Safety/risk involved in one night stands

RatsInParadise

An interesting thread. You've made me stop and analyse my actions and motivations a little. Safety. Interesting word, and one that used to absolutely dominate almost all of my actions and decisions.

Like a few people here have mentioned, I probably associate my most unsafe practices with my younger days, but into my 20s now and I wouldn't be against one night stands. I think I would trust my judge of character a lot better now - there would need to be a connection on *some* level before I would go home with someone (or bring them home).

I completely accept your point, neuro-praxis that this is fundamentally unsafe. So why do I do it? I've been hurt before and I never want to go through anything even vaguely resembling that experience again - yet I do put myself at exactly that risk. More interestingly - usually when I think about risk involved in one night stands - I think more about STIs and pregnancy.

I think it's a bit of a personal philosophy I've adopted in a way. Life's too short to worry about every little thing that could go wrong. I'll do my best to make sure I feel safe/protected. I've got an IUD for contraception, always use condoms, friends (usually) will know where I am, and it'll be with a person I've had a good connection with - albeit only for a night or a weekend.

Curious that I've never quite factored in the physical safety elements to casual sex. I've definitely been in situations though where it's coming up towards the end of the night and I'm hanging out with someone and will get creeped out that there's something expected of me, or that they think it's going somewhere it's not, or that they might have the best intentions, but will end up making a move on me and I just don't want to be in that situation with the person and will make my excuses (or not) and leave. In these scenarios, I'll agree to feeling far more threatened by males than females. And I think that that does come down to my perceived ability to defend myself if needs be.

But never have I felt physically uncomfortable with someone I have chosen/consented to go home with.

As for regrets... to quote Sinatra.. "regrets, I've had a few. Then again, too few to mention".

The only problems, really have been when we've turned out to have friends in common and it's added a little strain/awkwardness/complexity to previously existing relationships, but by and large, the worst case has been just not particularly enjoyable sex, the best has been just having a great time and connecting with another human on a number of levels

analucija

And after couple of dates you know somebody well enough so it's safe to have sex with them?

I don't think anybody can claim there are no risks but a lot depends on circumstances. And a lot of those circumstances are exactly the same when somebody comes to pick you up for a date or something similar. Unless it's implied that women have to be drunk to have ONSs?

neuro-praxis

Piste wrote: »

Do we know what % of one-night stands end in sexual assault and what % of committed relationships involve sexual assault? Cos until you can be sure that a higher proportion of one-night stands end in sexual assault then it's a massive assertion to claim that a one-night stand is unsafe sex.

Very good point. Going to have a look around for some stats.

RatsInParadise wrote: »

An interesting thread. ...

The only problems, really have been when we've turned out to have friends in common and it's added a little strain/awkwardness/complexity to previously existing relationships, but by and large, the worst case has been just not particularly enjoyable sex, the best has been just having a great time and connecting with another human on a number of levels

Great response, thanks.

Ickle Magoo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I am attempting to raise a discussion about how women put themselves at considerable risk when they have sex with men they do not know or have no reason to trust

By risk do you mean violence? Or theft? Or sexual assault? I'm just wondering why you specifically targeted one-night-stands out of all the bazillion "risky" things people do? For that reason it appears to me to be more of a bizarre moralistic effort to put people off having one-night-stands under the guise of concern for their safety than anything else...

Besides, any statistics I can find (HERE for instance) suggest the vast majority of rapists are known to their victims - one in five are partners/spouses. Given only 9% are strangers that would imply a woman is actually safer in that respect with a one-night-stand than with someone she knows or lives/works with...

I could be biased tho - having been attacked by a boyfriend and now married to a one-night-stand... :cool:

neuro-praxis

Some stats from the SAVI Report (McGee et al, 2002, The Liffey Press), a 2001 major nationwide survey, which interviewed 3120 adults in depth, and was undertaken on behalf of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre:

7.5 % of Irish women and 1.5 % of Irish men have experienced rape or attempted rape in adulthood. One in five women and one in ten men have experienced sexual assault in adulthood.

74 % of those who experienced rape or sexual assault knew the person who assaulted them. The truth is that most rape and sexual assault takes place within a social or family situation. This often adds to the victim’s confusion and self-blame, where the rape may have followed on from a seemingly normal situation. It also means that the victim has to continue their life in a context where they may have ongoing contact with the perpetrator.

Also, I couldn't find stats about lesbian sexual assault in Ireland, but found some info from the US on http://www.pandys.org/articles/lesbiandomesticviolence.html:

Perhaps surprisingly, statistics have shown that lesbian people experience domestic violence at a very similar rate to that of heterosexual women (Waldner-Haygrud, 1997; AVP, 1992). It has been estimated that between 17-45% of lesbians have been the victim of at least one act of violence perpetrated by a female partner (Burke et al, 1999; Lie et al, 1991), and that 30% of lesbians have reported sexual assault / rape by another woman (Renzetti, 1992). Considering the lack of discussion that takes place regarding lesbian domestic violence and sexual assault, I find these figures staggering.

Staggering is not the word!

Abi

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I said you didn't address the question of risk, which is the point of the thread. I didn't say you didn't know what the risks were.[/B]

What would you like me to say about it exactly? I think you're asking me make a similar statement that rain is wet here.

This thread is awash with posts that justify the conditions for women having one night stands. You said yourself you are ok with it if the woman doesn't make a habit of it. What business is it of anybody's if a woman makes a habit of it? My only concern is not the frequency, or the connection she feels, or anything other than safety.

I'm quite agreeable with you in this sense. But may I ask, are you in favour of abstinence until you find the right suitor, or where do you draw the line?

Yes, the respect is oozing.

Please don't be sarcastic, I've said to you in my previous post, I like you as a poster, and I've always liked your posts.

If everyone accepts that sex with strangers is risky, then why are people suggesting that to state this is to be patronizing and judgemental? I don't accept this.

It is if you are to excess. You're gradually increasing your odds of some kind of infection. My thinking is, don't sleep around. Yours seems to be just don't sleep with anyone. Or is it post marriage?

I'm being honest here, I don't understand where the line is here. May I just ask you, if not too personal a question (bear in mind you've asked women here a personal question), when do you feel it is acceptable to sleep with a man?



I just need to understand your point of view better.

If you have a problem with any of my posts you can feel free to report them.

You're being defensive again. I really don't find a problem with your posts. I merely said they're a bit judgemental etc., it's in no way upsetting. It's only a discussion.

Or at least I thought so? o_0

neuro-praxis

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

By risk do you mean violence? Or theft? Or sexual assault? I'm just wondering why you specifically targeted one-night-stands out of all the bazillion "risky" things people do?

I mean violence and sexual assault. What are the bazillion "risky" things that people do?

I think it is quite fair on a forum that discusses amongst other subjects the sexual well-being of women to raise the question of risk in one night stands.

For that reason it appears to me to be more of a bizarre moralistic effort to put people off having one-night-stands under the guise of concern for their safety than anything else...

You may believe this, but you are quite simply wrong. There is nothing bizarre or moralistic in the conviction that women ought to safeguard themselves in relation to sexual partners. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. I have not been disingenuous in any of my posts here. I have no interest in the morality of one night stands. I am getting quite tired of repeating this.

Besides, any statistics I can find (HERE for instance) suggest the vast majority of rapists are known to their victims - one in five are partners/spouses. Given only 9% are strangers that would imply a woman is actually safer in that respect with a one-night-stand than with someone she knows or lives/works with...

I could be biased tho - having been attacked by a boyfriend and now married to a one-night-stand... :cool:

I quoted similar statistics from the Irish Rape Crisis Centre report, actually. No need to use statistics as a weapon against me as only a few posts back I was grateful to Piste for raising the issue and went looking for relevant stats to add to the conversation.

Edit: It is also worth noting that your interpretation of the statistics is insubstantial as there are several mitigating factors that need to defined before any such conclusion could be drawn - for example, what constitutes a stranger. Also it needs to be taken into account the numbers of sexual encounters involved. Once can't read 20% versus 9% flat off the page without understanding the context assumed by the survey. Your interpretation may be correct but it would need to be justified.

Yes, you could be biased. As indeed we all are. I have in fact attempted to discuss this subject however without bias, which is proving very difficult.

neuro-praxis

Abi wrote: »

I'm quite agreeable with you in this sense. But may I ask, are you in favour of abstinence until you find the right suitor, or where do you draw the line?

No. I am proposing that the sexual safety of women is paramount, and it is worth considering that sex with strangers could end badly. I think I have been quite clear about this. I have also been quite clear that the issue is not with casual sex.

Please don't be sarcastic, I've said to you in my previous post, I like you as a poster, and I've always liked your posts.

I have remained polite despite many digs. I respectfully disagree that you were being respectful when you said, "No **** sherlock."

It is if you are to excess. You're gradually increasing your odds of some kind of infection. My thinking is, don't sleep around. Yours seems to be just don't sleep with anyone. Or is it post marriage?

Again, simply a gross misrepresentation of my points. Can you highlight anything at all where I have suggested abstinence until marriage is desirable? I could highlight ten things I've written that demonstrate that I propose no moral difficulty with casual sex.

I'm being honest here, I don't understand where the line is here. May I just ask you, if not too personal a question (bear in mind you've asked women here a personal question), when do you feel it is acceptable to sleep with a man?

Quite simply when it seems right to those involved.

You're being defensive again. I really don't find a problem with your posts. I merely said they're a bit judgemental etc., it's in no way upsetting. It's only a discussion.

Or at least I thought so? o_0

Abi, you saying your comments aren't barbed doesn't make them not so. I have a limited tolerance for trolling responses to serious questions, and I am getting there. If I was placing a moral judgement on one night stands, I would gladly concede your point. I don't have any difficulty with taking the views of others on board. You will find that the points on which I agree with adversary posters in this thread dramatically outnumber those where I highlight disagreement. Such good grace unfortunately has not been extended to me in the simple assertion that there is a risk to the personal and sexual safety of women when they embark on sexual encounters with strangers. It is good when this risk does not materialize, and potentially devastating when it does. To me, the risk appears entirely unnecessary. That this position could be seen as anything other than pro-women and pro-safe-sex is pretty surprising to me tbh.

And now...for bed.

Ickle Magoo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I mean violence and sexual assault. What are the bazillion "risky" things that people do?

Like, getting in a car with people they don't know, walking home with people they don't know, snogging somebody they don't know, getting separated from their friends with someone they don't know - hell, meeting someone off the internet or going on a date holds "risk"...

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I think it is quite fair on a forum that discusses amongst other subjects the sexual well-being of women to raise the question of risk in one night stands.

Why just one-night-stands tho? Is sleeping together on the second date safer? It's just the way you've honed in on one-night-stands, without initially providing any statistics and making false assumptions about lesbian relationships - you'll forgive me if I'm dubious your intention was to raise a well researched topic for general discussion...

neuro-praxis wrote: »

You may believe this, but you are quite simply wrong. There is nothing bizarre or moralistic in the conviction that women ought to safeguard themselves in relation to sexual partners. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. I have not been disingenuous in any of my posts here. I have no interest in the morality of one night stands. I am getting quite tired of repeating this.

I think I've covered much of that above - the bottom line is your supposition was that women who don't know their partner are at greater risk - yet the statistics show women are more at risk from those they do know...personally, I find that 1-in-5 rapes perpetrated by a spouse/partner far more worrying and worthy of discussion than suppositions over one-night-stands.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I quoted that just as you did, actually. No need to use statistics as a weapon against me as only a few posts back I was grateful to Piste for raising the issue and went looking for relevant stats to add to the conversation.

Yes, you could be biased. As indeed we all are. I have in fact attempted to discuss this subject however without bias, which is proving very difficult.

A weapon? While you may not be aware of it - it's your choice of language and that kind of hysterical reaction to rational analysis that screams ulterior motive. When I posted, you hadn't given any statistics - it was pure conjecture...

I'm not going to lie, I've had a few one night stands and see no problem with them. Yes, they are essentially a risk, but there's a risk associated with most things in life. I have no problem with casual sex, see nothing wrong with it and have no problem with people who aren't interested in it - however, I dislike when people judge me for it, which does happen sometimes.

Babybuff

wrt to the lesbian thing, and I don't speak for all lesbians but my fears wouldn't be about violence or sexual assault, there are other things which would concern me, mostly going back and finding a man there. That would be bad. (and stds)
I'm not into violence, I'm fairly laid back but I'm probably less afraid of being able to handle a woman than a man if she did get violent. (I have handled the odd aggressive woman well in the past) But for me personally, I try to take care of the people I'm with and if I suspect that's not a mutual understanding then I'm not going anywhere with them in the first place.

PrincessLola

Hmm.. if I wanted sex badly enough I probably would go home with a strange guy. Am I too trusting on this?

I mean if rape or something were to happen I would probably get victim-blamed because I chose to go home with him..

Dolbert

One of the reasons I have never had a ONS is because I couldn’t imagine being so vulnerable with someone I barely knew. It would just go against my every self-preservation instinct. There are other reasons why it didn’t appeal to me of course but personal safety was always up there as a factor. I couldn’t care less if people think I’m paranoid because of this, it’s just something I’ve never been comfortable with. I think people are reading intent that wasn’t there into the OP.

ShiftStorm

Dolorous wrote: »

One of the reasons I have never had a ONS is because I couldn’t imagine being so vulnerable with someone I barely knew. It would just go against my every self-preservation instinct. There are other reasons why it didn’t appeal to me of course but personal safety was always up there as a factor. I couldn’t care less if people think I’m paranoid because of this, it’s just something I’ve never been comfortable with. I think people are reading intent that wasn’t there into the OP.

What Dolorous said!

Princess Peach

I know a girl who brought a stranger home one night. Woke up the next morning and laptop and purse were gone along with himself.

She had a hard time explaining that one to her parents :pac:

The Big Red Button

Princess Peach wrote: »

I know a girl who brought a stranger home one night. Woke up the next morning and laptop and purse were gone along with himself.

She had a hard time explaining that one to her parents :pac:

You know, in a funny way, if I were to go home with a stranger, I'd far rather go to his place than mine! You'd sort of expect it would be the other way round, wouldn't you?

Giselle

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

By risk do you mean violence? Or theft? Or sexual assault? I'm just wondering why you specifically targeted one-night-stands out of all the bazillion "risky" things people do? For that reason it appears to me to be more of a bizarre moralistic effort to put people off having one-night-stands under the guise of concern for their safety than anything else...

I think its a reasonable topic, and I don't see why bringing it up constitutes judgment or agenda in and of itself; I think this is as worthy of discussion as say, using a carpark alone at night, which has its own possible dangers. Its just another area of personal safety with the added aspect of sexual vulnerability.

I think this thread is becoming polarised for no good reason, and one thing that I've noticed is that there seems to be an expectation of judgement, even when the OP has repeatedly stated that she is making no moral judgement on ONSs and is only interested in the safety aspect, and other posters have remained neutral.

Its a bit odd that its coming across as a taboo subject to even discuss, but something like watching out for one's safety while driving wouldn't be questioned as a thread topic. Perhaps that's judgement too.

I've often read NP's posts and have liked her even-handedness and how she expresses herself, even when I haven't agreed with her, I've understood her to be an open and compassionate person. I don't think she would start a thread with the intention of pushing her views and disguising them as concern.

Princess Peach

chatterpillar wrote: »

You know, in a funny way, if I were to go home with a stranger, I'd far rather go to his place than mine! You'd sort of expect it would be the other way round, wouldn't you?

I always prefer staying in my own house cause my stuff is there. But yeah thinking of it now if things don't turn out well I would prefer my stuff to be safe and the guy not to know where I live!

Also, never had a one night stand, but I assume sometimes there's awkwardness getting him to leave when you want to end things early :pac:

analucija

Dolorous wrote: »

I think people are reading intent that wasn’t there into the OP.

We might or the tone of her posts was judgmental enough that quite a few of us read "the intent that wasn't there" in the OP. I wonder what the reaction would be if somebody started the thread "I'd never wear a low cut top or a short skirt because it makes you a magnet for sexual predators." Or maybe a man starting a thread "I'd never have a ONS because some girl could have sex with me just to get pregnant and then demand maintenance of me". There are plenty of risks involved in ONSs but there can be plenty of risk involved in just dating somebody and thinking you know somebody well...

I still don't think ONSs I had were particularly risky. Ironically I did act once as a complete idiot and did something that was extremely unsafe. It turned out to be the risk well worth taking and the only man I ever loved and I can't imagine life without him. I wouldn't advise anybody to do what I did though.

The Big Red Button

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Ok! I agree, provisionally. What would be the precautions to reduce risk, other than contraceptives?

OK. Thinking only of personal safety.

If I was on a night out, if I got too drunk, I'd be going home, alone, to my own place, not with a man. Basically I know my limits. There is no way that I'd get in a situation where I'd go home with someone else (to my own place, or to some one else's) while in a state where I was too drunk to make decisions. (Obviously, date rape drugs etc is a whole different situation.)

If I met a guy on a night out, presumably, my friends would be there too. If he was a complete stranger, who none of us knew at all, I'd depend on my friends' judgement of him as well as my own. By this I mean, if a friend took me aside and said that, for whatever reason, they didn't want me to go home with the guy, I would respect their opinion and not do it. If I liked him that much, we could always swap numbers etc and meet up again.

I do put a lot of faith in my own judgement of character, and I go with my instincts. I wouldn't be afraid to leave at any time I felt uncomfortable with a situation.

If I was going home with someone else, I would like to think that I'd let a friend know where I was going. As I said previously, I've never been in that situation with a complete stranger. But, you know, if I was happy to get in a taxi and go home with a guy - then I'd be comfortable enough with him to ask him for his address so that I could give it to a friend.

Any time I ever go out with friends, we are always texting the following morning. I know that, if my friends hadn't heard back from me by midday, they would be extremely concerned. I know that them being concerned isn't much use if I'm lying dead in an alleyway, but still, it's good to know!

I've been attacked before (not sexually) and was not afraid to fight back. I mightn't be big, or strong, but I'm fully willing to do anything it would take to defend myself. Seriously, I would be in no way squeamish about gouging out a man's eyeballs in order to protect myself. Let alone what I'd do to his more sensitive parts! I know from experience that I'm not going to freeze in such a situation.

At the end of the day, it's very much a case of balancing risk against reward. When it comes down to it, I believe that I take more of a risk getting behind the wheel of my car for my regular drive home across the country, than I would if I were to go home with a man that I liked and trusted enough that I was willing to go home with him, with the intention of having sex.

Giselle wrote: »

one thing that I've noticed is that there seems to be an expectation of judgement, even when the OP has repeatedly stated that she is making no moral judgement on ONSs and is only interested in the safety aspect, and other posters have remained neutral.

But, the thing is, this isn't a focus group being run by the OP.

It's a discussion forum. Raise a topic, and posters will go off on tangents, and offer their own opinions. They mightn't be opinions that the OP is interested in, but they are all relevant, and might be of interest to other users of the forum - if not to the OP.

Giselle

analucija wrote: »

I wonder what the reaction would be if somebody started the thread "I'd never wear a low cut top or a short skirt because it makes you a magnet for sexual predators." Or maybe a man starting a thread "I'd never have a ONS because some girl could have sex with me just to get pregnant and then demand maintenance of me".

But I honestly can't see anything in the OP thats comparable to those statements!

The Op even explicitly states that she believes the fault for any assault lies with the perpetrator.

Perhaps it could have been couched differently but its obvious, to me anyway, that the intent to offend or judge wasn't there. Its a sensitive subject though, so its probably always going to be open to misinterpretation.

Fluorescence

If we can stay on the topic of the thread and not debate the merit or morality of having such a thread, that'd be awesome. Thanks :cool:

Motorist

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

By risk do you mean violence? Or theft? Or sexual assault? I'm just wondering why you specifically targeted one-night-stands out of all the bazillion "risky" things people do? For that reason it appears to me to be more of a bizarre moralistic effort to put people off having one-night-stands under the guise of concern for their safety than anything else...

Besides, any statistics I can find (HERE for instance) suggest the vast majority of rapists are known to their victims - one in five are partners/spouses. Given only 9% are strangers that would imply a woman is actually safer in that respect with a one-night-stand than with someone she knows or lives/works with...

I could be biased tho - having been attacked by a boyfriend and now married to a one-night-stand... :cool:

How are strangers defined ? If you spend a night talking to someone, how are they still strangers?

Is this 9% not referring to a someone walking home and attacked by a criminal they have never seen before?

Giselle

chatterpillar wrote: »

But, the thing is, this isn't a focus group being run by the OP.

It's a discussion forum. Raise a topic, and posters will go off on tangents, and offer their own opinions. They mightn't be opinions that the OP is interested in, but they are all relevant, and might be of interest to other users of the forum - if not to the OP.

That is all true Chatterpillar

I'm just concerned that the OP's motives were being questioned in a unjustifiably confrontational way.


Edit: Sorry Fluoresence, posted before I saw your warning.

helimachoptor

chatterpillar wrote: »

You know, in a funny way, if I were to go home with a stranger, I'd far rather go to his place than mine! You'd sort of expect it would be the other way round, wouldn't you?

Not really, most girl friends said they'd go to his so their dad/brothers didn't hear them going at it. In my own personal experiences girls are generally keener to go to mine, in saying that it's been quite some time since my last ons.

A good mate of mine a number of years ago was basically assaulted, she was out met a guy back to his things get heavy(penetration) she wants to stop, the guy does but then knocks her about for wasting his time, she'd had a few ons til that Point but not since

The Big Red Button

helimachoptor wrote: »

Not really, most girl friends said they'd go to his so their dad/brothers didn't hear them going at it. In my own personal experiences girls are generally keener to go to mine, in saying that it's been quite some time since my last ons.

God, there is no way I'd bring a fella back to my dad's place or my brothers' places anyways! I would obviously never consider bringing a guy back to my parents place for a ONS! That's not what I meant at all!!! Can you imagine?!

Tigger99

helimachoptor wrote: »

A good mate of mine a number of years ago was basically assaulted

Sorry if this is off topic but I couldn't let it go past without commenting on it. She wasn't basically assaulted. She was assaulted.

helimachoptor wrote: »

she wants to stop, the guy does but then knocks her about for wasting his time

Maybe its just poor phrasing but this sentence is awful:mad:. Its almost like justification for assaulting her. It sits very badly with me.

I've never had a ONS. Actually I've never even kissed a stranger! Just not for me. Not because of safety or anything, I often put myself in very unsafe situations. I just have to know someone before I have sex with them.

helimachoptor

Tigger99 wrote: »

Sorry if this is off topic but I couldn't let it go past without commenting on it. She wasn't basically assaulted. She was assaulted.

Maybe its just poor phrasing but this sentence is awful:mad:. Its almost like justification for assaulting her. It sits very badly with me.

That was how she described it not me.

And for the second part those were his words, along with a few others i won't post! His view was that he spent the night chatting her up buying her drinks and paying for the taxi, his expectation was sex ultimately it fell short of what he expected and he took it out on her.

helimachoptor

chatterpillar wrote: »

God, there is no way I'd bring a fella back to my dad's place or my brothers' places anyways! I would obviously never consider bringing a guy back to my parents place for a ONS! That's not what I meant at all!!! Can you imagine?!

Well this is why girls are more likely to go with guys, I mean as a guy I couldn't care less if my parents heard me however as a girl I'm sure I'd have a different outlook and the last thing you want would be your dad coming in mid sex.

I must re-read your post and others i seem to picking up the wrong end of the stick