' not the 'all' women remember, so please don't try to 'manipulate' my words to make yourself look cool, you're not good at it.

theres nothing intense about my posts, 6,000+ posts is intense.

Eve_Dublin

mikemac1 wrote: »

What I hear in the office the mornings after the staff nights out mainly

The wimmins love to discuss everything with their girlfriends

They sound like a right bunch of cows if I´m honest. Would never talk about a fella that way unless he was actually being a creep...and that doesn´t depend on their looks, it depends on whether they´re actually acting creepy. Some of the creepiest men I´ve ever encountered have been lookers.

And I´ve heard the very same conversations among men btw. Hell you even get it here in AH! Men commenting on women´s looks. Wouldn´t presume it´s the majority and it says a huge amount about the individual. Not worth wasting your time on those types.

Eve_Dublin

VEN wrote: »

the 'some' not the 'all' women remember, so please don't try to 'manipulate' my words to make yourself look cool, you're not good at it.

theres nothing intense about my posts, 6,000+ posts is intense.

Ye wha? As I said, don´t want to argue with you anymore. Peace.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Some of the creepiest men I´ve ever encountered have been lookers.

.

Are you talking about dogging here?
If so, i agree.:)

Eve_Dublin

RVP 11 wrote: »

Are you talking about dogging here?
If so, i agree.:)

Can´t beat a spot of the auld doggin´.;)

old hippy

Here's an anecdote for you, I was in a pub last night and there was a pissed up bloke in a very bad mood, nursing a broken arm and a whiskey. He attempted to sit at a table where two women (mother and daughter) were enjoying a drink. They told him to please leave. He sat beside another guy and proceeded to make everyone nervous - shouting down his phone to his wife. Alternatively pleading with her and threatening her. He left to buy cigs, the mother and daughter got chatting with the guy he'd sat beside and he eventually came over and had a laugh with them. Meanwhile, 2 other women sat where the pissed bloke had been. He came back and they lasted 5 mins before moving elsewhere.

At this stage there was a wide space around the pissed bloke and I glanced at the sign on the pub door "we serve drinks, not drunks". Evidently not last night. Anyway, cut to the chase - the mother and daughter left but not before the daughter and nice chap had swapped numbers

Gosh only knows what happened to mr bad vibes but sometimes it can be almost essential to have a pub nutter around...

py2006

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

How does he know that though? Has he actually attempted to approach any? I really doubt it. His female friend he mentions sounds like a bit of a spa, tbh. Wouldn´t call her representative of me.

Have you py2006? In a public place I mean....

No I haven't to be honest and I don't think I ever would, especially a random stranger on the street. Strangers approaching strangers on the street is a dicey one. Potentially it could be an attacker or pick pocketer so you can understand women (especially) being uncomfortable with it.

py2006

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

That applies to men too btw. Man gets chatted up by ugly bird he has a laugh about it with his mates....good looking girl, he boats.

Even you will have to admit that those situations are extremely rare.

Scanlas The 2nd

py2006 wrote: »

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

How does he know that though? Has he actually attempted to approach any? I really doubt it. His female friend he mentions sounds like a bit of a spa, tbh. Wouldn´t call her representative of me.

Have you py2006? In a public place I mean....

No I haven't to be honest and I don't think I ever would, especially a random stranger on the street. Strangers approaching strangers on the street is a dicey one. Potentially it could be an attacker or pick pocketer so you can understand women (especially) being uncomfortable with it.

A man could be a pick pocketer in a nightclub too. Also you aren't a pick pocketer i assume so she'll be fine.

A shopping centre is better IMO. Also by the same reasoning it's dicey to ask for directions or the time as you could be a pick pocketer.

Daveysil15

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Jesus you sound like a right barrel of laughs! I was joking. You sound very intense.

In fairness your jokes are not in the least bit funny. You're like a kid poking a bee hive with a stick, waiting for a response.

starviewadams

Most of my drinking mates have either emigrated or have girlfriends so I find myself going out drinking on my own in town on a Friday or Saturday night a lot more recently.It's quite weird,I've been approached by way more women in the past few weeks when out drinking by myself then I've ever been when out with a group of my mates!

Maybe some girls find a lad sitting at the bar drinking by himself less threatening then approaching a group of us,whatever it is I'm not complaining anyways!

Eve_Dublin

Daveysil15 wrote: »

In fairness your jokes are not in the least bit funny. You're like a kid poking a bee hive with a stick, waiting for a response.

Yes you would say that, wouldn't you having been the butt of one? (got a few thanks if I remember correctly) Luckily it's only you and your two stooges who agree. :-)

And they were light-hearted comments because this is AH. Not trying to be funny but to rid this discussion of us v them mentality that some posters always bring into this.

Nothing I said prior to VEN implying I was easy was unfair. Have a read back if you don't believe me.

Nice passive aggressiveness there py2006 with the thanks. Whatever your problem is with me, I'd appreciate you'd report me instead. Very brave :rolleyes:

Eve_Dublin

py2006 wrote: »

Even you will have to admit that those situations are extremely rare.

If you read the the rest of my post, that's exactly what I said....

Richard Hillman

old hippy wrote: »

Here's an anecdote for you, I was in a pub last night and there was a pissed up bloke in a very bad mood, nursing a broken arm and a whiskey. He attempted to sit at a table where two women (mother and daughter) were enjoying a drink. They told him to please leave. He sat beside another guy and proceeded to make everyone nervous - shouting down his phone to his wife. Alternatively pleading with her and threatening her. He left to buy cigs, the mother and daughter got chatting with the guy he'd sat beside and he eventually came over and had a laugh with them. Meanwhile, 2 other women sat where the pissed bloke had been. He came back and they lasted 5 mins before moving elsewhere.

At this stage there was a wide space around the pissed bloke and I glanced at the sign on the pub door "we serve drinks, not drunks". Evidently not last night. Anyway, cut to the chase - the mother and daughter left but not before the daughter and nice chap had swapped numbers

Gosh only knows what happened to mr bad vibes but sometimes it can be almost essential to have a pub nutter around...

That drunk guy sounds like a great wingman :cool:

Daveysil15

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Yes you would say that, wouldn't you? Luckily it's only you and your two stooges who agree. :-)

Nice passive aggressiveness there py2006 with the thanks. Whatever your problem is with me, I'd appreciate you'd report me instead. Very brave :rolleyes:

Relax Eve, I was only joking. See its not nice when the jokes are aimed at you are they?

Eve_Dublin

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Relax Eve, I was only joking. See its not nice when the jokes are aimed at you are they?

What joke? You're going to have to explain that one. And no, it's neither nice nor not nice. I'm fairly neutral about them tbh as it's AH.


If you have a problem with me, report me. Female posters are individuals with our own opinions....not one collective hive-mind.

py2006

:rolleyes:


Anyway, I would love to hear from more women who enjoy going for a drink on their own and their experiences...

Daveysil15

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

What joke? You're going to have to explain that one. And no, it's neither nice nor not nice. I'm fairly neutral about them tbh as it's AH.


If you have a problem with me, report me. Female posters are individuals with our own opinions....not one collective hive-mind.

I never said anything to the contrary. My joke is as much of a joke as your joke about the price of milk. :rolleyes: If you're going to be dishing out that sort of stuff you have to be able to take it. And I'm not affiliated with any stooges. I'm an individual too. You're making a mountain out of a mould here.

Eve_Dublin

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I never said anything to the contrary. My joke is as much of a joke as your joke about the price of milk. :rolleyes: If you're going to be dishing out that sort of stuff you have to be able to take it. And I'm not affiliated with any stooges. I'm an individual too. You're making a mountain out of a mould here.

It's mole hill....

I can take your "jokes". As I said, I'm completely impermeable to your wacky sense of humour. No problems.

Edit: the milk comment was making the point that your comment on whether the guy was handsome or not or sound or not or all these "what ifs" you put in place were pointless. Every situation is different. You can't generalise or foretell on how someone would react in a given situation.

Sorry my comment hurt you so much (if it did...that wasn't my intention).

Eve_Dublin

py2006 wrote: »

:rolleyes:


Anyway, I would love to hear from more women who enjoy going for a drink on their own and their experiences...

I do. Every time I've done it, it's been great.

Daveysil15

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

It's mole hill....

I can take your "jokes". As I said, I'm completely impermeable to your wacky sense of humour. No problems.

Edit: the milk comment was making the point that your comment on whether the guy was handsome or not or sound or not or all these "what ifs" you put in place were pointless. Every situation is different. You can't generalise or foretell on how someone would react in a given situation.

Sorry my comment hurt you so much (if it did...that wasn't my intention).

You love to twist things to suit yourself don't you? First you said we were both bad at telling jokes, then you had to edit your comment to say I have a wacky sense of humour. :rolleyes:

I thought I made a good analogy earlier, and a couple of people replied to it with a proper answer, rather than just taking the piss out of it. You also felt the need to keep winding up VEN, not that I agreed with everything he said, but it just seems like you're stirring. Or maybe I'm completely impermeable to your wacky sense of humour. Who knows?