Eoin Kelly Waterford

Mountainlad

teednab-el wrote: »

Listen now prince Im not letting this one go, This kind of sh**t annoys me. Reality is....

Cork are second in the roll of honour in All Ireland Senior Hurling titles won (30 All Irelands) and you are saying Cork is one of the weaker counties in hurling? Where are Waterford?

For years Waterford were one of the weaker counties in hurling and couldnt beat Cork in Munster. I lost count of the amount of times Cork hammered Waterford before they finally defeated them in Munster in 2002. This so called "weak" Cork side still managed to beat Waterford numerous times when Waterford were supposedly at their best with the greatest players ever and it eventually took a replay in the 2007 qualifiers to finally beat Cork in Croke Park which, Waterford have only done once.

How could you call the Cork team of 2003-2006 a weak team? There were one of the best teams of that era. They could have easily done 3 in a row after narrowly loosing the 2003 Final.

When Cork had good teams they have gone on and won All Irelands and even beat KILKENNY more than once something Waterford keep failing to do even with their so called greatest team.

Thats the facts calvin....dont fall into the trap.

I agree that the comment about weaker counties was petty and stupid, and generally I've noticed you seem to like Waterford.

One thing, and I know it's small and I'm not trying to derail the thread (though to be honest I think this topic could be wound up really at this stage), but I have heard several people talk about how Waterford have only beaten Cork once in Croke Park and it took ages to do it. The reality is that Cork have only beaten Waterford twice in Croke Park and the other game they had was a draw. It's gone to form everytime they have played there. We were beaten in Munster both years that Cork beat us in Croke Park, Cork having won Munster. In 2007, we beat Cork in Munster as well.

Other than that, I wouldn't argue with what your saying though don't feed the trolls is a motto we should all abide by.

calvin_zola

Mountainlad wrote: »

Other than that, I wouldn't argue with what your saying though don't feed the trolls is a motto we should all abide by.

I'm not trolling. Cork have been weaker than Waterford in the past very recent years 07 -> in my opinion, that other guy took it out of context and started talking about Corks historic achievements, something I would not take from them.

Mountainlad

calvin_zola wrote: »

I'm not trolling. Cork have been weaker than Waterford in the past very recent years 07 -> in my opinion, that other guy took it out of context and started talking about Corks historic achievements, something I would not take from them.

I wouldn't dispute that. But to be fair Calvin, you're hardly telling me you didn't know what kind of a response referring to Cork as a 'weaker county' was going to ellicit?

Gene Parmesan

A bit of personality / charisma re Kelly / Mullane is what the GAA / Championship needs, not everyone can be PC drones in the tipp / kilkenny mould

Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan wrote: »

A bit of personality / charisma re Kelly / Mullane is what the GAA / Championship needs, not everyone can be PC drones in the tipp / kilkenny mould

The only thing that counts in hurling is goals and points to be honest. Id take them any day over a fist pump.

Have great respect for Waterford and felt bad for them that they didn't secure the All Ireland over the last decade but i think that next time Mullane (a guy i have great time for), Kelly (not so much) and co decide to rub it in to opposition they might perhaps want to remember that they experienced some hardship and heavy defeats in the Waterford shirt the last few years and how bad they felt during those times.

Id much rather our PC drones that go out and play their own game.

Id like to point out we haven't always had choir boys in Tipp either in case some accuse me of bias. We have had managers coming out publicly slating the opposition before the ball had been thrown in. We also had hurlers high fiving each other where we have dished out heavy beatings to teams in finals and despite those hurlers being fantastic themselves and playing on a fantastic side i think for all their cockiness they will look back on their careers with the feeling that they could have won more and perhaps have regret about underestimating opposition in some cases.

teednab-el

Mountainlad wrote: »

teednab-el wrote: »

Listen now prince Im not letting this one go, This kind of sh**t annoys me. Reality is....

Cork are second in the roll of honour in All Ireland Senior Hurling titles won (30 All Irelands) and you are saying Cork is one of the weaker counties in hurling? Where are Waterford?

For years Waterford were one of the weaker counties in hurling and couldnt beat Cork in Munster. I lost count of the amount of times Cork hammered Waterford before they finally defeated them in Munster in 2002. This so called "weak" Cork side still managed to beat Waterford numerous times when Waterford were supposedly at their best with the greatest players ever and it eventually took a replay in the 2007 qualifiers to finally beat Cork in Croke Park which, Waterford have only done once.

How could you call the Cork team of 2003-2006 a weak team? There were one of the best teams of that era. They could have easily done 3 in a row after narrowly loosing the 2003 Final.

When Cork had good teams they have gone on and won All Irelands and even beat KILKENNY more than once something Waterford keep failing to do even with their so called greatest team.

Thats the facts calvin....dont fall into the trap.

I agree that the comment about weaker counties was petty and stupid, and generally I've noticed you seem to like Waterford.

One thing, and I know it's small and I'm not trying to derail the thread (though to be honest I think this topic could be wound up really at this stage), but I have heard several people talk about how Waterford have only beaten Cork once in Croke Park and it took ages to do it. The reality is that Cork have only beaten Waterford twice in Croke Park and the other game they had was a draw. It's gone to form everytime they have played there. We were beaten in Munster both years that Cork beat us in Croke Park, Cork having won Munster. In 2007, we beat Cork in Munster as well.

Other than that, I wouldn't argue with what your saying though don't feed the trolls is a motto we should all abide by.

In fairness, I still have huge respect for Waterford and I said it here before I want to see them winning the big prize and I have shouted for them in the past after Cork were knocked out of championship, I don't want to insult other genuine Waterford posters here like yourself, but it was a bit rich of Calvin Zola saying that Cork are a weak hurling county, yes they are not as good now as 2003-06 but every county goes through a bad period. There has been nothing between the two sides in all the games of the 00's. Fair enough about the Croke park comment, shouldnt have even brought it in to the equation.

teednab-el

calvin_zola wrote: »

Mountainlad wrote: »

Other than that, I wouldn't argue with what your saying though don't feed the trolls is a motto we should all abide by.

I'm not trolling. Cork have been weaker than Waterford in the past very recent years 07 -> in my opinion, that other guy took it out of context and started talking about Corks historic achievements, something I would not take from them.

The historic achievements in the 00's I highlighted was to show you why Cork weren't a weak side back then.

I agree after 2007, Cork have been second to Waterford and rightly so but in 2010 when the two sides met again, it was a close Munster final too and any of the two sides could have won the replay.

Gene Parmesan

Deleted User wrote: »

The only thing that counts in hurling is goals and points to be honest. Id take them any day over a fist pump.

Have great respect for Waterford and felt bad for them that they didn't secure the All Ireland over the last decade but i think that next time Mullane (a guy i have great time for), Kelly (not so much) and co decide to rub it in to opposition they might perhaps want to remember that they experienced some hardship and heavy defeats in the Waterford shirt the last few years and how bad they felt during those times.

Id much rather our PC drones that go out and play their own game.

Id like to point out we haven't always had choir boys in Tipp either in case some accuse me of bias. We have had managers coming out publicly slating the opposition before the ball had been thrown in. We also had hurlers high fiving each other where we have dished out heavy beatings to teams in finals and despite those hurlers being fantastic themselves and playing on a fantastic side i think for all their cockiness they will look back on their careers with the feeling that they could have won more and perhaps have regret about underestimating opposition in some cases.

Personalities excite neutrals (of which I'm one) and put bums on seats.

ShamoBuc

Gene Parmesan wrote: »

Personalities excite neutrals (of which I'm one) and put bums on seats.

And there's me tinking it was the skills of the game.
Maybe you should stay in and watch Graham Norton - sure he's a great personality.

pugw

Black Suir wrote: »

What exactly did he do wrong. There was only one terrace open on Sunday and there was many Waterford supporters in the town end terrace. He was only celebrating his goal and the Waterford supporters were celebrating with him. Most Waterford people love Eoin. Its only people with nothing better to do with their time thats making a thing out what he did. What do they want to make the game something like soccer and have fans segergated.

He was jeering Cian Dillon whom he had just fouled in order to provoke a reaction, look @ 5.55 of this http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=3320499 he went right into his face! If the shoe was on the other foot over the penalty and ye lost the match ye wouldnt be too happy! Kelly should have thanked his lucky stars for the free penalty, put his head down and went back into position, @ least thats what someone of good character would have done!

Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan wrote: »

Personalities excite neutrals (of which I'm one) and put bums on seats.

No Goals, points and honours put bums on seats. Christy Ring or DJ Carey never needed to showboat to draw a crowd.

Gene Parmesan

Deleted User wrote: »

No Goals, points and honours put bums on seats. Christy Ring or DJ Carey never needed to showboat to draw a crowd.

tipp GUNNER your username suggests otherwise, reminiscent of someone who has fallen under the spell of Sky Sports marketing re the Premier League. They never use personalities to market games, do they? Viera vs Keane, Fergie vs Wenger sound familiar?

The point I am making is that drama, disregarding its source is what we need. Kelly, Fitz, Mullane should be encouraged not criticized.

Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan wrote: »

tipp GUNNER your username suggests otherwise, reminiscent of someone who has fallen under the spell of Sky Sports marketing re the Premier League. They never use personalities to market games, do they? Viera vs Keane, Fergie vs Wenger sound familiar?

The point I am making is that drama, disregarding its source is what we need. Kelly, Fitz, Mullane should be encouraged not criticized.

Yes i do like soccer but for your information i have followed Arsenal and English football since 1990 and tbh i think i preferred football pre Premier League days. Vieira v Keane was a great battle but only going for 50/50 balls on the field. In hindsight the arguing in the tunnel is petty stuff and not something kids should have to view. I detest sky and their over-cooked coverage.

Anyways enough about Soccer. Drama for me is not amateur athletes acting the prat and fist pumping and goading each other. Drama is Ciaran Carey sprinting up the field to get a last gasp point in the Munster semi final in 1996. Drama is Offaly coming back from 5 points down the last 5 minutes and winning by 7. Drama is Mick Jacob scoring a cracker against KK the final puck of the ball in 2004. Drama can also be Seamus Darby stopping the drive for 5 against Kerry with a last gasp belter.

I dont mind pumping the fists to themselves or their teammates in celebration but rubbing it into the opposition is absolutely needless and not something you want the kids of today emulating in years to come. The rest of society should follow sport and not the other way around.

ShamoBuc

Gene Parmesan wrote: »

tipp GUNNER your username suggests otherwise, reminiscent of someone who has fallen under the spell of Sky Sports marketing re the Premier League. They never use personalities to market games, do they? Viera vs Keane, Fergie vs Wenger sound familiar?

The point I am making is that drama, disregarding its source is what we need. Kelly, Fitz, Mullane should be encouraged not criticized.

Wrong.

Kelly and Mullane would swap a chance of jumping and shouting in Davy or whoever face for an all Ireland medal i would imagine.

ShamoBuc

Deleted User wrote: »

Kelly and Mullane would swap a chance of jumping and shouting in Davy or whoever face for an all Ireland medal i would imagine.

...or even 2;)

afro man

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

he might be a toe rag but he is OUR toe rag ,MULLANE MULLANE ,WE ALL DREAM OF A TEAM OF JOHN MULLANES

jesus thats a thought 15 john mullanes and stop stealing soccer songs about the legend gary breen..

Fentdog84

On mature reflection 2 days later, I do now think both Kelly and Mullane were both way out of order. And i can see why people where annoyed by it. The only entertainment value is making themselves and us look like prats. Lets face it, you wont see Kilkenny players behaving themselves in that manner. So lets hope in future they stay more focused on the game, not the sideshows, and behave with dignity and respect for opponents.

Having said that, it wouldnt suprise me if Davy Fitz did actually start it all off by saying something or engineering something to distract them from the game. He does know the Waterford team and their personalities. And he comes from the Loughnane gene pool who were notorious for manipulation of opposing players and selectors. Read today in the paper that the Clare management team before the match would decide which selectors they would each rile and instigate conflict with. So Davy's claim that it was the Waterford management who riled up Mullane with falsified claims about what he said about him, I wouldnt take that as gospel, tbh.

mecco

pugw wrote: »

He was jeering Cian Dillon whom he had just fouled in order to provoke a reaction, look @ 5.55 of this http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=3320499 he went right into his face! If the shoe was on the other foot over the penalty and ye lost the match ye wouldnt be too happy! Kelly should have thanked his lucky stars for the free penalty, put his head down and went back into position, @ least thats what someone of good character would have done!

To be fair, he actually wasn't. He didn't say or move towards a Clare player a all. After Dillon chased the penalty in, he turned back out and was face to face with Kelly. (Aside: Dillon showed composure to simply shoulder and walk out the pitch without losing the head).

Don't misunderstand me, I still think Kelly shouldn't have done it for a raft of reasons, but it's wrong to say he was trying to antagonise Clare players.

Professey Chin

Deleted User wrote: »

No Goals, points and honours put bums on seats. Christy Ring or DJ Carey never needed to showboat to draw a crowd.

Ring was from an era where you had to go to matches to watch, not the case anymore and KK never really bring big crowds (except on AI day).
The reality of the situation now is if you want casual support and big crowds outside of the AI final you need excitement,drama,conflict and personalities for better or worse. Its the same in every sport

calvin_zola

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Ring was from an era where you had to go to matches to watch, not the case anymore and KK never really bring big crowds (except on AI day).
The reality of the situation now is if you want casual support and big crowds outside of the AI final you need excitement,drama,conflict and personalities for better or worse. Its the same in every sport

I agree, best example I think is snooker... serious loss of interest since the personalities of the past retired/died/moved on etc. No compromise on quality though.

pugw

mecco wrote: »

To be fair, he actually wasn't. He didn't say or move towards a Clare player a all. After Dillon chased the penalty in, he turned back out and was face to face with Kelly. (Aside: Dillon showed composure to simply shoulder and walk out the pitch without losing the head).

Don't misunderstand me, I still think Kelly shouldn't have done it for a raft of reasons, but it's wrong to say he was trying to antagonise Clare players.

Will agree to disagree with you on that one, showboating after copping a free goal like that, you'd expect it from an U12! Another issue was when the ref awarded maurice shannahan an awful soft free in the half forward line when he clearly dived, he started celebrating like he was after scoring a goal! Basically my point is ive no problem with them celebrating in an in your face kind of way when there is fair play involved but when their after getting scores by duping the ref like in the 2 incidents mentioned it doenst say a lot for them.

The Great Chinholio

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Ring was from an era where you had to go to matches to watch, not the case anymore and KK never really bring big crowds (except on AI day).
The reality of the situation now is if you want casual support and big crowds outside of the AI final you need excitement,drama,conflict and personalities for better or worse. Its the same in every sport

If a person needs a petty little sideshow to make the game of hurling of all games more exciting then hurling is just not for them. They should stick to 'the Only way is Essex' or similar crap for drama.

calvin_zola wrote: »

I agree, best example I think is snooker... serious loss of interest since the personalities of the past retired/died/moved on etc. No compromise on quality though.

:eek: You are making comparisons between Snooker and hurling??? Hurling doesn't need sideshows as its fast, intense and full of skill.

Snooker is like watching paint dry. I don't mind playing it but unless a young Jimmy White took on a young Alex Higgins or Ronnie O'Sullivan then it wouldn't be worth using up electricity to keep the TV running

calvin_zola

calvin_zola wrote: »

I agree, best example I think is snooker... serious loss of interest since the personalities of the past retired/died/moved on etc. No compromise on quality though.

Deleted User wrote: »

:eek: You are making comparisons between Snooker and hurling??? Hurling doesn't need sideshows as its fast, intense and full of skill.

Snooker is like watching paint dry. I don't mind playing it but unless a young Jimmy White took on a young Alex Higgins or Ronnie O'Sullivan then it wouldn't be worth using up electricity to keep the TV running

^^^^^^^^^^^^in essence what I said :rolleyes:

and stop over-reacting, I was simply agreeing with Chin that sport needs personalities, any sports. I didn't compare the sinking of a pink ball with the rattling of the net of a sliotar, so get over yourself.

calvin_zola

calvin_zola wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^in essence what I said :rolleyes:

and stop over-reacting, I was simply agreeing with Chin that sport needs personalities, any sports. I didn't compare the sinking of a pink ball with the rattling of the net of a sliotar, so get over yourself.

Yeah and we're saying hurling doesnt need 'big personalities' with even bigger egos and mouths.
The great players do it on the field and goals and points are all that counts. Hurling is perfect the way it is. it doesnt need eejits fist pumping in each others face after barely scraping a win. Snooker needs personalities because it is a boring tedious game. Soccer and alot of other sports are going that way. Its sad to watch.

Hurling though will still be passionate and exciting to watch even if every single hurler in Ireland has a poker face even if they were to put it over the bar the last poc to win the all ireland. It doesnt need to change and that is the beauty of it.

Dublin had a few big personalities the last few years in the football and the end result is when Dublin did climb the steps to take Sam Maguire last year there was few if any of them left on the panel.

pugw

pugw wrote: »

Will agree to disagree with you on that one, showboating after copping a free goal like that, you'd expect it from an U12! Another issue was when the ref awarded maurice shannahan an awful soft free in the half forward line when he clearly dived, he started celebrating like he was after scoring a goal! Basically my point is ive no problem with them celebrating in an in your face kind of way when there is fair play involved but when their after getting scores by duping the ref like in the 2 incidents mentioned it doenst say a lot for them.

Maurice Shanahan is an extremely talented hurler but his theatrics are absolutely disgusting. He must be 6'4 and is an extremely strong looking lad yet he cant seem to stay on his feet :rolleyes:

If refs don't start booking or even sending off guys for this carry on then i fear for the future of the game. What a cruel margin it would be to lose any game let alone an All Ireland due to cheating and Shanahan (with one or 2 others probably) is setting a horrible precedent if he keeps getting away with it.

calvin_zola

Deleted User wrote: »

Hurling though will still be passionate and exciting to watch even if every single hurler in Ireland has a poker face even if they were to put it over the bar the last poc to win the all ireland. It doesnt need to change and that is the beauty of it. .

come on now I don't think everyone could be as boring as you

calvin_zola

calvin_zola wrote: »

come on now I don't think everyone could be as boring as you

Thats a fairly pathetic insult. Note to yourself; must try harder next time.

Or better still maybe make your argument without resorting to childish nonsense. Then again your advocating it in this thread and that's pretty much why were having this argument in the first place

comeraghs

Jees Mr TippGunner! that's a fair old chip on the shoulder you carry towards Waterford! What did the Deise do to you?

solarith

Whoa, this thread is incredible. People have personalities, that's it. People can get annoyed or be placid regarding the matter, but in the end there's no point complaining because you didn't like something that happened. Many things happen which some like and some don't. I just don't understand why some people think this should be 'stamped out'.

The fact is if someone chooses to be offended by an act, it's your choice to be offended. It's other people's choice not to be offended. Basically that is that.

comeraghs

Cork & Tipp lads having a go at Waterford!!!!

Are ye afraid of us or something?

calvin_zola

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats a fairly pathetic insult. Note to yourself; must try harder next time.

Or better still maybe make your argument without resorting to childish nonsense. Then again your advocating it in this thread and that's pretty much why were having this argument in the first place

wow that hurt

calvin_zola

comeraghs wrote: »

Cork & Tipp lads having a go at Waterford!!!!

Are ye afraid of us or something?

Bothered by us more it would seem, fellas get very upset by other countys actions, should probably choose not to watch.... Fist pumping part of waterfords profile with years, dont think they will stop because a few old skool heads get upset over it

comeraghs

comeraghs wrote: »

Jees Mr TippGunner! that's a fair old chip on the shoulder you carry towards Waterford! What did the Deise do to you?

Nothing but respect for Waterford and its hurlers but i do think one or two should knuckle down and cut out the theatrics and stop playing to the gallery. The game of hurling wont be any richer for it imho.

The All Ireland is the only currency that matters at the end of the day. One-up-man-ship may seem funny at the time but id prefer to have a fraction of Kilkenny's success with robotic and placid individuals then score one over Davy Fitz. And for all Davy Fitz's 'passion' it would be better he grew up too and started behaving like a proper manager then an immature little man with an agenda about everything.

Bit of jostling and digging is part of the game fair enough but celebrating winning a free or some of the 'in your face' non sportsmanship displayed after the game Sunday is pretty pointless in the great scheme of things.

I suppose its a personal choice at the end of the day though.

calvin_zola

calvin_zola wrote: »

Bothered by us more it would seem, fellas get very upset by other countys actions, should probably choose not to watch.... Fist pumping part of waterfords profile with years, dont think they will stop because a few old skool heads get upset over it

I can remember Micheal Webster doing it to Brian Lohan years ago. At the time i was young and foolish and had a chuckle about it but looking back id have preferred he had even a slight bit of hurling in him then to be winding up one of the games great full backs over the years.

hurler on de ditch

Deleted User wrote: »

Maurice Shanahan is an extremely talented hurler but his theatrics are absolutely disgusting. He must be 6'4 and is an extremely strong looking lad yet he cant seem to stay on his feet :rolleyes:

If refs don't start booking or even sending off guys for this carry on then i fear for the future of the game. What a cruel margin it would be to lose any game let alone an All Ireland due to cheating and Shanahan (with one or 2 others probably) is setting a horrible precedent if he keeps getting away with it.

you know the song "your so full of s%&t your unbelievable ,suits you

Clareman

This thread is turning into a complete b!tch fest, by right everyone who insults/attacks another poster should be banned but there's so many on this thread I couldn't be bothered it's easier just to lock it