Unpopular wrestling opinions

CSF

Moneymaker wrote: »

Go watch Shimmer or the TNA Knockout division when it was at its peak(Gail Kim/Awesome Kong feud) and tell us that.

Woman are perfectly capable of wrestling and entertaining us too. Attitudes like yours are why they are reduced to sitting around looking pretty or get 2 minutes of TV time a week.

It is a fairly valid opinion all the same. The Divas division adds nothing, and would need a complete overhaul for that to change.

Moneymaker

jaykhunter wrote: »

*Attitudes like Vince McMahon over the last 30 years. WWF -apart from isolated times- treat women like garbage and hire zero-talent women like Eva Marie. WWE are to blame for WWE fans disregarding women.

I'll give you that but people can think for themselves, no?

beakerjoe

Moneymaker wrote: »

I'll give you that but people can think for themselves, no?

I agree with JayK, beacuse of the way the majority of womens wrestling has been booked in WWE over the last decade and a half, its been ingrained in me to not give a flying fcuk about womens wrestling in WWE, no matter how good the talent is (wrestling-wise).

leggo

Okay, here's a question to flip the argument on its head: why is it important that women's wrestling be given a platform to shine in WWE?

On a given card, there's a requirement to have matches that pad out the card and give everything a chance to breathe. A big bugbear of mine about certain promotions on the indies is that a lot of people booking don't understand this: you have to let your money matches stand out and everyone else has to know their role on the card and act as such. Certain matches are there just to be 'booyay', then you have your popcorn matches, then your midcard grudge matches, and your main events. Not everyone can have false finishes, do spectacular highspots, and come away fighting for match of the night honours. That style wears on fans and raises the bar to immeasurable heights for your next show. And it doesn't let you sell what you want to sell as a product either. It's like an action movie that's all explosions, no storyline. Eventually it's just tiring.

When you look at the amount, just based on numbers alone, of quality women (who have the look and ability) who come through the ranks, it makes perfect sense for them to be your popcorn match that allows everyone a chance to breathe before/after a big match. There's simply not enough good-looking/talented/special attraction competitors out there to make it sustainable to compete with the men on a like-for-like basis.

Not only that, but it's incredibly difficult for women to break through and get to the stage where we currently see them used. If it's that hard to get even that return back, you don't have something realistically sustainable.

Never mind the question: will people ever take them seriously enough to draw money? No matter what, the people who's money they'd rely on to justify any sustained effort will only ever objectify them. An average-looking champion who could wrestle like Ric Flair would only ever be seen as an average-looking champion. Why do you think it took the likes of Ronda Rousey and Meisha Tate succeeding to finally get Dana White interested in a women's division in UFC?

It's harsh on the women who do try, and I'm glad there are promotions out there who do allow that talent to shine. But in top-level pro-wrestling women will only ever be a niche attraction. You wanna be the curtain-closer at the circus, don't become a clown, who'll always be the comic relief by definition. It's just the nature of the business.

Ape Lincoln

Well one way to take women wrestlers seriously would be to stop calling them divas. Not posting softcore porn pictures on wrestling forums might help to.

Jester252

Ape Lincoln wrote: »

Well one way to take women wrestlers seriously would be to stop calling them divas. Not posting softcore porn pictures on wrestling forums might help to.

and get rid of that Barbie belt.

gerrybbadd

Jester252 wrote: »

and get rid of that Barbie belt.

^^^ This X 100

jaykhunter

Moneymaker wrote: »

I'll give you that but people can think for themselves, no?

Well they are, lol, from what's been presented. Even on the internet, Shimmer/AJWPW is INCREDIBLY niche... "don't have your own thread on pw boards" niche. Put it this way - If people only ever heard chart music, I'd expect them to think music is garbage.

Moneymaker

jaykhunter wrote: »

Well they are, lol, from what's been presented. Even on the internet, Shimmer/AJWPW is INCREDIBLY niche... "don't have your own thread on pw boards" niche. Put it this way - If people only ever heard chart music, I'd expect them to think music is garbage.

Fair enough.

A Primal Nut

I agree with the idea that in WWE divas are pointless; other than to serve as a space to breathe between big main events. They are there to look pretty and bitch about each other and not much else, so for the most part is seems like a waste of time to talk about who is upcoming or who should be on top as they are interchangeable. Unless you want to talk about who is the hottest one in which case you'll suddenly get a lot of discussion.

But I will give A.J. credit for being the only one who has got my attention over the last couple of years; helped by WWE putting her into a lot of interesting stoylines and she played them well.

Reebrock

Random thought in of itself, and this isn't directed at anybody. But I've noticed the hardcore fans of the above mentioned niche women's wrestling groups... they're pretty relentless.

jaykhunter

Reebrock wrote: »

Random thought in of itself, and this isn't directed at anybody. But I've noticed the hardcore fans of the above mentioned niche women's wrestling groups... they're pretty relentless.

Ah sure the smaller the fanbase, the louder fans are in general. It's why I can never get "WWE" chants started Specifically women's wrestling, it has a bad rap thanks to WWE's models and general portrayal so Shimmer etc fans would be quick to point out (and promote) that it's not all like that. And of course to sound knowledgeable.

A Brad Maddox Guy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I agree with the idea that in WWE divas are pointless; other than to serve as a space to breathe between big main events. They are there to look pretty and bitch about each other and not much else, so for the most part is seems like a waste of time to talk about who is upcoming or who should be on top as they are interchangeable. Unless you want to talk about who is the hottest one in which case you'll suddenly get a lot of discussion.

But I will give A.J. credit for being the only one who has got my attention over the last couple of years; helped by WWE putting her into a lot of interesting stoylines and she played them well.

This is where I think WWE have failed in the women's division; apart from AJ no other diva has any kind of character depth. WWE spent time on developing AJ as a character and making her look important and so many fans see/saw her as important. Her character developed from Daniel Bryan's cute girlfriend that he used as a verbal punching bag; getting dumped and latching onto CM Punk for showing a bit of compassion afterwards; going crazy when Punk (and Kane) rejected her; f*cking Bryan over at the wedding and getting revenge; with the cycle repeated with Cena & Ziggler so that she now doesn't care about love, all she cares about is herself and the Divas Championship.

Compare that to the character development of all the other divas:
Aksana - Eastern European seductress that hasn't tried seducing anybody since Cesaro.
Funkadactyls - The have poms poms and dance.
Natalya - She's a member of the Hart family that used to have a flatulence problem.
The Bellas - Used to be bitches but are now no-character faces because of a reality show
Alicia Fox - She's tall. Sometimes she's good, sometimes she's bad. That's basically it.
Tamina - She's mean and now wears a leather jacket that she throws at people.
Layla - She used to actually be entertaining I thought but in recent years her character has been a series of unexplained actions. Why did she turn on Kaitlyn? Why did she abandon AJ? Why is she now dancing with Fandango? I don't recall a reason behind any of these 3 things which have all occurred in the last year.

I'm not going to include Paige, Emma or Summer Rae in this because they're still fairly new to the main roster. Judging by NXT, WWE are in the process of turning a corner with the women. It will never be a main feature of the show but I don't agree that it should be no more than filler just because filler is needed. AJ and Kaitlyn had a very good match at Payback last year because it was given time, it had a story behind it and the fans were given a reason to get invested in both characters by that story. In my opinion to make the division more than just a p*ss break to the majority of fans WWE need to (as has been said) stop calling them divas and call them women, change the butterfly belt as it straight away can't be taken seriously, develop the characters beyond their basic gimmick, and put effort into their feuds. Why should we as fans care about something that the writers clearly don't care about themselves?

TLDR: AJ is the only diva WWE spent time developing, the rest are just a basic gimmick (sometimes not even that) and no more. Couple that with short matches, no proper feuds and calling them divas and it's no wonder nobody takes the division seriously. /rant

the groutch

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I agree with the idea that in WWE divas are pointless; other than to serve as a space to breathe between big main events. They are there to look pretty and bitch about each other and not much else, so for the most part is seems like a waste of time to talk about who is upcoming or who should be on top as they are interchangeable.

That because it's how WWE want it to be.
TNA on the other hand only sign women who can actually wrestle, and put together proper storylines and feuds, at one stage the Knockouts division was better than the men's one. Shame they let so many of them go.

ShagNastii

Probably sexist but I'd rather not have it (Divas) than have a handful of mediocre token women taking up mid card places that could be filled with lower card talent that could have entertaining feuds.

The Intercontinental, US and Tag Titles have been an after thought for the guts of about 15 years now whilst most PPVs have had that ever present Diva match "p*ss break".

During the nineties the undercard title matches were often show stealing.

My favourite women's match ever (Mickie/Trish WM22) wasn't even my favourite match of THAT show.

Ridley

Does this mean we can have a PW in-ring talent related Divas thread now?

the groutch

Ridley wrote: »

Does this mean we can have a PW in-ring talent related Divas thread now?

Yeah, but I think a better name would be The AJ Lee Appreciation Thread.

Blue_Dabadee

I am glad that a minority of fans in this community like women's wrestling.

Divas are never given an opportunity to shine most of time.

Remember AJ Lee vs. Kaitlyn for last year that was a rare time were divas given an opportunity to shine, there match at Payback was phenomenal, it told a great story in the ring and the buildup towards the match was great as well, it almost stole the show.

I wish WWE were like that all year round with their Divas Division having great storylines and matches instead of once in a blue moon.

Omackeral

Going back on topic, but staying with the agenda, my unpopular opinion is that I find the fandom among some here towards certain divas to be a bit creepy! The fascination with AJ Lee and Becky Lynch in particular. There, I said it.

connemara man

Not sure if unpopular but I think look/size is important. Ie Reigns look/size makes him the more impressive of the three in the Shield.

CSF

connemara man wrote: »

Not sure if unpopular but I think look/size is important. Ie Reigns look/size makes him the more impressive of the three in the Shield.

That's unpopular with me anyway

SureYWouldntYa

connemara man wrote: »

Not sure if unpopular but I think look/size is important. Ie Reigns look/size makes him the more impressive of the three in the Shield.

but then there's Matt Morgan and Nathan Jones

DM_7

connemara man wrote: »

Not sure if unpopular but I think look/size is important. Ie Reigns look/size makes him the more impressive of the three in the Shield.

He does look the more impressive physically, that in turn is why the WWE can book him the way they do, use him as the muscle, the powerful and dominant member. So what you are saying makes perfect sense. They couldn't realistically have Ambrose fill that role.

Edit: obviously an impressive looking guy will need some ability as a wrestler, entertainer as well

krudler

connemara man wrote: »

Not sure if unpopular but I think look/size is important. Ie Reigns look/size makes him the more impressive of the three in the Shield.

He definitely is the most "WWE" of the trio, I think Rollins has a good future ahead and Ambrose would make a great stable leader.

Insect Overlord

krudler wrote: »

He definitely is the most "WWE" of the trio, I think Rollins has a good future ahead and Ambrose would make a great stable leader.

Or an unstable leader. :pac:

connemara man

I literally typed out a really long rambling point about Reigns and my earlier post. Which i deleted. But maybe its him iv warmed to. All the lads in the Shield should be top guys one day. But it's all down to how they have been booked. One of the only good things WWE have done in a long time.

Angron

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

but then there's Matt Morgan and Nathan Jones

Or Giant Gonzalez and Khali.

rovert

Omackeral wrote: »

Going back on topic, but staying with the agenda, my unpopular opinion is that I find the fandom among some here towards certain divas to be a bit creepy! The fascination with AJ Lee and Becky Lynch in particular. There, I said it.

Never got the whole AJ thing personally. But in the case of Becky and in my defence :P she is legitimately one of the absolute best Wrestlers Ireland has ever produced male or female. She was better than most men on the indies in general. There were promotions on verge booking promotion themselves around her when she was just 19. I am honestly more interested in her Wrestling, personality and having known her than just her looks in all honesty. Also I am just excited she made a return to Wrestling as it was a real monkey on her back and she was really conflicted about it for the longest time.

I know a lot of people who are movers and shakers or people who would become movers and shakers who thought she was "the real deal" to even going to the extreme that she was the best Wrestler at the youngest age in the history of Wrestling putting her only second to Terry Gordy. She is cited as an influence by a lot of current indy women Wrestlers all based on a two year run with only a dozen or so matches making tape.

Perhaps you haven't seen her Wrestle and that fine. If you are bothered you can download her best match that I know of for $2.50:
https://www.clickwrestle.com/pro/88166/rebecca-knox-vs.-daizee-haze

2/3 falls match in SHIMMER that was building to the first ever Woman's 60 Iron Man match - which sadly didn't happen as she got hurt. A 19 year old was being trusted to deliver the goods in a 60 minute match for a high profile indy promotion think about that. She REALLY was that good in ring.

So there.

Omackeral

Serious women's wrestling to me is what what women's football is to most other blokes. It's just irrelevant in the grand schemes of things, for the most part. I see you know or knew Lynch/Knox on a personal level though, so can understand the support.

FWIW, Aj's famous promo against the Total Divas was brilliant viewing for me, only time I've ever properly took notice
of a females mic work.

Moneymaker

An File wrote: »

Or an unstable leader. :pac: