On the basis of this tournament, who would you choose?

Samich

On the basis of this tournament and on the potential and ability of Kieran Westwood, who would be the better choice to play in goal

Shay Given or Kieran Westwood?

Shay has cost us at this tournament and Westwood deserves his opportunity.

Nothing against Shay, he's been a fantastic player for Ireland and has saved Ireland on countless occasions but Westwood would do an excellent job for Ireland in my opinion.

Shay was fit, himself and his manager said it so that can't be argued.

Helix

given said he was 10% fit

Samich

Helix wrote: »

given said he was 10% fit

If that's the case he let his country down

The Radiator

Not yet

double GG

Given was the worst keeper at Euro 2012. Some of the goals he let in were shocking. If he wasn't 100% fit, not only did he but the management also lets his side down.

The squad needs some new blood. Westwood being 1 of them. Keane, Duff and Dunne will probably follow suit.

Get Trap and Delaney and co. out the door when we're at it.

noodler

Of course, everybody needs to consider that Given should not be judged soley on the fact he was the one in nets against Spain, Croatia and Italy.

For me, it is clear, if Given said he was going to stay on then he would obviously be a better choice than Westwood until he can prove otherwise.

double GG wrote: »

The squad needs some new blood. Westwood being 1 of them.

In fairness, Westwood is always in the squad.

kryogen

Not on the basis of this tournament no, but I do think if Westwood is to be the next Irish keeper we have to start to give him game time now to make his mistakes.

noodler

I have to admit to Samich,

I am gobsmacked at the poll results so far.

Two-thirds of people want Given replaced in the next campaign whereas I feel he is an absolute definite start in goals if he was available.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

I have to admit to Samich,

I am gobsmacked at the poll results so far.

Two-thirds of people want Given replaced in the next campaign whereas I feel he is an absolute definite start in goals if he was available.

Why do you think he was so bad at this tournament so?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

double GG wrote: »

Given was the worst keeper at Euro 2012. Some of the goals he let in were shocking. If he wasn't 100% fit, not only did he but the management also lets his side down.

Concur. 4/5 of the goals he conceded were stoppable, no exaggeration.

adox

What a ****ing loaded question.

Player has terrible tournament and then his place is questioned based purely on his form in that tournament?


GTFO.

noodler

Actually, I just see now that the question is phrased:

"On the basis of this tournament" which is grossly unfair and misleading in my opinion.

Samich

adox wrote: »

What a ****ing loaded question.

Player has terrible tournament and then his place is questioned based purely on his form in that tournament?


GTFO.

Sound, add in a few expletives and the likes to strengthen your argument,

GTFO with that ***** ***** ***** stuff.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

Actually, I just see now that the question is phrased:

"On the basis of this tournament" which is grossly unfair and misleading in my opinion.

That's not the question, selected sight now?

Call me a liar sure.

eagle eye

No for me. Given is a world class keeper still in my book. He came into this tournament with an injury and I think he explains why he wasn't his usual self. Westwood is a reserve keeper at Sunderland, he had his chance to win the starting job there and lost out so I don't see how anybody would want him over a guy who has been and will continue to be a starting keeper for some time to come.

Helix

sure on the basis of this tournament you have to go with given, coz westwood didnt play

Samich

eagle eye wrote: »

No for me. Given is a world class keeper still in my book. He came into this tournament with an injury and I think he explains why he wasn't his usual self. Westwood is a reserve keeper at Sunderland, he had his chance to win the starting job there and lost out so I don't see how anybody would want him over a guy who has been and will continue to be a starting keeper for some time to come.

So who's fault is it?

Givens for not saying he wasn't fit enough and not putting his country first, or trap for not seeing he was not fit enough?

Kiwi_knock

I would prefer Westwood but I would have an issue with him getting no game time at Sunderland. Could mean he is not that fresh when it comes to international duty. It does not look likely that he will displace Mignolet or that he will leave Sunderland so he will be lacking match practice. He should though play for us against Serbia and Kazakhstan; and if he produces a good performance he should get the start against Germany.

Renn

Comes in with an injury/doesn't train as much as the others - should he have been playing? For me, no. Better to have a keeper who's 100% fit and can actually perform like an actual professional footballer. Like I was saying before, not sure who to blame more - Trap or Given.

noodler

Samich wrote: »

That's not the question, selected sight now?

Call me a liar sure.

Thread title?

Samich

Helix wrote: »

sure on the basis of this tournament you have to go with given, coz westwood didnt play

Read the full sentence if you read it at all.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

Thread title?

Ah. There's an OP for a reason.

Renn

And there's never been anything 'world class' about Given. He's a good keeper, and the best Ireland have had for a number of years, but I question playing a guy who wasn't training pre-tournament and certainly looked it.

kerash

On the basis of this tournament I wouldn't choose. Given certainly had a bad tournament and was off he game. It remains to be seen if he has lost his edge and then an informed decision can be made.
If we had another match I'd field a different keeper.

Samich

Renn wrote: »

And there's never been anything 'world class' about Given. He's a good keeper, and the best Ireland have had for a number of years, but I question playing a guy who wasn't training pre-tournament and certainly looked it.

Given has been a brilliant keeper, but Westwood deserves his chance. Given can only get worse.

Soups123

Your asking the question in a way to support ur own tripe on the march thread, the question should simply be who should be our no. 1. On the basis of this tournament are holland ****? The answer is yes, if u ask the question as are holland **** the answer is no they just had a bad tournament

Samich

Soups123 wrote: »

Your asking the question in a way to support ur own tripe on the march thread, the question should simply be who should be our no. 1. On the basis of this tournament are holland ****? The answer is yes, if u ask the question as are holland **** the answer is no they just had a bad tournament

When do you suggest making decisions? 12 months after it's too late?

noodler

Samich wrote: »

Given has been a brilliant keeper, but Westwood deserves his chance. Given can only get worse.

What has Westwood done to deserve a chance?

He hasn't played club football since 2011 and Given has helped us qualify for our first major tournament in 10 years?

EDIT: Moscow was only 8 months ago.

I wonder if you would be less critical of Given if we hadn't qualified at all which is obviously a bit bizarre.

eagle eye

Samich wrote: »

So who's fault is it?

Givens for not saying he wasn't fit enough and not putting his country first, or trap for not seeing he was not fit enough?

How about its that even not fully fit Given is miles ahead of Westwood.

Soups123

Samich wrote: »

Soups123 wrote: »

Your asking the question in a way to support ur own tripe on the march thread, the question should simply be who should be our no. 1. On the basis of this tournament are holland ****? The answer is yes, if u ask the question as are holland **** the answer is no they just had a bad tournament

When do you suggest making decisions? 12 months after it's too late?

??? Form is temp, class permanent. Given had 3 bad games. He shouldn't be a stone wall first choice but Westwood needs to earn the right to be no. 1 starting with getting game time at club level and performing better than Shay. I like Westwood and been impressed but he hasn't done enough to out shay

JPA

I believe he will retire from international's anyway.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

What has Westwood done to deserve a chance?

He hasn't played club football since 2011 and Given has helped us qualify for our first major tournament in 10 years?

EDIT: Moscow was only 8 months ago.

I wonder if you would be less critical of Given if we hadn't qualified at all which is obviously a bit bizarre.

Played excellently at Coventry, so much so Sunderland wanted him.

Played excellently whenever he's played imo, remember the Hungary match a few weeks ago?

You want a 36 year old to lead us into the qualifiers and then a 38 year old who would be well past it to play in Brazil?

You said Shay should stay no.1 as he's had a good 14 years basically.

Mr.Nice Guy

Is this one of RTE's social media polls?

Samich

eagle eye wrote: »

How about its that even not fully fit Given is miles ahead of Westwood.

You're credibility has shot up.

Soups123

Samich wrote: »

noodler wrote: »

What has Westwood done to deserve a chance?

He hasn't played club football since 2011 and Given has helped us qualify for our first major tournament in 10 years?

EDIT: Moscow was only 8 months ago.

I wonder if you would be less critical of Given if we hadn't qualified at all which is obviously a bit bizarre.

Played excellently at Coventry, so much so Sunderland wanted him.

Played excellently whenever he's played imo, remember the Hungary match a few weeks ago?

You want a 36 year old to lead us into the qualifiers and then a 38 year old who would be well past it to play in Brazil?

You said Shay should stay no.1 as he's had a good 14 years basically.

Shay played so well City, then Villa now QPR want him.
Did Shay also not play excellent against Hungry?
I don't care how old a player is, the one with the best ability and form will play. Shay will more than likely be a regular prem player for the next two yrs? I'm not sure WW will!

kitakyushu

On the basis of his performance in this tournament I'd even give Stephanie from the "3" ad a shot in goal over Given.

"She could be a keeper" (straight from the horses mouth).

noodler

Samich wrote: »

Played excellently at Coventry, so much so Sunderland wanted him.

Played excellently whenever he's played imo, remember the Hungary match a few weeks ago?

You want a 36 year old to lead us into the qualifiers and then a 38 year old who would be well past it to play in Brazil?

You said Shay should stay no.1 as he's had a good 14 years basically.

But your argument is based on how good Westwood was for Coventry

between 2008 and 2011 in the Championship.

Given was playing for Newcastle, Man City and Villa in the Premirship during that period?

So really, your argument that we are basing the argument on Given's part performances whilst ignoring Westwood's is not true.

If we move on to international form - well, Given's record for Ireland speaks for itself.

nlgbbbblth

Paddy Kenny?

Samich

Soups123 wrote: »

Shay played so well City, then Villa now QPR want him.
Did Shay also not play excellent against Hungry?
I don't care how old a player is, the one with the best ability and form will play. Shay will more than likely be a regular prem player for the next two yrs? I'm not sure WW will!

He's going from bigger club to bigger club then.

Plenty of PL clubs would have Westwood, he's happy it seems at S'land.

And doubtful Shay will be.

noodler

Samich wrote: »

He's going from bigger club to bigger club then.

Plenty of PL clubs would have Westwood, he's happy it seems at S'land.

And doubtful Shay will be.

Wow, thats an awful lot of speculation in one post!

Its worth noting that just because Westwood has progressed from Championship to EPL and then sadly to Sunderland's bench doesn't mean he is better than Given who has been a premiership player consistently.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

But your argument is based on how good Westwood was for Coventry

between 2008 and 2011 in the Championship.

Given was playing for Newcastle, Man City and Villa in the Premirship during that period?

So really, your argument that we are basing the argument on Given's part performances whilst ignoring Westwood's is not true.

If we move on to international form - well, Given's record for Ireland speaks for itself.

Westwood can only get better, Given can only get worse.

And onto international form? You pick the players who are playing well now.

Shay was at fault for loads of Irelands goals in the 3 games.

Mr.Crinklewood

Get Westwood and Given to sing "The Fields of Athenry". Whoever wins the sing off gets the Number one spot.

Kiwi_knock

Westwood was unlucky with the club he moved to. He was definitely deserving of a move to the PL when he was with Coventry, was one of the best keepers in the Championships. I think he would be good enough to be No 1 for a mid to lower PL side.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

Wow, thats an awful lot of speculation in one post!

Its worth noting that just because Westwood has progressed from Championship to EPL and then sadly to Sunderland's bench doesn't mean he is better than Given who has been a premiership player consistently.

Has been. His standard is dropping as it shows, from city - villa and now QPR want him.

Westwood is an able replacement. Given is 36 now.

noodler

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Westwood was unlucky with the club he moved to. He was definitely deserving of a move to the PL when he was with Coventry, was one of the best keepers in the Championships. I think he would be good enough to be No 1 for a mid to lower PL side.

I really hope he is.

It would fill you with dread and be a major talking point before every qualifier over the next year or so if we are forced to play a goalkeeper who can't get regular club football.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

I really hope he is.

It would fill you with dread and be a major talking point before every qualifier over the next year or so if we are forced to play a goalkeeper who can't get regular club football.

....but it's ok for St Ledger sure who couldn't get into a team in the Championship

noodler

Samich wrote: »

....but it's ok for St Ledger sure who couldn't get into a team in the Championship

I think you are deliberately missing the point.

If we have to play Westwood then we will.

But if both are available then Given is clearly the superior goalkeeper.


Also, it would be a talking point in the media if Westwood was starting for Ireland without playing club football. It would be highlighted after every mistake he makes etc etc.

Thats just the way the media is.

Samich

noodler wrote: »

I think you are deliberately missing the point.

If we have to play Westwood then we will.

But if both are available then Given is clearly the superior goalkeeper.


Also, it would be a talking point in the media if Westwood was starting for Ireland without playing club football. It would be highlighted after every mistake he makes etc etc.

Thats just the way the media is.

You're refusing to answer why it's not a problem that Ireland play St Ledger while it wouldn't be ok to play Westwood.

Kiwi_knock

noodler wrote: »

I really hope he is.

It would fill you with dread and be a major talking point before every qualifier over the next year or so if we are forced to play a goalkeeper who can't get regular club football.

We had Given playing in goal when he could not get a game for Man City, so it is not exactly a precedent. And I think the media might be a bit kinder to Westwood as he would new blood, something that the media are craving in this Irish team.

Soups123

Samich wrote: »

noodler wrote: »

I think you are deliberately missing the point.

If we have to play Westwood then we will.

But if both are available then Given is clearly the superior goalkeeper.


Also, it would be a talking point in the media if Westwood was starting for Ireland without playing club football. It would be highlighted after every mistake he makes etc etc.

Thats just the way the media is.

You're refusing to answer why it's not a problem that Ireland play St Ledger while it wouldn't be ok to play Westwood.

Has he not said about 15 times Given > Westwood. Simples, regardless of club games played

St Ledger plays because he to is > 'insert any other option'

noodler

Soups123 wrote: »

Has he not said about 15 times Given > Westwood. Simples, regardless of club games played

St Ledger plays because he to is > 'insert any other option'

Yeah, I was making an isolated point to another non-Samich poster.

Given > Westwood is as plain as the nose on your face for me.

But the thread title is asking based on this tournament which is a bit bizarre.