Unpopular wrestling opinions

Vision of Disorder

gnfnrhead wrote: »

How is she over-rated though?

She is the best Diva they currently have, and the best they have had for a long time. Others like Beth Phoenix and Natalya were good in the ring but pretty useless otherwise. The likes of Maryse were good for segments but pretty useless otherwise. AJ can do it all and do it very well. Of course there are better wrestlers and talkers, but currently none of them have both in the way AJ does.

AJ would only be over rated if she wasnt good. She is very good and is rated accordingly.

She is the best they currently have. I completely agree.

Where we disagree (and they're no definitive right or wrong here, the beauty of wrestling is that different people react differently to different wrestlers) is in the appraisal of her talents.

I think she's very good in the ring though she's shown very little for me recently and doesn't seem to have developed much in the last year or so. I will concede that her moveset may be limited by forces beyond her control but I don't look forward to her matches in the way that I used to. As I've already conceded she's not working with much in that regard but even her own contributions to her matches aren't what they were for me.

Equally I'm actually alarmed by how far backwards she's gone on the mic. She did well as plucky little underdog AJ on NXT. She was absolutely terrific as nutbag AJ on Raw. Now she chews the scenery while delivering wooden dialogue with all the muddied conviction of a heel who still seems to want to be a face. Every time she's spoken for months now I am reminded with painful clarity that what I am watching is scripted, I find it impossible to suspend my disbelief with her anymore.

Look, like I said above, I was a big, big fan. She's got a hell out of a lot of talent. I just feel like she's coasting at the moment, that she's bought into her own hype a bit and, yes, getting by on her past accomplishments at the moment. I presume she will turn it around again at some point but my honest opinion is that, right now, she's part of the problem of a listless, tedious divas division rather than the figurehead for a new age that I believe she has the potential to become.

gnfnrhead

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

She is the best they currently have. I completely agree.

Where we disagree (and they're no definitive right or wrong here, the beauty of wrestling is that different people react differently to different wrestlers) is in the appraisal of her talents.

I think she's very good in the ring though she's shown very little for me recently and doesn't seem to have developed much in the last year or so. I will concede that her moveset may be limited by forces beyond her control but I don't look forward to her matches in the way that I used to. As I've already conceded she's not working with much in that regard but even her own contributions to her matches aren't what they were for me.

Equally I'm actually alarmed by how far backwards she's gone on the mic. She did well as plucky little underdog AJ on NXT. She was absolutely terrific as nutbag AJ on Raw. Now she chews the scenery while delivering wooden dialogue with all the muddied conviction of a heel who still seems to want to be a face. Every time she's spoken for months now I am reminded with painful clarity that what I am watching is scripted, I find it impossible to suspend my disbelief with her anymore.

Look, like I said above, I was a big, big fan. She's got a hell out of a lot of talent. I just feel like she's coasting at the moment, that she's bought into her own hype a bit and, yes, getting by on her past accomplishments at the moment. I presume she will turn it around again at some point but my honest opinion is that, right now, she's part of the problem of a listless, tedious divas division rather than the figurehead for a new age that I believe she has the potential to become.

You can thank the Bella twins for that. They got butthurt over the Total Divas promo and the whole storyline was scrapped. AJ has had almost nothing since then. Her feud with Kaitlyn was great, her Total Divas promo was great, her Wrestlemania promo was great. Basically, whenever she has been allowed, she has delivered the goods. It's hard to stand out when you are sent out to lose every match that isnt a title match.

For the heel who wants to be a face part, she sells a tonne of merchandise, so that has to be taken into account. She cant really go around insulting the people who she wants to be buying her stuff.

Everything else I'll concede can be put down to personal preference.

brinty

gnfnrhead wrote: »

You can thank the Bella twins for that. They got butthurt over the Total Divas promo and the whole storyline was scrapped. AJ has had almost nothing since then. Her feud with Kaitlyn was great, her Total Divas promo was great, her Wrestlemania promo was great. Basically, whenever she has been allowed, she has delivered the goods. It's hard to stand out when you are sent out to lose every match that isnt a title match.

For the heel who wants to be a face part, she sells a tonne of merchandise, so that has to be taken into account. She cant really go around insulting the people who she wants to be buying her stuff.

Everything else I'll concede can be put down to personal preference.

AJ is the best currently available in the Diva's division and she's limited. A massive sign how the division has regressed since its heydays of Lita, Trish, Mickie, Ashley et al...

Also on the Bella's getting huge parts these days, well when your engaged/married to Superman and Yes man who also have massive influence its easy to keep AJ down Those two girls ain't dumb..its not long ago they were kicked out on there arses but you can bet they won't be for as long as they are with their boys

jaykhunter

Closer viewing of Trish, Lita etc matches is required - they are not half as smooth or botch-free as memory would allow. They were presented better than any women before or since (incredible work by WWE) but their in-ring does not match it. I'm not saying AJ is as good as Gail Kim (or some Shimmer or All Japan Women's talent) but she's smoother than Trish and Lita.

beakerjoe

jaykhunter wrote: »

Closer viewing of Trish, Lita etc matches is required - they are not half as smooth or botch-free as memory would allow. They were presented better than any women before or since (incredible work by WWE) but their in-ring does not match it. I'm not saying AJ is as good as Gail Kim (or some Shimmer or All Japan Women's talent) but she's smoother than Trish and Lita.

I personally liked Victoria vs Trish more than anything with Lita.

Much better matches IMO

JP Liz V1

I kinda thought Trish was overrated myself

gnfnrhead

I assume that Ashley mention was a piss take? She is about the same level as Eva Marie :pac:

Lita was never anything special in the ring. She just had a unique style that made her look better than she actually was.

leggo

I remember seeing Lita when she debuted and being amazed by all that she could do tbh. I'd just never seen a woman do ranas and moonsaults, I was instantly a fan. So I think that's what you have to remember when it comes to her. Her matches mightn't age well but, for the time, she was a true trail blazer.

Ape Lincoln

I rewatched AJ Lee vs Natalya from Main Event in early March. Still think it's good, not flawless but. AJ looks to be trying to fight out of the sharpshooter as Nattie is putting it on which is a little thing I love seeing.

rovert

Lads Moolah is the greatest Women's wrestler of all time.

WWE told me.

Angron

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I assume that Ashley mention was a piss take? She is about the same level as Eva Marie :pac:

Lita was never anything special in the ring. She just had a unique style that made her look better than she actually was.

Do not besmirch Ashley's name like that!

krudler

Ape Lincoln wrote: »

I rewatched AJ Lee vs Natalya from Main Event in early March. Still think it's good, not flawless but. AJ looks to be trying to fight out of the sharpshooter as Nattie is putting it on which is a little thing I love seeing.

Nattie still does the sharpshooter better than The Rock, who did it in the same vein as John Cena's no pressure STF

tvercetti

krudler wrote: »

Nattie still does the sharpshooter better than The Rock, who did it in the same vein as John Cena's no pressure STF

Everytime Nattie goes for a sharpshooter, you get the feeling that she has never done one before. She looks confused trying to figure out which leg goes where!

ShagNastii

The one thing about Lita is that she was five times as ballsy as any other diva. Of course you have Mae Young but that was a different kind of ballsy.

If you look at most Diva matches that go at a snails pace., tiptoeing around. Lita could mix with the guys she was so dynamic. Her hurricanranas were dynamite.

thebostoncrab

I don't think AJ is the best the company has. In terms of in ring skill, I'd rank Paige and Emma ahead of her. With personality, I'd place Emma above her. I know I know, it sounds like I'm talking ****, but there really is something about Emma's in ring style that I really enjoy watching. My issue with AJ, and why I have become so hard on her over the past few months, is that she has been handed a bad card and instead of making the best of it, she has phoned it in. Her promos have been flat and not suited to her one bit, starting with the "diva pipebomb" that got hyped to high heaven. When she played the underdog or the psycho she was great on the stick and, most importantly, believable. And while she is good in the ring, her skill set isn't at the level to make me believe in her self-produced hype.

Can she reach the levels that she believes she can? Of course, she has everything in her hands, except it looks like her boyfriends bitterness and self-righteous crusade has rubbed off her and instead of working with what she has, she has dropped the ball on a huge level.

"Oh but TBC, she can't help being handed a bad hand and being made to look poor. Anyone else in this situation would be doing the same thing."


Oh yeah?



Emma has been instantly slapped into a comedy angle with Santino, something that will be incredibly hard to shake and, for a woman of her skill level, has to suck knowing the up hill fight she has ahead of her. And what has she done? She has gone out there and worked with what she has been dealt and brought a large amount of fun to it. She deserves alot better, but at least she isn't sulking about and phoning in her appearances. She has embraced it. I think I'm in the minority when it comes to Emma, but I have a lot more time for people who entertain me and respect them.

Now, I'm off to dance.

Moneymaker

Yeah i've ranted quite a bit about how Emma is being totally wasted and doesn't deserve to be stuck with a guy who was stale in 2007.

I wouldn't call this unpopular per se but Seth Rollins is the MVP of the Shield now imo. He's improved a lot on the mic and his in-ring ability alone is strong enough for him to have a long run in the upper-mid card to main event level.

jaykhunter

Rollins is my fav of the three as well. He's as talented as he ever was but he's being showcased more prominently now, as the best wrestler and given big spots so people can see it. It's really smart booking by WWE, changing the dynamic of the trio freshens it up without actually changing things.

rovert

Re: Emma

Aside from Creative. There's a definite issue between the contemporary (from a comedic stand point) characters NXT and those who old farts who WWE has commentate Raw - JBL and Jerry Lawler. All they do is point out flaws and step on/point out the joke. They will like knobble the Bo Dallas character before it has a chance to take off.

On the Santino front all power to her if means being used more and selling more merch.

gnfnrhead

The problem with Emma is she just appeared with the gimmick already established. A very small amount of the average WWE audience watch NXT on a regular basis so to the majority, she just looks mentally challenged. Being paired with Santino is nothing compared to that. First impressions are very important and hers was incredibly bad.

Angron

jaykhunter wrote: »

Rollins is my fav of the three as well. He's as talented as he ever was but he's being showcased more prominently now, as the best wrestler and given big spots so people can see it. It's really smart booking by WWE, changing the dynamic of the trio freshens it up without actually changing things.

That's one thing I was glad of. I was starting to think for a bit that Rollins was getting overshadowed by the other two, but when they had him start doing stuff like the sentons over the rope, it really put a good bit of focus on Rollins.

Edit: unpopular opinion, I hate Emma. I hate her music, dancing, and those constant damned puns based around her name. Emma-lution, Dil-Emma, Emma-plane, awful the lot of them.

thebostoncrab

Angron wrote: »

Edit: unpopular opinion, I hate Emma. I hate her music, dancing, and those constant damned puns based around her name. Emma-lution, Dil-Emma, Emma-plane, awful the lot of them.

Now you're being Emmacist

Angron

Angron wrote: »

That's one thing I was glad of. I was starting to think for a bit that Rollins was getting overshadowed by the other two, but when they had him start doing stuff like the sentons over the rope, it really put a good bit of focus on Rollins.

Edit: unpopular opinion, I hate Emma. I hate her music, dancing, and those constant damned puns based around her name. Emma-lution, Dil-Emma, Emma-plane, awful the lot of them.

You just don't emmalieve in her enough.

jaykhunter

Probably a lot more amiable in NXT and if i'd seen the character develop, but I just see a talented wrestler with a god-awful gimmick. On raw is horrendous. She's just someone who came in with a bad dancing gimmick like a female Dancing Bubba Ray. I'm usually a fan of puns but I also hate Michael Cole reaming off her puns. I really hope she drops Santino sooner than later and gets a proper non-jobber gimmick

Soft Falling Rain

rovert wrote: »

Re: Emma

Aside from Creative. There's a definite issue between the contemporary (from a comedic stand point) characters NXT and those who old farts who WWE has commentate Raw - JBL and Jerry Lawler. All they do is point out flaws and step on/point out the joke. They will like knobble the Bo Dallas character before it has a chance to take off.

On the Santino front all power to her if means being used more and selling more merch.

Agree on the point but aren't they just regurgitating what's being shouted into their ear? I mean could someone just go rogue and bury a superstar that big things are expected of?

thebostoncrab

jaykhunter wrote: »

Probably a lot more amiable in NXT and if i'd seen the character develop, but I just see a talented wrestler with a god-awful gimmick. On raw is horrendous. She's just someone who came in with a bad dancing gimmick like a female Dancing Bubba Ray. I'm usually a fan of puns but I also hate Michael Cole reaming off her puns. I really hope she drops Santino sooner than later and gets a proper non-jobber gimmick

The problem is in NXT she wasn't like this straight off the bat, it all developed over time and it was a lot easier to accept. She was just this bubbly and slightly aloof woman that wanted to have a laugh. The dance and her mannerisms all developed over time. When she debuted in the WWE they didn't allow audiences to understand her and let the gimmick keep going expecting audiences to know her from following NXT. Once this Santino stuff has finished I imagine we will see something else from her, but for now I'm just delighted to see my favourite Diva get air time, victories and a push.

D.Q

Unpopular opinion: haven't a clue how yous are all discussing the diva's as if they matter a ****e. Really don't see a place for them on the show, just don't get it at all. They add nothing.

Moneymaker

D.Q wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: haven't a clue how yous are all discussing the diva's as if they matter a ****e. Really don't see a place for them on the show, just don't get it at all. They add nothing.

Go watch Shimmer or the TNA Knockout division when it was at its peak(Gail Kim/Awesome Kong feud) and tell us that.

Woman are perfectly capable of wrestling and entertaining us too. Attitudes like yours are why they are reduced to sitting around looking pretty or get 2 minutes of TV time a week.

Ape Lincoln

D.Q wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: haven't a clue how yous are all discussing the diva's as if they matter a ****e. Really don't see a place for them on the show, just don't get it at all. They add nothing.

AJ and Natalya had a good match on Main Event last month. It was what you could call a 'competitive contest'.

With women MMA fighters gaining popularity I kinda half thought WWE might book their women wrestlers properly. Let's see how far they go with Paige.

jaykhunter

Moneymaker wrote: »

Woman are perfectly capable of wrestling and entertaining us too. Attitudes like yours are why they are reduced to sitting around looking pretty or get 2 minutes of TV time a week.

*Attitudes like Vince McMahon over the last 30 years. WWF -apart from isolated times- treat women like garbage and hire zero-talent women like Eva Marie. WWE are to blame for WWE fans disregarding women.

thebostoncrab

D.Q wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: haven't a clue how yous are all discussing the diva's as if they matter a ****e. Really don't see a place for them on the show, just don't get it at all. They add nothing.

Without a shadow of a doubt, one of my all time favourite matches and it is between two women. Today there is a fantastic pool of talent in North America that, if the WWE signed and pulled the trigger on , would result in some of the most exciting matches going today. The only reason women's matches is because of the WWE use of models instead of wrestlers , but that tide seems to be changing. Even now there have been some great women's matches happening in NXT