Unpopular wrestling opinions

garhjw

CSF wrote: »

It's actually true, but maybe if you say it more aggressively it may become a lie. Need to try harder.

Definitely TRUE

ShagNastii

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Bollox. I hate people who have never seen him wrestle outside of a Raw/Smackdown/PPV say that. Look at his matches in NXT and then come back to me and say he is average. I have no problem with people not liking him but saying he is well below average in the ring is a lie.

Probably nit picking but a personal hate of mine is the debate about in ring skills, technical ability and people referencing back to a period in a wrestlers career.

Used to happen a lot with Austin during the peak of Mud stomping "Stone Cold". Any time anyone critiqued main event 5 moves of doom Austin, people would fall over themselves to point out his stellar ringwork as Stunning Steve in dubya C dubya.

Just because somebody has replaced a perfect vertical suplex for a "people's elbow" or "taunt" in their move set doesn't they are crap in ring.

The matches Husky Harris had in NXT are no different to now. You are just sugarcoating NXT. He has upped the mannerism yeah but he is still has the move set of a "Sherman tank with a Ferrari engine".

leggo

I think Bray Wyatt gets a lot of stick for his ring work for the same reason Roy Nelson gets grief off UFC fans: he looks a bit out of shape so people assume he can't compensate for that. He's holding up his end of the bargain so far, but his ring work isn't at the same level as his promos just yet. That's not a slight, though, more a compliment for how his promo skills have seen him elevated above his paygrade already. It takes time to learn to work main event, American style in front of 20,000 people and most have the benefit of working the midcard for an extended period then, as they find their groove, getting some momentum going so they begin to stand-out there (look at Cesaro for a perfect example of this). By the time they cash in on that momentum they're more than ready.

Bray has been thrown in the deep end and is so far managing to swim. I've no doubt (hearing what we're hearing about his attitude, willingness to learn and how highly veterans rate him) that his ring work will follow his promos soon enough as he gets to work more experienced main eventers on a regular basis. It's just a shame there's not the likes of Shawn Michaels there anymore to work with these guys and be an instant landing point for their arrival on the main event scene, Cena can work but only tends to become a great worker off the back of who he's working with, so he's not the ideal first feud from that standpoint.

gnfnrhead

Wyatt is all gimmick and little substance at this point.

For me, he has had five stand out matches. One against potentially the best in the world, and two that featured four of the best in the company. In both of those matches, he was completely replaceable too. The Cena match was a huge let down when Cena is usually very reliable, especially in big matches. The Kane match was an abortion. Any other match has been average at best.

When broken down like that, he has had the one positive stand out performance and it was against who many class as the best in the world. He needs a big performance at Extreme Rules or else he will have a tag of needing to be carried.

On the plus side, he is still young so can develop more. But that doesn't mean he isn't incredibly overrated right now. There is a reason 90% of his promos have been pre-taped.

Ape Lincoln wrote: »

I had an English teacher in secondary school who one day started a class by saying how every life has a peak - you're born, you die but somewhere between those two points your life peaks.

When was Sting's peak? Ric Flair giving him great matches in the late 80s, ripping off The Crow and having average to poor matches in the late 90s or wrestling in a t-shirt in front of a few hundred people in TNA?

Late 80's and early 90's was Sting at his best. Giving Flair 100% credit is under rating Sting to an incredible extent. You don't become the top guy in a global company by being carried. Sting deserves every bit of praise he gets. The guy is 55 and still able to hold his own even today but now would need to be carried to anything more than an average match.

I'm curious though, if based purely on match quality as you seem to be doing, what the hell business does the biggest name in wrestling history have in the Hall of Fame?

max life wrote: »

AJ Lee is so over-rated....there, I said it!

By far and away the closest they have to the total package for a Diva, and the closest they have had for a long time.

Omackeral

Wyatt is unique. He's not cookie cutter and maybe that's where people are getting mixed up. He's not supposed to wrestle catch-as-catch-can. I like him and find him very different to the rest. That, to me, is enjoyable.

gnfnrhead

Omackeral wrote: »

Wyatt is unique. He's not cookie cutter and maybe that's where people are getting mixed up. He's not supposed to wrestle catch-as-catch-can. I like him and find him very different to the rest. That, to me, is enjoyable.

Freight Train is different, doesn't make him good :pac:

thebostoncrab

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Freight Train is different, doesn't make him good :pac:

I love watching Freight Train for all the wrong oh but oh so right reasons, but you know that somewhere, someone has looked at him and his smooth belly and thought he was a great wrestler and an expert on the mic

Hashtag_HEEL

thebostoncrab wrote: »

I love watching Freight Train for all the wrong oh but oh so right reasons, but you know that somewhere, someone has looked at him and his smooth belly and thought he was a great wrestler and an expert on the mic

CHOO CHOO!

riffmongous

This should be pretty unpopular but Paul Heyman bores me in the majority of his promos and I normally skip them. At this point I don't even bother to see if it will be good anymore.

krudler

riffmongous wrote: »

This should be pretty unpopular but Paul Heyman bores me in the majority of his promos and I normally skip them. At this point I don't even bother to see if it will be good anymore.

I love Heyman but how he pronounces Bro..sorry, Braaacck Lesssnurrrr, is annoying now.

ShagNastii

TBF to Heyman I think most of his speal is that he is meant to be annoying and weaselly. He just milks it that bit too much at times.

smilerf

TBH i used love Heymans promos but now all he does is bang on about his man crush on Brock

riffmongous

To be fair of course a big problem is how he's covering for Brock not saying anything or usually just not being there, but the end effect is Xpac heat for me, and if I am watching live that's usually the point I go to bed

JP Liz V1

ShagNastii wrote: »

TBF to Heyman I think most of his speal is that he is meant to be annoying and weaselly. He just milks it that bit too much at times.

Yes Braaack Lesnar breaking Taker's streak will get very tiresome

gnfnrhead

The annoying prick heel is making people think he is an annoying prick? I'd call that him doing his job.

Angron

gnfnrhead wrote: »

The annoying prick heel is making people think he is an annoying prick? I'd call that him doing his job.

Sometimes though being annoying doesn't make you a good heel, it just makes you annoying. Like Vickie Guerrero, I never classed her as a good heel, just someone that's annoying.

Palo Alto

Not sure if this is unpopular or not, but I think for maximum, nuclear heat, after Lesnar F5'd Taker, he should have let Heyman get the pin.

leggo

Angron wrote: »

Sometimes though being annoying doesn't make you a good heel, it just makes you annoying. Like Vickie Guerrero, I never classed her as a good heel, just someone that's annoying.

Being annoying is a deliberate device he's using so you don't think he's 'cool'. Here's a guy who's run ECW and is probably the best talker in the business, fans like you should like him. If you don't then it is working. You probably didn't like the fact that Lesnar beat the streak. So down the line you'll probably pay money when someone comes along to beat him up and shuts Heyman up too. That's just wrestling working as it should.

You shouldn't look at a heel and admire them for being a good heel because your relationship with the product is as a consumer and not a talent evaluator. You should only ever dislike them.

Angron

leggo wrote: »

Being annoying is a deliberate device he's using so you don't think he's 'cool'. Here's a guy who's run ECW and is probably the best talker in the business, fans like you should like him. If you don't then it is working. You probably didn't like the fact that Lesnar beat the streak. So down the line you'll probably pay money when someone comes along to beat him up and shuts Heyman up too. That's just wrestling working as it should.

You shouldn't look at a heel and admire them for being a good heel because your relationship with the product is as a consumer and not a talent evaluator. You should only ever dislike them.

I like Heyman though, I enjoy seeing him. What I said wasn't directed at him though, I'm just saying you can't say everyone that's annoying is good at being a heel.

leggo

Sorry, I know I used the word 'You' but I meant it in a general sense. The fact that smart fans are disliking him is a sign that it's working. People are orgasming about his appearance on the SCSA show, then as soon as he appears in character they're getting wound up. That's amazing work on his part: getting two polar opposite, real reactions simultaneously in two different settings.

riffmongous

It's not working if it annoys you so much you lose interest in the product though.

Stereomaniac

You're talking about it though, aren't you?

krudler

leggo wrote: »

Sorry, I know I used the word 'You' but I meant it in a general sense. The fact that smart fans are disliking him is a sign that it's working. People are orgasming about his appearance on the SCSA show, then as soon as he appears in character they're getting wound up. That's amazing work on his part: getting two polar opposite, real reactions simultaneously in two different settings.

Sure look at the post-Mania Raw, booed out of it for bragging about ending the streak, gets a massive pop when Cesaro says he's with him.

leggo

riffmongous wrote: »

It's not working if it annoys you so much you lose interest in the product though.

Maybe you might, but I seriously doubt that Paul Heyman doing a perfect heel shtick will do any ratings damage. I'd say the opposite will be the case in that he'll get over and help Cesaro become a big star that people are very interested in.

riffmongous

Stereomaniac wrote: »

You're talking about it though, aren't you?

Yes but I'm talking about how his weekly mid-show rant is the point I usually stop watching.

I sure hope it works out for Caesaro because Heyman's last few clients didn't benefit at all and considering Caesaro is in the middle of a popular face turn I don't like having him stand beside Heyman while he does his Lesnar heel shtick. And what happens when Brock comes back? Axel was never going to be the next big thing but being around Lesnar and Heyman did his credibility a lot of damage he ended up as the constant fall guy.

Vision of Disorder

gnfnrhead wrote: »

By far and away the closest they have to the total package for a Diva, and the closest they have had for a long time.

I mostly agree with the first part of that but that still doesn't mean AJ Lee isn't over-rated. It's a mess of a division at the moment overall for all their hyping of it.

A Brad Maddox Guy

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I mostly agree with the first part of that but that still doesn't mean AJ Lee isn't over-rated. It's a mess of a division at the moment overall for all their hyping of it.

I've seen so many people claim AJ is over-rated that I'm beginning to wonder if the unpopular opinion is "I like AJ Lee". Personally for the last 2 years I think AJ has been the only consistently entertaining diva on the roster (that awful AJ-Vickie-Cena story aside). She's had limited material to work with ever since the Kaitlyn feud ended, but that's the fault of WWE and not her.

Vision of Disorder

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

I've seen so many people claim AJ is over-rated that I'm beginning to wonder if the unpopular opinion is "I like AJ Lee". Personally for the last 2 years I think AJ has been the only consistently entertaining diva on the roster (that awful AJ-Vickie-Cena story aside). She's had limited material to work with ever since the Kaitlyn feud ended, but that's the fault of WWE and not her.

I was a big fan going all the way back to NXT but I've been quite bored of her for quite a while now. Her promos of late have made me want to die a little every time she opens her mouth. The lousy competition doesn't help her much (most of them can't wrestle at all, Natalya has zero personality, Tamina not much better, the Bellas are improved in the ring since they returned but still not particularly good) but AJ doesn't sustain my interest anymore either. It's probably unfair to blame her for not being able to carry the whole division of course. Hopefully Paige's elevation will help. Of course if they cared about the division at all there's no shortage of women's talent out there.

Or, to throw out a possibly unpopular opinion of my own, they could push hard to bring Beth Phoenix back.

jaykhunter

It's worth noting that AJ Lee hasn't been booked to do anything decent in months. She didn't suddenly lose all of her talent. I imagine "overrated" comes from people annoyed at others still 'living on goodwill' of how well she was booked/performed for the prior two years, rather than the averageness of how her character's been overall recently and her future outlook. She's still more than capable of doing a great job when given the proper material again.

gnfnrhead

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I mostly agree with the first part of that but that still doesn't mean AJ Lee isn't over-rated. It's a mess of a division at the moment overall for all their hyping of it.

How is she over-rated though?

She is the best Diva they currently have, and the best they have had for a long time. Others like Beth Phoenix and Natalya were good in the ring but pretty useless otherwise. The likes of Maryse were good for segments but pretty useless otherwise. AJ can do it all and do it very well. Of course there are better wrestlers and talkers, but currently none of them have both in the way AJ does.

AJ would only be over rated if she wasnt good. She is very good and is rated accordingly.