Italy v Ireland, Poznan, KO 7:45pm

JerryHandbag

From Twitter (Conor McNamara)

"Trapattoni confirms that some players have told him they will be retiring from international football. Says now is too early to name them."

Given & Duff I'd say.

Ganymede Glow

I can make my peace with Trapattoni if he brings in a new team for the WC Qualifiers. If he continues with a 4-4-2 with said players then that's it for me. The under age kids on the continent can get around it blindfolded, it's a shocking formation to play with good players, it's inexplicable with average players.

Our footballers are not brought up to play the old Italian way, the Italians don't even play that way anymore, it's the stuff of relics. If he can bring fresh faces in and start being flexible with them I'd be happy to continue with him. Will he? I doubt it.

bookie basher

i see people saying we underperformed, but i think the level of performance is no different from qualifying, expect in this competition the opposition took their chances.
We gave up countless chances in qualifying despite us supposedly being a solid side and our ball retention has been diabolical for ages.
Long ball football has been completely found out in international football for a long time yet ourselves & england continue to hoof it up the field when put under any pressure, will we ever learn?

carbon nanotube

i said about 3 weeks ago its the worst Irish side i ever seen and i got fobbed off by everyone.

and now its all bitching about the team..

football eh.

not traps fault he has average players, jose could manage them and they would not be much better.

Ganymede Glow

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

I can make my peace with Trapattoni if he brings in a new team for the WC Qualifiers. If he continues with a 4-4-2 with said players then that's it for me.

This post will make Trappatoni change his ways, I feel it.

How did you meet?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

I'm no Kevin Doyle fan, but he was our best player during this horror show. How many free kicks did he win??

population

Renn wrote: »

Up to his eyes in a QF.

Lets just say that spending 1.4 million euro in a cigarette shop on 'presents' is a less than believable tale and the magistrates smell blood on this one. I have always been a big Gigi fan but he is well and truly screwed on this

noodler

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

I can make my peace with Trapattoni if he brings in a new team for the WC Qualifiers. If he continues with a 4-4-2 with said players then that's it for me. The under age kids on the continent can get around it blindfolded, it's a shocking formation to play with good players, it's inexplicable with average players.

Its a tough one.

The 11 players you want dropped got us to the play-offs in our last two campaigns.

steelcityblues

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I'm no Kevin Doyle fan, but he was our best player during this horror show. How many free kicks did he win??

How many times did he dive, you mean?

carbon nanotube

carbon nanotube wrote: »

i said about 3 weeks ago its the worst Irish side i ever seen and i got fobbed off by everyone.

Really??

Some posts are just absurd on here.

Ganymede Glow

noodler wrote: »

Its a tough one.

The 11 players you want dropped got us to the play-offs in our last two campaigns.

I meant some new players.

bookie basher

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

I can make my peace with Trapattoni if he brings in a new team for the WC Qualifiers. If he continues with a 4-4-2 with said players then that's it for me. The under age kids on the continent can get around it blindfolded, it's a shocking formation to play with good players, it's inexplicable with average players.

Our footballers are not brought up to play the old Italian way, the Italians don't even play that way anymore, it's the stuff of relics. If he can bring fresh faces in and start being flexible with them I'd be happy to continue with him. Will he? I doubt it.

i agree with what your saying, for a start he has got to bring in new players, he has to put more emphasis on ball retention as well, if he does neither and picks the same players and continues with this system of his then the crowd will turn on him if he gets off to bad start in world cup qualifying

devotional1993

Surreal watching Steve Staunton analyzing the Irish game on BBC earlier-nearly felt he should be back in instead of Trap!

Corholio

steelcityblues wrote: »

How many times did he dive, you mean?

Christ. No credit at all eh? He was fouled by Corluka countless times.

Seaneh

population wrote: »

Yeah that is all about to be destroyed with the Calcioscomesse investigations. He is up to his eyes in it

No he's not.

Banjaxed82

His severance pay would be an issue but a loss to Germany (highly likely) and a loss to Sweden (probable) next march will be a different kettle of fish. The attendances at aviva are bad enough. I can only imagine what they would be like if those results came to fruition. Money talks in many different ways. Shame if it has to come to that though.

steelcityblues

Corholio wrote: »

Christ. No credit at all eh? He was fouled by Corluka countless times.

Doing a poor man's Ashley Young most of the time - he used to not be like that, and it was cringeworthy to watch.

bookie basher

managers like trappatoni, houllier, rehaggel know the score, people will tolerate dull football if its successful, dull football and no success means the sack or supporters up in arms

[-0-]

JerryHandbag wrote: »

From Twitter (Conor McNamara)

"Trapattoni confirms that some players have told him they will be retiring from international football. Says now is too early to name them."

Given & Duff I'd say.

Add Dunne to the list.

djpbarry

Ardent wrote: »

It's not Trapattoni's fault he only has sub-standard players at his disposal. I think he worked a mircacle to get us to this tournament in the first place.

Beating Armenia and Estonia could hardly be described as a miracle.

LuckyLloyd

djpbarry wrote: »

Beating Armenia and Estonia could hardly be described as a miracle.

Ah dear. The three campaigns before Trapp takes over we don't even achieve a play off spot. Then he comes in, achieves a play off and qualification - and it's all about how "weak" our qualification groups were.

And now he should be sacked after losing three games where we were clear to huge betting underdogs against one of the best sides ever along with two top 10 nations.

Some people will never be happy. And the whole 'but I'd rather we played good football no matter what the result, at least I'd go and see the games' line is ignorant of our history. Remember the Giles and Hand reigns? Played good football, lost. Games were either in Dalymount or with empty seats in Landsdowne...

Corholio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah dear. The three campaigns before Trapp takes over we don't even achieve a play off spot. Then he comes in, achieves a play off and qualification - and it's all about how "weak" our qualification groups were.

And now he should be sacked after losing three games where we were clear to huge betting underdogs against one of the best sides ever along with two top 10 nations.

Some people will never be happy. And the whole 'but I'd rather we played good football no matter what the result, at least I'd go and see the games' line is ignorant of our history. Remember the Giles and Hand reigns? Played good football, lost. Games were either in Dalymount or with empty seats in Landsdowne...

Done to death. Its more the way we went about things in games. Trap was still in qualifying mode in these Euro's.

Francie Barrett

JerryHandbag wrote: »

From Twitter (Conor McNamara)

"Trapattoni confirms that some players have told him they will be retiring from international football. Says now is too early to name them."

Given & Duff I'd say.

Yep.

They should never have come.

LuckyLloyd

Corholio wrote: »

Done to death. Its more the way we went about things in games. Trap was still in qualifying mode in these Euro's.

So what? The players didn't play anywhere near what they were capable of, and that was always going to be fatal against such gifted opposition. How can people be serious about wanting him sacked because the tournament went poorly? What was the expectation? The expectation was elimination. We got eliminated.

To sack someone there has to be a huge disparity between performance and expectations. There has been some disparity the last three games. But over the four years as a whole? Well, you damn well know the answer to that.

And how can this be "done to death". His entire reign relative to what can be reasonably expected is the crux of the matter if sacking him is being seriously suggested.

Samich

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah dear. The three campaigns before Trapp takes over we don't even achieve a play off spot. Then he comes in, achieves a play off and qualification - and it's all about how "weak" our qualification groups were.

And now he should be sacked after losing three games where we were clear to huge betting underdogs against one of the best sides ever along with two top 10 nations.

Some people will never be happy. And the whole 'but I'd rather we played good football no matter what the result, at least I'd go and see the games' line is ignorant of our history. Remember the Giles and Hand reigns? Played good football, lost. Games were either in Dalymount or with empty seats in Landsdowne...

In fairness, Slovakia were the biggest threat in the group and they are no use at all.

France were a shambles in 2009.

Switzerland often done us out of a play off or whatever, they were a good side back then. Frei, Yakins etc.

Euro 2008 qualifying Czech Rep & france finished above us.

In all the qualifiers since 2002, and up to Euro 2012, the teams who finished above us were better than us. Not because of bad play, just better.

We were 2nd best team on paper in our qualifying group for this, and we got through.

LuckyLloyd

Samich wrote: »

In fairness, Slovakia were the biggest threat in the group and they are no use at all.

France were a shambles in 2009.

Switzerland often done us out of a play off or whatever, they were a good side back then. Frei, Yakins etc.

Euro 2008 qualifying Czech Rep & france finished above us.

In all the qualifiers since 2002, and up to Euro 2012, the teams who finished above us were better than us. Not because of bad play, just better.

We were 2nd best team on paper in our qualifying group for this, and we got through.

Talk to me about Bulgaria. Hint: we weren't favourites to finish ahead of them in that group.

Corholio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So what? The players didn't play anywhere near what they were capable of, and that was always going to be fatal against such gifted opposition. How can people be serious about wanting him sacked because the tournament went poorly? What was the expectation? The expectation was elimination. We got eliminated.

To sack someone there has to be a huge disparity between performance and expectations. There has been some disparity the last three games. But over the four years as a whole? Well, you damn well know the answer to that.

And how can this be "done to death". His entire reign relative to what can be reasonably expected is the crux of the matter if sacking him is being seriously suggested.

For what it's worth, Im not one of those saying he should be sacked. But the way he goes about things from now on is something that has to be looked at. In fairness, it hasn't been just the past 3 games, yes we qualified, but we were outplayed against Russia twice and Armenia. We can do a lot better, I think this is the bones of what people want.

handsomecake

Take down your bunting, go back to work.
They wouldn't get a kick in a stampede.
Funny how everyone got above their station

carbon nanotube

this guy could do as good a job as trap and he speaks better engrish too.

farang managers ... just no. look at fabeo capellooooo$$$$$$$$$$$

monkey9

carbon nanotube wrote: »

i said about 3 weeks ago its the worst Irish side i ever seen and i got fobbed off by everyone.

and now its all bitching about the team..

football eh.

not traps fault he has average players, jose could manage them and they would not be much better.

But this could be the worst Irish side a ten year old would see. What's your point??

Samich

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Talk to me about Bulgaria. Hint: we weren't favourites to finish ahead of them in that group.

LOL, remember that the time Bulgaria were in turmoil. Undergoing a change in manager in the process. Once again not a good team in any way, shape or form.

steelcityblues

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Talk to me about Bulgaria. Hint: we weren't favourites to finish ahead of them in that group.

Bulgaria, who only qualified for one tournament in the last decade, and were crap at that tournament, were considered better than us. :rolleyes:

eyescreamcone

devotional1993 wrote: »

Surreal watching Steve Staunton analyzing the Irish game on BBC earlier-nearly felt he should be back in instead of Trap!

Never forget!!!
Cyrus 5-2

And Staunton's legacy is still haunting us in the qualification group rankings.

Trap has got us from a 3rd seed spot to 2nd place in the group - twice. With 1 play off win. (and robbed in Paris)

Hopefully the next manager will have a team ranked 2nd, making qualifications much easier.

LuckyLloyd

Corholio wrote: »

For what it's worth, Im not one of those saying he should be sacked. But the way he goes about things from now on is something that has to be looked at. In fairness, it hasn't been just the past 3 games, yes we qualified, but we were outplayed against Russia twice and Armenia. We can do a lot better, I think this is the bones of what people want.

Why? He's here two more years then he retires. Either he succeeds and we are in Brazil. Or he fails and it's a new start for better or worse. It's all mapped out...

LuckyLloyd

steelcityblues wrote: »

Bulgaria, who only qualified for one tournament in the last decade, and were crap at that tournament, were considered better than us. :rolleyes:

Eh, yeah, they were.

steelcityblues

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Eh, yeah, they were.

Tell me by who?

carbon nanotube

monkey9 wrote: »

But this could be the worst Irish side a ten year old would see. What's your point??

go back 3 weeks ago and see how many agreed huh...:rolleyes:

carbon nanotube

steelcityblues wrote: »

Tell me by who?

anyone who had the misfortune of seeing the game thats who

TheDoc

Not one positive from this tournament for me.

Absolutely zero technical ability, for a country that has produced some class midfielders, to have that rubbish in the middle. Just disgusted really, not an ounce of pride. I'm on the same sentiment with Keane. If you qualify you should be good enough to compete.

Shows how lucky we were with the qualifiers and how we over achieved. Hope everyone has a fond memory of the fields of athenry, I'll remember fielding one of the worst squads in European championship football history.

Was never a fan of trap from the start and I cant wait to see him go, will be avoiding the WC like the plague. There is no way I'm parting with my hard earned cash to watch that ****e.


*waiting for noodle to enter with some sarcy comment, maybe some more conveniantly poised comments about how Armenia are a good side

noodler

carbon nanotube wrote: »

go back 3 weeks ago and see how many agreed huh...:rolleyes:

Aw loads.

The point was made continously that we had qualified thanks to Trap and that he was miracle worker to get us there with our squad.

Truth always somehwere in the middle.

Seaneh

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Eh, yeah, they were.

Having been unlucky enough to endure the ****e that was Ireland v Bulgaria in Croke Park during that qualifying campaign, eh, no they weren't.

They were ****. They had a 39 year old left full, 2 semi pros in the team and Berbatov was injured for most of it, he wasn't even in Dublin.

That Bulgaria team was horrid and we still couldn't beat them, in fact, they totally outplayed us.

noodler

TheDoc wrote: »

*waiting for noodle to enter with some sarcy comment, maybe some more conveniantly poised comments about how Armenia are a good side

Armenia 0-0 Russia
Armenia 3-1 Slovakia
Slovakia 0-4 Slovakia


Whats the argument?

Seaneh

That more shows that an average side who are willing to actually play football can be competitive, Armenia don't even have 11 fulltime professionals from top leagues to pick from ffs, they just actually play football.

PWEI

keith16 wrote: »

Bollocks....complete and utter bollocks.

I know plenty of genuine football fans over there who couldn't care less about drinking and are only there to support the team.

And of course there are many who will enjoy a drink over there, and why the hell shouldn't they?

But to say all the fans are over there on a massive bender is just wrong.

I just got back from Poland on Saturday & that that will be my biggest memory of the tournament, the Irish on the p*ss. I've been going to Ireland away games since 1991. Actually funnily enough my very first away game was in Poznan for a Euro 92 qualifier.
A lot has changed since then though, it used to always be about the game. Nowadays it's all about the pi*s up & getting dressed up. Lads dressed up as leprechauns, hulks, ninja turtles, I even saw four lads dressed up as bosco the puppet. I mean wtf, it's a football game not a fancy dress. Unfortunately nowadays following Ireland has become a bit of a circus.
Don't get me wrong I like a beer like the next man & had a fair few myself over there but the level of drinking by some of the Irish supporters is just ridiculous. I saw Irish lads last Thursday in Gdansk before the match coming out of shops carrying cases of beer & bottles of Jack Daniels. You'd swear it was Oxegen they were going to & not a football match. When I was leaving Gdansk on Friday morning at 09:00 there was still Irish out drinking from the night before.
I know there are genuine football fans over there who couldn't care less about drinking but they are in a minority now.

klose

His 3 subs tonight have to go down as one of the oddest things ever, it would have been grand if he switched to 4-3-3 but he didnt?
He must have absolutely no faith in our wingers and bench in general, I honestly think he went abit senile in the tournament! Should be an intersting few weeks ahead to see what will happen in his press conferennces.

Atleast this tournament will imo be more remembered by europeans in general as the one were holland fell apart after been in the wc final 2 years previous and not how bad we were. Sad thing is with a better squad selection/style and apporach we could have really had a more posotive tournament.

kryogen

noodler wrote: »

Armenia 0-0 Russia
Armenia 3-1 Slovakia
Slovakia 0-4 Slovakia

Whats the argument?

How did they do that? :eek:

djpbarry

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah dear. The three campaigns before Trapp takes over we don't even achieve a play off spot.

To be fair, Kerr only just missed out in what was a pretty tough group.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Then he comes in, achieves a play off and qualification - and it's all about how "weak" our qualification groups were.

But it was a factor – we qualified without beating either of the top two seeds, which is pretty unusual. Slovakia capitulated for whatever reason. Then Estonia somehow made it to the playoffs and we were lucky enough to get them.

You cannot say that the luck of the draw didn’t work in Ireland’s favour.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And now he should be sacked after losing three games where we were clear to huge betting underdogs against one of the best sides ever along with two top 10 nations.

No, that’s certainly not what I’m saying.

I was not a fan of Trap before the tournament and I was finding it very hard to look forward to the brand of football (I use the word loosely) that would be on display. Ireland’s performances during the qualifying campaign were generally very poor – we were passed off the park in virtually every home game. Now, to me, if a side is consistently turning in poor performances, that suggests that either the system or the personnel need changing. Or both. And yet, here we are today against Italy with virtually the exact same team that started the qualifying campaign – Ward at left-full is the only change.

Why persist with a system that clearly isn’t working? Essentially, there is absolutely no evidence of progression from the previous campaign and I really cannot see how things are going to improve for the world cup qualifiers.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some people will never be happy. And the whole 'but I'd rather we played good football no matter what the result, at least I'd go and see the games' line is ignorant of our history. Remember the Giles and Hand reigns? Played good football, lost.

Remember McCarthy?

noodler

kryogen wrote: »

How did they do that? :eek:

Some sort of Middle-Eastern witchcraft.

Sanity_Saviour

djpbarry wrote: »

To be fair, Kerr only just missed out in what was a pretty tough group.
But it was a factor – we qualified without beating either of the top two seeds, which is pretty unusual. Slovakia capitulated for whatever reason. Then Estonia somehow made it to the playoffs and we were lucky enough to get them.

You cannot say that the luck of the draw didn’t work in Ireland’s favour.
No, that’s certainly not what I’m saying.

I was not a fan of Trap before the tournament and I was finding it very hard to look forward to the brand of football (I use the word loosely) that would be on display. Ireland’s performances during the qualifying campaign were generally very poor – we were passed off the park in virtually every home game. Now, to me, if a side is consistently turning in poor performances, that suggests that either the system or the personnel need changing. Or both. And yet, here we are today against Italy with virtually the exact same team that started the qualifying campaign – Ward at left-full is the only change.

Why persist with a system that clearly isn’t working? Essentially, there is absolutely no evidence of progression from the previous campaign and I really cannot see how things are going to improve for the world cup qualifiers.
Remember McCarthy?

But, bar one, we didn't lose any of those games. Does that not mean the system is working?

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Armenia 0-0 Russia
Armenia 3-1 Slovakia
Slovakia 0-4 Slovakia


Whats the argument?

Haha, we already know you barely bother reading anyone else's posts, but how about at least rereading your own before wasting everyones time with them.