Monaghan United withdraw from LoI

That_Guy

The Board members present in Poland are there at their own expense.

Is it really necessary to have that included in the statement?

djpbarry

Just came across this on The Times' website - seems fairly out of the blue to me (although I'm a bit out of the loop here in London).

How is this not in breach of their license?

It's days like this I really do wonder if there is any point at all in caring about football in Ireland.

WallyGUFC

CSF wrote: »

Alternatively you could have not signed contracts you couldn't afford. Whatever about teams having debts come the end of the season, this is ****ing ridiculous

Bulls**t. They couldn't attract a main sponsor. They've done the right thing in that their creditors are getting paid. Would you prefer the league to finish with them, but creditors not getting paid? Same probably would have happened Galway United had it not been for GUST members digging deep into their pockets. I'd doubt Monaghan would have a fanbase the size of GUFC's. The league is a farce though. What would happen if the FAI stopped running the league?

GLaDOS

Things really not looking up for the league

stovelid

That_Guy wrote: »

Is it really necessary to have that included in the statement?

Obviously a bit touchy as the entire board must be there. Find it hard to believe that they all paid jtheir way.

djpbarry

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Bulls**t. They couldn't attract a main sponsor.

Then they should have cut their cloth accordingly. If they’ve only just now realised that they cannot afford to compete in the Premier Division, then how then they must have known before the season began that they had a bit of a struggle on their hands.

WallyGUFC wrote: »

They've done the right thing in that their creditors are getting paid. Would you prefer the league to finish with them...

I’d prefer clubs to pull their heads out of their arses, start learning how to run an organisation properly and for fans to stop blaming the FAI for absolutely everything.

Oat23

djpbarry wrote: »

It's days like this I really do wonder if there is any point at all in caring about football in Ireland.

It's because not enough cared that Monaghan are out of the league.

The_Kew_Tour

Its getting beyond a joke at this stage.

Nobody seems to give 2 ****s that this has happened.

Sad day for all involved in club and another **** day for league.

Who is next?:(

djpbarry

Oatesy23 wrote: »

It's because not enough cared that Monaghan are out of the league.

I don’t know what you mean?

kippy

stovelid wrote: »

Obviously a bit touchy as the entire board must be there. Find it hard to believe that they all paid jtheir way.

I suspect they all paid their way, but will be getting expenses reimbursed on return - who knows....
Does anyone have any links to financial information about the renumeration and expenses of the FAI board members and senior staff?

dfx-

Des wrote: »

Roddy Collins.

Never relegated:pac:

Cardinal Richelieu

Will this mean that Roddy can now concentrate on his political career with Sinn Fein?

CSF

WallyGUFC wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

Alternatively you could have not signed contracts you couldn't afford. Whatever about teams having debts come the end of the season, this is ****ing ridiculous

Bulls**t. They couldn't attract a main sponsor. They've done the right thing in that their creditors are getting paid. Would you prefer the league to finish with them, but creditors not getting paid? Same probably would have happened Galway United had it not been for GUST members digging deep into their pockets. I'd doubt Monaghan would have a fanbase the size of GUFC's. The league is a farce though. What would happen if the FAI stopped running the league?

If you haven't got a sponsor to pay wages, don't sign players to contracts assuming everything will go to plan. This is an absolute joke regardless of whether if its the only choice they had at this point in time. It should never have come to this.

Cardinal Richelieu

dfx- wrote: »

Never relegated:pac:

He has some record for picking clubs that wind up or have serious money troubles when he leaves them.

kippy

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

He has some record for picking clubs that wind up or have serious money troubles when he leaves them.

No moreso than Harry Redknapp in a few cases........
That being said, if the board of a club allow the manager to get the club into this much trouble then need to be questioned.

djpbarry

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

He has some record for picking clubs that wind up or have serious money troubles when he leaves them.

I’d love to invoke “correlation does not imply causation”, but...

HyperSkypeWiper

Never a dull moment, but this incident has annoyed me more than most tbh.

I spend half my time banging on to mates about how they should support LoI, and I've actually gotten through to a few. But my god, what is the point? :mad:

OBVIOUSLY, they're part of the problem, but I don't blame barstoolers ignoring the league when shíte like this goes on. How can you expect to attract new fans when the cúnts at the top evidently dont give a damn. Delaney is a disgrace.

ShamoBuc

Very sad news about Monaghan - but it was in the pipeline. Thought they might be able to see out the season but it wasn't to be. Hopefully the rest of the clubs can at least progress through the rest of the season without further issues.

CSF

HyperSkypeWiper wrote: »

Never a dull moment, but this incident has annoyed me more than most tbh.

I spend half my time banging on to mates about how they should support LoI, and I've actually gotten through to a few. But my god, what is the point? :mad:

OBVIOUSLY, they're part of the problem, but I don't blame barstoolers ignoring the league when shíte like this goes on. How can you expect to attract new fans when the cúnts at the top evidently dont give a damn. Delaney is a disgrace.

To be fair, they ARE the problem. Scapegoating the FAI for people's laziness is merely an excuse. We as a nation do not well attend any sport outside of the big events.

micks

dreamers75 wrote: »

Thats some cracking journalism lads.....

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/EuroExperience/uefaorg/WhatUEFAis/01/80/54/03/1805403_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Sure once the FAI gives out licences to LSL clubs we can keep the National team.

Would be ****ing hilarious to see an LSL clubs finances

Might be a few more LOI clubs in trouble if LSL clubs opened their books up
Plenty LOI clubs have left bills where they have trained.

Zebra3

djpbarry wrote: »

Just came across this on The Times' website - seems fairly out of the blue to me (although I'm a bit out of the loop here in London).

How is this not in breach of their license?

Of course it is.

kksaints

Big shame to see the Mons go out. Its cruelly ironic that having spent so long in the 1st division that when they the finally get promoted they go bust. Hoping no other clubs suffer massive financial problems during the season but that wont happen.

djpbarry

CSF wrote: »

To be fair, they ARE the problem. Scapegoating the FAI for people's laziness is merely an excuse. We as a nation do not well attend any sport outside of the big events.

Why should they bother? If clubs are going to pack up mid-season, why bother supporting them?

Zebra3 wrote: »

Of course it is.

So, forgive my ignorance, but there are no legal repercussions here? Monaghan can just decide they’re not playing anymore and they’re all going home?

djpbarry

kksaints wrote: »

Big shame to see the Mons go out. Its cruelly ironic that having spent so long in the 1st division that when they the finally get promoted they go bust.

How is it ironic? It’s not irony, it’s stupidity.

Corholio

djpbarry wrote: »

Why should they bother? If clubs are going to pack up mid-season, why bother supporting them?
So, forgive my ignorance, but there are no legal repercussions here? Monaghan can just decide they’re not playing anymore and they’re all going home?

Because we know when clubs are gonna pack up, right? I don't support a team because they're the most financially stable.

aidan24326

stovelid wrote: »

Obviously a bit touchy as the entire board must be there. Find it hard to believe that they all paid jtheir way.

No doubt they'll be claiming plenty of expenses.

And as much as JD may be an overpaid muppet, he can't force people through the turnstiles at LOI grounds. More could be done to market and promote the games alright. But right now the crowds just aren't enough to justify a professional league. What was Monaghan United's average home gate? 300 or 400 maybe? Imo you'd need regular home crowds of at least 2,000 to justify being a professional club, and only the likes of Bohs, Rovers and maybe Derry can do that.

Corholio

aidan24326 wrote: »

No doubt they'll be claiming plenty of expenses.

And as much as JD may be an overpaid muppet, he can't force people through the turnstiles at LOI grounds. More could be done to market and promote the games alright. But right now the crowds just aren't enough to justify a professional league. What was Monaghan United's average home gate? 300 or 400 maybe? Imo you'd need regular home crowds of at least 2,000 to justify being a professional club, and only the likes of Bohs, Rovers and maybe Derry can do that.

*cough*Cork*cough*

kksaints

djpbarry wrote: »

How is it ironic? It’s not irony, it’s stupidity.

They spend all those years in the graveyard while teams that are similiar to them such as Kilkenny and Kildare drop out. Then when they are out of there they go bust. Ironic might be the wrong choice of word but it is cruel on their fans.
What happens to them now I wonder? Back to the local league in Monaghan is it?

Oat23

aidan24326 wrote: »

No doubt they'll be claiming plenty of expenses.

And as much as JD may be an overpaid muppet, he can't force people through the turnstiles at LOI grounds. More could be done to market and promote the games alright. But right now the crowds just aren't enough to justify a professional league. What was Monaghan United's average home gate? 300 or 400 maybe? Imo you'd need regular home crowds of at least 2,000 to justify being a professional club, and only the likes of Bohs, Rovers and maybe Derry can do that.

Have Bohs had more than 2,000 at a game this season outside of games against Shams? Their fanbase has shrunk considerably since they came close to folding.

Cork, Derry, Sligo Rovers, Shamrock Rovers and Pats can/do average 2000+.

djpbarry

Corholio wrote: »

Because we know when clubs are gonna pack up, right?

If they were run properly then they wouldn’t pack up (or at least only in exceptional circumstances) – that’s the point. These situations are almost always entirely avoidable.

kksaints wrote: »

Ironic might be the wrong choice of word but it is cruel on their fans.

Yes, fair enough, I would agree with that.

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Cork, Derry, Sligo Rovers, Shamrock Rovers and Pats can/do average 2000+.

There’s no way Pats average over 2,000 and I’d be surprised if Sligo do either.

GLaDOS

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Have Bohs had more than 2,000 at a game this season outside of games against Shams?

This season home crowds have generally been between 1,000 and 1,500 for us.

djpbarry

ScienceNerd wrote: »

This season home crowds have generally been between 1,000 and 1,500 for us.

I would imaging they'd be similar for Pats.

kksaints

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Have Bohs had more than 2,000 at a game this season outside of games against Shams? Their fanbase has shrunk considerably since they came close to folding.

Cork, Derry, Sligo Rovers, Shamrock Rovers and Pats can/do average 2000+.

Pats average is around 1500 I think. Derrys support also seems poor enough this year.

Corholio

djpbarry wrote: »

If they were run properly then they wouldn’t pack up (or at least only in exceptional circumstances) – that’s the point. These situations are almost always entirely avoidable.
Yes, fair enough, I would agree with that.
There’s no way Pats average over 2,000 and I’d be surprised if Sligo do either.

Yes but your point is why follow a team if their going to pack up. You follow a team because they're your local team, if they go out of business then of course it's bad management of the club etc.

BigBrownBear

Its very disheartening for LOI supporters and I've spent all day thinking about this...Ireland hardly got a look in. But I'll be turning my attention to the game shortly.
FAI have a lot to answer for about giving licences to clubs, who then cant even last barely more than half a season.
Monaghan seem to have been flagging financial difficulties for a while.
" We're looking for a sponsor....We're still looking for a sponsor......We're hopeful of a sponsor......We couldn't find a sponsor and are pulling out of the LOI "
I don't believe its in the best interest of the league though for the FAI to bail out clubs in these positions

djpbarry

Corholio wrote: »

Yes but your point is why follow a team if their going to pack up. You follow a team because they're your local team, if they go out of business then of course it's bad management of the club etc.

Yeah, sure. But the point here is that the league is trying to attract fans while we have clubs dropping out of the league mid-season – it’s not exactly good PR. People in Wexford (or wherever) aren’t going to go to the trouble of building an attachment to their local club if they think there’s a reasonable chance it won’t exist in a few years.

BigBrownBear wrote: »

FAI have a lot to answer for about giving licences to clubs, who then cant even last barely more than half a season.

Absolutely – it’s mind-boggling.

Oat23

djpbarry wrote: »

If they were run properly then they wouldn’t pack up (or at least only in exceptional circumstances) – that’s the point. These situations are almost always entirely avoidable.
Yes, fair enough, I would agree with that.
There’s no way Pats average over 2,000 and I’d be surprised if Sligo do either.

Pats and Derry are can average, Rovers, Shams and Cork are do average. If Pats keep playing good football and turn the draws into wins the attendance will keep growing.

_blank_

FAI : Everything is fine

Pinturicchio

dreamers75 wrote: »

Open to correction to but the league fees dont include the refs fees.

You're right. Then there are also fines paid to the FAI for red cards etc.

_blank_

Pinturicchio wrote: »

You're right. Then there are also fines paid to the FAI for red cards etc.

and fines for slagging RTE.

Witchie

@djpbarry How dare you sprout s***e when its clear you know nothing about the situation. We signed contracts for players and only marginally increased our budget from the first division costs on the basis that we would have that money. We had sponsors willing to come on board only to pull out at the last minute, most citing the way that the FAI run the league as the reason.

We had in our budget predicted an increase on the gates which did in the most part happen until then we played Bray and there were just over 100 people there.

Add in the fact that 2 of our biggest potential gates (Derry and Shamrock Rovers) were moved to week days and then this 2 week break, have all meant that the revenue coming in was reduced.

There are other factors including people who owe us money not paying which would have kept us going for another few weeks until we could get a good home gate (our next home game was to be against UCD so wouldnt have brought in much).

But the club thought it was only fair to our creditors that we pull out now and stand a chance of paying them all off.

I apologise if anyone is upset that their team's points have dropped or that they wont get a fricking Mondog but for me this is akin to a family member dying so excuse me if I dont really give a flying f*** what you want to moan about.

super_furry

Des wrote: »

and fines for slagging RTE.

And fines for chanting against the chief pisshead Delaney.

WallyGUFC

The league overall is a joke. Salthill and Mervue get horrendous crowds, nowhere near enough to grow nevermind be sustainable in the long term. Prize money is awful, especially considering that spoofer's wages. Galway United never really had youth teams, not as long as I've been supporting them anyway. There are only 5 truly sustainable clubs, mostly around the Dublin area, and unless you have a sugardaddy or are based in an urban area you have no chance. It was also a farce that Monaghan got a licence considering the state of Gortakeegan. Same could be said about United Park, Carlisle Grounds etc.

Colonialboy

any crowd that do anything to keep that clown roddy Collins still involved in football , deserve everything they get. And i include my own club CorkCity.
I feel sorry for monaghan but hopefully this will mean the end of Roddy Collins...
people need to see the connection between our ****e performance in poland and the fact clowns like roddy collins can make a living and a career in the league of ireland

djpbarry

Witchie wrote: »

We signed contracts for players and only marginally increased our budget from the first division costs on the basis that we would have that money.

And the money didn't materialise. Therein lies the problem with football. Any other business and that model would be regarded as madness, but for some reason people make excuses for it when it comes to football.

Zebra3

djpbarry wrote: »

So, forgive my ignorance, but there are no legal repercussions here? Monaghan can just decide they’re not playing anymore and they’re all going home?

Delaney is thinking about docking them six points.

geeky

djpbarry wrote: »

And the money didn't materialise. Therein lies the problem with football. Any other business and that model would be regarded as madness, but for some reason people make excuses for it when it comes to football.

I would have to take issue with that, based on experience. If you're selling one product (in this case, Div1 football) and, all of a sudden, you're in a position to sell a more desirable one (Premiership football) through the same channel, most businesspeople would expect an increase in customer demand, and accept an increase in costs to meet it.

Where clubs fall down is overestimating the increased demand (which, from limited knowledge, appears to be the case at Monaghan) or entering long-term commitments based on the assumption that the better product will always be there: Leeds and CL football springs to mind.

djpbarry

geeky wrote: »

Where clubs fall down is overestimating the increased demand...

...combined with absolutely no contingency and a complete absence of medium to long-term planning.

kippy

geeky wrote: »

I would have to take issue with that, based on experience. If you're selling one product (in this case, Div1 football) and, all of a sudden, you're in a position to sell a more desirable one (Premiership football) through the same channel, most businesspeople would expect an increase in customer demand, and accept an increase in costs to meet it.

Where clubs fall down is overestimating the increased demand (which, from limited knowledge, appears to be the case at Monaghan) or entering long-term commitments based on the assumption that the better product will always be there: Leeds and CL football springs to mind.

There is fcuk all difference in "demand" between 1 and 2 divisions........Attendances dont magicilly go up when clubs get into a higher division playing attractive ties against shels and bohs.......

CSF

kippy wrote: »

There is fcuk all difference in "demand" between 1 and 2 divisions........Attendances dont magicilly go up when clubs get into a higher division playing attractive ties against shels and bohs.......

We'd bring a bigger away crowd than Mons' home crowd so that does make a very big difference.