Diesel hauled 'Mystery Train' Sat 23rd June

Chrisplayfair

That'll give the Fishwives somethin to moan about now...

cmore123

May I step up to the plate and criticise not only whatever brainless moron graffitie'd 186, but also just about everything on the railway that doesn't move.

Regarding photographers, Judgement day mentioned all the H & S stuff that's about nowadays - true, but for all of our protection and must be obeyed irrespective of our opinions.

And as for criticising - in any way - those who work to maintain the stuff the RPSI has, these are volunteers, and few in number. Nobody who is not a member has any right to criticse what they do or don't do. In preservation, people either roll their sleevs up and dedicate their weekends to restoring and maintaining things, or they don't. Those who do, have a say. Those who don't, either join the RPSI (or whatever organisation) or shut up.

Downpatrick is a separate organisation. Losty above posts that you can drive there etc, but maybe doen't make it clear that it has to be subject to training etc, as they (as you might expect) have their own safety case and operating licence like RPSI or NIR or IE - but al are welcome to train to do these things.

lord lucan

Karsini wrote: »

Maybe we should take on another mod? Victor can't be here all the time.

Whilst not wanting to talk about Mod issues,that's only half the solution. If people can't be civil and have a constructive chat/debate online then there's no hope. Many other forums on Boards,much busier than here,have very few issues but Trains seem to bring out the worst in posters.

lord lucan

lord lucan wrote: »

Many other forums on Boards,much busier than here,have very few issues but Trains seem to bring out the worst in posters.

Unfortunately so and I don't understand why either. Then again I know very few enthusiasts in real life so maybe I'm missing something?

flyingsnail

Karsini wrote: »

Unfortunately so and I don't understand why either. Then again I know very few enthusiasts in real life so maybe I'm missing something?

Outside of this thread we all seem to have been getting along quite well recently

foggy_lad

starhillroad wrote: »

A cameraman with obvious experience of railway safety standards on a signal pole ladder is a lot less to worry about than a vandalising skanger in fairness. fool and a menace to any railway operation

The only problem is that the cameraman should be seen to lead by example, but in this aim to be 'holier than thou', what was once safe and accepted is now not tolerated. Granted its a more litigious culture, but what happened to common sense. such camera weilding enthusiasts are allowed free access and free reign in stations and beyond obviously because of their "connections" with whom it can be assumed they share a portion of the profits they make from their photographs.

Its hardly as if there were scores of railway enthusiasts suing the backside off CIE, British Rail and its descendant companies before, and its not happening now. It gives the impression that it is ok to trespass on the railway as long as you are doing something interesting like taking pictures or making videos or laying pennys on the track etc

Some leeway should be given, although I can't blame Irish Rail staff for being paranoid from time to time, after all its their necks on the line, not the likes of Chairman Lynch in his Ivory Tower in Heuston.

No leeway should be given! No person should be allowed enter any railway property or other state property weilding any form of camera without being challenged and told photography is forbidden without prior written authorisation and proper prior notice to all intending passengers that there will be people taking pictures on the premises

kingshankly

Trespassing aside nobody is allowed on or near the line with the exceptions of platforms unless the have appropriate safety shoes and hi vis vest pluse a certificate in personal track safety

starhillroad

foggy_lad wrote:

No leeway should be given! No person should be allowed enter any railway property or other state property weilding any form of camera without being challenged and told photography is forbidden without prior written authorisation and proper prior notice to all intending passengers that there will be people taking pictures on the premises

I'll be as polite as I possibly can in response to this.

This is not Eastern Europe pre 1989.

This is Ireland. We bend rules, we don't break them. There is an inherent intolerance of zero tolerance.

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

No leeway should be given! No person should be allowed enter any railway property or other state property weilding any form of camera without being challenged and told photography is forbidden without prior written authorisation and proper prior notice to all intending passengers that there will be people taking pictures on the premises

grow up. public place, you can take photos all you want once complying with access restriction (ie on train / platform etc is fine) and there's nothing the likes of you and your moan can do about it.

Niles

Father Jack Hackett wrote: »

Same when you see people wandering all over railway lines in the picture that was posted a few minutes ago there hi

ANY COMMENTS FOLKS???? (****)

It's ironic - the photographer must have been standing on the PW in order to take it.

Hungerford

Rud wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with this.Clearly there is going to be continuous verbal abuse back and forth between people on this board that know each other or know of each other and choose this site as a springboard for attacks and retaliation attacks.

I agree too. We had three mods in the not so recent past so it's probably worth increasing to that level again. Some of the more sane members might be interested - I wouldn't mind doing my bit so long as I could ban Father Jack.

Judgement Day

We should be careful what we wish for - there's a certain other mod who takes an inordinate amount of pleasure in highlighting the folly of having a railway network and if he is moved here....Personally, I can't understand why some posters on this thread haven't been site banned.

Bonus_Pack

TLDR: Some people need to cop on or the hobby is finished.

Sorry for the long post but I think that if the railway hobby is to maintain itself any way decent that people must be much more responsible. Come on, I mean the “well known and respected photographer” has been caught red handed leaping out of a signal post on that video of 086. Doing it is one thing but then underhanded tactics of taking down the pictures and pretending it didn’t happen while making swipes at others really undermines the railway enthusiast community as a whole and is a hugely off putting to new members.
The individual in question has been caught out spectacularly in this case and if they are to maintain any sort of credibility within the enthusiast community, they need to come clean about it. Here on this forum or else over on IRN.
I have been witness to some numpties too, who’s actions have damaged opportunities for the hobby. for example at the last IRRS Inchicore open day, some more established and respected members, (you know who you are yourselves, that’s all I’ll say), ran amock and strayed from the tour (even when warned against doing so at the tour’s outset) to clamber into sheds and wander off up behind where the 201s were stored to see the C.na.M. sets being broken up . THAT is the stuff that spoils it for everyone else. Now Inch is practically banning future visits from groups. Thanks.
One thing in particular that I have noticed, is that it is usually the more established an senior members (who ought to lead by example) who engage in such activity – new or younger members seem to have better idea of what is and is not acceptable behavior on a modern railway.
I recall a similar episode on the IRRS tour of the Middleton branch where a number of members practically forced their way into the signal cabin/ticket office at Carrigtohill (to the amazement of myself and the signalman). One was quite rude and proceeded to basically interrogate the signal man on various things while he was busy doing his job. That was a potential accident waiting to happen.
So there are those out there who, out of arrogance or ignorance, choose to disregard, rules H&S and common courtesy to get what they want regardless of the effects it may cause to others down the line. Thankfully those are in the minority and the community on the whole are great people.

The IRN website is as good as closed down at this stage due to the amount of back biting and cheap shots being flung around. People have been logging on under the guise various ficticious pseudonyms taking swipes from the sidelines and trying to spread shít and stirr up commotion about certain other members and organisations in a bid to cause damage to reputations. Why I don't know, perhaps it's begrugery, jealousy or a personal grudge but in the end it would only damage the whole community as a whole aswell as themselves since they are invariably caught out and identified one way or another - the signal post incident on this thread being a perfect example of this ludicrous carry on (Anyone who follows my posts on here and on IRN, will see that I have had some beef with what is going on there and at some well known heritage sites.) I know people will be giving out about hurlers on the ditch and all but I think enthusiast group managerment should be putting in place and enforceing rules about what is or is not on.
Unless common sense and manners are demanded by the organisations (and accountability for those running Heritage Railways) the system will degenerate rapidly into a siuation like in Britain where enthusiasts are viewed with suspicion by the authorities and often photography is banned. End up being treated like terrorists.

Cookie_Monster

Anyone who follows my posts on here

what, since you joined 2 days ago? Don't get ahead of yourself and don't be all preachy to long established posters, it does not come across well.

End up being treated like terrorists.

The exact opposite is the case and the UK Police are welcoming and have stated such in the past.

And sure while your at it, you might want to post here:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578

Bonus_Pack

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what, since you joined 2 days ago? Don't get ahead of yourself and don't be all preachy to long established posters, it does not come across well.

I'm not intending to be preachy, I'm just giving my opinion. I do not intend to offend anyone. But in fairness, I've been involved in the rail scene for a few years now and I am also an IRN member so I think I am entitled to an opinion based on this regardless of my Boards.ie post count. (moved here now cos IRN is practically abandoned). I don't think a low post count should disqualify me from stating an opinion in fainess.

The exact opposite is the case and the UK Police are welcoming and have stated such in the past.

Well thats good. I read something about that, saying that enthusiasts would recognise suspicious behaviour and report it to NR/Police. So now they are valued as caretakers/security of sorts. I apologize and I am now retracting that part of my post.

And sure while your at it, you might want to post here:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578

I don't know what you're trying to insinuate by suggesting that I should post here. Would you care to clarify on this? I have no agenda or conflict of interest.

Judgement Day

Judgement Day wrote: »

We should be careful what we wish for - there's a certain other mod who takes an inordinate amount of pleasure in highlighting the folly of having a railway network and if he is moved here....Personally, I can't understand why some posters on this thread haven't been site banned.

I'd happily do it if I were asked. Though it's very much a "we'll ask you" thing.

Sligo Quay

lord lucan wrote: »

Trains seem to bring out the worst in posters.

Certainly agree with that, joined this forum to get some useful discussion going on the railway and its economy, not getting caught up in a civil war with trainspotters who I don't even know, if I walked by some of the posters in the street probably look and behave normal, some of the messages that where deleted by Victor where absolutely outrageous, the posts where made by a poster who dished it out but then couldn'd take it, now wants to end up in a High Court, really weird, calm needs to be restored.

Victor

Does anyone have contact details for Chris Playfair?

Shadys back

Ah Victor whats the criac.....

What Can I do for you??

Feel free to contact me via my website :

chrisplayfair.smugmug.com

Chris Playfair

cmore123

Railway staff would indeed get it in the neck if the powers that be see them (fairly or not) as tolerating or turning a blind eye to anything which flouts a clinically exact interpretation of rules, so let's not do it. As enthusiasts, railway staff are the friend, not the foe so let's keep it that way.

Hungerford

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Certainly agree with that, joined this forum to get some useful discussion going on the railway and its economy, not getting caught up in a civil war with trainspotters who I don't even know

I wouldn't get too discouraged - I suspect that this is largely the work of one or two people. Once they have been sorted out, we can get back to normal service. You raised a valid issue about trespassing etc.

cmore123

Banning all photography outright is too draconian. It is a free world, and in such a place all photography should be allowed, unless it can be shown to break laws or invade privacy etc. There's no way there's anything wrong with standing on a railway platform, where passengers are allowed, taking pics of a train. Obviously, people in unauthorised places can't be allowed - but that applies irrespective of whether they are taking pictures or not.

Niles

cmore123 wrote: »

Banning all photography outright is too draconian. It is a free world, and in such a place all photography should be allowed, unless it can be shown to break laws or invade privacy etc. There's no way there's anything wrong with standing on a railway platform, where passengers are allowed, taking pics of a train. Obviously, people in unauthorised places can't be allowed - but that applies irrespective of whether they are taking pictures or not.

Exactly. As you say it becomes a problem when people start taking photos where they shouldn't. Worse still it can set a bad example. I'm aware some rail publications now have a policy of not publishing any photos taken from such places - rightly so.

What makes this particular situation all the more bizarre is that a while back the same photographer had picture captions up moaning about passengers being supposedly let down off the platform on railtours - yet quite clearly seems to think it's okay for them to do it. I fail to understand the mentality here.

Victor

cmore123 wrote: »

Banning all photography outright is too draconian. It is a free world, and in such a place all photography should be allowed, unless it can be shown to break laws or invade privacy etc. There's no way there's anything wrong with standing on a railway platform, where passengers are allowed, taking pics of a train. Obviously, people in unauthorised places can't be allowed - but that applies irrespective of whether they are taking pictures or not.

Not quite. Both Luas and Irish Rail look dimly at people using tri-pods on platforms, without permission, whereas there generally isn't a problem with hand-helds. Two guys on the Luas at the platform edge at Abbey Street last week wouldn't even step back and acknowledge the driver when he sounded the horn.

Sligo Quay

starhillroad wrote: »

This is Ireland. We bend rules, we don't break them. There is an inherent intolerance of zero tolerance.

You sound just like a Fianna Fáil Minister, yes this is Ireland, it would be nice to widen this debate into the politics section, thats what has the country in the corrupted state its in, planners, bankers, property speculators, and now trainspotters lol WE BEND THE RULES, you see that the culture in this country in every walk of life, WE BEND THE RULES, trainspotters in the UK if they break the rules or try to bend the rules, they get arrested by the British Transport Police. But in Ireland, its a ''nod and a wink'' culture, thats what Patrick Neary said to the banks 4years ago in so many words that sounded like, WE BEND THE RULES, we do it the ''eirsh way'' well we are all paying now, what that got to do with trespassing on train tracks, get my drift.

Hungerford

cmore123 wrote: »

There's no way there's anything wrong with standing on a railway platform, where passengers are allowed, taking pics of a train.

I don't think that anyone has a problem with photos being taken on platforms, I think the concern is the fact that the photographer had clambered up a signal pole to get a picture, which is taking things too far.

L1011

Shadys back wrote: »

Where does it say DO NOT CLIMB

or

WARNING TRESSPASSERS PROSECUTED ON A SIGNAL LADDER????

It doesn't

Therefore thy human is not expected to know whether it is permitted or not

Ladders are made for climbing!

You will have had to pass the 'trespassers prosecuted' sign at the end of the platform to *get* to the signal poles.

kingshankly

Victor wrote: »

Not quite. Both Luas and Irish Rail look dimly at people using tri-pods on platforms, without permission, whereas there generally isn't a problem with hand-helds. Two guys on the Luas at the platform edge at Abbey Street last week wouldn't even step back and acknowledge the driver when he sounded the horn.

Cameras in hands or tripods I have no problem with at all parents not holding children's hand I do

end of the road

Bonus_Pack wrote: »

the C.na.M. sets

excuse my ignnorence but what are they?

flyingsnail

end of the road wrote: »

excuse my ignnorence but what are they?

The Cu Na Mara Mk 3 set

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

excuse my ignnorence but what are they?

Cú na Mara - the Mark 3a International coaches.

Sligo Quay

Karsini wrote: »

Cú na Mara - the Mark 3a International coaches.

Good bit of info here in this link on IRN http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/489/Mk-3-Int?page=1

foggy_lad

cmore123 wrote: »

Banning all photography outright is too draconian. It is a free world, and in such a place all photography should be allowed, unless it can be shown to break laws or invade privacy etc. There's no way there's anything wrong with standing on a railway platform, where passengers are allowed, taking pics of a train. Obviously, people in unauthorised places can't be allowed - but that applies irrespective of whether they are taking pictures or not.

I really don't have any issue or problem with enthusiasts trainspotters etc taking pictures in and around stations or even including passengers in photographs as long as those pictures are not used in any commercial venture or for monetary gain. I do have a problem when people are taking pictures and selling on those pictures to others including magazines and other media organisations. Also the photographer should be clearly visible to anyone who might end up in their photographs.

I have seen on a number of occasions a middle aged male with longish mousy brown hair walking around Busáras and Heuston station holding a camera with neckstrap but no lens cap, he was definitely taking pictures as his thumb was on the shutter button and he was holding the camera in such a way that it could be focused etc. My initial thought was he was taking pictures of groups of young people waiting on buses or trains but then assumed he was after pictures of trains and buses. People like this should be banned from bus and rail stations as they are not being open about what they are doing.

gobnaitolunacy

Sweet Jesus.

Irrespective of whether or not there's a sign on a signal ladder it is not intended as a climbing frame for the general public. Plus, even a staff member is not supposed to go climbing up on one UNLESS it's part of his job!

steamengine

The squabbling that's continuing here is doing zilch for the cause of preservation - terrible PR in fact.

Cookie_Monster

Shadys back wrote: »

where does it say NO tresspassing or that it is tresspassing that can be seen to the view of the human at the ladder??

Or Do not climb???

Please answer that before continuing with more rubbish

so it's ok because it's not explicitly stated? I thought common sense would have implied such a structure is off limits to the public?

Hungerford

Shadys back wrote: »

where does it say NO tresspassing or that it is tresspassing that can be seen to the view of the human at the ladder?

By a similar token, there's also no sign saying that you can't fling yourself off the platform or hijack a parked locomotive, both of which you presumably endorse seeing as there are no signs expressly forbidding it?

kingshankly

Shadys back wrote: »

where does it say NO tresspassing or that it is tresspassing that can be seen to the view of the human at the ladder??

Or Do not climb???

Please answer that before continuing with more rubbish

There is no sign saying don't push people out on to the tracks so ya must be able to do that. Listen playfair you know the rules as well as any of us your just acting like a spoilt brat here that thinks he knows it all which is sad because any time I came across you I found you to be sound.

kingshankly

Shadys back wrote: »

With regarding to hijacking a parked loco - the doors usually say NO UNAUTHORISED PERSONS IN DRIVING CABS

Your contradicting yourself as you have been in many a cab without authorisation

Cookie_Monster

Shadys back wrote: »

Regarding flinging yourself off the platform - I think that's quite low and sick of you to say that considering people have taken their lives doing that (suicide). It's very insensitive

why is talking about it insensitive, surely burying it and refusing to openly discuss it as Irish culture is wont to do is more insensitive...

kingshankly

Regarding flinging yourself off the platform - I think that's quite low and sick of you to say that considering people have taken their lives doing that (suicide). It's very insensitive

insensitive my arse suicide is a very common place in the railway and is something as drivers we unfortunately have to live with.

Cookie_Monster

(I thought it about time...)

Hungerford

Shadys back wrote: »

Regarding flinging yourself off the platform - I think that's quite low

I wasn't talking in terms of suicide - I was actually just thinking that, by your logic, anyone could jump on the tracks from the platform and explore because there are no signs specifically prohibiting it.

Bonus_Pack

Of course there should not be a sign stuck to every brick and ladder around a statio. There is this thing called (un)common sense that some people use. If signs were put on everything it would end up like the USA where everthing is brought down to the level of a moron. Have you ever tried to read a manual for an american made tool or machine?

Anyway, as I said earlier, it is often more established enthusiasts who think they are above the rules and tresspass or do other silly things. They need to cop the f. on if this hobby is not to end up severly restricted.

As regards the poster who climbed the pole, they still have not identified themselves and come forward. As I said for all your denying it, you've been caught out in spectacular fashion in that video. You might as well just come out and come clean as your not codding anyone only yourself.

Off topic:

This is not britain It's is Ireland. We got the british out of this part of Ireland a long time ago

The UK gov gave us the railways, along with virtually every decent looking public biulding in the country. I think the Brit bashing that goes on on this forum by republican fanboys (not directed at you) is at times farcical.

Sligo Quay

Shadys back wrote: »

Ladders are made for climbing!

Ok Iv just very carefully viewed that video again. Clearly the ladder in question has an ''anti climbing device'' installed covering the ladder to prevent nutcases like you climbing it. This device I presume can be removed so that AUTHORISED PERSONNEL can climb and gain access to the signal for maintenance purposes only. That video is a valuable piece of evidence, fair play to the person who took this piece of video, it maybe needed in court at a later stage, now Victor do the decent thing and ban this troll

foggy_lad

A bit off the thread title but someone was climbing signal poles last night between Newbridge and Kildare and the resulting vandalism caused Chaos to morning services into and out of Heuston.

Scofflaw

OK, this looks like standard C&T trench warfare to me. I don't know most of you, so I'll probably be pretty even-handed if I decide to go through the thread with a banhammer and infraction gun.

moderately,
Scofflaw