Smashing Pumpkins - Oceania

Vudgie

Has anyone bought the album yet?

What are the initial reactions...it appears to be getting great reviews.


P.S I am aware a more worthwhile thread would contain my own views, but I hope to have a listen this evening and then report!

Malice

I didn't even know they were releasing a new album. I won't hold out much hope for it since I haven't been impressed by anything they've done in years. Still though, it'd be great if it did turn out to be a return to their mid-nineties peak.

Catari Jaguar

Saw them perform the title track there at a European festival a couple of weeks ago. Just gorgeous, so excited about the album

Catari Jaguar

Malice wrote: »

I didn't even know they were releasing a new album. I won't hold out much hope for it since I haven't been impressed by anything they've done in years. Still though, it'd be great if it did turn out to be a return to their mid-nineties peak.

Machina is from 2000 and some of their best ever tracks are on it.

SilverScreen

I was very reluctant about listening to this album considering the mess that was Teargarden By Kaleidyscope and the painfully average Zeitgeist. That said this album isn't too bad, their best since Machina anyway, but still it's not good enough. What the hell happened? Billy used to be able to write amazing songs and now he's churning out material that sounds so pale in comparison to the likes of Gish, Siamese Dream, Adore, Pisces Iscariot and even their early non-album tracks. Every release from Billy since Machina has disappointed me, although perhaps this album less so.

There are however some decent songs on this album, namely 'The Celestials', 'Glissandra' and 'Inkless'. The main riff in 'Inkless' is very reminiscent of early 90's Pumpkins songs like 'Hummer' which is kind of cool. There are also plenty of forgettable and sometimes cringe-worth moments on the album which I was expecting anyway. Also it's just not the same without Jimmy's drumming.

I really wish Billy would just retire the Smashing Pumpkins name and release this material under his own name, I would respect him a lot more for it. I think the mistake he's making is that he's trying to give the fans what they want instead of what he wants, which is something that's always doomed to fail

Malice

Catari Jaguar wrote: »

Machina is from 2000 and some of their best ever tracks are on it.

I'd have to respectfully disagree. The only track I can recall definitely liking off it was Heavy Metal Machine. I think there's a quieter song on there that I liked as well but I can't recall the name. Mellon Collie (released in 1995) was their creative high point for me.

Out of curiosity what songs do you think are worth listening to off Machina?

Richy06

Having listened to this once last night, I was pleasantly surprised by the first couple of tracks. But the album takes a serious dive towards the latter half and just kind of plods to a finish. Still better than Zeitgeist from a sonic and song writing perspective, but I dunno what the reviewers who're lauding it are listening to.

EyesClosed

Just gave it a listen, not the best, but better. I did really enjoy some tracks, such as Oceania and The Chimera.

Edit - Been listening to it a lot today and I am now hooked on it

Den_M

Malice wrote: »

I'd have to respectfully disagree. The only track I can recall definitely liking off it was Heavy Metal Machine. I think there's a quieter song on there that I liked as well but I can't recall the name. Mellon Collie (released in 1995) was their creative high point for me.

Out of curiosity what songs do you think are worth listening to off Machina?

Machina 2 has better songs than the first in my opinion. Was released for free not long after Machina.

I quite like the new album, maybe a bit too much organ/synth in parts (a bit Passion Pit-y) but there's some great songs there.

stateofflux

its just meh to me.. i liked one or two of the slower songs but overall there isn't any real top class tunes on it that are up with the classic stuff. the drumming is missing the character and dynamics of chamberlain big time. machina did have way better tunes (even though it was an average album)

Malice

It's a bit off-topic but has anyone listened to any of Jimmy Chamberlin's recordings with other bands? I'd be curious to know how they compare to what he did with the Pumpkins.

Den_M

Yep, I have. The Jimmy Chamberlin Complex are great. Here's one of their more known songs:

Billy guest sings on another of their songs, Loki Cat. If you wanna check that out.

The songs are naturally more centered around the drums than with your average band, with Jimmy being the famous one if the group. Their guitarist, plays some nice stuff and the singer (also named Billy, strangely) has a nice enough voice. Jimmy can really let go and show his drum chops, amazing fills and really imaginative and complicated beats.

I think he needed to get away from the Pumpkins. He knew it had lost something and he wasnt going to be able to express himself there anymore.

Richy06

Yeah that JCE album is pretty good. The Zwan stuff was awful. I don't really know much about anything else he's been involved in though to be honest.

Den_M

I liked Mary Star of the Sea but I'm a complete SP freak to be honest so I can't be trusted to be impartial

I think writing three great consecutive albums like Gish, Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie can get peoples expectation up to mad levels and anything that follows will be judged very harshly. I started listening to them properly in 1998 when Adore was released, and it's my favourote album by any band. The record that makes you fall for a band will always be special so I can see how someone that was introduced through one of the first three would feel the same.

Billy is such an odd character, I can see how some people hate the man. But there's a lot to him.

Mushy

Aaah the Jimmy Chamberlin Complex, gutted they pulled out of Oxegen in 06, then even moreso gutted when I couldn't make the Whelans show.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Catari Jaguar

Malice wrote: »

I'd have to respectfully disagree. The only track I can recall definitely liking off it was Heavy Metal Machine. I think there's a quieter song on there that I liked as well but I can't recall the name. Mellon Collie (released in 1995) was their creative high point for me.

Out of curiosity what songs do you think are worth listening to off Machina?

It goes back to being distorted and grimey, they got a bit dreamy there...

I like, in particular, Everlasting Gaze, Try Try Try, Rainbows + Sunshowers, Stand Inside Your Love and I also Saturnine & Lucky 13 off Machina II

Lenny5

This is a great album. 90% of the reviews are extremely positive and that is totally justified. You have to give Billy Corgan his due on this effort. He has been slammed and yet he doesn't give up and I am delighted that he has put out an album that shuts the haters up. People who are stuck in the 90s will be left behind because like it or not The Pumpkins are here to stay. The new line up have just started to gel and this is only the beginning. Jimmy Chamberlain wanted to do a greatest hits tour, take the easy way out and cash in and Im sure after listening to this album he is regretting ever losing faith in Billy Corgans ability.

jpm4

Lenny5 wrote: »

delighted that he has put out an album that shuts the haters up. People who are stuck in the 90s will be left behind because like it or not The Pumpkins are here to stay.

People like Billy Corgan? If anyone is stuck in the 90s it is him, he seems to have a mega chip on his shoulder that the Pumpkins are not multi platinum selling megastars anymore. I respect his abilities as a musician and songwriter but soldiering on under the Pumpkin's name just seems embarrassing now.

Lenny5

jpm4 wrote: »

People like Billy Corgan? If anyone is stuck in the 90s it is him, he seems to have a mega chip on his shoulder that the Pumpkins are not multi platinum selling megastars anymore. I respect his abilities as a musician and songwriter but soldiering on under the Pumpkin's name just seems embarrassing now.

Sorry but have to disagree with you.The one thing that Corgan hates is people who want to relive the 90s. He has proven that by barely playing any of the hits from back then live anymore. It would've been so much easier for him to go out and play the greatest hits tour and cash the cheque but he has totally rejected that. As he said he doesn't want to be a heritage act! He wants to create music that's relevant and has an impact today and with Oceania he has accomplished that. The whole thing about the name is nonsense. Billy Corgan is The Smashing Pumpkins, his band his songs he can do as he pleases, he owes nothing to anybody.

I agree that he has a massive chip on his shoulder and he comes across as arrogant and egotistical but hes always been like that even at the height of his success. I presume you've heard the album do you not think its at least a step in the right direction?

jpm4

The one thing that Corgan hates is people who want to relive the 90s. He has proven that by barely playing any of the hits from back then live anymore. It would've been so much easier for him to go out and play the greatest hits tour and cash the cheque but he has totally rejected that. As he said he doesn't want to be a heritage act!

Have to disagree with you there - just looking at one very recent concert:

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-smashing-pumpkins/2012/parque-da-bela-vista-lisbon-portugal-43dffb6f.html

Plenty of hits and a bias towards Mellon Collie and Simese Dream. Certainly crowd pleasing anyways.

The whole thing about the name is nonsense. Billy Corgan is The Smashing Pumpkins, his band his songs he can do as he pleases, he owes nothing to anybody.

You're right in one respect - it is his band and his songs. But the credibilty of the whole thing is seriously strained IMO with the departure of the original lineup (especially Jimmy), a flop of a solo record and other band in between the 2 incarnations of the Pumpkins, and also Billy doing a complete 180 on his reasons for splitting the band in the first place. Initially it was something along the lines of the band not being relevant anymore, now apparently it's all James Iha's fault or something. I also hope it's not too wanky to suggest that some intangible quality - the timing, art, commerce etc all coming together to produce something great like Mellon Collie - is simply not there.

If the whole point is to break new ground then why hold onto a name that comes with so much baggage?

I presume you've heard the album do you not think its at least a step in the right direction?

Heard some of it, will check out some more. He is still mile ahead of most as a songwriter and guitar player, but I feel the same problems are there that was on Machina 2 - overproduced, somewhat syrupy feel to the whole thing. It just doesn't give the punch of the Pumpkins at their best. But still not bad.