Unpopular wrestling opinions

Lord TSC

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

Genuinely not sure if this is unpopular or not but I've been decidedly underwhelmed by Paige since she won the title. She's young and promising obviously but right now she's more indicative of the lack of depth in the Divas division than a saviour for it.

Ince she won the title, the focus has nearly all been on Brie Bella and Alicia Fox. Paige has not developed one bit as a character as she has had no story, angle or whatever...

Scavenger XIII

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

Genuinely not sure if this is unpopular or not but I've been decidedly underwhelmed by Paige since she won the title. She's young and promising obviously but right now she's more indicative of the lack of depth in the Divas division than a saviour for it.

As much of a Paige fan as I am I'd have to agree she hasn't really gotten to show off since getting to the main roster, her debut in particular was abysmal.

Really though the same thing seems to have happened to a lot of people coming up from NXT lately, lots of crappy booking.

Moneymaker

The booking is more to blame then Paige is, imo.

Lord TSC

One I've been mulling over for a few days now.

I keep seeing people talking about potential MITB winners based on who could face Daniel Bryan when he returns. That "X can't win cause that wouldn't work against Bryan".

Honestly....Bryan shouldn't even been in consideration with regards what happens next in the title scene. In fact, I wouldn't mind if he wasn't in the title scene for a while now.

The entire point of his character over the last year was he was chasing the title, and on and off for months, his chase for the title was the main focus of the show. He got his Mania moment, and then proceeded to have a horrible title reign (not his fault, mind). But for the last year, Bryan has been chasing the title, won it, got screwed, chased the title, won it, got screwed....

For his characters sake, he could do with a non-title feud; a semi-heel turn vs Cena, another crack at Bray on the basis that his life has been too turbulent since he lost to him at the Rumble, a feud with Rollins based on how they were very similiar but Rollins sold out and Bryan didn't....there's plenty of stories there to keep him going.

Meanwhile, it would give other people a chance at a run at the title; Cesaro, with Heyman, could easily be at the top. Sheamus has been putting on some solid matches to be getting a top feud. Any of The Shield. Bray Wyatt.

There's a solid group of uppermids right now who are being hindered by Bryan's dominance at the top of the card. Bryan's popularity obviously doesn't need the title nessecarily while others could benefit hugely by getting that sort of push. It's time for Bryan to take a step back for a few months, and then hopefully he can resume his chase against a newly built top star, rather than a host of OAPs.

Mr.Saturn

As convoluted as it looks on paper, and as laborious it felt to explain it, I don't recall TNA's King of the Mountain ever actually offering up anything less than a solid-to-good match.

Machismo Fan

I never really understood why people thought it was complicated. Before you can hang the belt you need to score a fall. If you get pinned that's two minutes in the penalty box. And yeah they were nearly always good matches. I'm particularly a fan of the '05 and '07 matches.

leggo

It's an awful idea, even if the matches are entertaining. Think of great wrestling gimmick matches and stips:

Ladder match - Oooh people might fall off ladders or do crazy stuff!
Cage match - Oooh steel, blood, violence.
Hell In A Cell - BIGGER CAGE MATCH!

In comparison to...

King of the Mountain - Oooh...sin bins and balance?

gnfnrhead

Paige has been pretty forgetful, but that isn't her fault. WWE don't care about the Divas division at all. Had AJ's popularity not gone through the roof, she never would have gotten any more development beyond being the geeky girl. She gave an interview a couple of years ago (when she was with Ziggler) saying she felt she had been developed a good bit, and wanted WWE to do the same with someone else so that they could have a meaningful feud. Shortly after that they did just that with Kaitlyn and the two had the best Divas feud in a hell of a long time. When Total Divas took off, that was the end of WWE caring about anyone else. It was all about promoting Total Divas.

For Daniel Bryan, he is the most popular guy on the roster. You put your most popular guys at the top of the card. That's the title picture. The reason everybody mentions him when talking about the next champion is because Bryan is absolutly winning it back as soon as he can. Why waste Cesaro's first reign on a placeholder reign? That just hurts Cesaro. Cena, Orton, Kane etc. can all have a short meaningless reign and it won't hurt them. It will hurt someone like Cesaro because he won't get a fair chance. He would be just keeping the title warm.

The only issue with KOTM is how you win. I can see the logic they were going for in climbing to the top and hanging the belt in victory, but it works so much better when you take it down instead. Everything else was fine and the matches were usually pretty good at worst.

CSF

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

One I've been mulling over for a few days now.

I keep seeing people talking about potential MITB winners based on who could face Daniel Bryan when he returns. That "X can't win cause that wouldn't work against Bryan".

Honestly....Bryan shouldn't even been in consideration with regards what happens next in the title scene. In fact, I wouldn't mind if he wasn't in the title scene for a while now.

The entire point of his character over the last year was he was chasing the title, and on and off for months, his chase for the title was the main focus of the show. He got his Mania moment, and then proceeded to have a horrible title reign (not his fault, mind). But for the last year, Bryan has been chasing the title, won it, got screwed, chased the title, won it, got screwed....

For his characters sake, he could do with a non-title feud; a semi-heel turn vs Cena, another crack at Bray on the basis that his life has been too turbulent since he lost to him at the Rumble, a feud with Rollins based on how they were very similiar but Rollins sold out and Bryan didn't....there's plenty of stories there to keep him going.

Meanwhile, it would give other people a chance at a run at the title; Cesaro, with Heyman, could easily be at the top. Sheamus has been putting on some solid matches to be getting a top feud. Any of The Shield. Bray Wyatt.

There's a solid group of uppermids right now who are being hindered by Bryan's dominance at the top of the card. Bryan's popularity obviously doesn't need the title nessecarily while others could benefit hugely by getting that sort of push. It's time for Bryan to take a step back for a few months, and then hopefully he can resume his chase against a newly built top star, rather than a host of OAPs.

I don't think Bryan necessarily HAS to go right back into the title picture, but I think that he will, so it is important to manage that correctly.

If they're going a different route with Bryan without burying him, then fine, put the belt on someone else for a time, but I don't think the Daniel Bryan storyline would work without him going right back into the title picture after the way he lost it. He is surely going to come back to get that title back.

Ape Lincoln

Agree with the point on not putting the title on Cesaro as an interim measure pbut disagree that Bryan's position is holding ppl back vis-a-vis his 'dominance at the top of the card' as TeamShadow put it. In some ways, Bryan hasn't been given his shot at the top spot as he was saddled with a crap interim feud with Kane and an abundance of personal issues.

Fwiw, I only saw one TNA 'King....' match, think it was 2007. Can't remember much about it but I don't remember hating it that much. To be fair, some of WWE's cage and Cell matches have been very poor for a long time considering those thastrong l have gone on before them. There is a level strong of over-saturation with WWE gimmick matches that just hurts the gimmick and they oftentimes fail to make top singles matches special.

CSF

Ape Lincoln wrote: »

Agree with the point on not putting the title on Cesaro as an interim measure pbut disagree that Bryan's position is holding ppl back vis-a-vis his 'dominance at the top of the card' as TeamShadow put it. In some ways, Bryan hasn't been given his shot at the top spot as he was saddled with a crap interim feud with Kane and an abundance of personal issues.

Fwiw, I only saw one TNA 'King....' match, think it was 2007. Can't remember much about it but I don't remember hating it that much. To be fair, some of WWE's cage and Cell matches have been very poor for a long time considering those thastrong l have gone on before them. There is a level strong of over-saturation with WWE gimmick matches that just hurts the gimmick and they oftentimes fail to make top singles matches special.

In storyline terms, doesn't Bryan absolutely have to go back into the title picture once he comes back? Why would his character be willing to not go straight after what he lost after working so hard for.

rovert

I've probably seen Paige pre-WWE probably more than most here. Yes she has been wrestling since she was 13 or whatever but his parent's promotion WAW. Would had a ever specific style. Ring the size of a postage stamp and a lot of ring time being spent on telling the drunk punters around ringside to "shut it you slag."

She has never been the most assertive in the ring nor was she booked that way. Due to her youth and prettiness she was booked in matches where she just sold and squashed. The only matches Paige went 50/50 or more with someone were in matches with her mother Sweet Saraya.

Never really thought she improved hugely in WWE developmental. They fixed some minor mistakes but there were still things that were glaring to me the never seemed to be addressed. Namely her walk to the ring and how she projects herself in ring. In general at 21 she has seemed to have plateaued in her development as a Wrestler.

Insanely marketable and a good wrestler - her NXT Arrival match was pretty fab don't get me wrong but she have a fake rep of being a great wrestler just because she came from the indies.

gnfnrhead

rovert wrote: »

I've probably seen Paige pre-WWE probably more than most here. Yes she has been wrestling since she was 13 or whatever but his parent's promotion WAW. Would had a ever specific style. Ring the size of a postage stamp and a lot of ring time being spent on telling the drunk punters around ringside to "shut it you slag."

She has never been the most assertive in the ring nor was she booked that way. Due to her youth and prettiness she was booked in matches where she just sold and squashed. The only matches Paige went 50/50 or more with someone were in matches with her mother Sweet Saraya.

Never really thought she improved hugely in WWE developmental. They fixed some minor mistakes but there were still things that were glaring to me the never seemed to be addressed. Namely her walk to the ring and how she projects herself in ring. In general at 21 she has seemed to have plateaued in her development as a Wrestler.

Insanely marketable and a good wrestler - her NXT Arrival match was pretty fab don't get me wrong but she have a fake rep of being a great wrestler just because she came from the indies.

Compared to the average WWE Diva, she is great.

beakerjoe

She can actually wrestle unlike half of the Divas locker room.

Bounty Hunter

The great thing with Paige is although they havent really let her develop her character all that much since she has arrived they have let her and whoever her opponent is wrestle. I don't consider the Divas matches the P!ssbreak matches anymore, although that could be as much to do with there usually being a Rusev squash match (vs Zack Ryder most likely) or some other terrible segment (actually kinda like Rusev but wanna see him vs someone decent or at least different) on the show that I know is coming but having said that they are generally giving her and her opponents a bit more of a chance to have proper matches in ring

Moneymaker

I think the fact all her matches follow the same formula doesn't help. She gets beat up and bumps a ton, she suddenly locks in the PTO and wins.

And rovert is right, she's a good wrestler but she has a lot she can improve on.

I'd be happy to give her lessons. :pac::pac::pac:

bobby_says_hi

Anyone else notice that Paige only ever sells her face when she takes a move?

The problem with her is the same problem that comes literally every single time WWE has a Diva debut or return as champion without a storyline. She's already on the top. She's already achieved her goal. Fans haven't had a chance to get invested in her because they never saw her chase the title. It seems that WWE do this whenever they have a lack of strong heels for the Diva to face. People will often tout it as the girl failing to get over - but it's always the company's fault for not putting effort in

Look at Layla who had a similar problem when she returned. Her returning could have been a really good and well-written storyline with some good matches. But they put the belt on her immediately and chose to do nothing with her for three months. The thing is that Layla was seriously improved when she returned. Watch the matches she was having on Superstars while she was champion. And they loved her when she went to NXT - she got cheered over Paige. She had some really good babyface charisma and could easily have gotten over if they put effort into her. But when she disappears from TV for weeks at a time and never gets mic time or meaningful feuds then you can't blame fans for not caring. Layla had nobody to feud with once she had the title and Paige is the same. With AJ choosing to leave for so long, any excitement for a feud between her and Paige is dying down. They had to un-jobberify Alicia Fox to give her someone to feud with. Though lord knows why they've turned Summer Rae face when she could easily feud with Paige

Vision of Disorder

I think Paige has been sloppy in the ring at times since she came up to the main roster too though. The Paige Turner she won the title with looked horrendous and it was a terrible dropkick against Alicia Fox last Raw that actually prompted me to bring her up here originally. On the mic I find her very mild too which clashes badly with the character she portrays in the ring for me. Every time she does her little scream I cringe a bit.

All that said I would see a lot of potential in her and she is very young obviously. I'd still see her developing into a real asset over time.

Ape Lincoln

Does anyone else find it weird that Paige wrestles in Doc Martens? Those things are pretty heavy.

CastorTroy

Reading Matt Fowler's column on ign he said

Meanwhile, the word is that Vince doesn't think much of Adam Rose or Paige. And while I agree that Adam Rose has come off more grating than fun on RAW and Smackdown, Vince not appreciating Paige is a shame. And the reason nothing's been done to build up her character at all is pretty much due to the fact that Vince has never ever liked, or "gotten," pale gothic chicks with tattoos. See also: Daffney being released from WWE developmental years ago because Vince didn't understand her look or style. So Paige has been given no mic time and no video packages. Nothing to help her get over with the crowds or the viewers at home.

So you think this is a case of HHH being in charge of developmental and saying she's ready, only for Vince to disagree later?

Vision of Disorder

I think it's a case of her being ready for a main roster spot (which isn't saying much obviously but not intended as a slight) but not ready to replace AJ basically.

As for Adam Rose, I think he's done well, he seems pretty over to me with a gimmick that can't be taken that seriously. I'm not sure what more Vince or anybody else could expect. The cost of his Rosebuds might seem unjustifiable though if the tales of budget cuts are legit.

rovert

CastorTroy wrote: »

So you think this is a case of HHH being in charge of developmental and saying she's ready, only for Vince to disagree later?

Yes. Vince McMahon (and WWE Executive Producer and Triple H's political rival) like a type - Barbie. Vince McMahon is on record as saying Kelly Kelly is what other Divas should strive to be. Kevin Dunn was HUGELY into Ashley Massaro she was phoney alternative girl but still she was blonde, skinny with big boobs.

In Kaitlyn's shoot interview she says Triple H really liked her muscle look. But Vince wasn't a fan of that or her. And pushed the Kelly Kelly ideal onto her. Something she struggled with and ended up with an eating problem that took her off TV.

In fairness to Paige's detractors she isn't exactly reaching through the TV screen at fans.

JP Liz V1

So if Tyson Kidd and others had boob jobs Vince would push them to the moon

rovert

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

So if Tyson Kidd and others had boob jobs Vince would push them to the moon

Goldust offered in 1999. #neverforget

CastorTroy

rovert wrote: »

In fairness to Paige's detractors she isn't exactly reaching through the TV screen at fans.

But at the same time, she's in a catch 22 situation where she can't work on her tv character when she's not given the opportunity to work on it.
Out of all the divas, who's actually getting airtime with AJ gone and outside of the Total Divas? We have Alicia Fox throwing fits and Summer/Layla fighting over Fandango, while Emma is stuck with Santino.

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

So if Tyson Kidd and others had boob jobs Vince would push them to the moon

Not working for Big E at the moment. Maybe he needs to dye his hair.

rovert

CastorTroy wrote: »

But at the same time, she's in a catch 22 situation where she can't work on her tv character when she's not given the opportunity to work on it.
Out of all the divas, who's actually getting airtime with AJ gone and outside of the Total Divas? We have Alicia Fox throwing fits and Summer/Layla fighting over Fandango, while Emma is stuck with Santino.

Can't disagree with you. But I don't think she is making the best of her situation either. Perhaps she doesn't now how to. Perhaps she does know and is following very specific instructions from a producer (road agent) or another superior. But I've she her on the indies and NXT so she doesn't know/can't is the most likely reason.

She seems to be going for a Bret Hartesque presentation but Bret knew how to appeal to the crowd in this savy compelling, low key way. At moment she is just a leather jacket and a leglock. In fairness she is 21 and Bret more extensively pre-WWF.

Scavenger XIII

rovert wrote: »

In fairness to Paige's detractors she isn't exactly reaching through the TV screen at fans.

I've been trying to reach through the TV screen at her but it hasn't been working. :pac:

beakerjoe

I like Seth Rollins new look.... there I said it!

Chip Whitley

beakerjoe wrote: »

I like Seth Rollins new look.... there I said it!

:pac::pac::pac:

mrkiscool2

The Rock-Triple H feud was way better than the Rock-Austin feud.