Would Roy Keane be a good Ireland manager

the realpigiron

kryogen wrote: »

Ok, now I'm sure your taking the piss

Are you one of that crowd that "creams" yourselves over Benitez:pac:

kryogen

the realpigiron wrote: »

Are you one of that crowd that "creams" yourselves over Benitez:pac:

Obviously not.

Dempsey

kryogen wrote: »

Trap has not been a high class manager for quite some time, he was very successful over his career alright, but you would hardly have heard his name in the running for top jobs the last few years would you? He was interested because of the money, dont think he was going to get that salary matched anywhere else do you?

Trap was managing a successful Salzburg side when we poached him. Stuttgart, Benfica, Italy before that. Define a top job if he wasnt in one.

kryogen

Dempsey wrote: »

Trap was managing a successful Salzburg side when we poached him. Stuttgart, Benfica, Italy before that. Define a top job if he wasnt in one.

A top job

One of the biggest teams in one of the biggest leagues.

So tbh, Salzburg Stuttgart and Benfica don't really cut it.

The Italian job would be impressive but for it being 12 years ago that he was appointed and the fact that he is one of the most successful coaches, if not the most successful to come out of Italy. There are also his results with the Italian team, took over when Dino Zoff resigned, WC 2002 beat Ecuador, lost to Croatia and drew with Mexico, lost in 2nd round to South Korea

2004 euros, drew with Sweden, drew with Denmark, went home int he group stages.

Do you actually seriously consider Salzburg to a top job?

And actually, was Trap not the director of football at Salzburg? Pretty sure he was

got this off wiki

In May 2006, Red Bull Salzburg announced it had signed Trapattoni as its new director of football, along with one of his former players, Lothar Matthäus, as coach. Trapattoni initially cast doubt on this report, claiming he had not signed any contract. But three days later, both he and Matthäus signed and made their hirings official. After their successful season of 2006–07, the club's board of directors unanimously decided to dismiss Matthäus, making Thorsten Fink Trapattoni's new assistant.

Dempsey

Fact is, Trap was always in work, never left long without one. You were never going to be reading many stories about him linked with jobs in Britain. Do you read much italian press? I think the Red Bull Salzburg project was an ambitious one and he was succeeding in that, not man utd but they are ambitious and looking to become more than what they currently are.

I'd like to know when you considered the Man City job a "top job"

Jesus Wept

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Get David O Leary and I'll be happy .

Only if he promises not to say 'babies'.

kryogen

Dempsey wrote: »

Fact is, Trap was always in work, never left long without one. You were never going to be reading many stories about him linked with jobs in Britain. Do you read much italian press? I think the Red Bull Salzburg project was an ambitious one and he was succeeding in that, not man utd but they are ambitious and looking to become more than what they currently are.

I'd like to know when you considered the Man City job a "top job"

No problem, I considered the City job a top job when they had the financial clout to compete with the best teams in one of the biggest leagues in the world and were signing some of the better players in the world too. When they showed that they were going to be realistic title challengers

When did you consider the City job a top job?

I never said he had to linked to top jobs in Britain, you simply don't have a plausible argument to make here man. Let it go.

Funnily in watching the golf, I actually forgot to point out how poor he was at Stuttgart also didnt I, since you put it up there as a top job, he lasted 20 games and came under criticism from his players and media due to his "fear of attacking" and was sacked after 7 months

the realpigiron

kryogen wrote: »

No problem, I considered the City job a top job when they had the financial clout to compete with the best teams in one of the biggest leagues in the world and were signing some of the better players in the world too. When they showed that they were going to be realistic title challengers

When did you consider the City job a top job?

I never said he had to linked to top jobs in Britain, you simply don't have a plausible argument to make here man. Let it go.

Funnily in watching the golf, I actually forgot to point out how poor he was at Stuttgart also didnt I, since you put it up there as a top job, he lasted 20 games and came under criticism from his players and media due to his "fear of attacking" and was sacked after 7 months

Your argument that Benitez is a "high class" manager and in a different bracket to Trapatoni simply doesn't stand up. If Benitez was such a "high class" manager as you put it, how come he has been sacked from his last two posts?

kryogen

the realpigiron wrote: »

Your argument that Benitez is a "high class" manager and in a different bracket to Trapatoni simply doesn't stand up. If Benitez was such a "high class" manager as you put it, how come he has been sacked from his last two posts?

Seriously?

Buddy, I don't mean to be rude but I just can't be arsed.

If you can't figure it out yourself thats cool, I won't lose sleep.

the realpigiron

kryogen wrote: »

Seriously?

Buddy, I don't mean to be rude but I just can't be arsed.

If you can't figure it out yourself thats cool, I won't lose sleep.

Seriously what? He has been sacked from his last two jobs yes, so what's so great about him lately? Your argument doesn't stand up buddy.

Dempsey

kryogen wrote: »

No problem, I considered the City job a top job when they had the financial clout to compete with the best teams in one of the biggest leagues in the world and were signing some of the better players in the world too. When they showed that they were going to be realistic title challengers

When did you consider the City job a top job?

I never said he had to linked to top jobs in Britain, you simply don't have a plausible argument to make here man. Let it go.

Funnily in watching the golf, I actually forgot to point out how poor he was at Stuttgart also didnt I, since you put it up there as a top job, he lasted 20 games and came under criticism from his players and media due to his "fear of attacking" and was sacked after 7 months

Shinawatra had the financial clout to make it a top job over time but I doubt you considered it a top job until the Abu Dhabi Group came in and Mancini challenged for silverware. The failure of managers doesnt reduce the profile of the job and the targets they are asked to hit.

I never said he was a success at Stuttgart but they are a massive club with high ambitions. Its a top job whether you like to admit it or not.

Mr Simpson

No, Keane's history should be enough to say he shouldn't get the job.

kryogen

Dempsey wrote: »

Shinawatra had the financial clout to make it a top job over time but I doubt you considered it a top job until the Abu Dhabi Group came in and Mancini challenged for silverware. The failure of managers doesnt reduce the profile of the job and the targets they are asked to hit.

I never said he was a success at Stuttgart but they are a massive club with high ambitions. Its a top job whether you like to admit it or not.

Ok, I will give you that Stuttgart is in the upper half of the table, but it is not a top job for me, to put it in the same catagory as Munich, Madrid etc would be wrong to me and besides, it doesnt really help your case that the last "top job" in your opinion that he had was a spectacular failure does it?

How could the City job be considered a top job before they proved themselves worthy of it?

What exactly defines a top job for you? Is Anzhi a top job now? All of the mega rich clubs in the middle east? Do you consider PSG to be automatically a top job now becasue they have money?

Dempsey

kryogen wrote: »

Ok, I will give you that Stuttgart is in the upper half of the table, but it is not a top job for me, to put it in the same catagory as Munich, Madrid etc would be wrong to me and besides, it doesnt really help your case that the last "top job" in your opinion that he had was a spectacular failure does it?

How could the City job be considered a top job before they proved themselves worthy of it?

What exactly defines a top job for you? Is Anzhi a top job now? All of the mega rich clubs in the middle east? Do you consider PSG to be automatically a top job now becasue they have money?

Ancelotti has been given the job of hitting the targets that in your eyes only a "top club" has. It cant be a top job until he follows through on the owners expectations?

kryogen

Dempsey wrote: »

Ancelotti has been given the job of hitting the targets that in your eyes only a "top club" has. It cant be a top job until he follows through on the owners expectations?

Why do you dodge questions?

Dempsey

kryogen wrote: »

Why do you dodge questions?

Answer the question

the realpigiron

kryogen wrote: »

Why do you dodge questions?

Look who's talking

kryogen

Dempsey wrote: »

Answer the question

Seriously, I have answered your questions, regardless of how odd they are, plenty of times, so either answer some yourself that have been put to you or, well that will be the end of yet another boring "debate"

kryogen

the realpigiron wrote: »

Look who's talking

My friend has a puppy just like you, always jumping around me, begging for just an ounce of my attention, and sometimes I'm nice and give him a little pat, but ther times I kinda think he is just being pathetic.

Dempsey

kryogen wrote: »

Seriously, I have answered your questions, regardless of how odd they are, plenty of times, so either answer some yourself that have been put to you or, well that will be the end of yet another boring "debate"

Why wont you answer the question, re. Ancelotti & PSG?

the realpigiron

kryogen wrote: »

My friend has a puppy just like you, always jumping around me, begging for just an ounce of my attention, and sometimes I'm nice and give him a little pat, but ther times I kinda think he is just being pathetic.

You made a silly statement a few pages back, but instead of admitting your mistake - a bit like that puppy you mention - you keep digging a hole for yourself. Resorting to immature insults is a sure sign that your argument has run aground.

grenache

Roy Keane definitely has the potential to be a top class manager. But he will never come close to realising it unless he irons out a few issues.

These are namely, recognising that most players today have neither the drive or talent that he had as a player and to allow for this. Secondly, he would need a damn good assistant manager, someone who would have the ability to rein him in, and to use the softly softly approach when an ear bashing from Keane might not be what is called for - a case of good cop, bad cop, a Peter Taylor to complement Keane's Brian Clough.

Thirdly, although i agree with him on many things, most certainly the current debate about celebrating & commending poor performances, the man clearly needs to exercise some demons and let some of the burning issues from the past go. Not until he does this can he really be ready to manage again.

ColeTrain

Lumbo wrote: »

Helix to thread.

My pick would be David O'Leary. I don't know why he never picked up another decent job after Villa.

If we were going down the route of bringing younger players through then O'Leary wouldn't be that bad a choice.

WallyGUFC

Trap's record doesn't matter a sh*te. He's 73 years old, this is probably the last job of his career. Of course the main attraction were the extortionate wages. To be honest, a manager like him was exactly what we needed after the atrocities that happened during Staunton's reign, he made them solid and disciplined. But the football is awful, truly awful, and we've been ripped apart by some pretty mediocre teams, like Slovakia and Armenia at home. He's too stubborn. He won't change. We need a new manager.

Don't think Keane would be the next manager but he will definitely manage Ireland at some stage. He's only a young manager, has only had a few jobs. He'll keep learning. He's a natural born winner though, something he would hopefully instill in the players. Also, I'm sure he'd change formation and personnel from time to time. Don't know who the next manager will be, can see Trap staying on for WC qualifiers but wish he wouldn't. He's taken us as far as he can.

Spread

Keane would be a great manager if only he could stop reading/retaliating to the media. First of all, he'd pick a right captain .......... one that has gravitas and not a wannabe karaoke singer and Posh/Becks type celeb. He'd instill passion and any guy that did not give 100% for the 90 mins would be out. He has made his mistakes and has learned from them. He sadly lacks tact ......... but sometimes the direct route is the one to take. The last few cowboys that got the hot seat were a joke .......... and the guys that put them there should take the blame. I mean, the buck has got to stop somewhere.

LuckyLloyd

Rhys Essien wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Keane has done okay at club level overall relatively speaking. When Trapp goes there is going to be a huge step down when it comes to the credentials and talent of managers realistically available.

Barring unlikely superior candidates becoming available I'd be happy for him to get a shot.

Shur Jack Charlton and Mick McCarthy have better records with Ireland than Trap.

Look back at Traps record managing Italy.Awful.

I know, awful eh? There is absolutely no difference between the players Trapp has compared to the players they had huh? And losing to South Korea in a perfectly officiated game was clearly his fault too.

LuckyLloyd

Corholio wrote: »

Trap's best managing days are long gone. Dont know why people are hanging off all the things he's won. He's won 2 trophies in 15 years, and only 1 in a half decent league (Portugal)

So that's more than McCarthy, Kerr and Keane combined so?

TimeToShine

I don't think a lot of people are giving Trap enough credit for actually getting us to the Euros in the first place. He brought rigid discipline at a time when we were in disarray, it's only now that we've been hammered by vastly superior teams we're starting to get fed up with him. It's not his fault, and I'm confident that 4 in 5 of the other managers available to us would have failed to get us to qualify.

LuckyLloyd

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Keane, just no.

McCarthy no as well, his time has passed and tactically he could never take us forward.

Kerr I wouldn't dismiss completely, but think there are better options.

Better options? Who? Be realistic and specific now.

Bodhisopha

TimeToShine wrote: »

I don't think a lot of people are giving Trap enough credit for actually getting us to the Euros in the first place. He brought rigid discipline at a time when we were in disarray, it's only now that we've been hammered by vastly superior teams we're starting to get fed up with him. It's not his fault, and I'm confident that 4 in 5 of the other managers available to us would have failed to get us to qualify.

Not really, there were many dissenting voices long before that. I certainly didn't want his contract renewed.

LuckyLloyd

By the way, Trapp is going nowhere for now. This conversation becomes relevant in Autumn 2013 / Summer 2014...

gosplan

In fairness, if Roy didn't make a good Ipswich manager, I can't see him making a good ireland manager.

As regards Trap, he's steadied the ship really well after Staunton. He got us to a playoff and a major tournament but a combination of negative tactics and the players not really turning up have left us far adrift of the rest of the teams in the tournament.

I'm all for the old guy seeing out the next two years. Hopefully, he'll bring through loads of players and get them well organised and professional about playing for the country. That would be a huge boost to whatever manager comes next.

StephenHendry

i'd like to see keano manage us one day, but for the moment i wouldnt mind seeing mick mcarthy back with us or brian kerr

Sergio

StephenHendry wrote: »

i'd like to see keano manage us one day, but for the moment i wouldnt mind seeing mick mcarthy back with us or brian kerr

Brian Kerr???? your joking right. I wouldnt have that man manage a school boys team never mind the senior team again!

bullvine

kryogen wrote: »

He would certainly generate interest alright, whether you love him or hate him, you would have plenty of people wanting him to succeed and just as many if not more eagerly watching with anticipation for if and when he fails.

Im sure it would make sense to the FAI from a financial sense in fact. Still dont see it as a realistic one just yet though.

Thanks!

Stranger things have happened, think of Keane working for Quinn, no one would have thought that!

Mitch Connor

I think Keane would be a good manager for ireland.

I don't think you need a great manager at international level, just someone to motivate and instill belief in his team. I don't think Trap does either. I think the attitude of the irish team would be better with Keane in charge.

Mitch Connor

Sergio wrote: »

Brian Kerr???? your joking right. I wouldnt have that man manage a school boys team never mind the senior team again!

You wouldn't want the man that manager ireland to 3rd in the World Youths and won both the U16 and U18 Euro Championships, to manage a school boy team.

Are you actually insane?

bullpost

Was reading Lee Carsley in the papers recently.

He talks some good sense and seems to have his ear to the ground in terms of recent developments in the areas of coaching and tactical approaches.
Might make a good manager for us in the future.

Mitch Connor

kryogen wrote: »

My friend has a puppy just like you, always jumping around me, begging for just an ounce of my attention, and sometimes I'm nice and give him a little pat, but ther times I kinda think he is just being pathetic.

sounds like you are being rather mean spirited to the puppy, its just a puppy after all. Thinking it is pathetic? Well harsh.

Orando Broom

Mitch Connor wrote: »

sounds like you are being rather mean spirited to the puppy, its just a puppy after all. Thinking it is pathetic? Well harsh.

Ha! I thought the same myself. I hope he hasn't kids! Jaysus! :eek::eek:

v3ttel

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Anybody welcome back Mick?

Yes, but would he really want to put his backside in the bacon slicer again?

kryogen

I'd love if Kerr was given a second shot next

No

HalloweenJack

No chequebook for him so might be a bit tough to work with the pool of players at his disposal.

I wouldn't object to him as manager. I know his track record hasn't been great but, in fairness to him, his experience is still far more impressive than Staunton's was before and after his time with us.

I doubt he'd be a divisive figure. If anything, I think he'd be the opposite. I imagine he demands a lot from his players which would be good to see and a lot would probably want to impress him following his criticism.

I can't remember exactly but, iirc, his "style" of football at Sunderland and Ipswich wasn't overly boring or ugly so that would shut up those complaining about Trap's approach. I imagine he'd get a lot more public support simply because he is Roy Keane, one of the best Irish players ever and definitely the best of his generation.

I don't think it'd be a bad appointment and it could work out, though I'd rather see McCarthy or Kerr given another go.

Father Damo

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Id be happy with a return for Brian Kerr.I think he was shafted big time.I think Traps days have reached their end though.

His team selection for Italy is the last straw IMO.Same Ol,Same Ol.Things will never change fast enough with him.

It will be interesting if Italy beat us by 3 or 4 again.

Shafted how?

He failed to qualify with a better squad than we currently have. Conceding leads is my main memory of the Kerr years- often against inferior teams. With all due respect to Kerrs underage record, he did quite simply fail to get the lads to pull it out in the big games. That night a shockingly average Swiss side held us 0-0 in Dublin was the writing on the wall, we should have took that one and, although my opinion on him has waned over the last week, under Trap, we would have wiped them.

He got sacked for not qualifying. Yes, we were promised a world class management team, and be it for lack of interest from anyone decent or a lack of money to approach them, we didnt get that, but by no means was Kerr shafted. If I got the sack tomorrow from work for being too pissed to come in too regularly (nearly there :pac: ) and they replaced me with some other Irish lad who lasted 3 weeks and got the boot for the exact same reason, I wouldnt exactly say I got shafted. Kerr got the boot because the FAI promised a better model to come- if anyone got shafted it was the fans, not Kerr.


As for Keane, much like Capello his skill at one on one man management are atrocious. It would be an unmitigated disaster. One bad reuslt and he would alienate pretty much everyone around him. In the unlikely event we reached a tournament under him (though mind you with 24 teams even Stan would manage it) the chances of a fall out with a top player are too great.

What people must recall is that he has never actually been proven as a manager. People hark on about Sunderland going from the bottom to Championship winners as if it was a mid season miracle- FFS lads it was August, 4 matches in. He was given an obscene amount of money to spend, and through his years blew a great chunk of it on donkeys.

kincsem

Roy Keane. No. Disruptive, confrontational, maverick.
I'll use an often overused acronym PMSL

Sergio

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You wouldn't want the man that manager ireland to 3rd in the World Youths and won both the U16 and U18 Euro Championships, to manage a school boy team.

Are you actually insane?

I had a personal run in with him many years ago when he was managing the under age teams and lets just say i saw a aside to Mr Kerr that nobody would want to see!

kryogen

Sergio wrote: »

I had a personal run in with him many years ago when he was managing the under age teams and lets just say i saw a aside to Mr Kerr that nobody would want to see!

If you are referring to kiddie fiddling you should have reported it.

JP Liz V1

I doubt any of the current team would play under him but someday I would like to see him manage the national team

Nuri Sahin

No.