Standard of Officiating at Euro 2012?

Seaneh

Right, tonight Giorgos Karagounis was denied a stone wall penalty and given a yellow for diving in a match where he was immense and helped get his country to the quarters against all the odds against a much better Russian team.

That yellow now means he will not be able to play in the next round and odds are, Greece won't progress past that so effectively a terrible reffing decision has ended his Euros.

These Euro's have been, IMHO, the best international tournament in years, the games have almost all been very enjoyable and there have been some amazing moments of individual brilliance and great team performances.

However, one thing that has badly let the whole thing down has been some horrible calls from refs and their assistants.

Just off the top of my head there was that call tonight, poor Italy had about 5 wrong offsides calls against Maggio when he was on the end of perfectly weighted Pirlo passes against Greece, Robbie Keane was chopped down in the box infront of the ref and nothing given and so forth.

How is reffing of such a **** standard still possible in this day and age?

CSF

Seaneh wrote: »

Right, tonight Giorgos Karagounis was denied a stone wall penalty and given a yellow for diving in a match where he was immense and helped get his country to the quarters against all the odds against a much better Russian team.

That yellow now means he will not be able to play in the next round and odds are, Greece won't progress past that so effectively a terrible reffing decision has ended his Euros.

These Euro's have been, IMHO, the best international tournament in years, the games have almost all been very enjoyable and there have been some amazing moments of brilliance individuals and great team performances.

However, one thing that has badly let the whole thing down has been some horrible calls from refs and their assistants.

Just off the top of my head there was that call tonight, poor Italy had about 5 wrong offsides calls against Maggio when he was on the end of perfectly weighted Pirlo passes against Greece, Robbie Keane was chopped down in the box infront of the ref and nothing given and so forth.

How is reffing of **** a **** standard still possible in this day and age?

Because, in the end, they are only human.

bookie basher

exactly they have got some calls wrong but alot more right, its just not possible for a ref to get every decision right in 90 minutes

wonga77

I dont ever remember either of the guys behind the goal making a decision
In one of the games yesterday(French I think) the ball went clearly over the end line and should have been a corner, slo mo replay showed the extra ref staring at it from about 3 feet away and not a peep out of him. Its hard enough to ref but getting no assistance from the morons behind the goal doesnt help either

Tusky

Seaneh wrote: »

How is reffing of such a **** standard still possible in this day and age?

It's not. These are the best refs around. The problem is that no human without the aid of instant slow-mo replays will ever get everything right. People complain about the refereeing of every single tournament, as well as in all of the domestic leagues. This tells me that it's not the referees that are the problem, as they are the best that exist, but the way in which the game is set up. We will just have to accept human error as part of the game until technology is used to help referees make decisions.

And for what it's worth, I think the refereeing of this tournament has been excellent thus far, on the whole.

theoneeyedman

bookie basher wrote: »

exactly they have got some calls wrong but alot more right, its just not possible for a ref to get every decision right in 90 minutes

Correct imo.
I think a refreshing feature has been the reluctance yo give soft pens. Didnt see the one you refer to bit ive seen a few English based players throw themselves to the ground ( nasri gerrard young v Persie ) to be told get up to fcuk! Hope English refs have the same testicular fortitute next season

stealinhorses

CSF wrote: »

Because, in the end, they are only human.

There are small mistakes, ones that you can explain with "they are only human". This includes marginal offsides, not seeing that a defender got a touch before the ball went out of play and it should have been a corner, etc.

It's things like in the Sweden - England match yesterday. The ref behind the English goal was looking straight at the ball and saw that it fully went out. There's no way he didn't, he was a metre away from it, staring at the ball. He didn't call it. Why not?

theoneeyedman

wonga77 wrote: »

I dont ever remember either of the guys behind the goal making a decision
In one of the games yesterday(French I think) the ball went clearly over the end line and should have been a corner, slo mo replay showed the extra ref staring at it from about 3 feet away and not a peep out of him. Its hard enough to ref but getting no assistance from the morons behind the goal doesnt help either

Wrong....on the replays you could see him call the ref on the mics and award the corner

Mr Alan

wonga77 wrote: »

I dont ever remember either of the guys behind the goal making a decision
In one of the games yesterday(French I think) the ball went clearly over the end line and should have been a corner, slo mo replay showed the extra ref staring at it from about 3 feet away and not a peep out of him. Its hard enough to ref but getting no assistance from the morons behind the goal doesnt help either

They're not allowed "make decisions", just inform the ref what they saw. The incident you're referring to (England v Sweden iirc), the commentators were waxing lyrical about how they do nothing, look how close he was etc etc, what they failed to notice or chose to ignore was that after consultation with the official behind the goal, the ref gave the corner.

d22ontour

Waving play on when prima donnas roll around with nothing wrong with them is the best thing i have seen refs do in years, they are having a good tournament so far, and as was said above is one of the best tournaments football wise in a long time.

CSF

stealinhorses wrote: »

There are small mistakes, ones that you can explain with "they are only human". This includes marginal offsides, not seeing that a defender got a touch before the ball went out of play and it should have been a corner, etc.

It's things like in the Sweden - England match yesterday. The ref behind the English goal was looking straight at the ball and saw that it fully went out. There's no way he didn't, he was a metre away from it, staring at the ball. He didn't call it. Why not?

I never said that every single thing referees do make sense.

sonnky

Inconsistency is the big problem. Karagounas booked for diving- gets him ruled out of next game.. Zhirkov at the other end goes down, ref tells him to get up. He should also have got a yellow, but he would have been sent off so the ref shyed away from giving another yellow.

ArmaniJeanss

People (inc the TV 'experts') are confused I think that the officials behind the goal don't make hand signals, wave a flag or blow a whistle.

They talk into a connected microphone one to one with the ref.

G.K.

The commentators give out a lot about the GL refs not doing anything. They do, they just do it all over earpiece. That ignorance really bugs me.

EDIT: Ah, beaten to it.

Orando Broom

G.K. wrote: »

The commentators give out a lot about the GL refs not doing anything. They do, they just do it all over earpiece. That ignorance really bugs me.

EDIT: Ah, beaten to it.

Robbie Keane's penalty shout. Can the goal line boys alert the ref? They can, can't they? Blind c***s.

missingtime

I've thought the refereeing has been pretty good. Apart for a few terrible offside calls which I think were all in the one game.

wonga77

Diving can be hard to spot though, look at the Greek player near the end rolling around and had to be stretchered off. He hopped off the stretcher too fast and realised that he had to throw on a bit of a limp for the cameras, deserved to be booked for it

G.K.

Perhaps they did and were overruled.

Samich

Stonewall??? Imo it wasn't stonewall, can understand why the ref yellowed him. He could have stayed on his feet and imo looked for the peno

And can karagounis not appeal?

Seaneh

My problem is that they are getting some pretty big calls wrong.
I don't expect them to be perfect, but so many major decisions were fudged it's annoying.

Charisteas

The poor referring is one thing, but if Karagounis can't appeal against his yellow card, that's a damn right disgrace and the rules need to be changed instantly.

On a sad note is that he equaled the Greek cap record tonight with 120 and will miss the next game. I just hope that if Greece lose that game, he doesn't retire (he is 35 years old) and hopefully he will still get to break the record. Though I doubt he will retire yet with a meaningless friendly against Norway in August.

Reganio 2

Has Uefa answered why the 5th officials are standing on the same side as the linesman. Surely it would make sense to put them on the other side of the goal that way they all see more?

ArmaniJeanss

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Has Uefa answered why the 5th officials are standing on the same side as the linesman. Surely it would make sense to put them on the other side of the goal that way they all see more?

Yep they have.
The referee has always ran the diagonal between the two flags where there is no linesman, so putting the 5th officials on that side was considered less effective.

I'd agree theres a case for the other way though.

steelcityblues

Time to update this: Croatia, Denmark, Greece and Ukraine all got screwed over on decisions in their final group matches.

You have to wonder with all of the above being 'smaller' nations, how much of is this coincidence? No Irish fan can pretend that this hasn't happened to them, either, following Henry and France.

A shame to be discussing this, because the football itself has been great.

kitakyushu

steelcityblues wrote: »

Time to update this: Croatia, Denmark, Greece and Ukraine all got screwed over on decisions in their final group matches.

Where did Ukraine get screwed?

steelcityblues

kitakyushu wrote: »

Where did Ukraine get screwed?

The 'goal'.

Tox56

steelcityblues wrote: »

Time to update this: Croatia, Denmark, Greece and Ukraine all got screwed over on decisions in their final group matches.

You have to wonder with all of the above being 'smaller' nations, how much of is this coincidence? No Irish fan can pretend that this hasn't happened to them, either, following Henry and France.

A shame to be discussing this, because the football itself has been great.

What was the failure to call the offside leading up to the Ukraine "goal" caused by? Some referee conspiracy? Or just a human making a mistake on a split second call?

steelcityblues

Tox56 wrote: »

What was the failure to call the offside leading up to the Ukraine "goal" caused by? Some referee conspiracy? Or just a human making a mistake on a split second call?

The forward prevented himself from being offside just before the pass. With officials behind the goal, it should be almost impossible to get it wrong. Even myself, and other friends, first reaction was that it was over, and we were only looking at a TV screen.

Time to stop thinking that UEFA would not twist things if it suited them - we went through it with the Henry incident. International football is high stakes stuff.

kitakyushu

steelcityblues wrote: »

The 'goal'.

Ah. Well in that case the player with the assist (Milevskiy iirc?) was offside leading up to the 'goal' so Ukraine really have little to complain about.

It was a case of two wrongs making a right I suppose. Maybe if the officials stick to making an even number of errors per game then everything will work out as it should have.

steelcityblues

kitakyushu wrote: »

Ah. Well in that case the player with the assist (Milevskiy iirc?) was offside leading up to the 'goal'.

It was a case of two wrongs making a right I suppose. Maybe if the officials stick to making an even number of errors per game then everything will work out as it should have.

I would like for England to go all the way, but hearing from the pundits how it was 'payback' for Lampard made no sense. They did not play against Ukraine in the last World Cup, as far as I can recall. :rolleyes:

kitakyushu

steelcityblues wrote: »

I would like for England to go all the way, but hearing from the pundits how it was 'payback' for Lampard made no sense. They did not play against Ukraine in the last World Cup, as far as I can recall. :rolleyes:

Plus considering England won their only major trophy to date thanks to an incorrect goal-line call I think they've forfeited the right to payback talk against anyone in this regard.

Tox56

steelcityblues wrote: »

I would like for England to go all the way, but hearing from the pundits how it was 'payback' for Lampard made no sense. They did not play against Ukraine in the last World Cup, as far as I can recall. :rolleyes:

Imagine hypothetically if Ireland were playing Italy with a chance to qualify for the Quarter-Finals, and Ireland scored the winner with a handball that wasn't picked up by the officials, everyone would be comparing it to the Henry incident, of course they would.

kitakyushu

Tox56 wrote: »

Imagine hypothetically if Ireland were playing Italy with a chance to qualify for the Quarter-Finals, and Ireland scored the winner with a handball that wasn't picked up by the officials, everyone would be comparing it to the Henry incident, of course they would.

I think his point is : yeah they could defo compare the incidents, but that it wouldn't be "payback" considering we hadn't done it to France. All we would have achieved would have been to cheat Italy in a similar manner to how France cheated us.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Swings and roundabouts.
You win some, you lose some.
Things really do have a habit of levelling themselves out over the course of....

All cliches, but all true.

Bar a couple of bad (quite big) calls, I think the general standard of refereeing has actually been quite good.

But I think its time to give a bit of assistance with these big decisions.
There is far too much resting on it these days not to.

frisbeeface

I think the referees have been pretty good this tournament. They seem to be awarding less soft frees and letting the game flow more. They must have been told by UEFA to give the benefit of the doubt to the defender. I like it so far.

Obviously they've still got decisions wrong, which is unfortunate but inevitable. I really hate when managers and pundits blame referees for making an error and ignore the many errors their players made which also resulted in the loss. It's human error all round! Good example from the Ukraine game last night, the Ukraine keeper just as responsible for the defeat at the officials.

kitakyushu

First game = 2 reds, 1 pen.

Next 23 games = 1 red, 0 pens.

I reckon there was some kind of reaction to that terrible ref in the opening game and the rest of them have been told to tone it down a bit and let common sense prevail. Overall I think it's helped the games as a spectacle in themselves.

Idbatterim

How about a system, where a team could make possibly 1 or a max of 2 appeals per match (to go to video judge), only for major decisions though, i.e. a penalty, sending off or goal appeal (i.e. from opposing player being off side or ball being over the line).

KerranJast

That would be both smart and entertaining hence it won't be introduced.

Anyway such a system would've had the same outcome last night. Milevskiy was well offside in the English half when the ball was played out from the Ukrainian half so the goal wouldn't have stood.

Benimar

KerranJast wrote: »

That would be both smart and entertaining hence it won't be introduced.

Anyway such a system would've had the same outcome last night. Milevskiy was well offside in the English half when the ball was played out from the Ukrainian half so the goal wouldn't have stood.

It would have been very interesting to hear the reaction today if goal line technology was in place last night. Had it been, then the goal would have had to have been given as it (obviously) wouldn't pick up the offside.

I think last night supports the argument for a 'challenge' system based on replay more than only goal line technology in isolation.

Goal line technology only would have given the incorrect outcome last night, a 'challenge' system would have got it right.

homerjay2005

i was at 5 games while i was over there and i have to say, the standard of reffing has been appalling.the clown in charge of the Ireland V Italy game should never be left near a football pitch again.

some of them are so much out of their depth it is unbelievable.

klose

Watching the Greece Russia game now on eurosport and must say the ref giving the yellow to the Greek captain was a disgraceful decision, maybe the worst of the tournament. There really needs to be an option to appeal yellow cards, massive blow to em ahead of tonights game.

Kolido

I think the only fair way is to have replays. For example if goal-line tech had of given Ukraine the goal against England, it wouldn't have picked up the off-side.
But then you got to wonder how replays would work for dicissions like red cards and such. Who exactly would be judging these dicissions. You often see pundits having different opinions on these in studios after the games. I think it would help obviously but there would be still some arguements on the judgements

darragh16

Kolido wrote: »

I think the only fair way is to have replays. For example if goal-line tech had of given Ukraine the goal against England, it wouldn't have picked up the off-side.
But then you got to wonder how replays would work for dicissions like red cards and such. Who exactly would be judging these dicissions. You often see pundits having different opinions on these in studios after the games. I think it would help obviously but there would be still some arguements on the judgements

Replays would slow the game down entirely though. And then you'd have to ask what becomes replayable and which doesn't. The thing with offside decisions and fouls etc. they are just part of the game and they happen.

Orando Broom

Coaches challange. Two per coach per half. Let the coach and team decide what needs to be looked at. Put the responsibility back on them. Then there might be less pressure put on officials by managers.

you could only use it in situations such as contentious penalty decisions, dives eliciting frees and cards and goals.

Obviously couldn't work for offside or where play is transitioning.